@Cahir Yes, you can pick Linzi up at a later date. The first time is at the Ancient Tomb on the way to Oleg's Trading Post, the other is at the Old Sycamore location - both can be found very early in Chapter 1.
There are two more companions which make for excellent thieves:
A half-elf wizard/rogue which can be found inside a hidden worldmap location known as Technic League Encampment. It's easily missed since you first have to trigger a random overworld encounter. If you're lucky you can unlock that companion as soon as you started Chapter 1. You will also encounter another thief candidate in some goblin village as part of the plot. Should be around Chapter 3 or 4.
Of course, you could also create a custom mercenary at any Inn. Only costs you between 500g and 1000g, depending on your character level.
The game itself has a somewhat slow start at first. But then quickly becomes faster and faster paced the more chapters you have completed. Just be aware that the game plot takes over 2 ingame years to finish. So there is a lot of story buildup.
Thanks for reply. How much of a constrain is the main quest timer thing? Can I safely wander around the map in Chapter 1? Is there a point during game when I can freely roam the world without worrying to experience "Game over" screen? I admit this is my main concern - I don't like a game to rush me to do a main quest in any artificial way. And I definitely don't want to skip any content if possible, because I needed to meet a main quest deadline.
Chapter 1 gives you a time limit of 90 days. This is usually more than enough to explore the vast majority of early game locations and to clear your mission. Your Journal shows you how many days you have left. I'd suggest investing in the skills Athletics and Lore: Nature, since they will help you to travel faster on the worldmap.
There are of course merits for finishing the first chapter's objective with 69-ish days to spare: mainly getting a magical Dueling Sword +2 (an exotic weapon) for lawful characters and a couple of weeks of extra time before the second chapter's timer starts moving. So it's up to you what you'd like to do.
Worth mentioning is that each chapter has either one objective, or a choice for you to make within a fixed time span. The world will react to whatever choice you make during such times, making it impossible to clear all content within one single Playthrough.
What @Kamigoroshi says^. I'd also emphasize that you always get quite a bit of "spare" time between the main quest parts of each chapter. So a relatively good approach may be to go through and finish the main (timed) quest as quickly as possible, then use the often weeks of downtime you get before the next chapter main quest starts to indulge your wonderlust. This is especially also a good time to take care of your companion and artisan quests.
My first run, I wasn't sure where to go at one point and wound up going all around the map a couple of times and still managed to finish with 14 days left on the clock. So even screwing up very badly, you should have ample time to complete the first chapter.
It's if you finish the first chapter in 30 days that you get the +2 dueling sword. It's honestly not a big deal even if you're playing a character whose chosen weapon is dueling swords. You can buy a dueling sword at the beginning of chapter 2, while only +1, does an extra d6 of damage (cold IIRC).
You can also wind up with more than just weeks of downtime. There are some spots where it's almost a year in between main quest events. Ample time to explore, side quest and build your kingdom up.
You can also wind up with more than just weeks of downtime. There are some spots where it's almost a year in between main quest events. Ample time to explore, side quest and build your kingdom up.
I did find that sometimes this pacing wasnt great. You'd spend a loooooot of time between some quests, without much left to explore or do aside from kingdom management (the majority of which, outside of events for each minister, can repeat itself).
I really did love a lot of things about the game, but there were always a number of missteps in execution and in concept that stopped the game from being great (to me).
I do still want to revisit it. Eventually. The first playthrough was so draining that I dont know when that'll be, though. With WoR coming out eventually... I'm not sure it'll happen for a LONG time.
You can also wind up with more than just weeks of downtime. There are some spots where it's almost a year in between main quest events. Ample time to explore, side quest and build your kingdom up.
I did find that sometimes this pacing wasnt great. You'd spend a loooooot of time between some quests, without much left to explore or do aside from kingdom management (the majority of which, outside of events for each minister, can repeat itself).
I really did love a lot of things about the game, but there were always a number of missteps in execution and in concept that stopped the game from being great (to me).
I do still want to revisit it. Eventually. The first playthrough was so draining that I dont know when that'll be, though. With WoR coming out eventually... I'm not sure it'll happen for a LONG time.
Most of the breaks I was fine with, even the extremely long one between chapters 5 and 6 (depending on how fast you finish the events of chapter 5). The last break, between 6 and 7 was excessive, though, since you wind up out of stuff to do.
You can also wind up with more than just weeks of downtime. There are some spots where it's almost a year in between main quest events. Ample time to explore, side quest and build your kingdom up.
I did find that sometimes this pacing wasnt great. You'd spend a loooooot of time between some quests, without much left to explore or do aside from kingdom management (the majority of which, outside of events for each minister, can repeat itself).
I really did love a lot of things about the game, but there were always a number of missteps in execution and in concept that stopped the game from being great (to me).
I do still want to revisit it. Eventually. The first playthrough was so draining that I dont know when that'll be, though. With WoR coming out eventually... I'm not sure it'll happen for a LONG time.
Most of the breaks I was fine with, even the extremely long one between chapters 5 and 6 (depending on how fast you finish the events of chapter 5). The last break, between 6 and 7 was excessive, though, since you wind up out of stuff to do.
Yeah. I think those were the ones I had issues with too. Mostly because in doing the other chapter quests, you got to explore most of the stuff on the map if you wanted to. So it wasnt like there was a ton extra you could do.
Ok, I've picked up my first playthrough where I left it couple of weeks ago (really it's just a beginning, not far after prologue). I'm severely lacking a thief in my part (can't even pick locks and missing the content of all locked chests). I heard there is a way to recruit Linzi, even if she chose Tartuccio's company during the prologue. Where exactly do I need to go to get her? I would gladly trade dwarf cleric for her since I already have Tristan (who seems better suited for a job than a dwarf guy).
Also is there any other NPC with a decent Trickery skill, or Linzi is my best bet?
I'm trying to enjoy PKM, but so far the plot is really not that engaging. I'm more of a role player and complex mechanics is not necessarily my thing, but at least it's properly described, in a way that I understand (unlike first PoE for example). Maybe it would help if I know Pathfinder (which I don't), because at the moment there are so many names and places that game introduced to me, that it's a bit overwhelming. And I don't even get to the kingdom management stuff yet. But maybe it gets better, we'll see. I'm not crossing out the game just yet.
Nothing is preventing you from giving trickery to another character. I gave the trickery skill to Jaethal as a third option if Linzi and Octavia fail.
If you haven't recruited Octavia yet, just keep following the main story line and you will run into her.
You can also wind up with more than just weeks of downtime. There are some spots where it's almost a year in between main quest events. Ample time to explore, side quest and build your kingdom up.
I did find that sometimes this pacing wasnt great. You'd spend a loooooot of time between some quests, without much left to explore or do aside from kingdom management (the majority of which, outside of events for each minister, can repeat itself).
I really did love a lot of things about the game, but there were always a number of missteps in execution and in concept that stopped the game from being great (to me).
I do still want to revisit it. Eventually. The first playthrough was so draining that I dont know when that'll be, though. With WoR coming out eventually... I'm not sure it'll happen for a LONG time.
Agree with this. Still haven't finished my first playthrough. I played up to like chapter two, then took a long break. Then played the troll invasion etc and finished the chapter where your capital is 'infected' and you find and stop the source then took my next break (which is still ongoing). The pacing is just tough to handle for me. I really like the game play mechanics (rules/levels/fights etc), but there's just such a huge inertia inside me stopping me from wanting to actually play the game.
You can also wind up with more than just weeks of downtime. There are some spots where it's almost a year in between main quest events. Ample time to explore, side quest and build your kingdom up.
I did find that sometimes this pacing wasnt great. You'd spend a loooooot of time between some quests, without much left to explore or do aside from kingdom management (the majority of which, outside of events for each minister, can repeat itself).
I really did love a lot of things about the game, but there were always a number of missteps in execution and in concept that stopped the game from being great (to me).
I do still want to revisit it. Eventually. The first playthrough was so draining that I dont know when that'll be, though. With WoR coming out eventually... I'm not sure it'll happen for a LONG time.
Agree with this. Still haven't finished my first playthrough. I played up to like chapter two, then took a long break. Then played the troll invasion etc and finished the chapter where your capital is 'infected' and you find and stop the source then took my next break (which is still ongoing). The pacing is just tough to handle for me. I really like the game play mechanics (rules/levels/fights etc), but there's just such a huge inertia inside me stopping me from wanting to actually play the game.
Ya, I was thinking about this the other day. The story itself is very disjointed and besides “curses” nothing ties them all together. They all feel like a bunch of random side quests stitched together to make a main story.
Their next game seems more focused plot wise, so hopefully they’ve learnt from it.
Well, fun fact, the original PnP adventure is apparently also very disjointed and has nothing to do with each other, in fact, the game introduces
Nyrissia
WAYYYY EARLIER than the books do to help everything feel a bit more connected. Like it all makes sense near the end as far as why things are happening.
Well, for many people (myself included) the idea of some huge main story arc dominating the game with the very survival of the universe resting on the protagonist's shoulders is what they don't want in an RPG (because it's been done to death). So I find the way in which things are laid out in P:Km - no coherent core story telling you what's going on and what your role in all of it is - to be quite refreshing.
Well, for many people (myself included) the idea of some huge main story arc dominating the game with the very survival of the universe resting on the protagonist's shoulders is what they don't want in an RPG (because it's been done to death). So I find the way in which things are laid out in P:Km - no coherent core story telling you what's going on and what your role in all of it is - to be quite refreshing.
I gotta disagree with it having no coherent core story. Sure they don't explain a lot what's going on for quite awhile, but discovering what's really happening is a huge amount of the game and made it very interesting to me. It's coherent, but doesn't make sense until you get closer to the end and only get bits and pieces up till then.
I also enjoyed the changes in pace. In between doing the main story stuff I build my kingdom, explore and do side quests. This is a bit jarring to people who are used to the standard method of playing an RPG where you finish all your side quests and then deal with the main plot storyline. I think this expectation is what throws a lot of people off, but I found it extremely refreshing and it lends a more real sense of urgency to events. I don't generally enjoy overly long dungeon crawls, either, and felt like most of them were perfectly sized in the game. The last one can be a bit of a drag, but it is the last one. Obviously this excludes the Tenebruous Depths.
Well, for many people (myself included) the idea of some huge main story arc dominating the game with the very survival of the universe resting on the protagonist's shoulders is what they don't want in an RPG (because it's been done to death). So I find the way in which things are laid out in P:Km - no coherent core story telling you what's going on and what your role in all of it is - to be quite refreshing.
I agree that it was a refreshing way to tell a story, it’s just the story wasn’t well written from the beginning that it’s the weakest part of the game IMO.
And you’re still the “chosen” one from the tutorial onward in PK.
You can roll a character with a 5 CHR that worships the undead and you’re still considered the best candidate to build a nation.
Dragon Age II got the story right in how to take a whole lot of disconnected stories and tie them into a coherent time line where the protagonist was never truly the centre of attention. Hawke just brought down those that were the centre. Yes some of the time jumps was annoying in that game, and a lot of the writing felt tacked (romances) but overall the story still felt fluid and having this no name refugee turn into the cities champion.
I don't really think DA2 did any better a job with the plot holes that keep you at the center of the story than Kingmaker. Like why would the guard captain (I can't remember her name) continue to hang out with a crazy murdering thief or blood mage? Actually why would they even allow you in the city throwing around blood magic? The rival-mance thing was also crazy awkward, but you did mention those were badly done.
I don't really think DA2 did any better a job with the plot holes that keep you at the center of the story than Kingmaker. Like why would the guard captain (I can't remember her name) continue to hang out with a crazy murdering thief or blood mage? Actually why would they even allow you in the city throwing around blood magic? The rival-mance thing was also crazy awkward, but you did mention those were badly done.
Ya the plot hole with being a mage was horrible and why I rarely played one in DA2. It would have been cool if it had a completely different branch where you had to join the mage tower like your sister did and then witness first hand the abuse that leads to the tower rebelling. However, that’s take more resources and one thing about DA2, they cut the resources to bare minimum.
Well, for many people (myself included) the idea of some huge main story arc dominating the game with the very survival of the universe resting on the protagonist's shoulders is what they don't want in an RPG (because it's been done to death). So I find the way in which things are laid out in P:Km - no coherent core story telling you what's going on and what your role in all of it is - to be quite refreshing.
I half agree. I am utterly sick of the world ending stakes pushed onto the player in 90% of RPGs. It's tired. It's trite. It needs to stop.
That said, I dislike the lack of coherent story telling. I dont need to know everything, but I do want it to be coherent, both in a narrative sense and in the sense that it feels cohesive when I play it.
Well, for many people (myself included) the idea of some huge main story arc dominating the game with the very survival of the universe resting on the protagonist's shoulders is what they don't want in an RPG (because it's been done to death). So I find the way in which things are laid out in P:Km - no coherent core story telling you what's going on and what your role in all of it is - to be quite refreshing.
I gotta disagree with it having no coherent core story. Sure they don't explain a lot what's going on for quite awhile, but discovering what's really happening is a huge amount of the game and made it very interesting to me. It's coherent, but doesn't make sense until you get closer to the end and only get bits and pieces up till then.
I also enjoyed the changes in pace. In between doing the main story stuff I build my kingdom, explore and do side quests. This is a bit jarring to people who are used to the standard method of playing an RPG where you finish all your side quests and then deal with the main plot storyline. I think this expectation is what throws a lot of people off, but I found it extremely refreshing and it lends a more real sense of urgency to events. I don't generally enjoy overly long dungeon crawls, either, and felt like most of them were perfectly sized in the game. The last one can be a bit of a drag, but it is the last one. Obviously this excludes the Tenebruous Depths.
Actually I think we are in agreement. There is a core story. And as a side note, for me, that story is a good, interesting story. It's just that you don't get that story thrown in your face in the first/early part of the game but instead come to realize it slowly as the game progresses. So you, me, and a few others as well are all saying the same thing. But I am happy to accept that I could maybe word it better.
Well, for many people (myself included) the idea of some huge main story arc dominating the game with the very survival of the universe resting on the protagonist's shoulders is what they don't want in an RPG (because it's been done to death). So I find the way in which things are laid out in P:Km - no coherent core story telling you what's going on and what your role in all of it is - to be quite refreshing.
I gotta disagree with it having no coherent core story. Sure they don't explain a lot what's going on for quite awhile, but discovering what's really happening is a huge amount of the game and made it very interesting to me. It's coherent, but doesn't make sense until you get closer to the end and only get bits and pieces up till then.
I also enjoyed the changes in pace. In between doing the main story stuff I build my kingdom, explore and do side quests. This is a bit jarring to people who are used to the standard method of playing an RPG where you finish all your side quests and then deal with the main plot storyline. I think this expectation is what throws a lot of people off, but I found it extremely refreshing and it lends a more real sense of urgency to events. I don't generally enjoy overly long dungeon crawls, either, and felt like most of them were perfectly sized in the game. The last one can be a bit of a drag, but it is the last one. Obviously this excludes the Tenebruous Depths.
Actually I think we are in agreement. There is a core story. And as a side note, for me, that story is a good, interesting story. It's just that you don't get that story thrown in your face in the first/early part of the game but instead come to realize it slowly as the game progresses. So you, me, and a few others as well are all saying the same thing. But I am happy to accept that I could maybe word it better.
Ya, I was mainly put off by you saying it had no coherent core story. It's there, just not revealed until late in the game. I do really enjoy games where your first run you're trying to figure out what the hell is actually going on here. Disco Elysium was another great game for that.
..... the extreme and stupidly exaggerated focus on YOU to do every single menial task is so cliché that I just can't commit to it.
Now, if there had been a more realistic version I think I could have liked it. Less focus on charname, the ability to summon folk to court when I want it. Charname is the leader after all, yet the leader of the realm is the one who have to keep running back home to talk to ppl when they are coming. ....
home sick from work, so booted up my old playthrough. Quite quickly a found a perfect example why PKM doesn't fully work with charname as a leader. I'll keep it spoiler free.
A artisan in one of your villages summons you, the leader of the entire kingdom, to come to him. There he informs you that "too many guards" will listen in if you would have spoken in the capital, you know in your throne room for example where you as the fricking king could have sent out the guards if you wanted, and that's why its good you came to him. He also informs you about how another merchant might be into illegal trade and hunting and that you as the king of the entire kingdom should hunt down these poachers and gather evidence. With this evidence the guards should take his claims seriously!
.. or you know, if you as the fricking king takes this seriously then perhaps YOUR guards would do the same if you told them so? It's so stupied the whole premise of this quest hehe.. I don't mind the quest per se, it's a very standard type of RPG quest after all, but it's a pretty good example on why I feel so detached to the role as leader in PKM because in reality you don't really get to lead jack shit. Everything you do is reactionary and it's always on the input and per the demands of someone else, most often the ones "beneath" you in the hierarchy and not seldom random plebs. Sure, you can choose to not do it, but seriously, in a RPG where exp is only awarded from solving quests, that's not really a realistic option for the charname.
Anyways, end rant Still enjoying the game, and especially the events where ppl come to your throne room and you get to decide the outcomes, but also still waiting for a game where/if I play as a leader I will actually get the change to lead.
Edit: It was a long time since I last played the game, it should say "baron" and not "king" above.
Well, fun fact, the original PnP adventure is apparently also very disjointed and has nothing to do with each other, in fact, the game introduces
Nyrissia
WAYYYY EARLIER than the books do to help everything feel a bit more connected. Like it all makes sense near the end as far as why things are happening.
The game improved the plot consistency of the PF:Kingmaker campaign A LOT. It was a very good campaign, but it focuses more into quests, kingdom development and adventures and dungeons for the party.
In the OC
Nyrissa is a purely evil character from the start, in fact, the first time you met her she is about to slay a unicorn for fun and profit and she does not appear in the first chapter anymore
It was one of the best campaigns of the first PF TTRPG, but if you think that PF:K has plot holes... I have to give the writers of the videogame a lot of credit because they fleshed out a lot of secondary plots and characters and solved some issues with the continuity of the story between modules in the Orignal campaign.
I have high hopes with what they are going to do with Wrath of the righteous.
Dragon Age II got the story right in how to take a whole lot of disconnected stories and tie them into a coherent time line where the protagonist was never truly the centre of attention. Hawke just brought down those that were the centre. Yes some of the time jumps was annoying in that game, and a lot of the writing felt tacked (romances) but overall the story still felt fluid and having this no name refugee turn into the cities champion.
Me and my friends have the certainty that the main character of the DA2 game is Varric, not Hawke XDD You are there only to help him follow the path that will lead him to the Inquisition.
DA2 is a great example of a campaign where the player have no agency, where the GM just railroads the hell out of everything anyway and the player character might as well just not be there.
DA2 is a great example of a campaign where the player have no agency, where the GM just railroads the hell out of everything anyway and the player character might as well just not be there.
It's called "plot". Games without it called "sandbox" - and indeed, there you can go anywhere and do anything (within limits of game-mechanic), the question is "what for"?
In DA2 (and other games with plot) you sure go through specific checkpoints. But calling the game where you can kill practically anyone, join any of the fighting faction and get several endings "lacking of player agency" is a strong exaggeration.
Nah dude, plot does not equal "make the player character redundant". Hawke is just a bystander in their own game, a passive ghost of a person who exist only to watch the GM's (the developers') story unfold but who never takes an active part in it themself. One could completely remove Hawke from the plot and nearly the entire story would remain the same. Beyond killing things they are a superfluous entity.
The Call of the Wild mod has added another new base class to Kingmaker: The Investigator
Nothing major, given that it's a hybrid class between Rogue and Alchemist. But it could nevertheless be a nice reason to replay the game.
"I swore I would scratch and crawl my way back into the world of the living... and I have done it!"
So, just as I had promised, I gave the game another try.
Currently, I have 22 hours in, just finished the Old Sycamore. Playing as a priest, have the party of all 5 first companions from the prologue. The game is actually fun. I'm glad it exists and I'm glad we are getting another franchise on top of PoE for such games.
Of course, I still share my initial impression that combat seems too hard to understand. I think I finally figured why I think so: in this game, unlike BG or PoE, character actions are not shown on their portraits, which is very bad. You have to look at the battlefield to understand what is going on, you can't just look at the portrait and see. Also, in BG, when your character is casting a spell, the animation is very distinct and you can't mix it with anything else - a shining light in front of the character + the incantation sound.
Here, it's impossible to easily figure out if your character is still casting a spell, not yet started it, or already casted - for that you need to look at the battlefield, waiting for the text to appear, or look at the combat log. And when you have a party of 6, and an enemy horde of 6-8 creatures, it becomes messy.
I think in Dragon Age games it was even more visible regarding your character's current actions.
What can I criticize more? Again, the story is not that interesting, and companions are kinda dull. The issue with them is that they don't talk much, and in order to talk to them, you have to come back to the trading post - which kinda contradicts to the fact you have 90 days to complete the quest. Yes, I'm paranoid about that timer - but it's not only the actual timer which is the problem for me. 22 hours in, and I still don't know much about these companions. Of course, I read a few dialogues with them, but that is not enough at all (and those 2-liners during camps are not enough at all).
Eder, Aloth, Pallegina from PoE are my favorite characters there. And Durance is different from others. In P:K, you just get general high-fantasy NPCs who barely talk. Yes, in BG1 companions didn't speak. In BG2, you didn't have a DA-style camp. But I guess I expect more interaction from such games these days. Not interacting with characters makes it impossible to start thinking about them as if they were real.
Also - what's up with that girl squadron? My main char is female, and you get 4 women characters and only 1 Harrim (who is old)? And that (jerk) Tartuccio? And here I end up with 5 girls and an old dwarf in the group.
And the story. Well, I can't even say what the story here is, after 22 hours. I guess I prefer more serious stories, like when you come to the first village in PoE you see all these people hanged, you hear about the local lord murdering women. You enter his castle and see how he murdered his own wife. You see people wondering about souls, and then in Defiance Bay you see all those horrors in Sanitarium and with old Engwithan machines. Or you learn about the story of Aelys Harond.
But maybe that light-hearted tone of the P:K so far, of its companions is not bad. It reminds about older games. And one can say that BG1 was full of light-hearted tones (except, you know, seeing how your foster father was killed 1 hour in the game).
I also hear about "simplification" or "dumbing" down in modern games, and how P:K (and PoE) is so old school. Well, one thing that is bothering me here is that why PoE and P:K dropped ammunition. In BG, it makes a hell of a difference whether your archer is using arrows of dispelling, or fireballs, or poisoning. Here you just have a base bow or a crossbow and don't have to micromanage its ammo. I really think that BG gives more tactics options just because of that.
Or take my favourite F/T class from BG. Unfortunately, the magic of backstabs, when you can gulp multiple potions of invisibility, run in and out of fights, and backstab for fun, or when you can decide the battle before it started by one-shotting the enemy mage, is gone, both in PoE and P:K. I also liked rogues in DA and how they were deadly.
Why did I say the game is fun if I'm full of that criticism? I'm playing it because it's fun to explore the world. It's fun to travel on the world map. It's fun to see nice woods and interesting caves. It's fun to find those items that need repairing. It's fun to find those first +1 weapons and armor. It's fun to choose a deity for your cleric and see how your cleric and Harrim are very different even while they share 1 similar class. I'm also aware than in 22 hours I didn't even see 1/10 of the game. I like skill checks, both in dialogues and while exploring the wild.
I'm very glad the game is using non-DnD rules as it provides a breath of fresh air: its creatures, areas are new for me.
So, yeah, good job, and I'm interested in how P:WotR will improve and build on this basis. I hope it succeeds and in 5 years we'll have a great series.
Comments
Thanks for reply. How much of a constrain is the main quest timer thing? Can I safely wander around the map in Chapter 1? Is there a point during game when I can freely roam the world without worrying to experience "Game over" screen? I admit this is my main concern - I don't like a game to rush me to do a main quest in any artificial way. And I definitely don't want to skip any content if possible, because I needed to meet a main quest deadline.
There are of course merits for finishing the first chapter's objective with 69-ish days to spare: mainly getting a magical Dueling Sword +2 (an exotic weapon) for lawful characters and a couple of weeks of extra time before the second chapter's timer starts moving. So it's up to you what you'd like to do.
Worth mentioning is that each chapter has either one objective, or a choice for you to make within a fixed time span. The world will react to whatever choice you make during such times, making it impossible to clear all content within one single Playthrough.
It's if you finish the first chapter in 30 days that you get the +2 dueling sword. It's honestly not a big deal even if you're playing a character whose chosen weapon is dueling swords. You can buy a dueling sword at the beginning of chapter 2, while only +1, does an extra d6 of damage (cold IIRC).
You can also wind up with more than just weeks of downtime. There are some spots where it's almost a year in between main quest events. Ample time to explore, side quest and build your kingdom up.
I did find that sometimes this pacing wasnt great. You'd spend a loooooot of time between some quests, without much left to explore or do aside from kingdom management (the majority of which, outside of events for each minister, can repeat itself).
I really did love a lot of things about the game, but there were always a number of missteps in execution and in concept that stopped the game from being great (to me).
I do still want to revisit it. Eventually. The first playthrough was so draining that I dont know when that'll be, though. With WoR coming out eventually... I'm not sure it'll happen for a LONG time.
Most of the breaks I was fine with, even the extremely long one between chapters 5 and 6 (depending on how fast you finish the events of chapter 5). The last break, between 6 and 7 was excessive, though, since you wind up out of stuff to do.
Yeah. I think those were the ones I had issues with too. Mostly because in doing the other chapter quests, you got to explore most of the stuff on the map if you wanted to. So it wasnt like there was a ton extra you could do.
Nothing is preventing you from giving trickery to another character. I gave the trickery skill to Jaethal as a third option if Linzi and Octavia fail.
If you haven't recruited Octavia yet, just keep following the main story line and you will run into her.
Agree with this. Still haven't finished my first playthrough. I played up to like chapter two, then took a long break. Then played the troll invasion etc and finished the chapter where your capital is 'infected' and you find and stop the source then took my next break (which is still ongoing). The pacing is just tough to handle for me. I really like the game play mechanics (rules/levels/fights etc), but there's just such a huge inertia inside me stopping me from wanting to actually play the game.
Ya, I was thinking about this the other day. The story itself is very disjointed and besides “curses” nothing ties them all together. They all feel like a bunch of random side quests stitched together to make a main story.
Their next game seems more focused plot wise, so hopefully they’ve learnt from it.
I gotta disagree with it having no coherent core story. Sure they don't explain a lot what's going on for quite awhile, but discovering what's really happening is a huge amount of the game and made it very interesting to me. It's coherent, but doesn't make sense until you get closer to the end and only get bits and pieces up till then.
I also enjoyed the changes in pace. In between doing the main story stuff I build my kingdom, explore and do side quests. This is a bit jarring to people who are used to the standard method of playing an RPG where you finish all your side quests and then deal with the main plot storyline. I think this expectation is what throws a lot of people off, but I found it extremely refreshing and it lends a more real sense of urgency to events. I don't generally enjoy overly long dungeon crawls, either, and felt like most of them were perfectly sized in the game. The last one can be a bit of a drag, but it is the last one. Obviously this excludes the Tenebruous Depths.
I agree that it was a refreshing way to tell a story, it’s just the story wasn’t well written from the beginning that it’s the weakest part of the game IMO.
And you’re still the “chosen” one from the tutorial onward in PK.
You can roll a character with a 5 CHR that worships the undead and you’re still considered the best candidate to build a nation.
Dragon Age II got the story right in how to take a whole lot of disconnected stories and tie them into a coherent time line where the protagonist was never truly the centre of attention. Hawke just brought down those that were the centre. Yes some of the time jumps was annoying in that game, and a lot of the writing felt tacked (romances) but overall the story still felt fluid and having this no name refugee turn into the cities champion.
Ya the plot hole with being a mage was horrible and why I rarely played one in DA2. It would have been cool if it had a completely different branch where you had to join the mage tower like your sister did and then witness first hand the abuse that leads to the tower rebelling. However, that’s take more resources and one thing about DA2, they cut the resources to bare minimum.
I half agree. I am utterly sick of the world ending stakes pushed onto the player in 90% of RPGs. It's tired. It's trite. It needs to stop.
That said, I dislike the lack of coherent story telling. I dont need to know everything, but I do want it to be coherent, both in a narrative sense and in the sense that it feels cohesive when I play it.
Ya, I was mainly put off by you saying it had no coherent core story. It's there, just not revealed until late in the game. I do really enjoy games where your first run you're trying to figure out what the hell is actually going on here. Disco Elysium was another great game for that.
home sick from work, so booted up my old playthrough. Quite quickly a found a perfect example why PKM doesn't fully work with charname as a leader. I'll keep it spoiler free.
A artisan in one of your villages summons you, the leader of the entire kingdom, to come to him. There he informs you that "too many guards" will listen in if you would have spoken in the capital, you know in your throne room for example where you as the fricking king could have sent out the guards if you wanted, and that's why its good you came to him. He also informs you about how another merchant might be into illegal trade and hunting and that you as the king of the entire kingdom should hunt down these poachers and gather evidence. With this evidence the guards should take his claims seriously!
.. or you know, if you as the fricking king takes this seriously then perhaps YOUR guards would do the same if you told them so?
Anyways, end rant
Edit: It was a long time since I last played the game, it should say "baron" and not "king" above.
The game improved the plot consistency of the PF:Kingmaker campaign A LOT. It was a very good campaign, but it focuses more into quests, kingdom development and adventures and dungeons for the party.
In the OC
I have high hopes with what they are going to do with Wrath of the righteous.
Me and my friends have the certainty that the main character of the DA2 game is Varric, not Hawke XDD You are there only to help him follow the path that will lead him to the Inquisition.
It's called "plot". Games without it called "sandbox" - and indeed, there you can go anywhere and do anything (within limits of game-mechanic), the question is "what for"?
In DA2 (and other games with plot) you sure go through specific checkpoints. But calling the game where you can kill practically anyone, join any of the fighting faction and get several endings "lacking of player agency" is a strong exaggeration.
Nothing major, given that it's a hybrid class between Rogue and Alchemist. But it could nevertheless be a nice reason to replay the game.
So, just as I had promised, I gave the game another try.
Currently, I have 22 hours in, just finished the Old Sycamore. Playing as a priest, have the party of all 5 first companions from the prologue. The game is actually fun. I'm glad it exists and I'm glad we are getting another franchise on top of PoE for such games.
Of course, I still share my initial impression that combat seems too hard to understand. I think I finally figured why I think so: in this game, unlike BG or PoE, character actions are not shown on their portraits, which is very bad. You have to look at the battlefield to understand what is going on, you can't just look at the portrait and see. Also, in BG, when your character is casting a spell, the animation is very distinct and you can't mix it with anything else - a shining light in front of the character + the incantation sound.
Here, it's impossible to easily figure out if your character is still casting a spell, not yet started it, or already casted - for that you need to look at the battlefield, waiting for the text to appear, or look at the combat log. And when you have a party of 6, and an enemy horde of 6-8 creatures, it becomes messy.
I think in Dragon Age games it was even more visible regarding your character's current actions.
What can I criticize more? Again, the story is not that interesting, and companions are kinda dull. The issue with them is that they don't talk much, and in order to talk to them, you have to come back to the trading post - which kinda contradicts to the fact you have 90 days to complete the quest. Yes, I'm paranoid about that timer - but it's not only the actual timer which is the problem for me. 22 hours in, and I still don't know much about these companions. Of course, I read a few dialogues with them, but that is not enough at all (and those 2-liners during camps are not enough at all).
Eder, Aloth, Pallegina from PoE are my favorite characters there. And Durance is different from others. In P:K, you just get general high-fantasy NPCs who barely talk. Yes, in BG1 companions didn't speak. In BG2, you didn't have a DA-style camp. But I guess I expect more interaction from such games these days. Not interacting with characters makes it impossible to start thinking about them as if they were real.
Also - what's up with that girl squadron? My main char is female, and you get 4 women characters and only 1 Harrim (who is old)? And that (jerk) Tartuccio? And here I end up with 5 girls and an old dwarf in the group.
And the story. Well, I can't even say what the story here is, after 22 hours. I guess I prefer more serious stories, like when you come to the first village in PoE you see all these people hanged, you hear about the local lord murdering women. You enter his castle and see how he murdered his own wife. You see people wondering about souls, and then in Defiance Bay you see all those horrors in Sanitarium and with old Engwithan machines. Or you learn about the story of Aelys Harond.
But maybe that light-hearted tone of the P:K so far, of its companions is not bad. It reminds about older games. And one can say that BG1 was full of light-hearted tones (except, you know, seeing how your foster father was killed 1 hour in the game).
I also hear about "simplification" or "dumbing" down in modern games, and how P:K (and PoE) is so old school. Well, one thing that is bothering me here is that why PoE and P:K dropped ammunition. In BG, it makes a hell of a difference whether your archer is using arrows of dispelling, or fireballs, or poisoning. Here you just have a base bow or a crossbow and don't have to micromanage its ammo. I really think that BG gives more tactics options just because of that.
Or take my favourite F/T class from BG. Unfortunately, the magic of backstabs, when you can gulp multiple potions of invisibility, run in and out of fights, and backstab for fun, or when you can decide the battle before it started by one-shotting the enemy mage, is gone, both in PoE and P:K. I also liked rogues in DA and how they were deadly.
Why did I say the game is fun if I'm full of that criticism? I'm playing it because it's fun to explore the world. It's fun to travel on the world map. It's fun to see nice woods and interesting caves. It's fun to find those items that need repairing. It's fun to find those first +1 weapons and armor. It's fun to choose a deity for your cleric and see how your cleric and Harrim are very different even while they share 1 similar class. I'm also aware than in 22 hours I didn't even see 1/10 of the game. I like skill checks, both in dialogues and while exploring the wild.
I'm very glad the game is using non-DnD rules as it provides a breath of fresh air: its creatures, areas are new for me.
So, yeah, good job, and I'm interested in how P:WotR will improve and build on this basis. I hope it succeeds and in 5 years we'll have a great series.