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Pathfinder : Kingmaker

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  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Also - what's up with that girl squadron? My main char is female, and you get 4 women characters and only 1 Harrim (who is old)? And that (jerk) Tartuccio? And here I end up with 5 girls and an old dwarf in the group.
    Kingmaker has 12 companions: 6 females and 6 males. You should be able to recruite a Cleric dude pretty soon, judging from your progress. And there will also be a random overworld encounter that will ultimately net you a male Half-Orc Magus (as well as a female Half-Elf Wizard/Thief) in Chapter 1. The remaining NPC's will appear in later parts of the game. And Tartuccio is not one of them. That said, you may find a certain male Gnome Alchemist to be of interest (early chapter 2).

    Though... Kingmaker having a "light-hearted tone" isn't exactly how I would put it. Just wait as you follow the plot along. Remember that this game easily takes time to play through. Completing the Old Sycamore is pretty much like leaving Beregost, plot progression-wise.

    Also, release date of Wrath of the Righteous is 2021. They already worked on the game since 2019. So we won't have to wait for 5 years to get another great gem. :)
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    One other thing to be aware of in terms of roleplaying / NPC personalities. You are barely 1% into the game content so far (it's a big game). You only get one companion quest in the first chapter. It's really those quests where you learn more about your NPC personalities, and each NPC has 3 or 4 quests each. You get more companion quests from late Chapter 2 onwards, that's when you'll start to learn more about Valerie, Linzi etc. Even further into the game you have chapters where certain NPCs are heavily part of the story. I won't go into spoilers, but there is barbarian content (Amiri), Pitax (Linzi) and stuff like that.

    With regard to the "feedback" over what characters are doing. For some reason the options menu expands fully only once you have started a game. If you go into the options now, you can heavily customise what feedback you get and when you get it (e.g. when you pause, when you mouse-over, always on etc). Similarly you can customise the text feedback you get (I recommend turning off alignment stuff for example, so you can choose what you think your PC would say without being influenced by the alignment descriptions).
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    edited March 2020
    What I mean by 5 years is that judging by the first game it'll take 5 years (in my opinion) for them to grow to something really big and cool. I hope P:WotR will have big improvements but that still will mean they're on the right way, but not there yet.

    I definitely hope to meet other companions - but at the start of the game, that was how it was.

    Yes, I expanded all feedback, and enabled everything. The opinion I shared took that into account.
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    I think BG1 is the right comparison for a number of reasons. You have the freedom to explore like in BG1, the power level of characters in the early game is comparable to BG1, and the plot also develops in layers like BG1.

    For example, in BG1 you start off just trying to survive to the Friendly Arm Inn; then you have to investigate Nashkel; from there you get into the iron shortage plot; that leads you to the Iron Throne; which then leads to Sarevok; and you then learn about the legacy of Bhaal.

    PFK is similar; just start off by pacifying the Stolen Lands. That will then lead to founding your barony, and then as you start dealing with the challenges your barony faces, you will begin to uncover the underlying plot. It's Chapter 3 before you get the first real insight into what's really going on.

    You will soon realise the timer is generous. Keep an eye on it sure, but it really isn't restrictive in any way. The golden rule to follow through the game is that the main plot is critical, the sidequests are not. When something is "happening" (which will be obvious), then follow the plotline. Go to the areas you need to go to and make progress. You get months (sometimes years) of time in between the acts to go exploring and to improve your kingdom. The only way you'll ever fall foul of time is if you ignore the main plot continuously (by weeks and months) when events are happening; and like I say, that will be obvious and you'll start getting notifications in kingdom events that your barony will soon fall if you don't complete a certain quest.

    A couple of other things you mentioned: the girl power at the start is to balance the sausage-fest in PoE1 :p (Eder, Aloth, Durance and Kana before any girl appears). And with regard to ammo: you don't have regular ammo in this game but you do get specific elemental type ammo later in the game.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    For PoE it doesn't feel that way because you get Heodan and Calisca as 2 starting NPCs.

    Well, anyway, I'm not trying to convince anyone here, just shared my opinion after giving the game another try (and going blind) - even after I had been very discouraged after the 1st attempt.
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    Yes agreed, this isn't meant to be a defensive response. Your perceptions are your own and by definition they are correct. I am not trying to make you "like" a game if that is not your impression, in the same way that nobody can make me like something if that is not the impression I get! All we can do is offer a perspective which might help you contextualise what you are experiencing, and that is what we are discussing.

    In summary, I guess what I am saying to your points is:

    NPC interaction: what you've seen so far is limited because NPC quests come later in the game compared to where you currently are.

    Plot is not defined: is a deliberate design, you have to peel some more layers of the onion yet to see the bigger picture.

    Interface / feedback is unclear: agreed, all you can do is play around with the options to see what level of feedback works best for you.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    edited March 2020
    Does anyone know how Rebuke Death (priest ability) works? I'm trying it in combat when a companion is dead (their HPs are at 0; I have a setting enabled where companions raise after combat), and it says it can't be cast. I get a feeling it's either a bug or I don't understand how to use it.
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    edited March 2020
    That should be a touch ability that heals someone who is unconscious but not dead. How are you trying to use it? I would imagine you need to click on the ability and then click on the portrait of the unconscious character. Your caster should then cast it and walk up to the unconscious character to touch them.

    What happens when you try it? Do you have a screenshot maybe? Is the target dead rather than unconscious?

    (Btw it's not a particularly useful ability as you can still cast normal healing spells on unconscious characters as well, which likely heal more damage. Or just channel energy to heal AoE).
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    edited March 2020
    Rebuke Death as in the Healing Domain ability? It kinda works like the classy Lay On Hands, but with a twist: the character has to be living (so not Jaethal) and has to be in the dying condition (meaning neither disabled nor dead).

    Characters reaching 0 Hit Points are disabled. Dying character have -1 Hit Points or less. Said Hit Points will continue to drop until reaching an equal sum of their Constitution score (say, -16 for Amiri). At that point they are dead.

    Rebuke Death stabilizes the dying condition back to above +1 Hit Points. But it is pointless to when the characters are already dead.
  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 719
    I've been playing P:KM for the first time and I'm getting my ass handed to me on a silver platter.
    I'm loving the game. Not so much the plot per-se, I've only played about 30 or so hours so I'm kinda still in the beginning (seems to be a pretty big game heh), but the world itself is great. This feels pretty much like what I would expect an actual BG3 to be.

    I wanted to ask though, is this game freakin' hard or what? I adjusted my difficulty to be a little above normal, because I didn't like the whole "party only suffers 80% of damage" for example, and I feel like I'm getting killed every 4th fight or so, and abusing quick-save and quick-load lol.
    I certainly won't change it to be easier, just wanted to ask.
    Super fun game.
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    Dev6 wrote: »
    I've been playing P:KM for the first time and I'm getting my ass handed to me on a silver platter.
    I'm loving the game. Not so much the plot per-se, I've only played about 30 or so hours so I'm kinda still in the beginning (seems to be a pretty big game heh), but the world itself is great. This feels pretty much like what I would expect an actual BG3 to be.

    I wanted to ask though, is this game freakin' hard or what? I adjusted my difficulty to be a little above normal, because I didn't like the whole "party only suffers 80% of damage" for example, and I feel like I'm getting killed every 4th fight or so, and abusing quick-save and quick-load lol.
    I certainly won't change it to be easier, just wanted to ask.
    Super fun game.

    As always, difficulty depends on your proficiency and experience. Something that feels difficult now might be easy the third time you try it.

    Comparing to other games, I'd say it's about the same level as vanilla BG games (without SCS mods). Maybe harder than PoE1 though.
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    @JuliusBorisov when the game's paused if you hit tab it'll show everyone's actions above their heads. There's another option you can toggle on to get health meters above enemies when the game is paused and you hit tab. You also get a lot of banter between the companions when you camp that'll help flesh them out. You don't get the camp banter when you rest back at Oleg's.

    @Dev6 Ya the game's really hard when you're getting your bearings and figuring out what works and how to deal with certain situations, what spells work really well, how to use certain characters, etc. When you have a handle on it, it'll get easier. Do not underestimate spells like Grease and Hideous Laughter, they can completely shutdown enemies and make some really difficult early encounters a cake walk.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    Any strongly recommended mods for PF:KM? I think I might dip my toe back in and play some more. Been craving a good CRPG lately with the announcement of BG3.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    Call of the Wild, Favored Class Bonus, and Turn Based Mod are my recommendations but just go into the settings.json in call of the wild and turn of "edit companions" and "reduce skill points" using notepad.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Though... Kingmaker having a "light-hearted tone" isn't exactly how I would put it. Just wait as you follow the plot along.

    I also reacted to that comment at first, but after mulling over my response, no, I definitely feel Julius is correct about it. The first part of Kingmaker is light-hearted, it's very "let's go on an adventure and beat up bandits and monsters and...", very "call-to-adventurey". Even when the game gets more serious it doesn't necessarily stray away from that one undercurrent. It's light-hearted in the sense that a merry wanderer whistling as he walks his way to new places and new people is light-hearted. In a less romanticized view his life would be hard and full of worries, but the merry wanderer is content, happy to be on the road and full of joy and the thrill of discovery and the sun always shines as he walks on down the road.

    In fact, romantisation is a good wkrd for Kingmaker. If I were to define it better I would call it adventure-romantic.
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    edited March 2020
    Any strongly recommended mods for PF:KM? I think I might dip my toe back in and play some more. Been craving a good CRPG lately with the announcement of BG3.

    Unearthed Arcana and Call of the Wild for some new classes and spells etc. Not at all necessary since the game is shock full of cool classes and archetypes, but adds many true to PnP classes to choose from. I like Warpriest myself. Can't remember which mod add which, but just check nexusmods for the details.
    * EDIT:
    Unearthed arcana adds the craft magic devices I think? Can't remember, it was a long time ago I installed these. But the game can be pretty punishing on different weapon categories, if you pick the wrong one you are kinda screwed sometimes. Craft magic weapons and armor let you add enchantment levels etc to weapons in the game to any weapon you carry. It cost gold and is handled through the cheat console, so it break immersion. It is however a less-intrusive addition than cheating items directly from ie Bag of Tricks to your inventory and in my personal opinion, the way you (the Baron) can't even get your smiths to create the weapons you want is a bit odd. So I recommend this if you wanna go for star knives, reach-weapons, staff sling and a few other weapon categories that get no or very late love.

    I've used Bag of Tricks, Cheat Menu and Respecialization for trying out builds. The latter can also be used on companions if you want to change them.

    Don't remember it's name, but I installed a small mod that removed the annoying and super-slow animation towards the book in the beginning before you can start/load a game. HIGHLY recommended :D

    I also installed a mod to reduce fatigue on the campaign map just for convenience. You can choose yourself the percent increase, ie 200% or more etc. I think the rest mechanic is neat, but the umpfteenth time Octavia cries out she's tired, I just got a bit fed up by it, hehe :D

    Goblin as a race is pretty cool, though not really necessary. It also messes pretty significantly with the story at certain points of the game when you encounter other goblins, but it's fun to play around with this on a later playthrough, perhaps not the first.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Of note is that Eldritch Arcana is not compatible with Call of the Wild anymore. The Eldrith Arcana mod author has worked to make them somewhat compatible with each other, but basically only traits work.The Lost Grimoire is also interesting for Wizard players. Golem crafting especially. A Touch of Magic isn't bad either.

    Races Unleashed is another of my all-time favourites.
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    Interesting. I haven't updated neither mod since I first installed them and I think they work currently. Anyways, thanks for the heads-up, I'll read about it to see myself.
  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 719
    Has anyone been a victim of the Permanent Entangle Bug? Two of my characters are walking around like snails. I've tried every heal spell and scroll I could think of, mods, even tried messing around with the party.json file and I couldn't solve it.
    Bah, I'll just revert back to my previous save, will lose about 3h of gameplay but it's not the end of the world.
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    Nope, never seen that one @dev6. I think you probably already thought about this, but it's not their encumbrance level perhaps? Meaning the weight of their equipment slowing them down.
  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 719
    @Skatan I wish it was, but no. I even removed all their equipment as a test and the problem persists. Thanks for the help tho! :)
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    edited March 2020
    So, after 45 hours in, my opinion on the game, unfortunately, is gradually going down.

    - Valerie vs Fredero Sinnet - come on. I'm a bit surprised nobody made a 20-minute video where 2 tanks miss against each other. This is the silliest thing I could imagine. And the dullest. This one fight can make me feel bad about the game's combat.

    - After advancing to Chapter 2, everything quest-wise became even more hectic than before. I really am not sure what I should do in order to advance further in the game. There are 6+ quests involving trolls, dozens for secondary quests, with really NO impetus for me as the player to do them. And when I arrive at locations with monsters who are much higher in level, I get wiped in seconds.

    - The kingdom management stuff. I don't hate it, and I don't mind playing it even while it's an RPG, but it feels uninspired and a bit Tamagotchi-like. I have to go back and forth, returning to my fortress, constantly travelling across the land which makes my party constantly rest.

    - These quests where you have to save someone. AI is dumb. Kressle against the owlbear - I mean, I cleared the camp stealthy, and I HAD NO IDEA I had to kill this beast as well - it was behind the gates. And then I defeat Stag Lord in ~3 mins, and spend 40 minutes trying to save Kressle who dumbly goes against the owlbear. Not even asking who opened the gate, as all the guards were killed.

    Or that troll guy. Ugh.

    - I am actually now angrier about companions the game offers. So it offers you only 2 mages? For real? And one of them has restricted schools I didn't choose, and her main school is nothing like what Xzar or Dynaheir have in BG1. And another is a sorcerer-like. So this is what the game offers for players who don't have custom mages in their party for the first playthrough? Not even a generalist mage? How on earth am I supposed to study all spells in this case? This doesn't make any sense. And at least Octavia is good (alighment-wise), what if I had an evil party? BG1 gave plenty of spellcasters, even BG2 had a few. And never we had that problem there. Not even talking about PoE where Aloth suits absolutely every party.

    - The characters I met besides the first 5, the new cleric, and this wizard couple are rather meh. The game is not explaining at all how to use the Kineticist, so imagine the bad time I had with my supporting cleric and the tiefling DLC character during her quest. Ugh.

    I'm really sorry that it feels that way.
    Post edited by JuliusBorisov on
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    edited March 2020
    Oh, now the Act 2 Nymph Solo visit. So, I have the main character as a supporting cleric. She doesn't have points in Athletics or Stealth. She's a support caster. Yes, the journal was quite clear about the ambush: I took potions of invisibility. But they put an owlbear there which sees through invisibility... How is that design decision to you, folks? You literally tell the player to take the potions and then put and anti-stealth detector there, leaving another route for characters with high Athletics? Maybe characters with Athletics can already kill those beasts in a fight? How on earth that Athletics check will help non-warriors?

    This encounter requires metagame, and it's a really, really bad decision. I don't even know how to beat it, actually. I'm level a 7 priest. And this is one of the main quests of the game, which I can't do because of the design decision.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    Some points are interesting. I agree that the game should have MORE arcane casters companions. There are only hybrids arcane casters. The lack of a druid is another problem. But you can create your custom mercenaries if you din't liked the companion

    As for the kingdom management, you can build teleport circles to travel fast from one city to another
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    As for the kingdom management, you can build teleport circles to travel fast from one city to another

    I have only one fortress at the moment.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Oh, now the Act 2 Nymph Solo visit. So, I have the main character as a supporting cleric. She doesn't have points in Athletics or Stealth. She's a support caster. Yes, the journal was quite clear about the ambush: I took potions of invisibility. But they put an owlbear there which sees through invisibility... How is that design decision to you, folks? You literally tell the player to take the potions and then put and anti-stealth detector there, leaving another route for characters with high Athletics? Maybe characters with Athletics can already kill those beasts in a fight?

    This encounter requires metagame, and it's a really, really bad decision.

    One way to escape is via an Athletic [20] check, yes. Another one involves a Mobility [15] check. Folks not excelling in either those skills can use the Freedom of Movement scroll to escape the entangle traps, use the Invisibility potion to fool the Hydra and use summoned creatures to keep both the Owlbear and Flytrap at bay... for a time. Or you can just run for the hills (of note is that wearing armor slows you down - unequipping them makes it easier to run away). If none of those methods work for your then it's best to just postpone the A Just Reward quest for later. It's available until you begin Chapter 3 after all.

    Personally, I am quite fond of this map myself. It is challenging, yes. But still completeable for a wide range of builds. The encounters are also not mere cannon fodder, making it double interesting to play through. All in all it shows just how expendable your character is to the nymph. Gotta say I found Ratnook Hill in Chapter 1 to be way more unforgiven.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    Only a curiosity. What difficulty are you playing? Because the trolls gave me a lot of trouble even on normal with minor adjustments. And what class is your MC?

    My first MC was a sorcerer of undead bloodline. This old school style of games are amazing for necromancers. Summon monsetr I summons a weak monster, then you learn how to animate dead who creates 6 skeletons, then soul eaters if you are evil and azatas if good. Soul eater deals WIS damage and are good to lower WIS saves from tough mobs. Summon monster IX can summon Thanadaemons. No hard cap on summons, only limited by how much spell slots you have.

    At moment, i an playing gothic 2 with returning and plan to do another Pathfinder Kingmaker run after i finish(stuck on chapter 5), a video if someone wanna knows more in spoiler
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    edited March 2020
    Oh, now the Act 2 Nymph Solo visit. So, I have the main character as a supporting cleric. She doesn't have points in Athletics or Stealth. She's a support caster. Yes, the journal was quite clear about the ambush: I took potions of invisibility. But they put an owlbear there which sees through invisibility... How is that design decision to you, folks? You literally tell the player to take the potions and then put and anti-stealth detector there, leaving another route for characters with high Athletics? Maybe characters with Athletics can already kill those beasts in a fight?

    This encounter requires metagame, and it's a really, really bad decision.

    One way to escape is via an Athletic [20] check, yes. Another one involves a Mobility [15] check. Folks not excelling in either those skills can use the Freedom of Movement scroll to escape the entangle traps, use the Invisibility potion to fool the Hydra and use summoned creatures to keep both the Owlbear and Flytrap at bay... for a time. Or you can just run for the hills (of note is that wearing armor slows you down - unequipping them makes it easier to run away). If none of those methods work for your then it's best to just postpone the A Just Reward quest for later. It's available until you begin Chapter 3 after all.

    Personally, I am quite fond of this map myself. It is challenging, yes. But still completeable for a wide range of builds. The encounters are also not mere cannon fodder, making it double interesting to play through. All in all it shows just how expendable your character is to the nymph. Gotta say I found Ratnook Hill in Chapter 1 to be way more unforgiven.

    My char is a Cleric, she doesn't have Athletic and Mobility. I used the invis potion (or even 2 of them) but creatures notice me. I didn't try summoning monsters or running down, - but I hope you realize this advice is pure meta-gaming. As is postponing the A Just Reward quest for later. This is even more blatant meta-gaming. It reminds me of visiting the Adra Dragon in PoE without the knowledge of Scrolls of Paralysis.

    I don't like encounter design like that. And to think about it, it brings me back to https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/75197/pathfinder-kingmaker-minimal-and-no-reload-thread-spoilers-obviously/p4 At that point, I didn't have any experience or knowledge about the game. But I can clearly see now what @BelgarathMTH shared there.

    The character might be feeling so expendable that it might be the end of P:K for me.
    Only a curiosity. What difficulty are you playing? Because the trolls gave me a lot of trouble even on normal with minor adjustments. And what class is your MC?

    My first MC was a sorcerer of undead bloodline. This old school style of games are amazing for necromancers. Summon monsetr I summons a weak monster, then you learn how to animate dead who creates 6 skeletons, then soul eaters if you are evil and azatas if good. Soul eater deals WIS damage and are good to lower WIS saves from tough mobs. Summon monster IX can summon Thanadaemons. No hard cap on summons, only limited by how much spell slots you have.

    At moment, i an playing gothic 2 with returning and plan to do another Pathfinder Kingmaker run after i finish(stuck on chapter 5), a video if someone wanna knows more in spoiler

    I'm playing on Normal, with enemy damage set to 1.0. A cleric of the Healing Domain, with points put into Wisdom and Charisma. For checks - Perception, Persuasion and Knowledge (Religion).
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    Lowering the difficulty setting and/or the various combat-specific toggles/sliders for specific encounters is a perfectly reasonable option as well. I do this myself from time to time. It's your game. Nobody gets to judge you for how you choose to play it.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    My char is a Cleric, she doesn't have Athletic and Mobility. I used the invis potion (or even 2 of them) but creatures notice me. I didn't try summoning monsters or running down, - but I hope you realize this advice is pure meta-gaming. As is postponing the A Just Reward quest for later. This is even more blatant meta-gaming. It reminds me of visiting the Adra Dragon in PoE without the knowledge of Scrolls of Paralysis.
    Not at all? The journey entry blantly tells you to survive at all costs. This of course also includes all spells and items at your disposal. Each class build has the tools to survive the ordeal - even Clerics.

    Just because the quest was seemingly frustrating for yourself doesn't make it the map design or its encounters in any way bad.
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