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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 said:

    deltago said:

    deltago said:

    LadyRhian said:
    So I am tired of hearing police getting a bad rap for crap like this:

    Police will always come if called.

    Police will always trespass a person on behest of the owner of an establishment.

    If this happened in Canada, the kids would have a nice civil suit on their hands as if they are stopped and the business can’t prove they stole something they were detained against thier will. They’ll still be trespassed though.

    The cops and the business are both enforcing the same societal power structure, which is that black people have no real right to even engage in everyday activities if a white person feels uncomfortable and wants to call the police on them. We have seen this over and over and over again all throughout the last year. They get the cops called on them for moving into a new apartment. They get the cops called on them in less than 5 minutes waiting for a friend for a meeting at a Starbucks. They get reported for having a BBQ at a public park. They get reported for doing their job checking on a house as a real estate agent. They get reported for walking a white baby in a stroller. On and on and on and on it goes. These are just the ones that make news. Completely mundane activities no one would even blink an eye at if a white person were engaged in them are seen as potential criminal acts when engaged in by African-Americans, because the default assumption is that their skin color itself makes them inherently more criminal. There is no other explanation for it. I can't even imagine what it must be like to go through day to day with this kind of piano hanging over your head. Where you know you are simply one paranoid person's phone call away from having to explain to law enforcement why you are simply existing and going about daily activities in society. Who then might shoot you if your hands are anywhere near the vicinity of your waist.
    Police do not have the luxury to determine if the phone call is frivolous or not.

    You can take the example of the kid dying in the car after getting stuck between the backseat and the trunk and getting a call through 911 via OnStar into what happens when officers don’t take all calls seriously.

    Stores are not public property so if an owner wants to issue a trespass notice, the police are obliged to do so.

    If society is the problem, it’s time to fix the problem and stop pointing fingers.

    That manager should be fired immediately.

    Wrongful arrest/detention laws should start being legislated.

    There is a lot of crap that cops do wrong in America, but this isn’t one of them but if they are kept being the scapegoat to sensualize a story it’s not going to change until every racist is publicly shamed in this way. That, sadly, would take far too long.
    Maybe they should start charging people for wasting policemen/women's time. They charge you for an ambulance ride, why not for frivolous police calls?

    I feel like I want to support this, but the bar would have to be pretty high and obvious as to what is frivolous. And I also think the last thing we need are more municipal fines, which really do nothing but suck money from people who already don't have any.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    Balrog99 said:

    deltago said:

    deltago said:

    LadyRhian said:
    So I am tired of hearing police getting a bad rap for crap like this:

    Police will always come if called.

    Police will always trespass a person on behest of the owner of an establishment.

    If this happened in Canada, the kids would have a nice civil suit on their hands as if they are stopped and the business can’t prove they stole something they were detained against thier will. They’ll still be trespassed though.

    The cops and the business are both enforcing the same societal power structure, which is that black people have no real right to even engage in everyday activities if a white person feels uncomfortable and wants to call the police on them. We have seen this over and over and over again all throughout the last year. They get the cops called on them for moving into a new apartment. They get the cops called on them in less than 5 minutes waiting for a friend for a meeting at a Starbucks. They get reported for having a BBQ at a public park. They get reported for doing their job checking on a house as a real estate agent. They get reported for walking a white baby in a stroller. On and on and on and on it goes. These are just the ones that make news. Completely mundane activities no one would even blink an eye at if a white person were engaged in them are seen as potential criminal acts when engaged in by African-Americans, because the default assumption is that their skin color itself makes them inherently more criminal. There is no other explanation for it. I can't even imagine what it must be like to go through day to day with this kind of piano hanging over your head. Where you know you are simply one paranoid person's phone call away from having to explain to law enforcement why you are simply existing and going about daily activities in society. Who then might shoot you if your hands are anywhere near the vicinity of your waist.
    Police do not have the luxury to determine if the phone call is frivolous or not.

    You can take the example of the kid dying in the car after getting stuck between the backseat and the trunk and getting a call through 911 via OnStar into what happens when officers don’t take all calls seriously.

    Stores are not public property so if an owner wants to issue a trespass notice, the police are obliged to do so.

    If society is the problem, it’s time to fix the problem and stop pointing fingers.

    That manager should be fired immediately.

    Wrongful arrest/detention laws should start being legislated.

    There is a lot of crap that cops do wrong in America, but this isn’t one of them but if they are kept being the scapegoat to sensualize a story it’s not going to change until every racist is publicly shamed in this way. That, sadly, would take far too long.
    Maybe they should start charging people for wasting policemen/women's time. They charge you for an ambulance ride, why not for frivolous police calls?

    I feel like I want to support this, but the bar would have to be pretty high and obvious as to what is frivolous. And I also think the last thing we need are more municipal fines, which really do nothing but suck money from people who already don't have any.
    Yeah, I guess it would just end up being a stupidity tax. Maybe people SHOULD start being charged for being stupid. It certainly costs the rest of us a Hell of a lot of money, time, resources, stress, unnecessary laws and rules (idiot-proofing), headaches, etc...
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    deltago said:


    sensualize a story

    Hoo boy, that's one terribly horrendous typo/autocorrect failure!

    "sensationalize".

    This what comes of being an English major, when the first thing you notice is words that Don't QUITE fit. Sorry, just had to note this.

    Other recent typos spotted (not on this website)
    "Go for the juggler" (They should have written "Jugular")
    And on a video on YouTube. "That's is!" (That's IT)

    Sigh, the plight of the poor English Major. ;)
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    LadyRhian said:

    deltago said:


    sensualize a story

    Hoo boy, that's one terribly horrendous typo/autocorrect failure!

    "sensationalize".

    This what comes of being an English major, when the first thing you notice is words that Don't QUITE fit. Sorry, just had to note this.

    Other recent typos spotted (not on this website)
    "Go for the juggler" (They should have written "Jugular")
    And on a video on YouTube. "That's is!" (That's IT)

    Sigh, the plight of the poor English Major. ;)
    Made even worse by the ever present autocorrector that seems to randomly scramble my sentences into gibberish...
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    deltago said:

    deltago said:

    LadyRhian said:
    So I am tired of hearing police getting a bad rap for crap like this:

    Police will always come if called.

    Police will always trespass a person on behest of the owner of an establishment.

    If this happened in Canada, the kids would have a nice civil suit on their hands as if they are stopped and the business can’t prove they stole something they were detained against thier will. They’ll still be trespassed though.

    The cops and the business are both enforcing the same societal power structure, which is that black people have no real right to even engage in everyday activities if a white person feels uncomfortable and wants to call the police on them. We have seen this over and over and over again all throughout the last year. They get the cops called on them for moving into a new apartment. They get the cops called on them in less than 5 minutes waiting for a friend for a meeting at a Starbucks. They get reported for having a BBQ at a public park. They get reported for doing their job checking on a house as a real estate agent. They get reported for walking a white baby in a stroller. On and on and on and on it goes. These are just the ones that make news. Completely mundane activities no one would even blink an eye at if a white person were engaged in them are seen as potential criminal acts when engaged in by African-Americans, because the default assumption is that their skin color itself makes them inherently more criminal. There is no other explanation for it. I can't even imagine what it must be like to go through day to day with this kind of piano hanging over your head. Where you know you are simply one paranoid person's phone call away from having to explain to law enforcement why you are simply existing and going about daily activities in society. Who then might shoot you if your hands are anywhere near the vicinity of your waist.
    Police do not have the luxury to determine if the phone call is frivolous or not.

    You can take the example of the kid dying in the car after getting stuck between the backseat and the trunk and getting a call through 911 via OnStar into what happens when officers don’t take all calls seriously.

    Stores are not public property so if an owner wants to issue a trespass notice, the police are obliged to do so.
    A business like a grocery store is a place of "public accommodation". A business issuing a trespass notice to persons on the basis of their skin color is a violation of Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The police are under no obligation to aid in the commission of an illegal act.
    It wasn't for their skin colour. It was some other "reason" which could have been made up. Cops are not juries. If it is a Civil Rights violation then these kids can and should bring it to court.

    But if the manager said "I want them trespassed because they are black!" then the cops can say no. I doubt the manager said that directly even if he dog whistled it with the phrase "people like them."
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    And so Giuliani has come out today and said, the White House should be able to "correct" the Mueller report before it goes public.

    Rudy Giuliani says President Trump's legal team should be allowed to "correct" special counsel Robert Mueller's final report before Congress or the American people get the chance to read it.

    The claim, made in a telephone interview with The Hill on Thursday evening, goes further than the president's legal advisers have ever gone before in arguing they have a right to review the conclusions of Mueller's probe, which is now in its 20th month.

    "As a matter of fairness, they should show it to you — so we can correct it if they're wrong," said the former New York City mayor, who is a member of Trump's personal legal team. "They're not God, after all. They could be wrong."


    Like.... seriously.... NO.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Balrog99 said:

    LadyRhian said:

    deltago said:


    sensualize a story

    Hoo boy, that's one terribly horrendous typo/autocorrect failure!

    "sensationalize".

    This what comes of being an English major, when the first thing you notice is words that Don't QUITE fit. Sorry, just had to note this.

    Other recent typos spotted (not on this website)
    "Go for the juggler" (They should have written "Jugular")
    And on a video on YouTube. "That's is!" (That's IT)

    Sigh, the plight of the poor English Major. ;)
    Made even worse by the ever present autocorrector that seems to randomly scramble my sentences into gibberish...
    Tell me about it!
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2019
    This is right up there with "let them eat cake". Do these guys have ANY comprehension about how real-life actually works?? This is one of the most tone-deaf comments I have ever seen:


    Today is one paycheck missed. For many, that is going to be crippling in and of itself. If this goes two more weeks, and this gets to TWO missed paychecks, you are going to start to see some serious ramifications. Unpaid rent to landlords, insurance premiums not being paid, people having to take their kids out of daycare because they can't pay for it. That doesn't even get into essentials like food or diapers for babies. These are just 5 of a couple HUNDRED things that are just not going to get paid all around the country because these people now have absolutely no income. National parks around the country are being turned into garbage dumpsters as we speak. TSA agents no longer give a shit if they are doing their job correctly, and why should they?? The air traffic controllers union is now suing the Administration. Anyone feel like flying this week??

    People can't just go get money. It doesn't work like that. Many, many people live paycheck to paycheck, but I would gather MOST people cannot possibly afford to miss 2 or 3 without draining their bank account, savings, and whatever meager lines of credit they might have. Again, the next scheduled missed check would be the 25th, which would mean the first of the month and most major bills would only be a few days away. If Trump and the GOP are looking at their poll numbers tanking as of today, just wait until you have a million people who haven't been paid in a month approaching the 1st of February.

    I have been rounding up the 800,000 to roughly a million to make things easier to quantify in terms of human impact. Out of the 325 million people in the US, I roughly guessed maybe 150-175 million of them are full-time workers. So you take that, then you have to at least assume everyone of those people (on average) has at least a spouse and one child. So in that case you have to assume that at least a full 1% of the entire population is unable to meet any financial obligations until this is fixed.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @jjstraka34 did you see this dig at trump

    https://youtu.be/PjK7Kue6Nrk
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    I did see it. And you can say whatever you want about Schumer and Pelosi having plenty of money, but they at least clearly understand what missed paychecks for workers mean. Trump has no earthly idea what working for a paycheck means. It's not that he just doesn't care to relate to it, he CAN'T relate to it. He is fundamentally incapable of even understanding what he is doing here. I mean, he doesn't care, but even if he pretended to, he wouldn't. The guy has been screwing workers on his construction projects out of payment for decades. He is someone whose success is BUILT on the suffering of other people. I don't know if we would classify him as a sociopath or a psychopath, but he is absolutely somewhere between one of the two.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2019
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    edited January 2019
    Once again, I guarantee you this manager made up some excuse that would have worked like verbally assaulting an employee. Not saying they did do that, but it is now a he said/he said situation and the cops aren't jurors, nor should they be, so issue the trespassing notice at behest of the company, and let the courts sort it out. As I said, this sounds like a nice civil case waiting to happen.

    edit: because if they do not issue a trespass and these kids do come back to the store, my money is on the manager escalating it further and the cops having to be called in again.

    ~

    Horrific bus crash in Ottawa today. 3 dead many more severely injured. Double decker bus hit a patch of ice, lost control and rammed into the waiting area of a bus station, severing the top of the bus where people were sitting.

    This is the second deadly accident involving these buses. Speed might have been a factor, but what was definitely a factor was the size of the bus. If it wasn't a double decker It would have just jumped the curb and go under the hanging metal canopy and crashed into something concrete. People would have still been injured but not as severely (although it is now reported one of the dead was waiting on the platform) These buses need to be taken off the road.

    Please have your thoughts and prayers for all those affected by this tragedy.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    deltago said:

    Horrific bus crash in Ottawa today. 3 dead many more severely injured. Double decker bus hit a patch of ice, lost control and rammed into the waiting area of a bus station, severing the top of the bus where people were sitting.

    This is the second deadly accident involving these buses. Speed might have been a factor, but what was definitely a factor was the size of the bus. If it wasn't a double decker It would have just jumped the curb and go under the hanging metal canopy and crashed into something concrete. People would have still been injured but not as severely (although it is now reported one of the dead was waiting on the platform) These buses need to be taken off the road.

    Please have your thoughts and prayers for all those affected by this tragedy.

    I saw that, and it's horrendous. I really feel sad for the three killed and (according to the story I read) 17 injured. I hope the injured get well quickly, And they really should do something about that. I hear those busses can be easily unbalanced depending on the way the weight of their passengers are distributed. By my thoughts go out to everyone involved. I am sure the bus driver (if he survived) must also feel terrible.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    LadyRhian said:

    deltago said:

    Horrific bus crash in Ottawa today. 3 dead many more severely injured. Double decker bus hit a patch of ice, lost control and rammed into the waiting area of a bus station, severing the top of the bus where people were sitting.

    This is the second deadly accident involving these buses. Speed might have been a factor, but what was definitely a factor was the size of the bus. If it wasn't a double decker It would have just jumped the curb and go under the hanging metal canopy and crashed into something concrete. People would have still been injured but not as severely (although it is now reported one of the dead was waiting on the platform) These buses need to be taken off the road.

    Please have your thoughts and prayers for all those affected by this tragedy.

    I saw that, and it's horrendous. I really feel sad for the three killed and (according to the story I read) 17 injured. I hope the injured get well quickly, And they really should do something about that. I hear those busses can be easily unbalanced depending on the way the weight of their passengers are distributed. By my thoughts go out to everyone involved. I am sure the bus driver (if he survived) must also feel terrible.
    She, yes, and she was placed under arrest at the scene and brought in for more questioning, hence why I think speed was a factor.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Ah. Yes. She. Wow. She must feel lower than dirt about now.

    'What more can we take?' Puerto Ricans outraged Trump would take recovery funds for border wall

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/what-more-can-we-take-puerto-ricans-outraged-trump-would-n957616?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma
    This? This is lower than Scum.

    Missouri Rep. Calls Pregnancy By Rape God’s ‘Silver Lining’

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/05/missouri-rep-calls-pregnancy-by-rape-gods-silver-lining/?fbclid=IwAR2DhnDY1L2fq87TeNEM-ptazIrWA5Pyqvu-VMdQzLkcSoUJVBYxgcr_2T4
    Every time I see this, it just makes me angrier.

    Trump at the Rubicon

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/01/11/pers-j11.html

    F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/politics/fbi-trump-russia-inquiry.html

    Thousands Of Federal Workers Just Missed Their First Paycheck

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/government-shutdown-missed-first-paycheck_us_5c37e522e4b045f6768a7877?fbclid=IwAR3OtJsrgOpe38eIegHfOAQiLyKV0CbABXVJ6rBYrcr07gzEWwDHSkKsr5Y

    FBI Agents Say the Shutdown Is a Threat to National Security

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/01/fbi-agents-say-shutdown-threatens-national-security/580039/?fbclid=IwAR2qybHShHnmcUHnHjOufTEUyXbaJHiag64MDZKc2rl_QD1X-yaI-h1xqoU

    Tucker Carlson has sparked the most interesting debate in conservative politics

    https://www.vox.com/2019/1/10/18171912/tucker-carlson-fox-news-populism-conservatism-trump-gop?fbclid=IwAR0RMOeX984iG3vvKt8ftO1dPLWj428otCiiEWz7ssm2wc-nsA0AdoIlA-g

    Senators Introduce Assault Weapons Ban

    https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2019/1/senators-introduce-assault-weapons-ban?fbclid=IwAR0amwGQuVeqtlOLh35ntyUWAKt1dw6j-c4f_X5cVowjdgLjg4i81p9MAlE

    And now some good news...

    How NYC Books Through Bars is bringing books to inmates

    https://www.shareable.net/blog/how-nyc-books-through-bars-is-bringing-books-to-inmates?fbclid=IwAR0cy_98JzrYuWFOd5O7WrQRA_pA0IbpKvSzDC6Vutq9EnWTWvAD97nxDj8
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    The Democrats need to find a way to change the conversation away from the government shutdown because it is playing right into Trump’s hand. Everything else encircling him has gone mute except for the “Wall.” And this is not about the wall, but to keep the conversation (and the inquiries) at bay.

    They need to start throwing McConnell under the bus everytime they are asked about it instead of Trump as well.

    “We passed a spending bill on Jan X and are awaiting Congress to bring it to a floor for a vote. It’s up to McConnell to do the job he was elected to do and bring this bill to a vote or resign. He is not bringing it to a vote because he doesn’t think it’ll pass, he isn’t bringing to a vote because he knows it will pass.” What if it doesn’t pass or Trump vetos it? “If it comes to that point, we’ll begin to discuss it, right now it is premature to do so. We have a bill that the Senate passed 100-0 a month ago. I do not think over 40 Senators will flip flop on something that they agreed to less than a month ago. Get this bill to the Senate floor so all the hard working civil servants can start getting paid again.”

    That should be thier response everytime they are asked about the Shutdown. Leave Trump’s name out of it. Once the bill gets passed in the Senate it will be squarely on Trump where the conversation can be changed to “Trump doesn’t want the government to function because it will finally be able to hold him accountable over the last two years of corrupt behaviour. He’d rather sacrifice air safety, immigration control and our national parks than be held accountable. This is not about a wall or the southern border, it is about him.”
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2019
    deltago said:

    The Democrats need to find a way to change the conversation away from the government shutdown because it is playing right into Trump’s hand. Everything else encircling him has gone mute except for the “Wall.” And this is not about the wall, but to keep the conversation (and the inquiries) at bay.

    They need to start throwing McConnell under the bus everytime they are asked about it instead of Trump as well.

    “We passed a spending bill on Jan X and are awaiting Congress to bring it to a floor for a vote. It’s up to McConnell to do the job he was elected to do and bring this bill to a vote or resign. He is not bringing it to a vote because he doesn’t think it’ll pass, he isn’t bringing to a vote because he knows it will pass.” What if it doesn’t pass or Trump vetos it? “If it comes to that point, we’ll begin to discuss it, right now it is premature to do so. We have a bill that the Senate passed 100-0 a month ago. I do not think over 40 Senators will flip flop on something that they agreed to less than a month ago. Get this bill to the Senate floor so all the hard working civil servants can start getting paid again.”

    That should be thier response everytime they are asked about the Shutdown. Leave Trump’s name out of it. Once the bill gets passed in the Senate it will be squarely on Trump where the conversation can be changed to “Trump doesn’t want the government to function because it will finally be able to hold him accountable over the last two years of corrupt behaviour. He’d rather sacrifice air safety, immigration control and our national parks than be held accountable. This is not about a wall or the southern border, it is about him.”

    McConnell is subservient to the movement. The guy stole a Supreme Court seat, he pushed through a man who was obviously perjuring himself left and right earlier this year to sit on the same court. His wife is in the Cabinet. It isn't just Democrats who need to focus on him, it's the frickin' media. McConnell has arguably done just as much if not more to tear down the institutions of the American government in the last 3 years as Trump has. The idea that the Senate cannot vote on a bill unless the President agrees to sign it is absolute hogwash. Trump, as you said, will let this go indefinitely. He does not care, and while I originally didn't think so, I am starting to come around to the idea that this is a purposeful tactic to delay and distract from what is obviously an approaching doom from Congressional investigations and Mueller. It's been over 3 weeks. Like I have said the last couple days, things are going to get REAL ugly if these workers miss a second check. And Republican Senators up for reelection in 2020 can't afford to have thousands of constituents blaming them for not getting paid. And unlike 2018, there are a TON more Republicans defending than Democrats. Corey Stewart in Colorado and Susan Collins in Maine absolutely cannot afford to be tied to Trump on this for much longer. They are already at best 50/50 prospects to keep their seats the way things are going.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    deltago said:

    The Democrats need to find a way to change the conversation away from the government shutdown because it is playing right into Trump’s hand. Everything else encircling him has gone mute except for the “Wall.” And this is not about the wall, but to keep the conversation (and the inquiries) at bay.

    They need to start throwing McConnell under the bus everytime they are asked about it instead of Trump as well.

    While I dont disagree that placing the blame on McConnell should be part of the Democrat's strategy - I reject the idea that anything is "playing" into Trump's hands. Pollsters have started to see an even bigger shift against him on who is responsible (essentially, only the 35% of hardcore supporters blame anyone but him).

    Pressure is still building. I dont think we'll hit critical mass until there are gigantic airport delays and tax-refunds start becoming a bigger issue. For now, Trump can afford to ride out the situation. Not sure that's true in 2 weeks.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    deltago said:

    The Democrats need to find a way to change the conversation away from the government shutdown because it is playing right into Trump’s hand. Everything else encircling him has gone mute except for the “Wall.” And this is not about the wall, but to keep the conversation (and the inquiries) at bay.

    They need to start throwing McConnell under the bus everytime they are asked about it instead of Trump as well.

    While I dont disagree that placing the blame on McConnell should be part of the Democrat's strategy - I reject the idea that anything is "playing" into Trump's hands. Pollsters have started to see an even bigger shift against him on who is responsible (essentially, only the 35% of hardcore supporters blame anyone but him).

    Pressure is still building. I dont think we'll hit critical mass until there are gigantic airport delays and tax-refunds start becoming a bigger issue. For now, Trump can afford to ride out the situation. Not sure that's true in 2 weeks.
    Public opinion doesn’t matter though. He does not care what you think. He only cares about silencing his critics and he gets to do that the longer the shutdown drags on.

    And as long as he can still create the narrative that democrats aren’t negotiating, when in reality they don’t have to, he doesn’t have to budge. McConnell needs to be nudged first and he’ll be easier to pressure to do so.

    Keep Trump out of the conversation and only bring his name up when talking about the investigations.

    Oh and allegedly Ivanka’s name has been floated to take over as president of The World Bank. Let that sink in even if it is a false narrative.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2019
    Everything that continues to go wrong with the Administration was just as evident two months into it as it is now. The corruption, the nepotism, the incompetence in regards to normal government functions. Nothing has changed since then but the volume of the incidents. In regards to Russia, there was credible reporting showing the basic outlines as early as June of 2016, because I remember reading about Manafort and the convention platform on Ukraine being changed at the time. Nothing that is happening now should really be a surprise to anyone. God knows enough people were sounding the alarm bells. I don't see and have never seen how any of this ends well. Trump will go scorched earth when the chips are down. He won't hesitate to take the entire country down with him in the process.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    After Trump fired Comey, the FBI opened an investigation into whether Trump was a Russian puppet since he seemingly kept doing Putin's bidding. This was before the public butt kissing Trump did to Putin in Helsinki

    Presumably they were able to confirm that he was but we don't have the results publicly yet.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/politics/fbi-trump-russia-inquiry.html
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2019
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2019

    After Trump fired Comey, the FBI opened an investigation into whether Trump was a Russian puppet since he seemingly kept doing Putin's bidding. This was before the public butt kissing Trump did to Putin in Helsinki

    Presumably they were able to confirm that he was but we don't have the results publicly yet.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/politics/fbi-trump-russia-inquiry.html

    Everything since the Comey firing has been an epilogue as far as I'm concerned. The speculation was that of course he fired him because of the Flynn investigation. But then Trump went on TV and ADMITTED he fired him because of the Flynn investigation. It's not some liberal conspiracy theory. Trump pulled his best "You're damn right I did" when Lester Holt asked him if he'd ordered the code red. He then walked into a meeting with two Russian diplomats and said he had been under great pressure because of Russia, and now that he had fired Comey, that was no longer an issue. I mean, why WOULDN'T they have started investigating the possibility?? If someone walked into a police station and said "yeah, I committed that murder that took place on 3rd Street last week", I'm fairly certain the cops wouldn't just shrug their shoulders. Trump looked right into a camera and said "yeah, I fired Comey because I wanted to stop the Flynn investigation". This isn't up for debate unless reality is up for debate. Tonight, we have this from the Washington Post:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-has-concealed-details-of-his-face-to-face-encounters-with-putin-from-senior-officials-in-administration/2019/01/12/65f6686c-1434-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f2afe6158911

    President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

    Trump did so after a meeting with Putin in 2017 in Hamburg that was also attended by then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. U.S. officials learned of Trump’s actions when a White House adviser and a senior State Department official sought information from the interpreter beyond a readout shared by Tillerson.

    The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States’ main adversaries.

    As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years. Such a gap would be unusual in any presidency, let alone one that Russia sought to install through what U.S. intelligence agencies have described as an unprecedented campaign of election interference.


    This sums it up pretty damn well:

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    The Democrat line shoukd be simple: both houses of Congress have done their jobs and passed a spending bill. The people's representatives have spoken clearly. The only getting in the way of it are two men: Trump and McConnell. Period.

    But by saying Trump and McConnell, McConnell can just point the finger to Trump like he has been doing. The ball isn’t in Trump’s court, it’s in McConnell’s. Focus on him and leave Trump out of it. McConnell will fold faster than... insert your own illegal immigrant doing laundry joke here.

    Don’t pick a fight with the person looking to fight, pick a fight with the guy cowering in the corner.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Oh and Canadians are being gracious neighbours again as Canadian Air Traffic Control personnel are buying pizza for the American counterparts from East to West as the shut down drags on and lawsuits from unions pile up.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2019
    deltago said:

    The Democrat line shoukd be simple: both houses of Congress have done their jobs and passed a spending bill. The people's representatives have spoken clearly. The only getting in the way of it are two men: Trump and McConnell. Period.

    But by saying Trump and McConnell, McConnell can just point the finger to Trump like he has been doing. The ball isn’t in Trump’s court, it’s in McConnell’s. Focus on him and leave Trump out of it. McConnell will fold faster than... insert your own illegal immigrant doing laundry joke here.

    Don’t pick a fight with the person looking to fight, pick a fight with the guy cowering in the corner.

    Don't underestimate Mitch McConnell under any circumstances. He is destructive, but he is not dumb. He is quite, quite good at what he is doing. And the only reason McConnell wants to Senate back up and running is so he can keep confirming lower court judges. His only real goal is getting as many members of the Federalist Society on the federal bench as humanly possible in 4 years (2016 to 2020). He hasn't been remotely popular in Kentucky for years, yet he keeps getting reelected anyway. So McConnell doesn't much care about how he is perceived, and I imagine he thinks it's quite likely he is only going to be Majority Leader for another two years anyway. There are only two goals during that time: the aforementioned judges, and protecting Trump from impeachment no matter what is revealed. But we do have to stop pretending there is some sort of large chasm between the rank and file GOP and Trump at this point. We have been hearing about this so-called disconnect for the last 2 years and it has never, ever materialized. The highest the threat level of Republican Senators ever gets is that they will say they are "troubled" or "find that concerning". They are all scared shitless of the base. They can't win anything without them, and Trump completely co-opted them by starting to say the implied parts of their ideology out loud. They see primaries from the right under their bed at night.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    deltago said:

    Oh and Canadians are being gracious neighbours again as Canadian Air Traffic Control personnel are buying pizza for the American counterparts from East to West as the shut down drags on and lawsuits from unions pile up.

    I love the Canadians! My best drunken rant was with Canadians in Searchmont Ski Resort in Canada. I had the bartender and about 5 other Canucks debating me about the War of 1812 and how we would have all been brothers if the US had just won. They were all good sports and far more knowledgeable about history than 99% of Americans.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    deltago said:

    The Democrat line shoukd be simple: both houses of Congress have done their jobs and passed a spending bill. The people's representatives have spoken clearly. The only getting in the way of it are two men: Trump and McConnell. Period.

    But by saying Trump and McConnell, McConnell can just point the finger to Trump like he has been doing. The ball isn’t in Trump’s court, it’s in McConnell’s. Focus on him and leave Trump out of it. McConnell will fold faster than... insert your own illegal immigrant doing laundry joke here.

    Don’t pick a fight with the person looking to fight, pick a fight with the guy cowering in the corner.

    Don't underestimate Mitch McConnell under any circumstances. He is destructive, but he is not dumb. He is quite, quite good at what he is doing. And the only reason McConnell wants to Senate back up and running is so he can keep confirming lower court judges. His only real goal is getting as many members of the Federalist Society on the federal bench as humanly possible in 4 years (2016 to 2020). He hasn't been remotely popular in Kentucky for years, yet he keeps getting reelected anyway. So McConnell doesn't much care about how he is perceived, and I imagine he thinks it's quite likely he is only going to be Majority Leader for another two years anyway. There are only two goals during that time: the aforementioned judges, and protecting Trump from impeachment no matter what is revealed. But we do have to stop pretending there is some sort of large chasm between the rank and file GOP and Trump at this point. We have been hearing about this so-called disconnect for the last 2 years and it has never, ever materialized. The highest the threat level of Republican Senators ever gets is that they will say they are "troubled" or "find that concerning". They are all scared shitless of the base. They can't win anything without them, and Trump completely co-opted them by starting to say the implied parts of their ideology out loud. They see primaries from the right under their bed at night.
    Well the religious right would likely not mind Pence as President, so there is that possibility if Trump has a meltdown or indisputable evidence of collusion materializes. Trust me, Evangelicals believe Russia is Gog and will invade Israel to bring on Armageddon. I'm not kidding...
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