I can't believe we are doing this shit again. I mean, we learn NOTHING. Watching the same movie play out at 37 the same as I did at 23 is enough to make me want to scream. How can our collective memory of how this turns out be this bad??
Hmmm, let's see if I remember. Country X proclaims they will destroy us. We'll get to hear on CNN and MSNBC how horrible the war will be for our forces. We kick the shit out of the 10th biggest (or 7th biggest, 12th biggest, whatever the hell it is) military in the world while losing 100 casualties (mostly, to friendly fire). We force a surrender and fuck up the occupation so we can do the same thing again 10-20 years later. Sound about right?
No critic was EVER claiming we couldn't waltz into Bagdhad. The concern was ALWAYS about what happened after. Bush stood on that aircraft carrier with his banner and then the entire thing fell apart, exactly as was predicted. The base bulit as a result of that war is what is being targeted tonight.
Our causalities evetually hit 4000. The number of Iraqis killed is anywhere between 100,000 and a million. Don't frame it only through American lives. That's how this was allowed to happen last time. It's how much of the US viewed entire masses of innocent people as "collateral damage". And they didn't give a shit and turn on the guy responsible for it til their 401ks took a hit.
I can't believe we are doing this shit again. I mean, we learn NOTHING. Watching the same movie play out at 37 the same as I did at 23 is enough to make me want to scream. How can our collective memory of how this turns out be this bad??
Hmmm, let's see if I remember. Country X proclaims they will destroy us. We'll get to hear on CNN and MSNBC how horrible the war will be for our forces. We kick the shit out of the 10th biggest (or 7th biggest, 12th biggest, whatever the hell it is) military in the world while losing 100 casualties (mostly, to friendly fire). We force a surrender and fuck up the occupation so we can do the same thing again 10-20 years later. Sound about right?
No critic was EVER claiming we couldn't waltz into Bagdhad. The concern was ALWAYS about what happened after. Bush stood on that aircraft carrier with his banner and then the entire thing fell apart, exactly as was predicted. The base bulit as a result of that war is what is being targeted tonight.
Our causalities evetually hit 4000. The number of Iraqis killed is anywhere between 100,000 and a million. Don't frame it only through American lives. That's how this was allowed to happen last time. It's how much of the US viewed entire masses of innocent people as "collateral damage". And they didn't give a shit and turn on the guy responsible for it til their 401ks took a hit.
I'm not framing anything. Just portraying what the whole thing looked like to the average American...
Hysteria - Omg I'm going to get drafted and die because those guys are tough!
Richare Engel is the most plugged in foreign correspondent in the Middle East there is. He's been in the thick of all of this for decades. This is not good. Iran is not fucking around. At the moment, they view this as "getting even". If Trump responds, there is no going back:
Richare Engel is the most plugged in foreign correspondent in the Middle East there is. He's been in the thick of all of this for decades. This is not good. Iran is not fucking around. At the moment, they view this as "getting even". If Trump responds, there is no going back:
As much as it pains me to say this given how much I despise him, I am hoping to god Tucker Carlson goes on FOX tonight and tells Trump to chill the fuck out and let this thing stand as is. As dumb as it sounds, someone on FOX News prime-time may be our only hope at averting this.
As much as it pains me to say this given how much I despise him, I am hoping to god Tucker Carlson goes on FOX tonight and tells Trump to chill the fuck out and let this thing stand as is. As dumb as it sounds, someone on FOX News prime-time may be our only hope at averting this.
I have a bad feeling Trump is not going to let this go no matter what Tucker Carlson says. He's likely too butthurt that his bluff was called after all of his boisterous threats to back down now. Unless the Ayatollah and Trump both whip their dicks out for an official measurement, we're in for at least a few weeks of fireworks...
As much as it pains me to say this given how much I despise him, I am hoping to god Tucker Carlson goes on FOX tonight and tells Trump to chill the fuck out and let this thing stand as is. As dumb as it sounds, someone on FOX News prime-time may be our only hope at averting this.
I have a bad feeling Trump is not going to let this go no matter what Tucker Carlson says. He's likely too butthurt that his bluff was called after all of his boisterous threats to back down now. Unless the Ayatollah and Trump both whip their dicks out for an official measurement, we're in for at least a few weeks or fireworks...
I seriously, seriously doubt he is even capable of the bare minimum impulse control required for this situation. This is the moment everyone was terrified of having him be in charge of.
As much as it pains me to say this given how much I despise him, I am hoping to god Tucker Carlson goes on FOX tonight and tells Trump to chill the fuck out and let this thing stand as is. As dumb as it sounds, someone on FOX News prime-time may be our only hope at averting this.
I have a bad feeling Trump is not going to let this go no matter what Tucker Carlson says. He's likely too butthurt that his bluff was called after all of his boisterous threats to back down now. Unless the Ayatollah and Trump both whip their dicks out for an official measurement, we're in for at least a few weeks or fireworks...
I seriously, seriously doubt he is even capable of the bare minimum impulse control required for this situation. This is the moment everyone was terrified of having him be in charge of.
Just hope that it plays out without a war. Neither side really has anything to gain. Invading Iran or destroying their oil facilities will also piss off China since they buy a lot of (illegal?) oil from them.
As much as it pains me to say this given how much I despise him, I am hoping to god Tucker Carlson goes on FOX tonight and tells Trump to chill the fuck out and let this thing stand as is. As dumb as it sounds, someone on FOX News prime-time may be our only hope at averting this.
I have a bad feeling Trump is not going to let this go no matter what Tucker Carlson says. He's likely too butthurt that his bluff was called after all of his boisterous threats to back down now. Unless the Ayatollah and Trump both whip their dicks out for an official measurement, we're in for at least a few weeks or fireworks...
I seriously, seriously doubt he is even capable of the bare minimum impulse control required for this situation. This is the moment everyone was terrified of having him be in charge of.
Just hope that it plays out without a war. Neither side really has anything to gain. Invading Iran or destroying their oil facilities will also piss off China since they buy a lot of (illegal?) oil from them.
And, since China serves as the primary exporter of oil to North Korea...
...Ugh. Maybe I shouldn't have made that connection. Way to make myself even gloomier over this whole situation.
Ya read that. The Memo equates to dollar over ethics. You may not like what the message is, but if someone is paying you to get it out, you get it out. It's actually more unethical to not promote that message because you are forcing a censorship on it.
Apply the same type of concept to like an alcohol ad. You may personally think alcohol is a bad influence on you, and you may think that no one should be drinking it, however, it you work in marketing and have a client that wants to push their new alcoholic brand, you have to push it (within the standard laws). Same applies to a republican ad campaign. If it's not breaking any laws and they are paying for the space, you have to run the ad.
As much as it pains me to say this given how much I despise him, I am hoping to god Tucker Carlson goes on FOX tonight and tells Trump to chill the fuck out and let this thing stand as is. As dumb as it sounds, someone on FOX News prime-time may be our only hope at averting this.
I have a bad feeling Trump is not going to let this go no matter what Tucker Carlson says. He's likely too butthurt that his bluff was called after all of his boisterous threats to back down now. Unless the Ayatollah and Trump both whip their dicks out for an official measurement, we're in for at least a few weeks or fireworks...
I seriously, seriously doubt he is even capable of the bare minimum impulse control required for this situation. This is the moment everyone was terrified of having him be in charge of.
Just hope that it plays out without a war. Neither side really has anything to gain. Invading Iran or destroying their oil facilities will also piss off China since they buy a lot of (illegal?) oil from them.
As I've said before both Iran and Trump hold power through fear and maintaining the appearance of being "tough".
Their supporters each believe they are God's chosen one, they can't back down that would appear weak, and we all know they can't admit a mistake ever.
These types are extremely dangerous.
Someone mentioned Baghdad Bob. The Trump administration is full of Baghdad Bobs, they won't tell the truth they'll tell you what the dear leader wants you to hear that the leader is tough and they are winning. Iran probably has this same stuff, they maintain that they are great and tough and can't admit mistakes or being wrong.
As much as it pains me to say this given how much I despise him, I am hoping to god Tucker Carlson goes on FOX tonight and tells Trump to chill the fuck out and let this thing stand as is. As dumb as it sounds, someone on FOX News prime-time may be our only hope at averting this.
I have a bad feeling Trump is not going to let this go no matter what Tucker Carlson says. He's likely too butthurt that his bluff was called after all of his boisterous threats to back down now. Unless the Ayatollah and Trump both whip their dicks out for an official measurement, we're in for at least a few weeks or fireworks...
I seriously, seriously doubt he is even capable of the bare minimum impulse control required for this situation. This is the moment everyone was terrified of having him be in charge of.
Just hope that it plays out without a war. Neither side really has anything to gain. Invading Iran or destroying their oil facilities will also piss off China since they buy a lot of (illegal?) oil from them.
And, since China serves as the primary exporter of oil to North Korea...
...Ugh. Maybe I shouldn't have made that connection. Way to make myself even gloomier over this whole situation.
Throw in China making a move on Taiwan while our forces are occupied elsewhere and you have a potential Tom Clancy novel...
There don't appear to be any American casualties at this point. Trump still has time to crawl back from this abyss. But I will say this. The appetite for war is NOT there among the public. No one has been given a single cogent explanation as to why the assassination had to take place in the first place. He'll have his 33% base. But the country as a whole will turn on him, provided the Democrats have the spine to stand up to him.
Iranian leaders are selling this as a major attack to placate their own population. Which is total propoganda. These strikes were the bare minimum they could have done to save face. They are handing us an off-ramp on a silver platter.
There don't appear to be any American casualties at this point. Trump still has time to crawl back from this abyss. But I will say this. The appetite for war is NOT there among the public. No one has been given a single cogent explanation as to why the assassination had to take place in the first place. He'll have his 33% base. But the country as a whole will turn on him, provided the Democrats have the spine to stand up to him.
Iranian leaders are selling this as a major attack to placate their own population. Which is total propoganda. These strikes were the bare minimum they could have done to save face. They are handing us an off-ramp on a silver platter.
But Fox News will probably feature people that will demand that Trump counter attack because otherwise he's weak... And he won't be able to stand for that.
As much as it pains me to say this given how much I despise him, I am hoping to god Tucker Carlson goes on FOX tonight and tells Trump to chill the fuck out and let this thing stand as is. As dumb as it sounds, someone on FOX News prime-time may be our only hope at averting this.
I have a bad feeling Trump is not going to let this go no matter what Tucker Carlson says. He's likely too butthurt that his bluff was called after all of his boisterous threats to back down now. Unless the Ayatollah and Trump both whip their dicks out for an official measurement, we're in for at least a few weeks or fireworks...
I seriously, seriously doubt he is even capable of the bare minimum impulse control required for this situation. This is the moment everyone was terrified of having him be in charge of.
Throw in China making a move on Taiwan while our forces are occupied elsewhere and you have a potential Tom Clancy novel...
It's even worse when you consider Putin maintains good relations with China and Iran, and equally strained with USA.
Last year I've seen several articles analyzing where a major conflict may arise in 2020. Guess what, we only had to wait a few days into new year :facepalm:
Everyone knew that Iran was going to retaliate to the point that the US was expecting it and placed everything on high alert.
If the US doesn't retaliate to these rocket attacks (which they really shouldn't) they may put their guard down elsewhere opening themselves up for a bigger attack. If Iran attack via proxy (as they have been doing before this missile attack), they can deny responsibility. Since the US's credibility is in the shitter, the US loses the opportunity to attack Iran back without angering everyone again.
Reading the story about the missile attacks this morning my immediate reaction is this was a deliberate attempt by Iran at de-escalation. The use of their own missiles was to make it clear this was a retaliation (as noted previously the pressure on them to retaliate was enormous given the scale of the provocation - killing their top army commander. That killing was itself initially described as a response to a demonstration that threw rocks at the US embassy, though the narrative shifted later to an unconvincing explanation that the killing would somehow prevent future attacks on US targets). However, the rocket attack appears to have been designed to cause minimal loss - such that there would be no need for further tit for tat.
This does feel to me that the Iranians are doing their best to avoid an open conflict - I imagine that's because they recognize the US could quickly do enormous damage to their economy and infrastructure. Let's hope that the US take the opportunity to step back from such a conflict. If they do undertake the sort of further retaliation Trump has threatened (such as illegally attacking cultural sites, or destroying oil infrastructure) then an open conflict is likely to start.
While easy to start, the US would never be able to end such a conflict quickly. A ground invasion of the sort done in Iraq is quite out of the question given there would be a total lack of international support, Iran is 4 times the size of Iraq and the terrain is harder to navigate. Such a conflict would thus be an unwinnable war of the sort seen in Afghanistan (rather than the situation in Iraq where the war was easy to win, but the lack of planning and the predatory use of commercial contracts has made what would always have been a difficult peace process considerably more problematic).
Even if the US does not respond at this stage directly, you can pretty much guarantee there will be an upsurge of terrorist activity against US targets. That is likely whether or not Iran directs proxies to do that, as both friends and enemies of Iran have an incentive to stage attacks. Friends would be acting in support of Iran, while enemies (such as Al Qaeda, who would also be enemies of the US of course) will wish to provoke a conflict. The relationship with Iran is going to be, at best, a potential flashpoint for years to come.
This all goes back to Trump ripping up the Iran deal. And he did it for no other reason than that he wanted to obliterate a success of Barack Obama. We were told up and down and sideways thay Iran would never live up to their end (they did). To this very second we still see conservatives talking about Obama giving Iran boatloads of cash (it was, in fact, Iran's own money that had been frozen by Executive Order during the Carter Administration, not a single US tax dollar). But they did. And we backed out unilaterally. It was Trump's choice to do so, and is all on him.
But as for history, the usual suspects will always point to the 1979 hostage crisis (in which no Americans were killed) as the starting gun of all this. It's total bullshit. The start is when our CIA overthrew their democratcially elected leader who was going to nationalize the oil profits of the country and we literally stole their society from them by installing the Shah so it wouldn't happen. The United States is, was, and will always be the aggressor in this relationship. The theocratic, hardline power in Iran literally ONLY EXISTS because they were formed to overthrow the puppet the US placed in power in 1953. Just like we created the Taliban. Everything we view as some existential threat in the Middle East (which is paranoid delusion in the first place) is something we created ourselves like Frankenstein in his lab. And I really don't want to start hating my own country again like I was very close to doing in 2003. But when you see the outright ignorance surrounding these dynamics, it's hard not to. We are not the good guys. Haven't been since World War II (well, maybe the Korean War).
“This maybe the year when we finally come face to face with ourselves; finally just lay back and say it—that we are really just a nation of 220 million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns, and no qualms at all about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable.” - Hunter S. Thompson
It crashed shortly after take-off and the Ukrainians have said engine failure was the cause, so I don't think missiles were involved. If it were just a coincidence, it would be a pretty hellish one. Given the problems there have been with the 737-max, it wouldn't be too much of a surprise if someone had decided to cause another 737 to crash in order to compromise Boeing and the US authorities.
This is......totally unsurprising. But my favorite thing about it is the dozen or so people who placed Iran in the middle of a large body of water, so apparently some people are under the impression it's some sort of sunken city:
Trump's idea of descalation: announce more sanctions, blame Obama for the attack last night, and continue to lie about the nuclear deal. Prediction: he will contradict multiple things he just said on Twitter within 24 hours, based entirely on what he sees on TV afterwards. He's incoherent, and he's incoherent because he flails from one day to the next with no thought of what happens 24 hours later. Calling on NATO to take a bigger role?? Would those be the countries he has insulted for 3 years running?? This is so by the book Trump. Create a crisis entirely of your own making, walk up to the brink, then claim credit for ending something that should have never started in the first place.
Comments
No critic was EVER claiming we couldn't waltz into Bagdhad. The concern was ALWAYS about what happened after. Bush stood on that aircraft carrier with his banner and then the entire thing fell apart, exactly as was predicted. The base bulit as a result of that war is what is being targeted tonight.
Our causalities evetually hit 4000. The number of Iraqis killed is anywhere between 100,000 and a million. Don't frame it only through American lives. That's how this was allowed to happen last time. It's how much of the US viewed entire masses of innocent people as "collateral damage". And they didn't give a shit and turn on the guy responsible for it til their 401ks took a hit.
I'm not framing anything. Just portraying what the whole thing looked like to the average American...
Hysteria - Omg I'm going to get drafted and die because those guys are tough!
Pride - Whoa, we kicked ass! We rock!
Realization - Wtf are we doing there again?
That's right, the Goddamned Martians are next. It's high time we got some payback for Flight 19!
This is definitely starting to sound familiar now. Did Baghdad Bob move to Iran?
I have a bad feeling Trump is not going to let this go no matter what Tucker Carlson says. He's likely too butthurt that his bluff was called after all of his boisterous threats to back down now. Unless the Ayatollah and Trump both whip their dicks out for an official measurement, we're in for at least a few weeks of fireworks...
I seriously, seriously doubt he is even capable of the bare minimum impulse control required for this situation. This is the moment everyone was terrified of having him be in charge of.
Just hope that it plays out without a war. Neither side really has anything to gain. Invading Iran or destroying their oil facilities will also piss off China since they buy a lot of (illegal?) oil from them.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/07/tech/boz-trump-facebook/index.html
And, since China serves as the primary exporter of oil to North Korea...
...Ugh. Maybe I shouldn't have made that connection. Way to make myself even gloomier over this whole situation.
Ya read that. The Memo equates to dollar over ethics. You may not like what the message is, but if someone is paying you to get it out, you get it out. It's actually more unethical to not promote that message because you are forcing a censorship on it.
Apply the same type of concept to like an alcohol ad. You may personally think alcohol is a bad influence on you, and you may think that no one should be drinking it, however, it you work in marketing and have a client that wants to push their new alcoholic brand, you have to push it (within the standard laws). Same applies to a republican ad campaign. If it's not breaking any laws and they are paying for the space, you have to run the ad.
As I've said before both Iran and Trump hold power through fear and maintaining the appearance of being "tough".
Their supporters each believe they are God's chosen one, they can't back down that would appear weak, and we all know they can't admit a mistake ever.
These types are extremely dangerous.
Someone mentioned Baghdad Bob. The Trump administration is full of Baghdad Bobs, they won't tell the truth they'll tell you what the dear leader wants you to hear that the leader is tough and they are winning. Iran probably has this same stuff, they maintain that they are great and tough and can't admit mistakes or being wrong.
Throw in China making a move on Taiwan while our forces are occupied elsewhere and you have a potential Tom Clancy novel...
Iranian leaders are selling this as a major attack to placate their own population. Which is total propoganda. These strikes were the bare minimum they could have done to save face. They are handing us an off-ramp on a silver platter.
But Fox News will probably feature people that will demand that Trump counter attack because otherwise he's weak... And he won't be able to stand for that.
It's even worse when you consider Putin maintains good relations with China and Iran, and equally strained with USA.
Last year I've seen several articles analyzing where a major conflict may arise in 2020. Guess what, we only had to wait a few days into new year :facepalm:
This attack was just a red herring.
Everyone knew that Iran was going to retaliate to the point that the US was expecting it and placed everything on high alert.
If the US doesn't retaliate to these rocket attacks (which they really shouldn't) they may put their guard down elsewhere opening themselves up for a bigger attack. If Iran attack via proxy (as they have been doing before this missile attack), they can deny responsibility. Since the US's credibility is in the shitter, the US loses the opportunity to attack Iran back without angering everyone again.
This does feel to me that the Iranians are doing their best to avoid an open conflict - I imagine that's because they recognize the US could quickly do enormous damage to their economy and infrastructure. Let's hope that the US take the opportunity to step back from such a conflict. If they do undertake the sort of further retaliation Trump has threatened (such as illegally attacking cultural sites, or destroying oil infrastructure) then an open conflict is likely to start.
While easy to start, the US would never be able to end such a conflict quickly. A ground invasion of the sort done in Iraq is quite out of the question given there would be a total lack of international support, Iran is 4 times the size of Iraq and the terrain is harder to navigate. Such a conflict would thus be an unwinnable war of the sort seen in Afghanistan (rather than the situation in Iraq where the war was easy to win, but the lack of planning and the predatory use of commercial contracts has made what would always have been a difficult peace process considerably more problematic).
Even if the US does not respond at this stage directly, you can pretty much guarantee there will be an upsurge of terrorist activity against US targets. That is likely whether or not Iran directs proxies to do that, as both friends and enemies of Iran have an incentive to stage attacks. Friends would be acting in support of Iran, while enemies (such as Al Qaeda, who would also be enemies of the US of course) will wish to provoke a conflict. The relationship with Iran is going to be, at best, a potential flashpoint for years to come.
But as for history, the usual suspects will always point to the 1979 hostage crisis (in which no Americans were killed) as the starting gun of all this. It's total bullshit. The start is when our CIA overthrew their democratcially elected leader who was going to nationalize the oil profits of the country and we literally stole their society from them by installing the Shah so it wouldn't happen. The United States is, was, and will always be the aggressor in this relationship. The theocratic, hardline power in Iran literally ONLY EXISTS because they were formed to overthrow the puppet the US placed in power in 1953. Just like we created the Taliban. Everything we view as some existential threat in the Middle East (which is paranoid delusion in the first place) is something we created ourselves like Frankenstein in his lab. And I really don't want to start hating my own country again like I was very close to doing in 2003. But when you see the outright ignorance surrounding these dynamics, it's hard not to. We are not the good guys. Haven't been since World War II (well, maybe the Korean War).
“This maybe the year when we finally come face to face with ourselves; finally just lay back and say it—that we are really just a nation of 220 million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns, and no qualms at all about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable.” - Hunter S. Thompson
It seems it went to 8,000 feet caught on fire and fell out of the sky rapidly.
Maybe a bit if sabotage like this incident?:
https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
Maybe a missle?
Seems a bit of a coincidence.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7863359/Ukrainian-passenger-plane-carrying-180-people-crashes-near-Tehran-local-media.html
Just read it was a Boeing 737. What a surprise. Also, 82 of the passengers were Iranian so sabotage is unlikely (though not completely ruled out).