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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2020
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    I'm just pointing out that there isn't an equivalency here. Trump is basically immune to Democrat attacks because he just doesn't care. His followers will believe anything he says. Biden, by running as the 'nice guy' alternative, is going to have to take the high road for better or worse. Is he up for Trump's inevitable nastiness? We'll see. He could always pick Warren as his running mate and let her do the nasty part. She's clearly good at it. She basically took out Bloomberg in one debate!

    She did take him out, and when asked if her intent was to end his campaign that night in an interview after she dropped out, her answer was simply, "yes". At that point, it was basically a kamikaze mission, but it worked.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    She tried to take out Bernie too but it didn't work out and even hurt her a bit leading to her dropping out
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    She tried to take out Bernie too but it didn't work out and even hurt her a bit leading to her dropping out

    She was never going to beat out Bernie as the Progressive Democrat. He had too long of a history of unwavering views. I still respect Bernie so I'm going to vote for him come Tuesday. I don't think he has a realistic chance anymore though...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    She tried to take out Bernie too but it didn't work out and even hurt her a bit leading to her dropping out

    She was never going to beat out Bernie as the Progressive Democrat. He had too long of a history of unwavering views. I still respect Bernie so I'm going to vote for him come Tuesday. I don't think he has a realistic chance anymore though...

    Whitmer and Granholm coming out for Biden is not going to help. And Biden is WAY more popular in Michigan than Hillary was.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    She tried to take out Bernie too but it didn't work out and even hurt her a bit leading to her dropping out

    She was never going to beat out Bernie as the Progressive Democrat. He had too long of a history of unwavering views. I still respect Bernie so I'm going to vote for him come Tuesday. I don't think he has a realistic chance anymore though...

    It ain't ova yet. Biden has momentum but momentum can stop.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    I don't even know what to say at this point:

  • MaleficentOneMaleficentOne Member Posts: 211
    edited March 2020
    Stupidity knows no bounds.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2020
    Stupidity knows no bounds.

    Considering that the fatality rate of those over 80 is 15% (far and away the bulk of the deaths) this strikes me as nothing but an attempt to preserve airline profits at the expense of lives. But if people have checked the price of airfare the last few days, you'll understand this is a band-aid on a shotgun wound. This is human sacrifice at the altar of Delta and United's stock prices.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2020
    Ok, so Elizabeth Warren appeared on Saturday Night Live tonight. Pretty standard ritual for any politician. AOC posts a tweet about it indicating she really enjoyed it. And her mentions have been FLOODED with people essentially now calling HER a snake and saying shit, in total seriousness like "this is why people don't have healthcare". And, you know what, I've been trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, and just brush them off to the side, but Bernie's most ardent followers of this ilk are fucking nuts. This is absolutely ridiculous. It's a comedy sketch. How joyless do you have to be to take this position?? This is no less of a cult than the one Trump has, except it isn't big enough to actually win anything. They don't just burn bridges, they napalm them and then parachute in and slit the throats of any survivors in the vicinity, then turn around and demand anyone left standing join their cause. Unreal. It's like watching hundreds of Veruca Salt clones all amplify the same message. Screaming at the top of their lungs to get off SNL and endorse Bernie. Yep, that'll do it.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited March 2020
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Ok, so Elizabeth Warren appeared on Saturday Night Live tonight. Pretty standard ritual for any politician. AOC posts a tweet about it indicating she really enjoyed it. And her mentions have been FLOODED with people essentially now calling HER a snake and saying shit, in total seriousness like "this is why people don't have healthcare". And, you know what, I've been trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, and just brush them off to the side, but Bernie's most ardent followers of this ilk are fucking nuts. This is absolutely ridiculous. It's a comedy sketch. How joyless do you have to be to take this position?? This is no less of a cult than the one Trump has, except it isn't big enough to actually win anything. They don't just burn bridges, they napalm them and then parachute in and slit the throats of any survivors in the vicinity, then turn around and demand anyone left standing join their cause. Unreal. It's like watching hundreds of Veruca Salt clones all amplify the same message. Screaming at the top of their lungs to get off SNL and endorse Bernie. Yep, that'll do it.


    So are you convinced to vote Biden because of this? You do realize that those people may not be people at all right? And even if they are people, they might not be Bernie supporters - could very well be trolls for Trump or that Russia operation that continues to attack our electorate and sow division. Republican trolls want Bernie so they can be nasty to him because sOcIALIzm is bad and they can't wait to let everyone know that fAcT. So they are not above putting their hand on the scale. It's the same as when they screwed up Iowa Dem primary and the app crashed and they posted a phone number to fix the problem on TV and then the phone line was crammed with Trumpists calling and screaming and yelling about how gr8 Trump is.

    Bottom line: social media is a toilet. It's full of trolls and people showing the worst side if themselves.

    There's nothing wrong with supporting a politician who wants good policies. Who doesn't pathologically lie. Who believes in science. Vote for healthcare and protecting social security and ending wars for oil. Trump lol: 'we secured the oil!' saying the quiet oligarch part out loud. https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/trump-we-secured-the-oil-in-syria-and-never-agreed-to-protect-kurds-forever/2019/10/21/90d1e921-892b-4821-95db-0babee0f5292_video.html

    Is Biden better because no one cares about him and he has no policies? You have to win the election in the first place remember.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2020
    No, I'm still voting for Bernie in the primary. But this is getting a little absurd. If the anger I saw was even mostly focused on Biden this week I'd feel better about it, but it isn't. The rage over the disaster on Super Tuesday has all been aimed directly at Elizabeth Warren, while Biden continues to climb 15-20% in most state polls. It feels to me like a group of people who can see the writing on the wall and need someone to blame. And, you know, I'm sorry, but Elizabeth Warren is not some corporate sell-out. She probably the second most progressive candidate to run for a Democratic nomination after Bernie himself, and she's being treated as if she's Joe Lieberman.

    Bernie absolutely DID need Warren's endorsement. Not sure what else flips the script at this point. And the entire week in progressive online media was wall to wall "if Warren doesn't endorse Bernie this instant, she's proving she was a fraud". Nevermind the fact that Warren supporters had perfectly reasonable, and in some cases, deeply personal reasons for preferring her. It was nothing but basically putting a gun to the head of Warren supporters and saying (to quote the Godfather) "either your brains or your signature is going to be on that piece of paper".

    And the reaction last night was........bonkers. I'm sure there were many trolls and bots involved. But I saw plenty of people leading the charge on it who I am intimately familiar with and listen to and watch on a constant basis. And the initial reaction to Warren's sketches and then the reaction to AOC's tweet about it was mental. AOC is the only reason Bernie has a viable campaign. She endorsed him right after his heart attack, giving him the boost he needed at his most vulnerable. She makes one or two positive comments about someone who is 95% as progressive as Bernie, and all of sudden she needs to be excommunicated. I mean, how is ANYONE supposed to meet these standards?? What ARE the standards?? That everyone who isn't Bernie Sanders is a DNC stooge?? Is this the plan to win over the minimum of 20-25 moderate Senators you would need to even THINK about passing a phased in Medicare for All?? By going scorched Earth against half your own party and threatening to primary them??

    If I read one more tweet that says "thousands of people are dying because of lack of medical insurance and Elizabeth Warren is dancing on TV" I think I'm going to scream. First off, even if Bernie does win, we all realize that Medicare for All would take not a minor, but a MAJOR political miracle to pass, right?? The other line that is being repeated is that Warren isn't "taking things seriously". Well, there is a side in this dust-up that isn't serious, but it most certainly is not Elizabeth Warren for spending a couple hours on a sketch comedy show after ending her campaign. It's the people who saw it and DESPERATELY wanted to use it as a vessel to channel their anger at her. And it was basically like watching a real-time validation of every negative stereotype thrown at hardcore Bernie supporters.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    There’s been a slew of state polling rolling in today and yesterday. Bernie looks to be down 20 to 30 in Michigan, and may even be down a few points in Washington.

    If Sanders cannot even win Washington from Biden, then the race is over. What I don’t know is: Will Sanders stay in until the convention? I’d guess yes, just to make sure everyone gets a chance to vote - plus he can always hope that Biden spontaneously combusts at the debate.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2020
    Just a preview, as if becomes abundantly clear that Trump and his Administration have completely bungled every aspect of this Coronavirus situation from top to bottom, they are going to shift from insisting it's contained and under control to blaming immigrants and foreigners. It's already under way now that a CPAC attendee has been confirmed to have the virus and was in contact with SCORES of politicians and right-wing media personalities. One of them now under self-quarantine is literally calling it the "Wuhan flu". So I guess it's Asian-Americans's turn to feel the full wrath of American xenophobia.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    There’s been a slew of state polling rolling in today and yesterday. Bernie looks to be down 20 to 30 in Michigan, and may even be down a few points in Washington.

    If Sanders cannot even win Washington from Biden, then the race is over. What I don’t know is: Will Sanders stay in until the convention? I’d guess yes, just to make sure everyone gets a chance to vote - plus he can always hope that Biden spontaneously combusts at the debate.

    Well if we're stuck with Biden it will be a damn shame. It's definitely possible and looking that way. There are still something like 64% of delegates to award but for some reason everyone's talking like it's over so it probably is. He's such a weak candidate, again.

    Still, he's vastly preferable to Trump but that is not saying much. He's not going to do anything for us, he's going to protect the elites. So same old same old. I don't get why anyone would be like yeah I want this old guy who says he's going to cut social security and has been on the wrong side of every issue and will get nothing done. He's not going to legalize mj, fix healthcare, or slow down wars for oil.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    There’s been a slew of state polling rolling in today and yesterday. Bernie looks to be down 20 to 30 in Michigan, and may even be down a few points in Washington.

    If Sanders cannot even win Washington from Biden, then the race is over. What I don’t know is: Will Sanders stay in until the convention? I’d guess yes, just to make sure everyone gets a chance to vote - plus he can always hope that Biden spontaneously combusts at the debate.

    Well if we're stuck with Biden it will be a damn shame. It's definitely possible and looking that way. There are still something like 64% of delegates to award but for some reason everyone's talking like it's over so it probably is. He's such a weak candidate, again.

    Still, he's vastly preferable to Trump but that is not saying much. He's not going to do anything for us, he's going to protect the elites. So same old same old. I don't get why anyone would be like yeah I want this old guy who says he's going to cut social security and has been on the wrong side of every issue and will get nothing done. He's not going to legalize mj, fix healthcare, or slow down wars for oil.

    I’m not trying to poke you in the eye - but if Sanders couldn’t win with the massive funding and momentum that he had going into Super Tuesday - then Sanders is the weak candidate.

    At some point - winning is the biggest indicator of strength.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    There’s been a slew of state polling rolling in today and yesterday. Bernie looks to be down 20 to 30 in Michigan, and may even be down a few points in Washington.

    If Sanders cannot even win Washington from Biden, then the race is over. What I don’t know is: Will Sanders stay in until the convention? I’d guess yes, just to make sure everyone gets a chance to vote - plus he can always hope that Biden spontaneously combusts at the debate.

    Well if we're stuck with Biden it will be a damn shame. It's definitely possible and looking that way. There are still something like 64% of delegates to award but for some reason everyone's talking like it's over so it probably is. He's such a weak candidate, again.

    Still, he's vastly preferable to Trump but that is not saying much. He's not going to do anything for us, he's going to protect the elites. So same old same old. I don't get why anyone would be like yeah I want this old guy who says he's going to cut social security and has been on the wrong side of every issue and will get nothing done. He's not going to legalize mj, fix healthcare, or slow down wars for oil.

    I’m not trying to poke you in the eye - but if Sanders couldn’t win with the massive funding and momentum that he had going into Super Tuesday - then Sanders is the weak candidate.

    At some point - winning is the biggest indicator of strength.

    Or people are making a mistake again. Winning is cool and all but have we tried not picking the worst candidate? On the issues, Biden is weak.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited March 2020
    This is why we need an administration that is not packed with suck up yes men who will do anything they can except tell the truth because it might make the dear leader look bad.

    We told you. But you were too wrapped up in pretending a New York billionaire was some sort of racist truth telling genius and everyone in the news, his ex-staffers, and reality was wrong.

    It’s almost like putting a TV host and shady real estate developer with a narcissistic personality disorder, no government knowledge, 6 bankruptcies, 46 charges of sexual assault, 25,865 lies, and 38,394 lawsuits in charge of an entire country was a bad idea.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    edited March 2020
    So, I'm 32 years old. The current head of Russia became a president first in 2000, 20 years ago. So I hardly remember the period where there was another state leader.

    And here we go.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/vladimir-putin-amendment-power-russia-2024

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/10/putin-supports-presidential-term-reset-if-constitutional-court-approves-a69576

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-backs-proposal-paving-way-for-new-presidential-term-11583848309

    He's 67 years old. So he can easily have ~10 years in him.

    This is why when someone in another country mentions how they can affect their country's politics or even affect anything, really, I become very jealous.

    It seems I'll be seeing the same state leader in 2030 as when BG II was released.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    Bottom line: social media is a toilet. It's full of trolls and people showing the worst side if themselves.

    I have been saying that for quite some time. This same logic applies to cyberbullying--you can't be cyberbullied if you aren't paying any attention to social media. I haven't logged on to my social media in...six months? Maybe longer?

    *************

    I have to admit that I might have been incorrect. I presumed that Biden and Sanders would waltz in to Milwaukee to a brokered convention, which would result in a Biden nomination, but now it is starting to look like the convention might not be brokered. Both Harris and Booker have endorsed Biden

    *************

    I wonder if the breakdown in those talks between Russia and Saudi Arabia have anything to do with that story from last week about extended members of the Saudi royal family being arrested? Internal power struggle? MbS making sure to tighten his grip on the power? Anyway....the markets needed to blow off some steam and this is the form it is taking and at least this is better than credit default swaps collapsing, junk bonds coming due, or negative growth from manufacturers or in durable goods orders.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,651
    Trump's handling of the coronavirus was exceptionally bad, but I have little to add that hasn't already been said.

    Most importantly, he shouldn't be trying to downplay it. That's not his job. He should be offering sound practical advice and making policy to contain it. Obviously. It's such an easy win for him and he manages to completely mess it up.



    Unrelated, but I think individualist cultures will have a much harder time dealing with a more serious pandemic, since so many of the neccesary steps that would need to be taken are out of their ideological bounds. By the time most western governments would really act it would be too late.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2020
    Trump's handling of the coronavirus was exceptionally bad, but I have little to add that hasn't already been said.

    Most importantly, he shouldn't be trying to downplay it. That's not his job. He should be offering sound practical advice and making policy to contain it. Obviously. It's such an easy win for him and he manages to completely mess it up.



    Unrelated, but I think individualist cultures will have a much harder time dealing with a more serious pandemic, since so many of the neccesary steps that would need to be taken are out of their ideological bounds. By the time most western governments would really act it would be too late.

    Semi-draconian measures are going to be needed for the good of the populace at large, and, to be blunt about it, we're too spoiled to accept them, even temporarily. Take for instance a family in Missouri. Their child was exposed. They were told to self-quarantine. They didn't. The dad went to a conference, the mother went to the gym and a nail salon. They may have caused an outbreak in Missouri with their selfishness. If Governors or Trump himself start issuing madatory quarantines, I'm not gonna sit here and bitch about civil liberties. But it's likely already too late.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    edited March 2020
    Biden is coming to take your AR-14s since AR-15s are already illegal. Despite this, he will still pick up more delegates this evening than Sanders will.

    Oh, look at that--the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a ruling that will allow the House Judiciary Committee to view the grand jury information from the Mueller probe. I am uncertain why or what for at this point--just to satisfy their curiosity? No one cares anymore--Mueller is so 2019. The Dept. of Justice will just appeal to the SCOTUS, who may or may not pick up the case.

    If Democrats who did not vote for Warren are misogynists then are the Democrats who are not voting for Gabbard also misogynists? Wouldn't that include almost all Democrats?
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Semi-draconian measures are going to be needed for the good of the populace at large, and, to be blunt about it, we're too spoiled to accept them, even temporarily.

    Spoken like a dutiful Stalinist. Still, you are not incorrect even though we are not at "bring out your dead" status. Rational precautions rather than panic is where we should be--if you suspect you might have been exposed then self-quarantine is better than having hazmat troops drag you out of your house at gunpoint and putting you in a facility.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2020
    I'm not suggesting this is the Black Death. What I KNOW is that people aren't taking this seriously. And no, hoarding goods is not "taking it seriously". That's the opposite. I'm saying the general mood is "this is no big deal" and that is being conveyed from the very top. In ten days, everyone is likely going to be singing a very different tune.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,651
    edited March 2020
    Biden is coming to take your AR-14s since AR-15s are already illegal. Despite this, he will still pick up more delegates this evening than Sanders will.

    Oh, look at that--the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a ruling that will allow the House Judiciary Committee to view the grand jury information from the Mueller probe. I am uncertain why or what for at this point--just to satisfy their curiosity? No one cares anymore--Mueller is so 2019. The Dept. of Justice will just appeal to the SCOTUS, who may or may not pick up the case.

    If Democrats who did not vote for Warren are misogynists then are the Democrats who are not voting for Gabbard also misogynists? Wouldn't that include almost all Democrats?

    The Mueller saga annoys the hell out of me because despite the media and Democrat politicians being utterly wrong, just totally out of touch with reality for years, there is no accountability. To this day presidential candidates and the media in general will use the spectre of Russians subverting our democracy- in very selective, manipulative ways, including against Bernie- as though it is somehow a real threat when it obviously is not by every metric.

    There is no accountability when you own the watchdogs.

    Tulsi Gabbard is such an odd duck. She has support from the farthest left and the farthest right, but normie democrats hate her for reasons I do not understand.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    I don't think it is that big of a deal, myself....but...we are about to beef up our emergency supplies from three days to one week because it is wise to be prepared rather than not. No, we are not going to hoard toilet paper, either--that is just ridiculous--but our supplies of shelf-stable food will definitely increase.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    It's over. Sanders has lost Michigan. Might get shut out of Mississippi. Polls even had him down in Washington, although that's less certain.

    Now the question is: Should Sanders drop out? Or stay in? He wont be the nominee in 2020 in almost all conceivable situations. He still could put his message out by staying in, but it might be time to strike a more conciliatory tone with his rhetoric.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited March 2020
    It's over. Sanders has lost Michigan. Might get shut out of Mississippi. Polls even had him down in Washington, although that's less certain.

    Now the question is: Should Sanders drop out? Or stay in? He wont be the nominee in 2020 in almost all conceivable situations. He still could put his message out by staying in, but it might be time to strike a more conciliatory tone with his rhetoric.

    Math is now Bernie's enemy. There is no conceivable path to the nomination, just like there wasn't after Ohio in 2016. I believe Bernie has earned the right to advocate for his platform in at least one debate with Biden, but it won't matter. Use your leverage to push Biden to the left.

    This is also bringing into stark contrast how much of Bernie's support in 2016 was actually "anti-Hillary". Because Biden is totally crushing her numbers even though Bernie has been organizing in the state for the last 4 years. The youth vote is not materializing, and at this point it's fair to ask if it ever will for anyone.

    As a side-note, Tulsi Gabbard's claim to a spot on the debate stage takes a bit of a hit when she is getting less votes than 3 people who aren't even running anymore. Let's have the debate, let Bernie vigorously push for his ideas to be in the platform, and then wrap this up. Because what I, among others, have seriously underestimated is the appetite among voters for "can we please just go back to normal".
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