If he has no chance of winning, he should drop out and throw his support behind Biden. The longer he drags it out, the more he is viewed as a protest candidate and the more divided the democratic base will be.
Biden in turn should be over courteous and throw Sander supporters some sort of bone. It won't appease the zealots, nothing will, but it will keep animosity to a minimum.
It's time to clarify the message on what opposing Trump in November is going to be. There should have been a debate right after Super Tuesday when everyone dropped out to solidify the top candidates messages.
And if Biden is the candidate, I guess all investigations into him or his family should and will be kept on the downlow in the same courtesy Trump was given leading up into 2018.... ya thought as much.
If he has no chance of winning, he should drop out and throw his support behind Biden. The longer he drags it out, the more he is viewed as a protest candidate and the more divided the democratic base will be.
Biden in turn should be over courteous and throw Sander supporters some sort of bone. It won't appease the zealots, nothing will, but it will keep animosity to a minimum.
Bernie's "zealots" will get the blame regardless if and when Biden loses. It won't be Biden's fault or the media's fault for pushing Joe Biden so hard that it convinced people to vote for a totally flawed candidate AGAIN. Regardless, those Bernie zealots will be blamed if Biden loses but if Biden wins it's Biden on his own that did it. I feel like we're being ignored. Taken for granted.
Bernie should drop out and support Biden? Like how Warren dropped out and threw her support behind Bernie right? Screw that.
Real talk -
Biden said he'd veto medicare for all if it passed the house and senate. He says he wants to cut social security. He is not going to do anything to stop climate change. He's been on the wrong side of segregation and gay marriage as recently as a couple years ago. Hell, he doesn't know what planet he's on or who he is half the time.
I guess that might be enough to beat Trump because nothing matters but no he's not automatically getting my support. Screw him. He takes me for granted. Was he going to support Bernie if he was the nominee? No. So why should we automatically walk on over there and support Biden? Does that mean I support Trump? Absolutely not. But Biden is a stupid weak choice. This is dumb. Anyway, it's not over yet but things are bad for Bernie.
Well, not to address everything you said, but yes, Biden would have supported Bernie if he won. There is no indication he wouldn't have. Everyone on those debate stages took a pledge to support the nominee. Secondly, on vetoing Medicare for All, it's kind of a moot point because there is absolutely no way that bill would ever come across his desk to begin with. Because first Democrats would actually have to take the Senate (possible, but hard) and then they'd probably have to replace 15 people in their own party from generally red states. So being concerned about Biden vetoing that bill is as useful as being concerned he'd veto a bill from Congress calling for the entire population of Deleware to be launched into outer space on a rocket. They both have the same chances of getting to the point of needing a Presidential signature in the current environment. Sad, but true. Even WITH Bernie using every power of the bully pulpit to push it, it would probably fail. Barring that, it doesn't even get to the starting gate.
Biden would have supported Bernie. Bernie would never have had any chance to pass MFA, so any point on that account is essentially moot. Biden currently supports dealing with Climate Change, protecting LGBTQ rights and keeping the ACA intact, all things that Trump doesnt support. Biden won not because the media pushed him, but because Bernie didnt do a good enough job of consolidating his lead.
No serious contender for the nomination would have endorsed Bernie after the bloodletting he received on Super Tuesday. If the situation had been reversed, Bernie wouldnt have endorsed her (and smart politics say, he shouldnt have. Wait to see who is in the strongest position and then get on board).
Bernie supporters need to take the next few weeks to convalesce, but after that - it's time to put away the hard feelings. Especially since Biden is honestly running a pretty magnanimous campaign (No acrimony directed towards Sanders or anything).
Biden would have supported Bernie. Bernie would never have had any chance to pass MFA, so any point on that account is essentially moot. Biden currently supports dealing with Climate Change, protecting LGBTQ rights and keeping the ACA intact, all things that Trump doesnt support. Biden won not because the media pushed him, but because Bernie didnt do a good enough job of consolidating his lead.
No serious contender for the nomination would have endorsed Bernie after the bloodletting he received on Super Tuesday. If the situation had been reversed, Bernie wouldnt have endorsed her (and smart politics say, he shouldnt have. Wait to see who is in the strongest position and then get on board).
Bernie supporters need to take the next few weeks to convalesce, but after that - it's time to put away the hard feelings. Especially since Biden is honestly running a pretty magnanimous campaign (No acrimony directed towards Sanders or anything).
To be fair, Biden isn't running much of a campaign at all (certainly not in the sense that Sanders or Warren did). And I expect the same strategy to continue til November. Especially if this virus continues to take hold.
Biden would have supported Bernie. Bernie would never have had any chance to pass MFA, so any point on that account is essentially moot. Biden currently supports dealing with Climate Change, protecting LGBTQ rights and keeping the ACA intact, all things that Trump doesnt support. Biden won not because the media pushed him, but because Bernie didnt do a good enough job of consolidating his lead.
No serious contender for the nomination would have endorsed Bernie after the bloodletting he received on Super Tuesday. If the situation had been reversed, Bernie wouldnt have endorsed her (and smart politics say, he shouldnt have. Wait to see who is in the strongest position and then get on board).
Bernie supporters need to take the next few weeks to convalesce, but after that - it's time to put away the hard feelings. Especially since Biden is honestly running a pretty magnanimous campaign (No acrimony directed towards Sanders or anything).
All we've got is two straight weeks or more of hand wringing about what if it's awful Trump and awful Bernie and wouldn't that be awful.
There's been no hint of supporting Bernie if he was the nominee. There's been hand wringing and non-stop stories about how awful Bernie supporters are.
But now we're expected to support Biden.
No. You want support you'll have to like do something we care about. You have to earn it.
Biden would have supported Bernie. Bernie would never have had any chance to pass MFA, so any point on that account is essentially moot. Biden currently supports dealing with Climate Change, protecting LGBTQ rights and keeping the ACA intact, all things that Trump doesnt support. Biden won not because the media pushed him, but because Bernie didnt do a good enough job of consolidating his lead.
No serious contender for the nomination would have endorsed Bernie after the bloodletting he received on Super Tuesday. If the situation had been reversed, Bernie wouldnt have endorsed her (and smart politics say, he shouldnt have. Wait to see who is in the strongest position and then get on board).
Bernie supporters need to take the next few weeks to convalesce, but after that - it's time to put away the hard feelings. Especially since Biden is honestly running a pretty magnanimous campaign (No acrimony directed towards Sanders or anything).
All we've got is two straight weeks or more of hand wringing about what if it's awful Trump and awful Bernie and wouldn't that be awful.
There's been no hint of supporting Bernie if he was the nominee. There's been hand wringing about how awful the Bernie supporters are to me.
But now we're expected to support Biden. No. You want support you'll have to like do something we care about. You have to earn it.
I remember you making an argument that you are in elections to win them. I think you made that case when Kamala Harris dropped out after it was clear she wasnt going to win. The front runner gets attacked. Biden was attacked when he was the clear front runner, and Sanders got attacked when he became the front runner. Such is the way of things.
I dont recall Biden doing anything other than sparring on a few policy points with Sanders, and playing the numbers game (How will you pay for it). While I dislike that line of argument for reasons that have been retrod here ad nauseum, it's been clear all along that Biden wasnt going to kneecap any of the candidates.
If anything, the only two times that happened in the whole primary process was when Gabbard went hard after Harris in the second debate, and when Warren went after Bloomberg. I'm hoping there isnt a third.
Biden is reaching out to progressives. He literally did it tonight, and will continue you to do so. Not with a particular proposal, but that kind of stuff will come later. The actual worst thing progressives can do in this race now (and I'm one of them) is to pick up our ball and go home. In a 2 party system, it doesnt pay to be the 3rd party. Bernie pulled Clinton to the left in 2016. Bernie/Warren can pull Biden left in 2020.
For the record, as I've stated for quite a while - of the serious contenders: Biden and Sanders were my last two picks (Technically, Bloomberg was my actual least favorite in the race - but that was a flash in the pan). I dont like EITHER of my choices all that much, but I sure as hell know either one would be better than Trump for what I believe-in.
Biden would have supported Bernie. Bernie would never have had any chance to pass MFA, so any point on that account is essentially moot. Biden currently supports dealing with Climate Change, protecting LGBTQ rights and keeping the ACA intact, all things that Trump doesnt support. Biden won not because the media pushed him, but because Bernie didnt do a good enough job of consolidating his lead.
No serious contender for the nomination would have endorsed Bernie after the bloodletting he received on Super Tuesday. If the situation had been reversed, Bernie wouldnt have endorsed her (and smart politics say, he shouldnt have. Wait to see who is in the strongest position and then get on board).
Bernie supporters need to take the next few weeks to convalesce, but after that - it's time to put away the hard feelings. Especially since Biden is honestly running a pretty magnanimous campaign (No acrimony directed towards Sanders or anything).
All we've got is two straight weeks or more of hand wringing about what if it's awful Trump and awful Bernie and wouldn't that be awful.
There's been no hint of supporting Bernie if he was the nominee. There's been hand wringing about how awful the Bernie supporters are to me.
But now we're expected to support Biden. No. You want support you'll have to like do something we care about. You have to earn it.
I remember you making an argument that you are in elections to win them. I think you made that case when Kamala Harris dropped out after it was clear she wasnt going to win. The front runner gets attacked. Biden was attacked when he was the clear front runner, and Sanders got attacked when he became the front runner. Such is the way of things.
I dont recall Biden doing anything other than sparring on a few policy points with Sanders, and playing the numbers game (How will you pay for it). While I dislike that line of argument for reasons that have been retrod here ad nauseum, it's been clear all along that Biden wasnt going to kneecap any of the candidates.
If anything, the only two times that happened in the whole primary process was when Gabbard went hard after Harris in the second debate, and when Warren went after Bloomberg. I'm hoping there isnt a third.
Biden is reaching out to progressives. He literally did it tonight, and will continue you to do so. Not with a particular proposal, but that kind of stuff will come later. The actual worst thing progressives can do in this race now (and I'm one of them) is to pick up our ball and go home. In a 2 party system, it doesnt pay to be the 3rd party. Bernie pulled Clinton to the left in 2016. Bernie/Warren can pull Biden left in 2020.
For the record, as I've stated for quite a while - of the serious contenders: Biden and Sanders were my last two picks (Technically, Bloomberg was my actual least favorite in the race - but that was a flash in the pan). I dont like EITHER of my choices all that much, but I sure as hell know either one would be better than Trump for what I believe-in.
This is how primaries go. Sanders was my 3rd choice, Biden maybe my 3rd to last. The thing is, YOUR particular candidate rarely ever wins in a primary. Primaries are full of shattered dreams (ask Ted Kennedy's supporters in 1980, or Howard Dean's supporter's in 2004). To be invested in a primary process is to almost guarantee you'll only not be disappointed once every 20 years or so. This one stings because Bernie was right on the precipice and it's been building for 4 years. Don't think for a second I don't feel for the young volunteers who have been busting their ass for this. I wish it had gone different for them. But it didn't. They had a socialist on the verge of being a major party nominee for President in America in 2020. That isn't nothing.
Yeah Biden is better than Trump but the bar is incredibly low. Just like don't do the absolute worst thing you possibly could to sell us out to the elite corporate interests like Trump does and don't be a pathological liar and you are better than Trump. That's it.
Still, yeah right now I'm not feeling it. Biden stands for nothing. And he's been pushed down our throats like Hillary was. Not happy about it and incredibly disappointed in fellow Americans who voted for him.
Will there be a debate? I guess there will be.
Trump might have skipped out on debating Bernie because he'd lose on issues but Trump can probably run circles around Biden. But it does not really matter. Why? Trump lies so much so any points he makes don't matter even if they are things grounded in reality because you can't trust anything he says anyway.
Yeah Biden is better than Trump but the bar is incredibly low. Just like don't do the absolute worst thing you possibly could to sell us out to the elite corporate interests like Trump does and don't be a pathological liar and you are better than Trump. That's it.
Still, yeah right now I'm not feeling it. Biden stands for nothing. And he's been pushed down our throats like Hillary was. Not happy about it and incredibly disappointed in fellow Americans who voted for him.
Will there be a debate? I guess there will be.
Trump might have skipped out on debating Bernie because he'd lose on issues but Trump can probably run circles around Biden. But it does not really matter. Why? Trump lies so much so any points he makes don't matter even if they are things grounded in reality because you can't trust anything he says anyway.
Biden isn't really trying to be anything. He is running on, "let's go back to normal". I have doubts that can work, but the numbers tonight mean something. It shows that the hatred of Hillary personally and (let's be honest) misogyny generally ABSOLUTELY cost her large sections of the vote. The bet is that if Biden can even gain a FRACTION of it back by being a generally well-liked white guy, Trump's margin in the swing states disappears. Are they right?? Who knows??
Biden would have supported Bernie. Bernie would never have had any chance to pass MFA, so any point on that account is essentially moot. Biden currently supports dealing with Climate Change, protecting LGBTQ rights and keeping the ACA intact, all things that Trump doesnt support. Biden won not because the media pushed him, but because Bernie didnt do a good enough job of consolidating his lead.
No serious contender for the nomination would have endorsed Bernie after the bloodletting he received on Super Tuesday. If the situation had been reversed, Bernie wouldnt have endorsed her (and smart politics say, he shouldnt have. Wait to see who is in the strongest position and then get on board).
Bernie supporters need to take the next few weeks to convalesce, but after that - it's time to put away the hard feelings. Especially since Biden is honestly running a pretty magnanimous campaign (No acrimony directed towards Sanders or anything).
All we've got is two straight weeks or more of hand wringing about what if it's awful Trump and awful Bernie and wouldn't that be awful.
There's been no hint of supporting Bernie if he was the nominee. There's been hand wringing about how awful the Bernie supporters are to me.
But now we're expected to support Biden. No. You want support you'll have to like do something we care about. You have to earn it.
I remember you making an argument that you are in elections to win them. I think you made that case when Kamala Harris dropped out after it was clear she wasnt going to win. The front runner gets attacked. Biden was attacked when he was the clear front runner, and Sanders got attacked when he became the front runner. Such is the way of things.
I dont recall Biden doing anything other than sparring on a few policy points with Sanders, and playing the numbers game (How will you pay for it). While I dislike that line of argument for reasons that have been retrod here ad nauseum, it's been clear all along that Biden wasnt going to kneecap any of the candidates.
If anything, the only two times that happened in the whole primary process was when Gabbard went hard after Harris in the second debate, and when Warren went after Bloomberg. I'm hoping there isnt a third.
Biden is reaching out to progressives. He literally did it tonight, and will continue you to do so. Not with a particular proposal, but that kind of stuff will come later. The actual worst thing progressives can do in this race now (and I'm one of them) is to pick up our ball and go home. In a 2 party system, it doesnt pay to be the 3rd party. Bernie pulled Clinton to the left in 2016. Bernie/Warren can pull Biden left in 2020.
For the record, as I've stated for quite a while - of the serious contenders: Biden and Sanders were my last two picks (Technically, Bloomberg was my actual least favorite in the race - but that was a flash in the pan). I dont like EITHER of my choices all that much, but I sure as hell know either one would be better than Trump for what I believe-in.
This is how primaries go. Sanders was my 3rd choice, Biden maybe my 3rd to last. The thing is, YOUR particular candidate rarely ever wins in a primary. Primaries are full of shattered dreams (ask Ted Kennedy's supporters in 1980, or Howard Dean's supporter's in 2004). To be invested in a primary process is to almost guarantee you'll only not be disappointed once every 20 years or so. This one stings because Bernie was right on the precipice and it's been building for 4 years. Don't think for a second I don't feel for the young volunteers who have been busting their ass for this. I wish it had gone different for them. But it didn't. They had a socialist on the verge of being a major party nominee for President in America in 2020. That isn't nothing.
It is nothing. The narrative will be "sOcIALIzm was defeated again as it should be because moderates are the way to go and that's why we can never have healthcare or guaranteed sick leave and we need more tax cuts and more oil and gas investment and privatized school choice and less regulation and less safety nets and we need to cut social security and Medicare and " etc etc etc
Biden would have supported Bernie. Bernie would never have had any chance to pass MFA, so any point on that account is essentially moot. Biden currently supports dealing with Climate Change, protecting LGBTQ rights and keeping the ACA intact, all things that Trump doesnt support. Biden won not because the media pushed him, but because Bernie didnt do a good enough job of consolidating his lead.
No serious contender for the nomination would have endorsed Bernie after the bloodletting he received on Super Tuesday. If the situation had been reversed, Bernie wouldnt have endorsed her (and smart politics say, he shouldnt have. Wait to see who is in the strongest position and then get on board).
Bernie supporters need to take the next few weeks to convalesce, but after that - it's time to put away the hard feelings. Especially since Biden is honestly running a pretty magnanimous campaign (No acrimony directed towards Sanders or anything).
All we've got is two straight weeks or more of hand wringing about what if it's awful Trump and awful Bernie and wouldn't that be awful.
There's been no hint of supporting Bernie if he was the nominee. There's been hand wringing about how awful the Bernie supporters are to me.
But now we're expected to support Biden. No. You want support you'll have to like do something we care about. You have to earn it.
I remember you making an argument that you are in elections to win them. I think you made that case when Kamala Harris dropped out after it was clear she wasnt going to win. The front runner gets attacked. Biden was attacked when he was the clear front runner, and Sanders got attacked when he became the front runner. Such is the way of things.
I dont recall Biden doing anything other than sparring on a few policy points with Sanders, and playing the numbers game (How will you pay for it). While I dislike that line of argument for reasons that have been retrod here ad nauseum, it's been clear all along that Biden wasnt going to kneecap any of the candidates.
If anything, the only two times that happened in the whole primary process was when Gabbard went hard after Harris in the second debate, and when Warren went after Bloomberg. I'm hoping there isnt a third.
Biden is reaching out to progressives. He literally did it tonight, and will continue you to do so. Not with a particular proposal, but that kind of stuff will come later. The actual worst thing progressives can do in this race now (and I'm one of them) is to pick up our ball and go home. In a 2 party system, it doesnt pay to be the 3rd party. Bernie pulled Clinton to the left in 2016. Bernie/Warren can pull Biden left in 2020.
For the record, as I've stated for quite a while - of the serious contenders: Biden and Sanders were my last two picks (Technically, Bloomberg was my actual least favorite in the race - but that was a flash in the pan). I dont like EITHER of my choices all that much, but I sure as hell know either one would be better than Trump for what I believe-in.
This is how primaries go. Sanders was my 3rd choice, Biden maybe my 3rd to last. The thing is, YOUR particular candidate rarely ever wins in a primary. Primaries are full of shattered dreams (ask Ted Kennedy's supporters in 1980, or Howard Dean's supporter's in 2004). To be invested in a primary process is to almost guarantee you'll only not be disappointed once every 20 years or so. This one stings because Bernie was right on the precipice and it's been building for 4 years. Don't think for a second I don't feel for the young volunteers who have been busting their ass for this. I wish it had gone different for them. But it didn't. They had a socialist on the verge of being a major party nominee for President in America in 2020. That isn't nothing.
It is nothing. The narrative will be "sOcIALIzm was defeated again as it should be because moderates are the way to go and that's why we can never have healthcare or guaranteed sick leave and we need more tax cuts and more oil and gas investment and privatized school choice and less regulation and less safety nets and we need to cut social security and Medicare and " etc etc etc
You would agree that Bernie Sanders and AOC specifically have moved the default positions of the party significantly to the left, wouldn't you?? Medicare for All is out, but you can push Biden towards a public option.
The narrative will be "sOcIALIzm was defeated again as it should be because moderates are the way to go
*Democrat* voters are rejecting socialism. That says a lot.
See here we go. The story will be 'people like dying from no healthcare, thank God we don't have Socialism guuuhhhhh.' Dumbasses are dying on the streets but hey at least there is no socialism!
lets cut social security too because that's socialism.
It's mainstream media. It's propaganda. Corporate nonsense polluting minds and getting people to vote against their own interests. Neither Trump nor Biden want to help you. They both are in corporate pockets. (Well Trump's also deep in his own pockets.)
So the propaganda worked and we have extremely ill informed voters who believe what they see on the mainstream news. We can't have change or what every other first world country has figured out. Congrats you played yourself America.
Go pick yourself up by your bootstraps and have fun dying of the same old same old.
This sounds alot like Alex Jones. 'The Government is coming to get us and you ill informed idiots don't understand. THEY ARE COMING!!! ARGHHHH!!!'
Maybe people do not want socialism or socialist policies. If we don't respect the vote whether it be national or party then we don't respect the voter. That's more akin to Fascism, a very slippery slope.
The economic effects of the outbreak are going to be very significant, tourism is going to be way down this year, and Italy is the eurozone’s weak link.
On the bright side... lower economic activity means the planet gets to breathe, with air pollution down across China the coronavirus is also saving some lives...
So the propaganda worked and we have extremely ill informed voters who believe what they see on the mainstream news.
Actually, the Democratic Socialist propaganda did *not* work and we have voters who are informed enough to know that what Sanders was pushing would be bad for everyone. If someone happens to enjoy being completely subservient to the Federal Government and totally dependent upon them for everything as if they were a small child then perhaps that person should exercise their freedom to move to a place where that exists. No one is forcing anyone to remain in a place where the majority of people have different political views.
Biden's delegate count has risen to 787 while Sanders has 647--the victory he was holding in his hands two weeks ago has slipped right through his fingers. Meanwhile, lately Joe Biden's average speech time is about 7 mintues, at least when he isn't getting into verbal arguments with auto workers and asking them if they want to step outside.
I do agree that Sanders would have performed much better in debates against Trump because Bernie won't fall for Trump's crap. All Trump has to do is mention Hunter and Joe will get upset and wreck himself on the debate stage.
There has been at least one case of someone receiving chemical burns from buying an unlabeled, homemade "hand sanitizer" from a 7-11 store. If it doesn't have a label then you don't know what might be in it--don't buy it. (it was probably undiluted bleach--sodium hypochlorite)
This sounds alot like Alex Jones. 'The Government is coming to get us and you ill informed idiots don't understand. THEY ARE COMING!!! ARGHHHH!!!'
Maybe people do not want socialism or socialist policies. If we don't respect the vote whether it be national or party then we don't respect the voter. That's more akin to Fascism, a very slippery slope.
Medicare is the the most popular insurance we have. Social security is extremely popular. Having government health insurance is not fascism. It seems you too have fallen for propaganda. Ask anyone in the UK if they'd prefer privatized healthcare over the NHS or ask the same question in any country. The amount of delusion here is sad.
The Coronavirus is exposing how ridiculous this whole for profit system is. Pence says the major insurance companies will waive co-pays for Coronavirus testing. Whoopty do, why do we even have co-pays at all? Under Medicare for All we wouldn't have co-pays ever and it wouldn't be special and extraordinary for them to be waived. In every other country medical bankruptcy is not a thing but here where medical reasons are the leading cause of bankruptcies (66% of all bankruptcies). This isn't a thing in other countries. And you can leave your job and get a new one without worrying "gee what about my health insurance".
Why aren't our tax dollars being used to keep us alive? That's a bare minimum responsibility of government. We should not ever be farting around protecting corporate interests in the middle east.
People here are so brainwashed by propaganda they're saying government provided health insurance this is fascism.
How's that? So you're saying every other country that has this figured out is fascism. Well respectfully your gut instinct that this is fascism is dead wrong just like the 45,000 Americans who die every year from no health insurance.
Why aren't our tax dollars being used to keep us alive? That's a bare minimum responsibility of government.
No, that is *your* responsibility, not theirs. Do you think they can do a better job at it than you can? If so, then why should you be allowed to make medical decisions about your own care? If the government's job is to keep you alive then should not they also dictate your diet, to make sure you are eating correctly? Shouldn't they also dictate that you not engage in any activity which might unnecessarily put your life at risk? It's for your own good, after all.
@Mathsorcerer Yeah! Screw all the disabled people! They should just fix their own problems by curing their incurable disabilites! Man, people that aren't like me suck. Letting them die is totally the right option.
Why aren't our tax dollars being used to keep us alive? That's a bare minimum responsibility of government.
No, that is *your* responsibility, not theirs. Do you think they can do a better job at it than you can? If so, then why should you be allowed to make medical decisions about your own care? If the government's job is to keep you alive then should not they also dictate your diet, to make sure you are eating correctly? Shouldn't they also dictate that you not engage in any activity which might unnecessarily put your life at risk? It's for your own good, after all.
You should of course take care of yourself but healthcare should be available for you too. You pay taxes, you should get something back.
-not they also dictate your diet, to make sure you are eating correctly?
Yes. The obesity epidemic in America is a thing in America moreso than other countries because we don't do enough to ensure we have health food regulations. Other countries better regulate their food quality and not everything is loaded with sugar. Great point.
Shouldn't they also dictate that you not engage in any activity which might unnecessarily put your life at risk? It's for your own good, after all.
Dictate? No you should be allowed to self remove yourself from the gene pool if you insist. Should the government maybe warn you that hey that's dangerous before you do it? Yes.
Your turn
Should the government ban lead paint and dangerous chemicals? Should they ban children from drinking alcohol and cigarettes? Should there be child labor laws?
A modicum of regulation and prohibition is not a bad thing; I never said it wasn't. I was pointing out that the logic of "tax dollars should be used to keep us alive" will have unintended consequences--if tax dollars are used to keep you alive then you, as the recipient of that benevolence, must do as you are told in all regards to make certain you are not wasting tax money needlessly.
Now...as far as poor food choices are concerned....I work part-time at a grocery store and I cannot tell you how many people come in then make the first items they put into their baskets carbonated beverages and cookies. If they are choosing poorly then we should not have to pay for their poor choices--their health problems are theirs, not ours.
No one mentioned disabled people at all, so "ridiculous comment is ridiculous" and it will not be addressed.
Weinstein was sentenced to 23 years in New York, which is long enough that he will die in prison from illness and/or old age. That sentence is only for New York, though--the California cases are still pending.
Protests in Raleigh after police shot a man who was running from the scene where reports of a man waving a gun were made. The suspect, who was running, still had the gun on him and refused to drop it after repeated commands to drop the weapon. Why are they protesting? Because the guy had a gun and was running from the police? No, they are probably protesting because they are paying attention to false or incomplete social media narratives.
Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-SC) suggests that Democrats cancel any remaining primaries and just give Biden the nomination now, a sentiment which was mirrored by James Carville. Sanders is planning on making a statement at 1p EST...which is only a few minutes from now.
edit/add: He isn't dropping out, but will keep pushing on.
I hate all sorts of enforced insurance with a burning passion, healthcare included. It shouldn't exist in the first place, and instead be funded directly from taxes (raise the tax by equal amount if needed) - it's not like anyone pays insurance to be protected by police or firefighters or military, so why should healthcare be any different. Especially when more than anything it is an investment in taxpaying base.
A modicum of regulation and prohibition is not a bad thing
No disagreements here. Not sure what you were going for as far as disabled people, do we not agree there that they should be look after? Are you implying that they are obese? If so are there more here than anywhere else?
Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-SC) suggests that Democrats cancel any remaining primaries and just give Biden the nomination now, a sentiment which was mirrored by James Carville. Sanders is planning on making a statement at 1p EST...which is only a few minutes from now.
This is what the establishment wants and has wanted since they all decided to gang up on Bernie and they have roped the 'left wing' media to go against the actual leftist candidate. They support the center right candidate - Biden.
And James Carville, a talking head who should long ago have been put to pasture, has been a vocal anti-Bernite and was dancing on Bernie's 'grave' last night and said now Biden should announce his slogan for the general election that he is "Joe Biden for change". Lool.
This comes AFTER JAMES CARVILLE HAS BEEN MELTING DOWN ABOUT THE CHANGE CANDIDATE AND DOING EVERYTHING HE CAN TO STOP THE GUY. lol.. Hypocrisy much? Carville was like yeah voters want change, Biden for change... lol. Hypocrisy...
Biden has been quoted as telling a room full of elites that "nothing will fundamentally change" if he's elected. Now Biden's supposed to pretend to be the change candidate.
Why aren't our tax dollars being used to keep us alive? That's a bare minimum responsibility of government.
No, that is *your* responsibility, not theirs. Do you think they can do a better job at it than you can? If so, then why should you be allowed to make medical decisions about your own care? If the government's job is to keep you alive then should not they also dictate your diet, to make sure you are eating correctly? Shouldn't they also dictate that you not engage in any activity which might unnecessarily put your life at risk? It's for your own good, after all.
Dictate that you not engage in any activity which might put your life at risk such as driving over the speed limit while intoxicated and not wearing a seatbelt?
I am pretty sure they already do that. They also ‘encourage’ people to not smoke by taxing tobacco heavily, making sure adverse health warnings are clearly labeled on packaging and that these products aren’t advertised to children.
Other narcotics are also illegal and just having them in your possession can land you in jail in America. One drug that’s illegal doesn’t have any recorded fatalities associated with it, so if you are afraid of over reach... the government is already over reaching!
And yes, government should dictate or at least encourage a better diet. It’s how the food pyramid first started (too bad the sugar industry made sure ‘fat’ was the bad guy when in reality it wasn’t) and the FDA makes sure food that does hit the market doesn’t make us sick or kill us.
But god forbid the government to actually pay for your broken neck that you sustained from the drunk driver. It’s better to go after his estate and get them to pay for everything, having to go to civil court to pay lawyers to hopefully get the money you’ve already spent back on medical care.
A modicum of regulation and prohibition is not a bad thing
No disagreements here. Not sure what you were going for as far as disabled people, do we not agree there that they should be look after? Are you implying that they are obese? If so are there more here than anywhere else?
Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-SC) suggests that Democrats cancel any remaining primaries and just give Biden the nomination now, a sentiment which was mirrored by James Carville. Sanders is planning on making a statement at 1p EST...which is only a few minutes from now.
This is what the establishment wants and has wanted since they all decided to gang up on Bernie and they have roped the 'left wing' media to go against the actual leftist candidate. They support the center right candidate - Biden.
And James Carville, a talking head who should long ago have been put to pasture, has been a vocal anti-Bernite and was dancing on Bernie's 'grave' last night and said now Biden should announce his slogan for the general election that he is "Joe Biden for change". Lool.
This comes AFTER JAMES CARVILLE HAS BEEN MELTING DOWN ABOUT THE CHANGE CANDIDATE AND DOING EVERYTHING HE CAN TO STOP THE GUY. lol.. Hypocrisy much? Carville was like yeah voters want change, Biden for change... lol. Hypocrisy...
Biden has been quoted as telling a room full of elites that "nothing will fundamentally change" if he's elected. Now Biden's supposed to pretend to be the change candidate.
Biden isn’t center right. Don’t let your biases get in the way of the truth.
He is center left. Always has been, always will be. When the party was further right, he was still center left within its confines. That’s still true today.
Twenty minutes after this happened, the White House recalled all their witnesses for an immediate "emergency meeting". I truly, 100% believe this outbreak is the worst-case scenario under Trump. What did Adam Schiff say in his closing remarks during impeachment?? That Trump would ALWAYS put his personal interests over the well-being of the American people, and that everyone in that room knew it. It was true then, it's true now. But now it's deadly serious.
Other narcotics are also illegal and just having them in your possession can land you in jail in America. One drug that’s illegal doesn’t have any recorded fatalities associated with it, so if you are afraid of over reach... the government is already over reaching!
I have been advocating for decriminalization of chemical substances for years.
And yes, government should dictate or at least encourage a better diet. It’s how the food pyramid first started (too bad the sugar industry made sure ‘fat’ was the bad guy when in reality it wasn’t) and the FDA makes sure food that does hit the market doesn’t make us sick or kill us.
I was in elementary school when the food pyramid was being pushed in the 1970s. We studied and had a class assignment where we were supposed to create a healthy menu (soup or salad, entree, dessert, etc); if I recall, I went with fish, steamed vegetables, and rice (I didn't know about couscous when I was 8)--it was Mediterranean.
But god forbid the government to actually pay for your broken neck that you sustained from the drunk driver. It’s better to go after his estate and get them to pay for everything, having to go to civil court to pay lawyers to hopefully get the money you’ve already spent back on medical care.
After my grandfather died--he was killed by a drunk driver--my grandmother did not receive any money from the government; his life insurance policy and the settlement from the other person's insurance company almost made her a millionaire (she would not actually become one until the lawyer and the accountant managed to sell his business).
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Sanders will hang on through the national convention.
Comments
Biden in turn should be over courteous and throw Sander supporters some sort of bone. It won't appease the zealots, nothing will, but it will keep animosity to a minimum.
It's time to clarify the message on what opposing Trump in November is going to be. There should have been a debate right after Super Tuesday when everyone dropped out to solidify the top candidates messages.
And if Biden is the candidate, I guess all investigations into him or his family should and will be kept on the downlow in the same courtesy Trump was given leading up into 2018.... ya thought as much.
Bernie's "zealots" will get the blame regardless if and when Biden loses. It won't be Biden's fault or the media's fault for pushing Joe Biden so hard that it convinced people to vote for a totally flawed candidate AGAIN. Regardless, those Bernie zealots will be blamed if Biden loses but if Biden wins it's Biden on his own that did it. I feel like we're being ignored. Taken for granted.
Bernie should drop out and support Biden? Like how Warren dropped out and threw her support behind Bernie right? Screw that.
Real talk -
Biden said he'd veto medicare for all if it passed the house and senate. He says he wants to cut social security. He is not going to do anything to stop climate change. He's been on the wrong side of segregation and gay marriage as recently as a couple years ago. Hell, he doesn't know what planet he's on or who he is half the time.
I guess that might be enough to beat Trump because nothing matters but no he's not automatically getting my support. Screw him. He takes me for granted. Was he going to support Bernie if he was the nominee? No. So why should we automatically walk on over there and support Biden? Does that mean I support Trump? Absolutely not. But Biden is a stupid weak choice. This is dumb. Anyway, it's not over yet but things are bad for Bernie.
No serious contender for the nomination would have endorsed Bernie after the bloodletting he received on Super Tuesday. If the situation had been reversed, Bernie wouldnt have endorsed her (and smart politics say, he shouldnt have. Wait to see who is in the strongest position and then get on board).
Bernie supporters need to take the next few weeks to convalesce, but after that - it's time to put away the hard feelings. Especially since Biden is honestly running a pretty magnanimous campaign (No acrimony directed towards Sanders or anything).
To be fair, Biden isn't running much of a campaign at all (certainly not in the sense that Sanders or Warren did). And I expect the same strategy to continue til November. Especially if this virus continues to take hold.
All we've got is two straight weeks or more of hand wringing about what if it's awful Trump and awful Bernie and wouldn't that be awful.
There's been no hint of supporting Bernie if he was the nominee. There's been hand wringing and non-stop stories about how awful Bernie supporters are.
But now we're expected to support Biden.
No. You want support you'll have to like do something we care about. You have to earn it.
I remember you making an argument that you are in elections to win them. I think you made that case when Kamala Harris dropped out after it was clear she wasnt going to win. The front runner gets attacked. Biden was attacked when he was the clear front runner, and Sanders got attacked when he became the front runner. Such is the way of things.
I dont recall Biden doing anything other than sparring on a few policy points with Sanders, and playing the numbers game (How will you pay for it). While I dislike that line of argument for reasons that have been retrod here ad nauseum, it's been clear all along that Biden wasnt going to kneecap any of the candidates.
If anything, the only two times that happened in the whole primary process was when Gabbard went hard after Harris in the second debate, and when Warren went after Bloomberg. I'm hoping there isnt a third.
Biden is reaching out to progressives. He literally did it tonight, and will continue you to do so. Not with a particular proposal, but that kind of stuff will come later. The actual worst thing progressives can do in this race now (and I'm one of them) is to pick up our ball and go home. In a 2 party system, it doesnt pay to be the 3rd party. Bernie pulled Clinton to the left in 2016. Bernie/Warren can pull Biden left in 2020.
For the record, as I've stated for quite a while - of the serious contenders: Biden and Sanders were my last two picks (Technically, Bloomberg was my actual least favorite in the race - but that was a flash in the pan). I dont like EITHER of my choices all that much, but I sure as hell know either one would be better than Trump for what I believe-in.
This is how primaries go. Sanders was my 3rd choice, Biden maybe my 3rd to last. The thing is, YOUR particular candidate rarely ever wins in a primary. Primaries are full of shattered dreams (ask Ted Kennedy's supporters in 1980, or Howard Dean's supporter's in 2004). To be invested in a primary process is to almost guarantee you'll only not be disappointed once every 20 years or so. This one stings because Bernie was right on the precipice and it's been building for 4 years. Don't think for a second I don't feel for the young volunteers who have been busting their ass for this. I wish it had gone different for them. But it didn't. They had a socialist on the verge of being a major party nominee for President in America in 2020. That isn't nothing.
Yeah Biden is better than Trump but the bar is incredibly low. Just like don't do the absolute worst thing you possibly could to sell us out to the elite corporate interests like Trump does and don't be a pathological liar and you are better than Trump. That's it.
Still, yeah right now I'm not feeling it. Biden stands for nothing. And he's been pushed down our throats like Hillary was. Not happy about it and incredibly disappointed in fellow Americans who voted for him.
Will there be a debate? I guess there will be.
Trump might have skipped out on debating Bernie because he'd lose on issues but Trump can probably run circles around Biden. But it does not really matter. Why? Trump lies so much so any points he makes don't matter even if they are things grounded in reality because you can't trust anything he says anyway.
Biden isn't really trying to be anything. He is running on, "let's go back to normal". I have doubts that can work, but the numbers tonight mean something. It shows that the hatred of Hillary personally and (let's be honest) misogyny generally ABSOLUTELY cost her large sections of the vote. The bet is that if Biden can even gain a FRACTION of it back by being a generally well-liked white guy, Trump's margin in the swing states disappears. Are they right?? Who knows??
It is nothing. The narrative will be "sOcIALIzm was defeated again as it should be because moderates are the way to go and that's why we can never have healthcare or guaranteed sick leave and we need more tax cuts and more oil and gas investment and privatized school choice and less regulation and less safety nets and we need to cut social security and Medicare and " etc etc etc
You would agree that Bernie Sanders and AOC specifically have moved the default positions of the party significantly to the left, wouldn't you?? Medicare for All is out, but you can push Biden towards a public option.
*Democrat* voters are rejecting socialism. That says a lot.
See here we go. The story will be 'people like dying from no healthcare, thank God we don't have Socialism guuuhhhhh.' Dumbasses are dying on the streets but hey at least there is no socialism!
lets cut social security too because that's socialism.
It's mainstream media. It's propaganda. Corporate nonsense polluting minds and getting people to vote against their own interests. Neither Trump nor Biden want to help you. They both are in corporate pockets. (Well Trump's also deep in his own pockets.)
So the propaganda worked and we have extremely ill informed voters who believe what they see on the mainstream news. We can't have change or what every other first world country has figured out. Congrats you played yourself America.
Go pick yourself up by your bootstraps and have fun dying of the same old same old.
Maybe people do not want socialism or socialist policies. If we don't respect the vote whether it be national or party then we don't respect the voter. That's more akin to Fascism, a very slippery slope.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/coronavirus-testing-delays.html#click=https://t.co/nePKKu0ZvV
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1237562508258340869.html
And can anyone even fathom this happening here??:
On the bright side... lower economic activity means the planet gets to breathe, with air pollution down across China the coronavirus is also saving some lives...
Actually, the Democratic Socialist propaganda did *not* work and we have voters who are informed enough to know that what Sanders was pushing would be bad for everyone. If someone happens to enjoy being completely subservient to the Federal Government and totally dependent upon them for everything as if they were a small child then perhaps that person should exercise their freedom to move to a place where that exists. No one is forcing anyone to remain in a place where the majority of people have different political views.
Biden's delegate count has risen to 787 while Sanders has 647--the victory he was holding in his hands two weeks ago has slipped right through his fingers. Meanwhile, lately Joe Biden's average speech time is about 7 mintues, at least when he isn't getting into verbal arguments with auto workers and asking them if they want to step outside.
I do agree that Sanders would have performed much better in debates against Trump because Bernie won't fall for Trump's crap. All Trump has to do is mention Hunter and Joe will get upset and wreck himself on the debate stage.
There has been at least one case of someone receiving chemical burns from buying an unlabeled, homemade "hand sanitizer" from a 7-11 store. If it doesn't have a label then you don't know what might be in it--don't buy it. (it was probably undiluted bleach--sodium hypochlorite)
Medicare is the the most popular insurance we have. Social security is extremely popular. Having government health insurance is not fascism. It seems you too have fallen for propaganda. Ask anyone in the UK if they'd prefer privatized healthcare over the NHS or ask the same question in any country. The amount of delusion here is sad.
The Coronavirus is exposing how ridiculous this whole for profit system is. Pence says the major insurance companies will waive co-pays for Coronavirus testing. Whoopty do, why do we even have co-pays at all? Under Medicare for All we wouldn't have co-pays ever and it wouldn't be special and extraordinary for them to be waived. In every other country medical bankruptcy is not a thing but here where medical reasons are the leading cause of bankruptcies (66% of all bankruptcies). This isn't a thing in other countries. And you can leave your job and get a new one without worrying "gee what about my health insurance".
Why aren't our tax dollars being used to keep us alive? That's a bare minimum responsibility of government. We should not ever be farting around protecting corporate interests in the middle east.
People here are so brainwashed by propaganda they're saying government provided health insurance this is fascism.
How's that? So you're saying every other country that has this figured out is fascism. Well respectfully your gut instinct that this is fascism is dead wrong just like the 45,000 Americans who die every year from no health insurance.
No, that is *your* responsibility, not theirs. Do you think they can do a better job at it than you can? If so, then why should you be allowed to make medical decisions about your own care? If the government's job is to keep you alive then should not they also dictate your diet, to make sure you are eating correctly? Shouldn't they also dictate that you not engage in any activity which might unnecessarily put your life at risk? It's for your own good, after all.
You should of course take care of yourself but healthcare should be available for you too. You pay taxes, you should get something back.
Yes. The obesity epidemic in America is a thing in America moreso than other countries because we don't do enough to ensure we have health food regulations. Other countries better regulate their food quality and not everything is loaded with sugar. Great point.
Dictate? No you should be allowed to self remove yourself from the gene pool if you insist. Should the government maybe warn you that hey that's dangerous before you do it? Yes.
Your turn
Should the government ban lead paint and dangerous chemicals? Should they ban children from drinking alcohol and cigarettes? Should there be child labor laws?
Now...as far as poor food choices are concerned....I work part-time at a grocery store and I cannot tell you how many people come in then make the first items they put into their baskets carbonated beverages and cookies. If they are choosing poorly then we should not have to pay for their poor choices--their health problems are theirs, not ours.
No one mentioned disabled people at all, so "ridiculous comment is ridiculous" and it will not be addressed.
Weinstein was sentenced to 23 years in New York, which is long enough that he will die in prison from illness and/or old age. That sentence is only for New York, though--the California cases are still pending.
Protests in Raleigh after police shot a man who was running from the scene where reports of a man waving a gun were made. The suspect, who was running, still had the gun on him and refused to drop it after repeated commands to drop the weapon. Why are they protesting? Because the guy had a gun and was running from the police? No, they are probably protesting because they are paying attention to false or incomplete social media narratives.
Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-SC) suggests that Democrats cancel any remaining primaries and just give Biden the nomination now, a sentiment which was mirrored by James Carville. Sanders is planning on making a statement at 1p EST...which is only a few minutes from now.
edit/add: He isn't dropping out, but will keep pushing on.
No disagreements here. Not sure what you were going for as far as disabled people, do we not agree there that they should be look after? Are you implying that they are obese? If so are there more here than anywhere else?
This is what the establishment wants and has wanted since they all decided to gang up on Bernie and they have roped the 'left wing' media to go against the actual leftist candidate. They support the center right candidate - Biden.
And James Carville, a talking head who should long ago have been put to pasture, has been a vocal anti-Bernite and was dancing on Bernie's 'grave' last night and said now Biden should announce his slogan for the general election that he is "Joe Biden for change". Lool.
This comes AFTER JAMES CARVILLE HAS BEEN MELTING DOWN ABOUT THE CHANGE CANDIDATE AND DOING EVERYTHING HE CAN TO STOP THE GUY. lol.. Hypocrisy much? Carville was like yeah voters want change, Biden for change... lol. Hypocrisy...
Biden has been quoted as telling a room full of elites that "nothing will fundamentally change" if he's elected. Now Biden's supposed to pretend to be the change candidate.
Dictate that you not engage in any activity which might put your life at risk such as driving over the speed limit while intoxicated and not wearing a seatbelt?
I am pretty sure they already do that. They also ‘encourage’ people to not smoke by taxing tobacco heavily, making sure adverse health warnings are clearly labeled on packaging and that these products aren’t advertised to children.
Other narcotics are also illegal and just having them in your possession can land you in jail in America. One drug that’s illegal doesn’t have any recorded fatalities associated with it, so if you are afraid of over reach... the government is already over reaching!
And yes, government should dictate or at least encourage a better diet. It’s how the food pyramid first started (too bad the sugar industry made sure ‘fat’ was the bad guy when in reality it wasn’t) and the FDA makes sure food that does hit the market doesn’t make us sick or kill us.
But god forbid the government to actually pay for your broken neck that you sustained from the drunk driver. It’s better to go after his estate and get them to pay for everything, having to go to civil court to pay lawyers to hopefully get the money you’ve already spent back on medical care.
Biden isn’t center right. Don’t let your biases get in the way of the truth.
He is center left. Always has been, always will be. When the party was further right, he was still center left within its confines. That’s still true today.
Twenty minutes after this happened, the White House recalled all their witnesses for an immediate "emergency meeting". I truly, 100% believe this outbreak is the worst-case scenario under Trump. What did Adam Schiff say in his closing remarks during impeachment?? That Trump would ALWAYS put his personal interests over the well-being of the American people, and that everyone in that room knew it. It was true then, it's true now. But now it's deadly serious.
I have been advocating for decriminalization of chemical substances for years.
I was in elementary school when the food pyramid was being pushed in the 1970s. We studied and had a class assignment where we were supposed to create a healthy menu (soup or salad, entree, dessert, etc); if I recall, I went with fish, steamed vegetables, and rice (I didn't know about couscous when I was 8)--it was Mediterranean.
After my grandfather died--he was killed by a drunk driver--my grandmother did not receive any money from the government; his life insurance policy and the settlement from the other person's insurance company almost made her a millionaire (she would not actually become one until the lawyer and the accountant managed to sell his business).
*************
Sanders will hang on through the national convention.