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What the hell have you people done to my beloved game?!

24567

Comments

  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,757
    Oh, I have so many more lists. So many more...

    Yes, the EEs come with their own hefty set of problems and hindrances. But they also have many improvements and advantages over the originals.

    Whether you think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages is subjective and up to you to decide. I personally play the EEs more often than I play vanilla or modded vanilla, even though there are a lot of things in the EEs that bother me. A lot.

    lefreutmegamike15Kurona
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,318
    @Grond0 @CamDawg You are right. I should have searched for screenshots before running my mouth.

    Check facts before posting on the Internet? Nah, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way.

    (Yes, I'm teasing--I'm wrong about stuff like this all the time.)

    Grond0ronaldoTresset
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,327
    carfax19 wrote: »
    I'm surprised to see people defending BG UI. It was crammed into 640x480, did not scale, had a terrible illegible font (they tried to patch it in ToSC, but people still used the IWD one), they didn't even have a space for the _Rest_ button! (and no shortcut, too). There was no item comparison, items had stupid with a _pisssh_ sound unfurling tooltips, mages had only one weapon slot, there was no XP bar, etc. etc.

    alot of people don't actually play vanilla bg 1. before ee it was always tutu with a few exceptions.

    StummvonBordwehrKuronaThacoBell
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 860
    Tbh I can live with bad UI (I played Daggerfall!); what really makes it hard to go back to vanilla BG1 instead of Tutu or BGT is the obnoxiously slow walking speed.

    StummvonBordwehrmegamike15ChroniclerThacoBell
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 604
    Kurona wrote: »
    Tbh I can live with bad UI (I played Daggerfall!); what really makes it hard to go back to vanilla BG1 instead of Tutu or BGT is the obnoxiously slow walking speed.

    If I recall there's some way around that. I think you increase the frame rate of the game, and that helps. Problem is that speeds up the whole game, not just walking, so now you're walking at normal speed and everything else is happening super fast.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,327
    Kurona wrote: »
    Tbh I can live with bad UI (I played Daggerfall!); what really makes it hard to go back to vanilla BG1 instead of Tutu or BGT is the obnoxiously slow walking speed.

    anyone that defends that slow walking speed is lying to themselves. it makes vanilla bg 1 unplayable.

    sarevok57ThacoBell
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,226
    Kurona wrote: »
    You actually liked the hideous gray stone interface of the original?

    I do. I like it better than BGII's, and better than the EE's.

    @Magnus_Grelich : @Kilivitz is working on a mod that will restore the stony UI to the Enhanced Editions, and @skellytz on a mod that fixes a ton of audio bugs (that have been there since day 1 and also affect the originals) on top of restoring a number of sounds from BG (including UI sounds.) So eventually you should be able to retrieve the look and sound you're after while enjoying the bug fixes and engine improvements in the Enhanced Editions.

    AdulKilivitz
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,757
    edited February 15
    I'm also in the slower walking is better camp.

    Not necessarily for exploration, mind you. It's just that BG1's combat element works better and has more tactics involved when combatants move at their original speeds and creatures and characters have their original, larger selection circle sizes.

    The combat in vanilla BG1 more heavily relies on melee/tank positioning and body blocking than BG2 does, and it was originally developed for a slower combat pace. I think it loses some of its appeal when that pace is selectively sped up.

    Kilivitzsmady3realshemp
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,654
    I might also prefer a bit slower walking while I explore a trappy dungeon, since with the resolution change, its easy to miss traps. Maybe the range is shorter too, but I suspect its more the resolution.

  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 860
    edited February 15
    Adul wrote: »
    The combat in vanilla BG1 more heavily relies on melee/tank positioning and body blocking than BG2 does, and it was originally developed for a slower combat pace. I think it loses some of its appeal when that pace is selectively sped up.
    I really can't agree with this - all it does is making archery even more overpowered because enemies take forever before reaching you.

    @AndreaColombo Interesting to see people who actually prefer BG1 UI though. BG2 was almost universally considered an improvement in this regard so I wonder what you like about it. Is it simply a matter of aesthetics? I'm not mocking your opinion in any way, just genuinely curious.

    ThacoBellOlvynChuru
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,757
    edited February 15
    Kurona wrote: »
    Adul wrote: »
    The combat in vanilla BG1 more heavily relies on melee/tank positioning and body blocking than BG2 does, and it was originally developed for a slower combat pace. I think it loses some of its appeal when that pace is selectively sped up.
    I really can't agree with this - all it does is making archery even more overpowered because enemies take forever before reaching you.

    Yes, it makes ranged attacks more effective, on both sides. Enemy archers and spellcasters are also more dangerous in vanilla.

    It's, of course, up to you and your tastes which approach you prefer. I prefer vanilla, because when testing both systems one after the other, I found that vanilla had more nuance involved in a typical fight. Your fighters/tanks advance more slowly, which makes it more crucial to get them into position as soon as possible. I found the vanilla fights more 'chunky' and dangerous. Which is what I like.

    Post edited by Adul on
    StummvonBordwehrKilivitzsmady3
  • SteveRogers41SteveRogers41 Member Posts: 30
    What the enhanced editions need is that fast-forward mode from the Pillars of Eternity games so we can speed up the movement. I don't mind taking my time while exploring a new area, but when I'm having to walk from one corner to another in an area I've been to 15 times, that can get kind of boring. Sometimes I cast a Haste spell on the party to avoid the wait.

    Adulbob_veng
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 3,875
    It's interesting how much some ppl notice and care about GUI. I can't even tell you what color it is, the background theme and I didn't even know there were differences between the games (does SoD have a different GUI from BG1?). I did play some BG back in the day but has primarily played since the EE's came out and though I have noticed now I have to click different tabs, I only ever really use the "level up" button and the inventory. My eyes filter out anything in the background and only see the numbers, everything else is ineffecient background white noise I ignore.

    I guess this makes me the odd one out, but I really coulnd't care less as long as I have my hotkeys mapped out and correctly displayed figures for AC, Thac0 etc.

    AdulBalrog99
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,757
    edited February 15
    @Skatan I'm on the other end of the UI-detail-noticing spectrum, and I can tell you it's no cakewalk. :tongue:

    But to answer your question, yes pretty much all versions of Baldur's Gate have different UIs with varying styles, features, and issues. The following game versions all feature different interfaces:
    • Vanilla BG1
    • Vanilla BG2
    • BG:EE v1.X
    • BGII:EE v1.X
    • BG:EE v2.X (without SoD)
    • BG:EE v2.X (with SoD)
    • BGII:EE v2.X

    And that's only the unmodded versions of Baldur's Gate.

    Skatan
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,205
    CamDawg wrote: »
    (Yes, I'm teasing--I'm wrong about stuff like this all the time.)

    @CamDawg As far as the BG games go, I don't think I have ever seen you wrong about engine functionality...

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 3,875
    Adul wrote: »
    @Skatan I'm on the other end of the UI-detail-noticing spectrum, and I can tell you it's no cakewalk. :tongue:

    I can imagine! (though not at all relate). Thanks for the info, mate.

    Adul
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,226
    edited February 15
    Kurona wrote: »
    @AndreaColombo Interesting to see people who actually prefer BG1 UI though. BG2 was almost universally considered an improvement in this regard so I wonder what you like about it. Is it simply a matter of aesthetics? I'm not mocking your opinion in any way, just genuinely curious.

    Aesthetics. Stone and gold were in the official Forgotten Realms logo at the time, and BG faithfully turned it into a UI that looked good and just screamed "AD&D Forgotten Realms adventures!" Like @subtledoctor said, it fit the atmosphere of the game very well. Add some rose-tint from my nostalgic glasses, and there goes my favorite UI in any Infinity Engine game (second would be @erephine 's take on the BGII UI.)

    KilivitzKuronaAdul
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,339
    That font (if you can call it that) was truly terrible though...

    KuronaThacoBell
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,125
    That font (if you can call it that) was truly terrible though...

    i thought it was aight

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 1,865
    I actually really like the old BG1 font. It felt really awesome to kill a Battle Horror and see that 4-digit experience number in a big font.

    sarevok57AndreaColomboAdul
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,226
    If you mean the font BG used for dialog (which was contained in REALMS.BAM, if I'm not mistaken), I loved it. I looked for it left and right but it seems to be a custom font created for the game, and therefore impossible to retrieve elsewhere. I'd love to be able to restore it in the Enhanced Editions.

    Adul
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 860
    It's really interesting to see how opinions differ on the aesthetics. Ofc these things are always subjective in the end.

    When I first played BG I was like 11-12 and no prior D&D background so I just thought the gray stone was ugly and the font hard to read. Switching to BG2 was a huge improvement and at that age the whole thematic appropriateness (is that a word?) was really the last thing on my mind.

    I've played games with significantly more mismatched UI over the years, such as Final Fantasy XII and its out-of-place futuristic interface for instance. Maybe if I had been older when the BG games came out my opinion would differ. Who knows?

    As for the various incarnations of the EE UI I find myself favoring the blue/gold of the 1.3 versions over the current white/wood. And I really dislike the SoD black. @lefreut interface mods allow for the blue/gold everywhere and I'm pretty happy with it.

    AdulStummvonBordwehrThacoBell
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,226
    Interesting indeed. Much as I’m not a fan of any of the EE UIs, SoD would be my favorite in terms of looks (though I wouldn’t want to use it because it’s new and it doesn’t kick me in the nostalgias.)

    It certainly is a good thing that the EEs made their UI more flexibly moddable, seeing how different people have wildly different tastes :)

    Grond0AdulKuronasarevok57
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,339
    If you mean the font BG used for dialog (which was contained in REALMS.BAM, if I'm not mistaken), I loved it. I looked for it left and right but it seems to be a custom font created for the game, and therefore impossible to retrieve elsewhere. I'd love to be able to restore it in the Enhanced Editions.

    I mean the title of each screen. Like, I know this is the spell book screen, but I have no idea what's written up there...
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/ol/1ashc742pqab.jpg

    SkatanThacoBell
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 3,875
    Not sure if you are joking or not, but it says "Mage book" @subtledoctor.

    Rik_Kirtaniya
  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 772
    @Skatan A lot of younger people are just no longer used to reading handwritten text. And the ability to read cursive is slowly becoming almost rare.

    Skatan
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 4,604
    @Skatan A lot of younger people are just no longer used to reading handwritten text.

    Not sure about that - the text looks a bit like one of the tests you get on websites to confirm that you are not a robot B).

    SkatanTorgrimmersubtledoctor
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