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The North Remembers

VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 563
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I just want to start by saying that I support Beamdog as a company, and as a unit of people working toward the goal of making (or enhancing) great games. Even if the newly announced projects and news appeal to me with the most granular levels of excitement, I still love the company and am thankful for the time I've spent on this board, interacting with the lot of you, beta testing, sharing stories, etc. Even if I have been less active than I would otherwise like to be, but I digress.

That being said, I still cannot help but to feel the slightest bit stung by one piece of news in particular--and since some co-workers of mine finally managed to get me to watch the entirety of Game of Thrones in less than a month in preparation for Season 8 (I won a bet out of it, it was worth it, don't judge!), I felt it would be fitting to create a little, subtle image to characterize my feels in ways that words perhaps cannot. It's nothing special, just the one of the default Icewind Dale II backgrounds found all over the internet, but with the Great Oak icon from Icewind Dale 1 overlayed in the center with an obvious Game of Thrones reference tacked on as well.

By no means should this be taken as some kind of protest or whatever against Beamdog for moving on and away from my favorite of the Infinity Engine games, but I just want it to be known that...

"The North Remembers"

Or at least, one over emotional fan does.

Post edited by Varwulf on
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Comments

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,814
    I love the background graphic, but I have no idea by want you mean by it. Are you wishing that Beamdog would make an Icewind Dale 2 EE, or Icewind Dale 3?

  • VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 563
    edited February 2019
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    I love the background graphic, but I have no idea by want you mean by it. Are you wishing that Beamdog would make an Icewind Dale 2 EE, or Icewind Dale 3?

    Thanks for the compliment. I'm sadly not much of an artist so I can only do so much :)

    Beamdog announced recently that Icewind Dale 2: Enhanced Edition is no longer going to happen, in fact, that no more Enhanced Editions will be happening. I was hoping for at a minimum, a complete Enhancement of all of the Infinity Engine games.

    Balrog99
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,502
    That's not news about IWD2. It was never going to happen, because the source code has been lost. That unfortunate fact has been known for a long time.

    Balrog99ArtonaSkatan
  • VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 563
    That's not news about IWD2. It was never going to happen, because the source code has been lost. That unfortunate fact has been known for a long time.

    Despite the fact that only recently Trent said that it wasn't going to happen (for real) and the news for the last year or so was that they were looking for the source code.

  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 852
    I think everybody has been looking for the source code - and for quite some time.

    I think that everybody are praying for a miracle and that the source code manifests it self. Beamdog has done theirs, and now have to be realistic - and tell the costumers the sad and ugly truth:
    IWD2:ee will sadly never be

    Varwulf
  • VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 563
    I think everybody has been looking for the source code - and for quite some time.

    I think that everybody are praying for a miracle and that the source code manifests it self. Beamdog has done theirs, and now have to be realistic - and tell the costumers the sad and ugly truth:
    IWD2:ee will sadly never be

    Yeah, for sure, I mean after so long the logical side of my brain knew that it was likely not going to happen, but the admission still feels like a bit of a stab to the back to me.

    Surely, it is out there. Seems strange to me that IWD1's could be found just fine, but not IWD2's. Someone must have it.

    Also, there were plenty of "negative" comments in the livestream about how the leads that did come up seemed "not very promising" which is honest and all, but it does feel like for a long while now Beamdog didn't seem that positive about it happening--again, makes sense, but it still stings, and I had to speak my mind about it.

    Plus, I needed an excuse to make this graphic because it popped in my head and it was too good not to do. IMO.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,054
    im actually quite surprised as to how many people like IWD 2, to be perfectly honest ( and this is just my most humblest of opinions ) it wasn't that good of a game, infact i would even says its balls terrible, just some of the game mechanics and design choices are just out to lunch, and i've even played the game semi recently to see if i was just crazy or not

    but with that being said, perhaps this was your first IE game, and you are looking at it with nostalgia goggles or perhaps you just love the setting, or the music ( when there actually IS music, the IWDs are notoriously for just being silent, which kind of annoys me, they have some good music tracks, but they just dont like playing them that much ) or perhaps it could be that it uses "3rd edition rules" ( which in my opinion for a PC game are just a terrible ruleset, great for PnP, terrible for PC, just like how 2nd edition is great for PC but terrible for PnP )

    but anyways i would be very interested in an IWD 3, if i had to choose between IWD 2 EE or IWD 3, there is no contest on the matter and i would go with IWD 3 even if IWD 3 was destined to be trash, at least it would have been fresh trash heh :)

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    Can someone who works with IT explain to me how something like the core of a product (the source code of a game) can simply disappear?

    I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I'm just trying to understand how this can happen.

    Thanks in advance.

  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 677
    Raduziel wrote: »
    Can someone who works with IT explain to me how something like the core of a product (the source code of a game) can simply disappear?

    I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I'm just trying to understand how this can happen.

    Thanks in advance.

    I think poor maintenance of storage and blunders with the archives of backups are to blame for this. From some of the stories I've heard the quality control behind it wasn't that good. Some got lost in fires, some probably just forgotten or misplaced during a companies bankruptcy or absorption into a bigger corporation.

    There are probably a variety of reasons and I'm sure you'll get a better answer.

    Raduziel
  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,462
    batoor wrote: »
    Raduziel wrote: »
    Can someone who works with IT explain to me how something like the core of a product (the source code of a game) can simply disappear?

    I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I'm just trying to understand how this can happen.

    Thanks in advance.

    I think poor maintenance of storage and blunders with the archives of backups are to blame for this. From some of the stories I've heard the quality control behind it wasn't that good. Some got lost in fires, some probably just forgotten or misplaced during a companies bankruptcy or absorption into a bigger corporation.

    There are probably a variety of reasons and I'm sure you'll get a better answer.

    Also back in the days nobody imagine that there will be a need for hd remaster or console port. So they were not careful with the backups.

    megamike15ThacoBelldeltagoRaduziel
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,139
    yeah back then they did not think to back up the files. this is alot more common with Japanese developed games. for example the reason final fantasy 3 did not get a wonder swan color port was due to lost source code.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,210
    Black Isle going belly up soon afterwards didn’t help either.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,054
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @sarevok57 IWD2 offered the best roleplaying experience out of all the IE games. A huge wealth of races to go with the already large number of classes from previous games. It also had the best spellbook, with tons of awesome/cool spells. On top of this, you race plays a massive role in how people react to your caracter and even quest options! Playing a drow or half orc? You'll need to convince the town guards you AREN'T from the goblinoid army currently besieging the town. Orc, drow, or dwarf? You can translate goblin messages and learn what kind of enemies to expect in the next attack. Aasimar? People are gonna trust you more easily. Paladin? You can get you very own moonblade! Run into a society of fanatic rangers? If you have a druid or paladin? Diplomacy is much easier! There are TONS of options and variables to make each journey you own.

    really? from what i can recall the role play options were mostly done in the town of targos, and basically after that, no one cared really all that much what your race was

    but then again, at best over the 17 or so years this game has been out, i've only played it like 10-12 times at best, so i haven't really explored all the races to see what interactions you could have

    Skatan
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,814
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @sarevok57 IWD2 offered the best roleplaying experience out of all the IE games. A huge wealth of races to go with the already large number of classes from previous games. It also had the best spellbook, with tons of awesome/cool spells. On top of this, you race plays a massive role in how people react to your caracter and even quest options! Playing a drow or half orc? You'll need to convince the town guards you AREN'T from the goblinoid army currently besieging the town. Orc, drow, or dwarf? You can translate goblin messages and learn what kind of enemies to expect in the next attack. Aasimar? People are gonna trust you more easily. Paladin? You can get you very own moonblade! Run into a society of fanatic rangers? If you have a druid or paladin? Diplomacy is much easier! There are TONS of options and variables to make each journey you own.

    really? from what i can recall the role play options were mostly done in the town of targos, and basically after that, no one cared really all that much what your race was

    but then again, at best over the 17 or so years this game has been out, i've only played it like 10-12 times at best, so i haven't really explored all the races to see what interactions you could have

    The level of detail takes a serious drop-off after the Targos chapters. I replayed saving Targos many, many times with different parties but rarely took any of them much past the Aurilites. After surviving those epic battles in the town, foiling the planned destruction of a strategic bridge, and then chasing the goblin, bugbear and orc hordes back ro their fortress and defeating them in detail, it seemed rather anti-climatic afterwards.

    sarevok57Skatan
  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 8,322
    edited February 2019
    @sarevok57
    I am playing IWD2 in these days. So far (I am in Chapter 5), my drow cleric is still recognized as drow and I get specific replies from characters. The game does offer all the roleplay possibilites mentioned by @ThacoBell and it is great :)

    Post edited by Aedan on
    ThacoBellsarevok57Varwulf
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,297
    My favorite class/race combo for IWD2 was a half-orc paladin.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,502
    As I've said several times before, where IWD2 fails for me is in its puzzle dungeons. Every time I start a run, I have lots of fun with Targos and the first few maps after, and then I completely lose interest during the tedium of running back and forth around the ice maze looking for levers and secret doors.

    The first time I played when it was released, (this was before the internet and easy to find solutions and walkthroughs), I got totally stuck in one of the late game dungeons and couldn't finish the game. I found out later I had to do everything in a certain order and find a few MacGuffins that I hadn't found, and then I was to have been transported back in time where I would have had to do it all AGAIN. The whole solution I read, a year or two later, left me rolling my eyes and shaking my head.

    I've had a bad taste in my mouth about IWD 2 ever since.

    I gave it a second chance a couple of years ago, and ran into that ice dungeon frustration and tedium I was talking about. Puzzle dungeons are just not my thing. IWD2 is not a game for me because of that.

    sarevok57
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,297
    Full disclosure: I LOVE IWD2. But the Ice Fortress can go die in a fire. Worst part of the game BY FAR.

    BelgarathMTHStummvonBordwehrBalrog99Ludwig_II
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,054
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Full disclosure: I LOVE IWD2. But the Ice Fortress can go die in a fire. Worst part of the game BY FAR.

    nah, chapter 5 is the worst BY FAR and can die in a fire, that garbage yuan-ti puzzle and then that crap weasel time warp thing, bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

    Balrog99
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,814
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Full disclosure: I LOVE IWD2. But the Ice Fortress can go die in a fire. Worst part of the game BY FAR.

    nah, chapter 5 is the worst BY FAR and can die in a fire, that garbage yuan-ti puzzle and then that crap weasel time warp thing, bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

    Running around in circles in Lonelywood was pretty boring too. Then top it off with the lamest dragon in all of IE and you have a whole stretch of the game that is as tedious as doing my taxes...

    StummvonBordwehrsarevok57BelgarathMTH
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 852
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Full disclosure: I LOVE IWD2. But the Ice Fortress can go die in a fire. Worst part of the game BY FAR.

    nah, chapter 5 is the worst BY FAR and can die in a fire, that garbage yuan-ti puzzle and then that crap weasel time warp thing, bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

    Running around in circles in Lonelywood was pretty boring too. Then top it off with the lamest dragon in all of IE and you have a whole stretch of the game that is as tedious as doing my taxes...

    Lonelywood is a sure winner. I dont mind a good puzzle, and did the EOB3 forrest puzzle back in the days (which must have been the reference), but that darn forrest.

    Didnt have internet at home back then, so I had to go to work on a saturday just to consult gamebanshees walktrough - including the travel time, it was 4 hours down the drain....

    Otherwise a great game.

    Varwulf
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,297
    I'll respectfully disagree with you guys. Lonely wood had enough clues that navigating it wasn't painful for me. The time warp thing was a fun concept, but the execution wasn't completely there, mostly the very end was a little frustrating. Only the Ice palace really confused/stumped me.

    Varwulf
  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 8,322
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Full disclosure: I LOVE IWD2. But the Ice Fortress can go die in a fire. Worst part of the game BY FAR.

    Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! I love the Ice Temple! Maybe I am the only one, but my love is enough!!!!!

    StummvonBordwehrsarevok57ThacoBellVarwulf
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,054
    Aedan wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Full disclosure: I LOVE IWD2. But the Ice Fortress can go die in a fire. Worst part of the game BY FAR.

    Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! I love the Ice Temple! Maybe I am the only one, but my love is enough!!!!!

    even i don't think the ice temple is that bad

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,020
    To this day I have never played IWD2. I actually like 3E, though am not a big fan of NVN. I've thought about purchasing the game many times. Perhaps I should try it at least once since I am no longer playing BG.

    AedanThacoBell
  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 8,322
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,502
    @Skatan , I'd definitely say it's worth trying at least once. The game is beautifully rendered - it was the pinnacle of Infinity Engine development. The prelude and the first act are filled with beautiful scenery, and several epic tactical battles. The third edition character building is a lot of fun to play around with, too.

    Then come the puzzles, and the wandering around in circles. I'd really like IWD2 if it weren't for that.

    SkatanThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,297
    @Skatan Its cheap on gog and that version works on modern systems. BE prepared for no widescrren though.

    Skatan
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,210
    IIRC Lonely Wood was one of the only places the survival skill came in handy and didn’t just offer flavour text.

    It was also a great way of reflecting of getting lost in the woods. I can see the tediousness behind it, but I thought it was one of the clever things the game offered, second probably to getting a large XP bonus if you snuck passed the goblins instead of slaughtering them all.

    ThacoBell
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