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3-5 bugs per minute

I'm fighting
the succubus and the alu-fiends in Watcher's Keep

[BUG 1] Aerie gets hit (presumably by a poisoned weapon) and after that she keeps getting poison damage each round. However, her record screen says nothing about her being poisoned.

[BUG 2] Aerie puts on the Periapt of proof against poison, thus becoming immune to poisoning. After that she doesn't get any more poison damage. However, the combat log still says every round "Alu-fiend: Aerie was immune to my damage" like the poisoning was still there somehow. Plus, she keeps complaining like she was still receiving damage.

[BUG 3] Worst of all, when she tries to cast a spell, her spell gets disrupted by the non existent damage.

[BUG 4]My mage is protected by Spell deflection. An Alu-fiend casts Charm person at him. The spell bypasses Spell deflection and my mage gets charmed.

[BUG 5] The log says my mage is "Dire charmed", which suggests the spell used was probably Dire charm rather than Charm person.

Depending on how you count, that's between 3 and 5 bugs (allowing for the possibility that there is a weird but valid explanation for one of them, and that it can be argued that 2 and 3 are actually the same bug). All of that happens in less than one minute of real time, which gives us a count of somewhere between three and five bugs per minute.


  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 806
    edited May 2019
    There is a widespread misconception that once you understand the reason why a bug is happening, then the bug is no longer a bug. That's not really the case. All bugs can be eventually understood. Typically once you understand why a bug is happening you have done 90% of the work required to fix it. But it will continue to be a bug until you actually fix it. Say your web browser has a bug that allows a hacker to take control of your computer. After a while the developer of your web browser says "don't worry, we already understand the origin of the problem". Well, great for them, but that's not gonna make you very happy. You don't want them to UNDERSTAND the problem. You want them to FIX it.

    In the case at hand (2), the description of the periapt of proof against poison says "Equipped abilities: Immunity to poison". Still, Aerie complains about the non existent poison damage ("zero damage" is just a fancy way of saying "no damage") and her movement, spell casting, etc., is disrupted by the damage she is NOT taking. That is most definitely NOT being immune to poison. You have investigated the bug, and managed to understand its origin in detail, when it happens and when it doesn't, etc. That's great work and it brings you very close to a fix. However, the fact that you understand it doesn't mean it stops being a bug.

    1. It is not just cosmetic, it's very much functional. Since I didn't see any poisoning effects in the record screen I thought "all clear, let's move on to cast a defensive spell". But since the poisoning was actually there, the casting of the defensive spell gets disrupted by the poison damage. It happens to be the last defensive spell Aerie had available, so now, due to this bug, she's defenceless. Definitely not cosmetic.
    2. See above.
    3. There's also the misconception that if a bug has existed and has been known for a very long time, then somehow at some point it just ceases to be a bug. Here you have some examples of bugs that took more than thirty years to fix. Old doesn't mean fixed.
    semiticgod wrote: »
    They use a unique special ability which strikes as a level zero spell
    From the description of Spell deflection: "All spells that target the caster are deflected". Also, see above.
    Apart from that, according to @kjeron, when the combat log says "casts", like in this case, it "means it was a legitimate, proper spell casting". Since this not "a legitimate, proper spell casting", but rather "a unique special ability", I guess this rises the bug count to 6.
    5. What @kjeron said.

    All in all, this looks like a case of 6 BPM (Bugs Per Minute).

    Post edited by Alonso on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited May 2019
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    form an other thread

    kjeron wrote: »
    "Cast" means it was a legitimate/proper spell casting.
    Otherwise it was:
    • an Innate ability
    • a contingency/sequencer activated spell
    • AI cheating (Forcing wizard/priest spells without memorization or interruption).
    • ??? (there may be others)

    if the alu-fiend charm is an innate ability and not a spell then:
    1. there is a bug, in the report screen that tells "cast", not in the innate ability ignoring the spell deflection
    2. @kjeron was wrong saying what i quote now, and i am sure is the thing that @Alonso was referring at.

  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 2,051
    It's currently implemented as a level 0 wizard spell; code SPWI929 and SPWI930. Succubi also have level 0 wizard spells for their energy drain and going ethereal.

    There are a few other "level 0 spells", but none of them are ordinary abilities that might be used by a monster. Only succubi have their abilities handled this way; there are some other level zero monster abilities, but they're innate like a dragon's wing buffet.

    In order to match original intent of what the monster should be, those succubus abilities should be made into innate abilities.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • AlonsoAlonso Member Posts: 806
    @OlvynChuru: The title of this thread is very tongue-in-cheek. It's just meant to be a humorous reminder that there are still some bugs around. But the actual number is much lower, of course. Sometimes I complete a full gaming session without finding any bugs.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    Fair enough I guess, but that will not make any functional difference in gameplay, so... what would be the point?
    the point could be that a player that understands what each thing in the combat log mean, but don't use modding tools to look at the creature files or the spells could have a better information.
    to have all the innate abilities but the ones of the succubus coded in a certain way can be misleading as "cast" don't shows up in the log for other innate abilities.

    by the way i agree with you about the fact that it would be a waste of resources, but not because it can not be useful for some players, only because the players that want to use that level of finesse in their game play and don't use modding tools to gather information are very few, and other things like the way the simulacrum retains the spells have precedence as it affects more players.

    in an hypothetical perfect world where the developers have infinite time to spend to make a game perfect i would like to have both the things fixed, in the real word the simulacrum and other issues imho have precedence.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

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