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Beamdog Update: July 2019

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Comments

  • TheBurpingGirlTheBurpingGirl Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 2
    In the blog post on March 2019 they said the pathfinding fixes will not be a part of the 2.6 update:

    "We’ve made significant improvements to pathfinding and collision in the console ports of our Infinity Engine games. Luke hopes to back-port these improvements to PC, but they’re not a part of the 2.6 patch for Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition, Baldur’s Gate: Siege of Dragonspear, Baldur’s Gate II: Enhanced Edition, and Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition (which is still in the works)."

    Have they changed their plan?

    MERLANCE
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 710
    No plan survives contact with the enemy Google.

    MERLANCElost1
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,839
    The 2.6 patch is no longer linked to the DCA DLC.

    I won't reply to a part that calls the UI a "broken crap".

    gugulug5000kanisathaStummvonBordwehr
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 710
    Are there still plans to incorporate the UI update? There was a pretty strong call from Beamdog to invest users in the creative discussions, and a lot of people invested a lot of time in discussing stuff and making potential mockups, with the promise that Beamdog would be looking into those threads and would be making a proper UI for the IE games, instead of the allegedly broken UI that we have today unless we choose to install a decent UI mod.

    AdulRaduzielAndreaColomboRavenslight
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,349
    I won't reply to a part that calls the UI a "broken crap".

    I'm glad Beamdog respects the opinions of their customers.

    It's been pointed out that there are lots and lots of issues with the post-2.0 UI... Beamdog even asked us to give us our input on improvements to said UI.

    AdulRaduziellefreutRavenslight
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,839
    edited July 2019
    Beamdog respects the opinions of their customers.

    Here is what Beamdog replied in February about the UI requests:

    We received a number of questions about UI for the Infinity Engine Enhanced Editions games and our plans regarding it going forward. Now that the console releases are announced, we can share that we’ve been doing extensive updates to our UI system that could very possibly end up paying dividends for the PC versions into the future.



    However, I don't like when a question that is being asked already implies something about an answer, @Thels .

    gugulug5000MrSextonkanisathaStummvonBordwehr
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    You can't blame someone for calling a duck a duck. You can prove it is not a duck but, let's say, a goose.

    You also can't blame someone for calling a broken crap UI a broken crap UI. You can try to prove that it is a nice and/or solid UI.

    I've being studying some new stuff and using Beamdog's GDPR issue as a case of how to poorly deal with a crisis but I would never forecast such a bad response to a costumer complaint - even by Beamdog's standards.

    Congratulations, that's a whole new level of lack of professionalism from this company that even me - who trends to expect the worst from Beamdog and deals with crisis management as profession - didn't see coming.

    Pro tip (literally): you don't restrain yourself from answering an instastified costumer because he/she expressed bluntly about the product that is generating this stress.

    Especially under the circumstances that involves Beamdog, the UI and the community. Like 3 years-old reported issues and a whole section of the forum that was created to hear us and then put aside (two if we count the Feature Request, but that's a whole different story).

    lefreut
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,839
    edited July 2019
    Nobody was put aside. I can guarantee you that all the people involved into the IE games at Beamdog got numerous analysis reports about actual bug reports, feature requests, concerns and propositions stated there (in the UI subforum).

    @Raduziel I don't restrain myself from answering an unsatisfied customer and have never done that. I've been replying to such people for 3+ years. Always, no matter the circumstances.

    However, when a question asked is asked in the way the person asking it implies something we all - the person and I - read clearly, there's no sense in replying. I've never been against blunt expressions, critical reviews, etc. But it doesn't work nice when this review is being included into a question for the company.

  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,349
    @JuliusBorisov Perhaps I didn't make myself clear...

    I would love to see a proper UI update, and if the Console edition provides us with one, then that would be a nice thing. Hopefully, though, the Console edition being the push behind this UI update hopefully doesn't mean it'll be an UI opdated for Controllers, rather than keyboard and mouse.

    However, we've already been informed that 2.6 will NOT be the UI update patch, but that there will be later patches. Recently however, you yourself posted the following:
    Don't read too much into this, please. I really ask you.

    But while Beamdog indeed confirmed more than once that 2.6 wouldn't be the last patch, that happened in 2018 during livestreams regarding the old content of the 2.6 patch (the one that was ready at the end of the year before the build process became broken).

    That makes it sound like the 2.6 would potentially be the last patch. Since that was your most recent post on the topic, one could assume that that post would overrule the earlier information from Februari.

    AdullefreutRavenslight
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,839
    @Thels Thank you, I appreciate the change.

    I don't know if the 2.6 patch will include a UI update (the console improvements-related). I quoted the February blog because that was a direct reply to never ending questions about UI and complains the subforum discussions had been put aside. That reply still stands, and I've just shared that the team is well aware of everything every customer said about the UI on this forum.

    At this point, it's easier to just wait till the patch drops to learn what it brings.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,839
    edited July 2019
    Totally understand that. I have been passing those questions during these 3 years. The February blog was the last reply to those questions.

    Beamdog would know what it is that they're currently working on. I hope there will be opportunities in the future to provide another (updated) reply to the UI requests (& all other IE requests) after the 2.6 patch is released. At this time, though, I can't provide that reply.

  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,036
    While fixing bugs/broken issues is one thing, several of us pointed out in the UI discussion of past that we like the new UI over the old one and would not want to have the UI reverted to any form of the old version.

    RaduzielThacoBellJuliusBorisov
  • beobeo Member Posts: 135
    edited July 2019
    Concerning UI issues, Beamdog should just buy/license Pecca's Dragonspear UI++ mod. (joking) :)

    Really looking forward to 2.6, updates here are about as frequent as Christmass (perhaps even less so) :D

  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,462
    Beamdog would know what it is that they're currently working on. I hope there will be opportunities in the future to provide another (updated) reply to the UI requests (& all other IE requests) after the 2.6 patch is released. At this time, though, I can't provide that reply.

    This is the same answer since 2.0 was released. UI changes won't be in the next patch but maybe in a future one.

    While this is understandable for UI requests, a lot of posts are about UI bugs. And it's not normal that these bugs are still not fixed after all these years.

    Adul
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,839
    edited July 2019
    Get a glimpse of pathfinding improvements from the console video:

    Ludwig_IIStummvonBordwehrSkatan
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,000
    Is it by design that several characters at around 0:39 minute mark visibly occupy the same or overlapping positions while moving?

    RaduzielAndreaColombo
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,822
    Is Moonwalking now officially a feature?

    RaduzielAndreaColombotbone1
  • SenSayNyuSenSayNyu Member Posts: 19
    edited July 2019
    I understand that @JuliusBorisov don't have direct answers from devs and my english knowledge is lacking but the more info we get about 2.6 patch the more I'm confused.

    Is there any pathfinding improvements at all in this patch? If DLC on hold now and there will be no major UI fixes whats the point patch anyway? Will it be simultaneous for all platforms or gated? When it will be released? Q3? Q4?

    Lastly, from longstanding point of view I understand that there is no financial reason to support IE games after a few years anyway. Releasing engine source is out of the possibility that's for sure. Most realistic scenario would be releasing one or two patches with fixing all critical bugs and exernalizing all realistically possible parts of engine for modding community to thrive for many years. Even if it takes 2-3 years of part time working it's still better scenario than abandoning the IE platform completely.

    Post edited by SenSayNyu on
    Prince_Raymond
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,036
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Thels wrote: »
    @kanisatha Have you checked out the actual UI discussion threads? It wasn't about "Let's go back to the old UI!". It was about fixing and improving the existing UI.

    I participated in that thread section heavily. There were a TON of posts saying the UI should just be changed back to the old.

    Also, calling the new UI "Broken Crap" is incredibly disengenuous. I'm really fond of the current ui, and think its a solid step forward over the previous versions.

    Yeah, @Thels, my experience was similar to @ThacoBell's. I also posted a lot on that thread but got tired of all the posts saying go back to the old UI and the hell with anyone who might have a different preference.

    @lefreut, whether a change is bad is often entirely subjective. Yes the example you gave of the dialog box is one with which I agree, but many of the other changes that others see as "bad" I (strongly) disagree.

  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,000
    edited July 2019
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Yes the example you gave of the dialog box is one with which I agree, but many of the other changes that others see as "bad" I (strongly) disagree.

    Even if you disregard all subjective opinions and ignore all the questionable design decisions, the 2.5 UI still has an astonishing number of bugs and instances of diminished usability as well as missing functionality.

    lefreutAndreaColomboCrevsDaak
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,442
    @lefreut So, all the bugs are entirely cosmetic? Clickables work, all the needed information is visible. Yeah, no. A handful of cosmetic bugs does not equal "broken." This is entirely intellectually dishonest.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    @ThacoBell

    No.

    What Beamdog did with the weapons' proficiency screen makes a lot of kit-related mods incompatible with other mods (now we have to mod the base class instead of just giving allowance to the kit).

    The aforementioned dialogue screen is as cosmetic as the pathfinding. We can work our way around it but makes the game annoying as hell.

    I'm not a "UI-person". Pretty much everything that is broken wasn't noticed for me until pointed out but there is a matter of principles here.

    I'm sure @lefreut and @Adul can point out more things that are not merely cosmetic, those are just the ones that affects me directly (as a modder and as a player respectively).

    Prince_RaymondAdullefreut
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