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Beamdog Update: July 2019

135

Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,689
    edited July 2019
    @Adul @Raduziel No, the UI STILL WORKS. IT FUNCTIONS. CALLING IT BROKEN IS STRAIGHT UP FALSE. Everything I can see in your list is that some things don't work the way YOU WANT THEM TO. But they still WORK. Nothing is actually broken.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,689
    @Adul "No, they don't work the way they're supposed to. There's a difference."

    No, they don't work the way that YOU want them to. There's a big differnce.

    "3. Non-functional; not functioning properly."

    Good thing the UI DOES function. Your definition doesn't help you. Or do you think that you are somehow the one person who decides what the UI is supposed to do? Nevermind anyone else who like the current UI. We don't matter, right?

    StummvonBordwehrTresset
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,689
    @Raduziel Words bolded for emphasis, not volume. That's what exclamation points are for.

    Which two bugs were those? I didn't see anything in your comment that made something in-game un-workable.

    BelegCuthalion
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 892
    I also had a hard time seeing the bugs in all of this. But then again I have never given UI much thought either.

    I did a lot of BWS setups some 10-15 years ago. 2-3 times I did a full new BWS with downloades mods from Kerzenburg. Every single time, and I mean every single time I did a setup the UI changed. I never deliberately downloaded UI mods, but they seemed a part of the process I figured.

    Point is that the beauty and functionality of the UI is in the eye of the beholder (pun intended). Many people have an opinion and some a very strong opinion. And the interface have been tweaked as changed for all I know. I like content, you favour UI as well - fine, I respect your opinion and I will not raise my voice against you that think it’s broken. But Imho I think the UI is the best and most solid ever.

  • Spellsword82Spellsword82 Member Posts: 15
    Icewind Dale EE v2.5.17 has randomly appeared back on the Google Play store.

    No sign of BG II EE though...

    Adul
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,962
    Icewind Dale EE v2.5.17 has randomly appeared back on the Google Play store.

    No sign of BG II EE though...

    Both games are back. https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1082961/#Comment_1082961

    AdulStummvonBordwehrlolien
  • Spellsword82Spellsword82 Member Posts: 15
    Icewind Dale EE v2.5.17 has randomly appeared back on the Google Play store.

    No sign of BG II EE though...

    Both games are back. https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1082961/#Comment_1082961

    Thanks bro, just in time for my holidays!

    JuliusBorisov
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,689
    @Adul "The rest, however, are legit bugs and usability issues."

    Here's the thing. I never denied that there were bugs. I've even supported your requests to get those bugs fixed in the past. My issue specific issue is with the language you and other users have relied on to get your point atcross. "Broken Garbage." The UI functions. If something performs the function for which it was designed, it is not broken. A refridgerator whose light has burnt out, but still keeps food cold is not "broken". Languages have defined rules and usage for a reason. If everyone used words with different meanings, communication would be impossible.

    JuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehrronaldo
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,326
    I'll be honest, @ThacoBell: That comes across as ironic from someone who used all-caps and subsequently called it "bold." Bold and all-caps are completely different concepts and, while bold can indeed be used for emphasis, all-caps is widely recognized as the written equivalent of shouting. If we're going to debate semantics and stress how important linguistic choices are, your choice to use all-caps was uncalled for—and, while your intent might have been to emphasize rather than to shout, such was the end result just the same.

    AdullefreutRaduzielrealshemp
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    edited July 2019
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Adul "The rest, however, are legit bugs and usability issues."

    Here's the thing. I never denied that there were bugs. I've even supported your requests to get those bugs fixed in the past. My issue specific issue is with the language you and other users have relied on to get your point atcross. "Broken Garbage." The UI functions. If something performs the function for which it was designed, it is not broken. A refridgerator whose light has burnt out, but still keeps food cold is not "broken". Languages have defined rules and usage for a reason. If everyone used words with different meanings, communication would be impossible.

    Different people do use the same words with different meanings. Some of the meanings are very close, some of them are farther apart, but they do differ from person to person. That's how language works. Meanings fluctuate and adapt between people and cultures.

    "The UI is broken" as a statement is no more unspecific than "the UI functions" is. Unlike a fridge, the UI doesn't have one primary function, instead, it has many different ones. How many of those functions need to be compromised, and to what extent, before you'd accept the "broken" as a general adjective for the UI? And how many of the functions need to be working, and to what specifications, for it to be correctly labeled "functional", in your opinion? Whatever your answer is to those questions, it's going to be arbitrary, because there's no objective standard to what state a complex system needs to operate in to be considered "broken" or "functional".

    AndreaColombolefreutRavenslightRaduziel
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,689
    @AndreaColombo Here's a tip when reading my comments. I use actual grammar and rules. If you want to read slang or common poor usage into it, that's all on you. I'm not responsible for other people not using grammar properly.

    realshemp
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,326
    @ThacoBell - Formatting and grammar are different things. Like bold and all-caps. Since it is widely recognized that all-caps is tantamount to shouting, I'd say it's on you if you deliberately choose not to follow a convention that everybody else is.

    That said, seeing how I don't really have a horse in this race, this is where the argument ends as far as I'm concerned.

    AdullefreutRaduziel
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    What @ThacoBell keeps saying in this thread is correct - calling something "a broken crap" is an opinion, not a fact.

    Nobody argued that it wasn't an opinion. Well, I guess ThacoBell did, in a roundabout way.

    For the record: "the UI is broken" is an opinion, not a fact. Hope that helps dispel the confusion.
    UI has issues, it has problems, and this has been acknowledged by our official replies. We replied that we read the feedback, the actual feature requests and threads. Nothing has been set aside. Instead, Luke replied that the feedback had been considered while the team had worked on the console versions. That said, we're not ready to provide an exact answer - something I understand the people in this thread want - whether or when we will tweak the UI in the PC version. We replied: "that could very possibly end up paying dividends for the PC versions into the future", and at this moment I can't add anything else to this.

    I don't want answers, I want fixes. I've wanted fixes for the past 3 years but Beamdog hasn't delivered them. At this point it's fair to say that Beamdog doesn't listen, because a considerable portion of the community have wanted UI fixes for 3 years, and Beamdog hasn't delivered.

    To be clear, it's not your fault, your communications have always been clear on this, and I'm sure you've delivered our concerns to the rest of the team. You're doing a great job, as far as I'm concerned. It's Beamdog's fault for not delivering.

    lefreutPrince_RaymondRavenslight
  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,462
    What @ThacoBell keeps saying in this thread is correct - calling something "a broken crap" is an opinion, not a fact. The language, of course, is also a problem. This is why I didn't support the comment using that phrase (especially as a part of a question), and still don't. However, there are a lot of people in this thread who agreed with the comment - I guess, because they agree with that opinion. But it doesn't make the opinion a true fact.

    I was accused I don't listen, I don't take into account critics. Moreover, Beamdog was accused of that. With this, I can't agree as well.

    UI has issues, it has problems, and this has been acknowledged by our official replies. We replied that we read the feedback, the actual feature requests and threads. Nothing has been set aside. Instead, Luke replied that the feedback had been considered while the team had worked on the console versions. That said, we're not ready to provide an exact answer - something I understand the people in this thread want - whether or when we will tweak the UI in the PC version. We replied: "that could very possibly end up paying dividends for the PC versions into the future", and at this moment I can't add anything else to this.

    You are still missing the point. We don't care about tweaking the UI. We have UI modding for this and we already have made much much better than Beamdog can ever do.

    What we care about is when are you going to fix the bugs.

    AdulPrince_Raymondthemazingness
  • themazingnessthemazingness Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 682
    edited July 2019
    lefreut wrote: »
    What we care about is when are you going to fix the bugs.

    Yeah, the language thing is clearly a rabbit hole that people are going to just disagree on since language is so nuanced. It seems pretty fruitless to fault people for giving legitimate feedback based on language fallacies (not commenting on expecting people to keep things respectful, just on all the arguments based on language nuances).

    The fact remains, people want things, and they aren't coming because resources are focused elsewhere. The lack of ETAs or even knowing if issues will be handled or not isn't helping. I'd call for more transparency, but I get the feeling that just isn't an option. I think all people can do is keep voicing what they want to see change and hope that they finally get to it (whether they currently have plans to or not).

    AdulFilipse
  • Sar_YehudahSar_Yehudah Member Posts: 135
    Have they changed their plan?

    Yes. The entire plan for the 2.6 update has been reevaluated.
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    When will Beamdog close the Soultaker Plot hole they created?

    As @deltago said: "This will be addressed in the next Wild Surge magazine. Out soonish."
    Luke93 wrote: »
    @JuliusBorisov

    Do you perhaps know if the 2.6 patch will bring some new capabilities for modding the Infinity Engine (e.g., new/expanded opcodes, new/expanded script triggers/actions and the like)? Thanks in advance.

    Not sure. At this point, it's easier to just wait till the patch drops.
    Thels wrote: »
    Nice to finally get some news out for 2.6, even though there's no indication when it's actually coming, other than 'soonish'.

    Still not sure why this needed to be hush-hushed.

    Also, it doesn't mention in any way if the DLC will still be released or not. I kinda assumed it wouldn't, due to the controversy about it, but it remains unclear.

    According to WotC, the DCA is on hold. So is the DLC.
    Will we ever get new IE games? Will we ever get a toolset to let us make out own campaigns with IE? PLEASE!

    In a few blog posts and articles, we've mentioned the team wants to go forward. I doubt there're resources to create such a toolset.

    The community can make their own tools. Just release the source code.

    AdulRaduziel
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,326
    The only problem is that, as far as I'm aware, the engine still belongs to Bioware and Bioware belong to ... well, you know.

    AdulleeuxPrince_RaymondCrevsDaak
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,839
    If worse comes to worst they could still make a IwD II Demake in RPG Maker.

    Gotta love me some old school pixels. :wink:

    Adul
  • Prince_RaymondPrince_Raymond Member Posts: 338
    Adul wrote: »
    The community can make their own tools. Just release the source code.

    If they did that, it would be the greatest redemption arc ever seen. It would up Darth Vader, Prince Zuko and Jaime Lannister in one fell swoop.

    1. Darth Vader
    2. Prince Zuko
    3. Jamie Lannister

    Jamie: And, you'll get all three. A Lannister always-

    Bronn: Don't say it. Don't foxtrotting say it.

    Thank you for reading, and happy gaming to all.

    AdulRavenslight
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    I hope House Beamdog didn't choose "A Beamdog Always Fixes Their Bugs" as their House Words.

    lefreutKamigoroshiRaduziel
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,839
    Adul wrote: »
    I hope House Beamdog didn't choose "A Beamdog Always Fixes Their Bugs" as their House Words.

    Hush, you! Else a certain D&D showrunner pair might use this for another HBO abomination. :anguished:

    Adul
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,689
    Adul wrote: »
    I hope House Beamdog didn't choose "A Beamdog Always Fixes Their Bugs" as their House Words.

    Well, they'd have to stop patching the games first for that be ironic.

    Timbo0o0o0
  • majbermajber Member Posts: 51
    But when this patch will be released??

    Adul
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