Which flavour mage should I choose?
Permidion_Stark
Member Posts: 4,861
I have always been a bit rubbish at using magic in Baldur's Gate and my player characters have generally been paladins who walk up to enemies and whack them in the face or thieves who sneak up on enemies and stab them in the back. However, I have decided that it is time to try to get my head around the magic system and so I am planning to do a run with a mage as my PC. But what flavour of mage should I choose?
My character is going to be human, I will be playing with a small party (just me and Imoen most of the time - other companions to be recruited when needed). Also, because I like to rely on the abilities of my characters rather than the items they acquire, I will be imposing a 'no consumables' rule on myself: no potions (except antidotes), no scrolls (except for scribing) and no wands (or necklaces of missiles etc). This means I will need to be able to cast Protection from Petrification in case in run into a basilisk - so being a Transumter is out.
I will be using the Ring of Wizardry.
So what do you recommend? Straight mage? Specialist mage? Sorcerer?
My character is going to be human, I will be playing with a small party (just me and Imoen most of the time - other companions to be recruited when needed). Also, because I like to rely on the abilities of my characters rather than the items they acquire, I will be imposing a 'no consumables' rule on myself: no potions (except antidotes), no scrolls (except for scribing) and no wands (or necklaces of missiles etc). This means I will need to be able to cast Protection from Petrification in case in run into a basilisk - so being a Transumter is out.
I will be using the Ring of Wizardry.
So what do you recommend? Straight mage? Specialist mage? Sorcerer?
Post edited by Permidion_Stark on
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Comments
Otherwise, if you go with 2 mages, they will be fighting for spells in their books and of course you will give preference to yourself, so you will end up with one good mage and another one living on left-overs.
BUT, I advise you to study best spells for sorc, a bit. Im sure you can find out more on the forum, somewhere. Perhaps someone will write them for you here. I might also do it, but bit later.
I'm starting in BG1 so Imoen will be a thief at the start. I may dual her later but I will probably keep her as a thief at least until I get to SoD (assuming I survive that long and don't succumb to restartitis).
In a tabletop game the sorcerer's limited spellbook would be a significant issue, but that barely matters in a game like BG except in rare instances (and in those you can simply purchase the occasional scroll).
You know what? My suggestion is fighter 2 dualed to mage. That way you can try all possible spells and fire arrows or bolts when you're outta spells.
Yeah, but the thing is - it doesnt matter. If you count every good bg1 spell that is no longer so good anymore in bg2 then you might aswell start the game from bg2
Im just saying that experience of a playthrough can be a good one throughout the entire saga, no matter if you pick a web or not.
In bg2 you will have higher level spells and you wont be bothered if you have web or not as long as you have blur and mirror image, resist fear.
Acid arrow would still be picked in bg1 anyway. The rest is whatever...
Knock for solo, glitterdust, invisibility are good, but can live without them.
I dont think its going to be such a disaster if you pick web, enjoy using it in bg1 and then just move on to other spells
Well, I mentioned reading a sorcerer spell selection guide first because it helps beginers feel happier with playing a sorcerer. In my opinion it does matter since optimizing your character may or may not be part of one's fun.
Edit: In BGEE there is Xan, though and he's already an Enchanter. The best specialist mages are alteady covered with Xan, Dynaheir, Neera, Quayle and Xzar.
it seems to me, that some poeple are missing your points
poster above for example.
as i see it with these restrictions the only possible way would be a mage. no specialist, no sorcerer etc.
you can use almost all spells and the ones you can't use, are the ones which are specialised. for that you've got the spare NPC's which you're using like underwear, if i understand that correctly.
I have to say though, that imposing a no-wand run the first time you play mage is brave. It will take time until you have enough spell slots to be able to both buff yourself, debuff/disable enemies and still have slots left to actually damage enemies. Standing around plinking with a sling and waiting for a roll20 can be tedious after a while (for me, after about 1 minute then I restart, hehe). Sure, Imoen can do decent damage with a bow and arrows of acid, but it will take some time until you can afford a decent chunk of those. It's your choice of course, I'm just merely giving my POV.
Remember to pick another alignment than Imoen so you're not fighting over the robe of the archmagi if/when you dual her to mage. Evil is probably easiest to get (kill Baeloth at level 5), but maybe you don't want to play evil. Playing only two mages most of the time means you actually have to lower your AC a bit for all those arrows making that robe important (plus boots and belt). If you have a tank, that is a non-issue (at least on vanilla). Kobold commandos critting you is always an interresting experience when you have low HP and no helmet
A rabbit familiar can help you find traps if you dual Imoen and just run around with 2 mages, though I rarely use them myself so not sure how valid its low Find Traps skill is in practice.
Yes, basically I want to learn how to use magic effectively in the games. In BG1 it seems to me you can pretty much get by without really knowing what you are doing but by the time you get to BG2 and the high level magic starts flying around I don't have a clue what is going on so I just get Jaheira to cast insect plague and hope for the best.
I plan to do as much as I can with just Imoen and me but I will probably team up with Kagain or Kivan when there is fighting to be done.
That's good advice on the question of alignment. I was planning to be Neutral Good or Chaotic Good so I could have a Pseudo Dragon or a Fairy Dragon as my familiar. I can't face being Neutral and wandering round with a rabbit because for some reason that just seems silly. To be honest I am in two minds about whether to take a familiar at all. It always feels to me like a way of cheating yourself some extra hit points.
skull trap for example. activated at a range of 20 ft for a radius of 30 ft. but you don't see anything, no circles or other indicators. what you see would be the dmg numbers in your log but thats all, which makes it hard to remember where you have set your trap.
for web you see at least a "wave" for indicating it's range.
another problem are spells which are double edged swords, like dispel magic.
you're all buffed up and then you got an enemy where you need to use this spell and poof, all your buffs are gone. in mid battle a real headache.
don't know if its intended or a positioning problem though.
multiple situations with multiple solutions.
an ogre mage who's invisible, a "purge" sure is great, but not so much when imoen is on standby in stealth for a backstab.
or a lightning bolt in a dungeon. it bounces on walls, for multiple targets sure it's great, not so much though if you're in it's way...
If you choose a sorceror, I'd go with a relaxed rule on scrolls: nothing of a level you can't cast. For a sorceror, scrolls are how you handle less commonly needed spell effects like Find Familiar or Protection from Petrification.
For a specialist mage, one of the key benefits is -2 to enemy saves against spells in your school. The spells that benefit from that by school and level, organized using the four pairs of opposed schools:
Abjuration and Alteration
Alteration:
Level 1: Burning Hands, Color Spray.
Level 2: -
Level 3: Slow.
Level 4: Resilient Sphere, Polymorph Other.
Level 5: -
Level 6: Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone.
Level 7: Sphere of Chaos.
Level 8: -
Level 9: -
Not the most impressive list. Only Slow is a spell I really lean on that would benefit. Of course, there are plenty of other useful and practically irreplaceable effects in the Alteration school, including Stoneskin. Abjuration and Alteration are opposed schools. Both have really important effects in them that you can't get from other schools and neither have all that much that gains from the save improvement. Don't specialize in either, unless you want to make things hard on yourself.
Conjuration and Divination
Level 1: Grease.
Level 2: Clitterdust.
Level 3: Flame Arrow.
Level 4: -
Level 5: -
Level 6: -
Level 7: Prismatic Spray.
Level 8: Symbol: Death, Symbol: Fear, Symbol:Stun.
Level 9: -
Divination: None. Magic resistance effects a few things, but most of the school are absolute effects that always work.
Another pair of opposed schools. Unlike abjuration, divination is a school you can afford to give up. Its main combat use is to counter enemy illusions and invisibility, and you can do that with a priest or a thief as well. Conjuration isn't the most impressive in the saving throw gains, but a conjurer is a strong option throughout the game. This specialty is also available in the person of Edwin, who adds his personal amulet for even more spells in a way no PC could match.
Enchantment and Evocation
Level 1: Charm Person, Sleep.
Level 2: Ray of Enfeeblement.
Level 3: Dire Charm, Hold Person.
Level 4: Confusion, Emotion: Hopelessness.
Level 5: Chaos, Domination, Feeblemind, Hold Monster.
Level 6-9: -
Evocation:
Level 1: Chromatic Orb.
Level 2: Stinking Cloud, Web.
Level 3: Fireball, Lightning Bolt.
Level 4: -
Level 5: Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Sunfire.
Level 6: Chain Lightning.
Level 7: Delayed Blast Fireball.
Level 8: Bigby's Clenched Fist, Incendiary Cloud.
Level 9: Bigby's Crushing Hand.
Another pair of opposed schools, and these two both gain a lot from specialization. Enchantment drops off precipitously in BG2, as there are no enchantment spells of level 6 and up - but I find that the level 4 and 5 spells of the school hold value for a long time. Giving up enchantment costs you a lot of powerful save-or-lose effects early on, and Greater Malison to make save-or-lose effects stick later. Giving up evocation costs you a lot of AoE damage effects (only partly mitigated by wands) and spell sequencers (in the unmodded game). Both of these specialties are available as NPCs, in the form of Xan and Dynaheir respectively.
Illusion and Necromancy
Level 1: Blindness, Spook.
Level 2: Deafness.
Level 3-9: -
Necromancy:
Level 1: Chill Touch.
Level 2: Ghoul Touch, Horror.
Level 3: Hold Undead, Skull Trap.
Level 4: Contagion.
Level 5: -
Level 6: -
Level 7: Control Undead, Finger of Death.
Level 8: Horrid Wilting.
Level 9: Wail of the Banshee.
The final pair of opposed schools. Illusion doesn't gain much from the specialization, so the main reason to play an illusionist is if you're a gnome. As an excluded school, it represents a lot of defensive options as well as the high-level clone effects that can multiply your spell power. It's also the only specialization that allows for multiclass characters, as a gnome. Necromancy has a nice selection of offensive spells that benefit from specialization, but nothing truly irreplaceable. Xzar is available for recruitment as a necromancer, and gnome multiclasses Quayle and Jan are illusionists.
The primary benefit of a specialist mage, that of +1 spell slot per spell level, is a big deal. It increases your arsenal by about a third in BG1, weighted toward your highest level spells. Being able to use two of your highest spell level instead of one when you first get them is a huge deal. While some D&D versions force you to spend that extra spell slot on a spell of your school, BG/BG2 doesn't except at character creation. After all, it's easy to have a spellbook that doesn't have anything of a given level and school. It's even forced later on, with some schools lacking spells entirely at certain levels.
Wild mages also get that +1 spell slot boost, at the cost of 5% of spells surging with unpredictable results - usually a failure of some sort. You can mitigate that later, but in BG1 you're pretty much just gambling with every cast. Spending your full arsenal of spells, for an endgame BG1 character, will get you about one wild surge per day - not too high a price to pay for five more spells cast.
Still, it was meant to be a learning experience. Back to Candlekeep to roll a new character ...
An imp would've saved you from Tarnesh. Those little familiars are more than just a few bonus hit-points when you're low level!
Or recruit Viconia and / or Kivan as helpers and dismiss them afterwards.
I did wonder about doing that but I was worried that I would basically end up playing as a fighter and forget the whole mage bit. I also figure I would level very slowly.
You would indeed level very slowly but since you have three classes with different xp level requirements it doesn't seem so bad. As a solo Charmame it's by the far the best to take all the way through ToB. You get a ridiculous number of HLA's! With a party it's more lackluster since you seem more like a support character. Somebody will always be better than you at what you're doing (except maybe thief skills depending on your party). I'd go elf rather than half-elf though for the extra dexterity, thief bonuses, charm/sleep reaistance and bow/sword bonuses.
I think Dragon Disciple is nice, as a less powerful sorcerer. Can elves be DDs?
And a human DD gets the cool wizard beard (if that matters to you).
I rarely find regen necessary on a sorcerer, and much prefer a slightly better out of the gate dart user. Still not what one would call good, but vs casters that aren't using uninterruptible spells a dart throwing elf is actually quite effective. Tarnesh being a breeze is a rare treat I find.
because sometimes when you choose a "bad" spell you have to find creative ways of making it useful and this can have a whole new look on how you play your play throughs
so my advice if you ever want to try a sorcerer? DON'T look at a sorcerer spell guide, and just choose what you think you would like, and when it comes time that it seems like the spell is becoming obsolete, find a creative way to make it work again
you can be amazed on how spells that seemed "lame" or "useless" can actually be quite good when used properly