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Who don't you like?

13

Comments

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 976
    Looking it up. Seniyad is in fact the leader of Jaheira's sect of druids, which opposes the shadow druids.

    As an archdruid he should probably also be significantly more challenging than he is in gameplay terms too.

    Dhariuslolien
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 262
    Zaxares wrote: »
    Has anybody tried casting Detect Evil on Aldeth? That would probably settle the issue once and for all. XD
    ...
    I personally think that Aldeth is Lawful Neutral.
    According to the game files... he is. You were right on.

    QuartzChroniclerBlackraven
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 976
    Detect Evil doesn't detect guilt or innocence of any particular crime. Only if the guy is generally "Evil" in dungeons and dragons terms.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,454
    edited September 6
    Chronicler wrote: »
    There's little practical benefit to any of his hunting. He's a noble hunting for sport, not sustenance.

    The question is whether he gets his jollies by hunting his fellow man, or merely the local wildlife. Even in a fantasy setting where killing "evil" races is often treated as acceptable regardless of circumstance, any goodly hero can be expected to draw the line at killing your fellow human being solely for the joy of killing them.

    Seriously, NOTHING in game indicates he is hunting people for sport. I have no idea where you are getting this idea. I'm also not sure where you're getting the diea that he wants blood. Nowhere does he ask you to kill anyone. He jsut wants you stop the druids from murdering him and his friends. Like, do you really think Shadow Druids are at all capable of being the innocent party?

    @jmerry Seniyad is still willing to murder an old "friend" for the crime of wanting all the information before letting him murder a hunter. This does not reflect well on Seniyad. "Sorry Jaheira, we are totally fellow druids and know each otehr well, but you are asking too many questions. Gotta kill you know."

    Balrog99
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,830
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Seriously, NOTHING in game indicates he is hunting people for sport. I have no idea where you are getting this idea. I'm also not sure where you're getting the idea that he wants blood. Nowhere does he ask you to kill anyone. He just wants you stop the druids from murdering him and his friends.
    muh headcanon, I guess.

    @ThacoBell is right.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 976
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    There's little practical benefit to any of his hunting. He's a noble hunting for sport, not sustenance.

    The question is whether he gets his jollies by hunting his fellow man, or merely the local wildlife. Even in a fantasy setting where killing "evil" races is often treated as acceptable regardless of circumstance, any goodly hero can be expected to draw the line at killing your fellow human being solely for the joy of killing them.

    Seriously, NOTHING in game indicates he is hunting people for sport. I have no idea where you are getting this idea. I'm also not sure where you're getting the diea that he wants blood. Nowhere does he ask you to kill anyone. He jsut wants you stop the druids from murdering him and his friends. Like, do you really think Shadow Druids are at all capable of being the innocent party

    We clearly both just think we read something different in this quest. Neither of us have produced any screenshots yet so we're both just working with memory.

    It's been confirmed that they're not shadow druids so I don't know why you're still hung up on that. That much a simple trip to the wiki can verify.

    I could very well be wrong but you seem to be getting incredibly frustrated that I haven't immediately accepted your recollection is superior to mine on nothing more than your say so.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 976
    ThacoBell wrote: »

    @jmerry Seniyad is still willing to murder an old "friend" for the crime of wanting all the information before letting him murder a hunter. This does not reflect well on Seniyad. "Sorry Jaheira, we are totally fellow druids and know each otehr well, but you are asking too many questions. Gotta kill you know."

    https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Seniyad

    As of the 2.5 patch, if you have Jaheira in your party they will recognize eachother, and that will allow you to reach a peaceful resolution where nobody gets killed. This seems to be content taken from the Unfinished Business Mod, which refurbishes content that was in the code, but left out of of the playable game, because it was not ready for release.

    This seems to be what @jmerry is referring to when they say Jaheira will greet him as an old friend. In the version of the game where they greet eachother as old friends, it sounds like only if the player pushes for violence, will they find it.

    It's up to you whether you accept this interaction as "canon" or not but I'm just making sure everybody's on the same page here.

    SCARY_WIZARD
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,454
    Chronicler wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    There's little practical benefit to any of his hunting. He's a noble hunting for sport, not sustenance.

    The question is whether he gets his jollies by hunting his fellow man, or merely the local wildlife. Even in a fantasy setting where killing "evil" races is often treated as acceptable regardless of circumstance, any goodly hero can be expected to draw the line at killing your fellow human being solely for the joy of killing them.

    Seriously, NOTHING in game indicates he is hunting people for sport. I have no idea where you are getting this idea. I'm also not sure where you're getting the diea that he wants blood. Nowhere does he ask you to kill anyone. He jsut wants you stop the druids from murdering him and his friends. Like, do you really think Shadow Druids are at all capable of being the innocent party

    We clearly both just think we read something different in this quest. Neither of us have produced any screenshots yet so we're both just working with memory.

    It's been confirmed that they're not shadow druids so I don't know why you're still hung up on that. That much a simple trip to the wiki can verify.

    I could very well be wrong but you seem to be getting incredibly frustrated that I haven't immediately accepted your recollection is superior to mine on nothing more than your say so.

    Not sure where you're getting the idea that I'm frustrated. I jsut finished a BG1 run recently and am just telling you what I saw. I wasn't aware of the changes made to that quest in 2.5 though. I haven't taken Jaheira through the cloakwood on this patch.

    Quartz
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 976
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    There's little practical benefit to any of his hunting. He's a noble hunting for sport, not sustenance.

    The question is whether he gets his jollies by hunting his fellow man, or merely the local wildlife. Even in a fantasy setting where killing "evil" races is often treated as acceptable regardless of circumstance, any goodly hero can be expected to draw the line at killing your fellow human being solely for the joy of killing them.

    Seriously, NOTHING in game indicates he is hunting people for sport. I have no idea where you are getting this idea. I'm also not sure where you're getting the diea that he wants blood. Nowhere does he ask you to kill anyone. He jsut wants you stop the druids from murdering him and his friends. Like, do you really think Shadow Druids are at all capable of being the innocent party

    We clearly both just think we read something different in this quest. Neither of us have produced any screenshots yet so we're both just working with memory.

    It's been confirmed that they're not shadow druids so I don't know why you're still hung up on that. That much a simple trip to the wiki can verify.

    I could very well be wrong but you seem to be getting incredibly frustrated that I haven't immediately accepted your recollection is superior to mine on nothing more than your say so.

    Not sure where you're getting the idea that I'm frustrated. I jsut finished a BG1 run recently and am just telling you what I saw. I wasn't aware of the changes made to that quest in 2.5 though. I haven't taken Jaheira through the cloakwood on this patch.

    Fair enough. It's hard to read tone in text sometimes.

    If you've just replayed recently then you're probably right. It's been a while since I did the quest right now. Gonna be paying special attention to it on my next go.

    ThacoBell
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 4,891
    For what it's worth, I've never sided with the druids in that encounter, even the first time I played it out. The druids just strike me as being 'holier than thou' douchebags...

    Permidion_StarkThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,454
    @Chronicler "Fair enough. It's hard to read tone in text sometimes."

    I totally get it. I'm of the opinion that getting tone out short forums posts is basically impossible.

    Quartz
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 4,891
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Chronicler "Fair enough. It's hard to read tone in text sometimes."

    I totally get it. I'm of the opinion that getting tone out short forums posts is basically impossible.

    That changes a bit when you get to know the posters more. I can usually divine where you're coming from @ThacoBell, for instance. Even the non-native English speakers aren't too hard to understand if they're here for a while and post in more than one discussion.

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 472
    Yeah, the peaceful resolution is only possible in the EE. In vanilla BG you HAVE to side with either the druids or the nobles; no peaceful resolution is possible, even if Jaheira is with you.

    Permidion_StarkThacoBellQuartz
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,206
    Zaxares wrote: »
    Yeah, the peaceful resolution is only possible in the EE. In vanilla BG you HAVE to side with either the druids or the nobles; no peaceful resolution is possible, even if Jaheira is with you.

    It's funny because Jaheira doesn't strike me as much of a peacemaker. She always comes across as the 'my way or the highway' type.

  • jasteyjastey Member Posts: 1,301
    Zaxares wrote: »
    Yeah, the peaceful resolution is only possible in the EE. In vanilla BG you HAVE to side with either the druids or the nobles; no peaceful resolution is possible, even if Jaheira is with you.

    Is the peaceful solution only possible with Jaheira in party?
    This was also possible with BG1 NPC I think?

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,454
    jastey wrote: »
    Zaxares wrote: »
    Yeah, the peaceful resolution is only possible in the EE. In vanilla BG you HAVE to side with either the druids or the nobles; no peaceful resolution is possible, even if Jaheira is with you.

    Is the peaceful solution only possible with Jaheira in party?
    This was also possible with BG1 NPC I think?

    BG1 npc did have a peacful resolution, that lead directly into Jaheira's quest. So she was probably required for that as well.


    @Balrog99 I've personally always had significant difficulties getting correct tone out of a short (up a paragraph) post. I don't know how widespread that is, but its my experience.

    Balrog99
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,206
    edited September 9
    I just did the confrontation between Aldeth and Seniyad so I thought I would post some screenshots of the confrontation in question.

    Aldeth's first speech:
    e95ou925fb1u.png

    Seniyad's first speech:
    ewrqurfwqmej.png

    My attempt to mediate (I chose option 2 - which was probably out of character since I am Neutral Evil):
    enuoqe8gahxi.png

    Seniyad's response:
    jq5x1vbj1s71.png

    I think it is an interesting encounter. My impression is that Aldeth is lying and that he and his friends probably did kill the druid who attempted to stop them from hunting but Seniyad is a fanatic who won't listen to reason. Seniyad's last speech is enlightening if you really want to go into the whys and wherefores because he says "you will suffer together with your hunter friends". So the real crime in Seniyad's eyes is not the alleged murder but the fact that Aldeth and his companions are hunters.

    In the end they are probably both as bad as each other.

    I sided with Aldeth because my fighter specialises in bastard swords and I happen to know that Aldeth has got a spare one lying around. Plus I hate druids and don't really need an excuse to kill them in the first place.

    ChroniclerQuartz
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 826
    I really like the Wild Shape theory.

    ThacoBell
  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 246
    edited September 9
    Like JoenSo, even if I wanted to side with the druids, the dialogue to do so makes you sound like a teenage idiot and I have never done it

    I suspect this was deliberate so no-one does side with the druids and miss out on Aldeth’s doppelgänger quest

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,830
    AionZ wrote: »
    "They have this great aloe vera balm" is one of the stupidest, forced joke dialogue options I have ever seen and I will always side with Aldeth on that alone.
    Crazy how that godawful dialogue option is still funnier than 80% of Beamdog's forced humor. ;)

  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,021
    edited September 9
    It really isn't. At worst, it's of the same caliber, and even if it was, at least I could choose something that isn't the godawful line.

    Skatan
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,454
    Quartz wrote: »
    AionZ wrote: »
    "They have this great aloe vera balm" is one of the stupidest, forced joke dialogue options I have ever seen and I will always side with Aldeth on that alone.
    Crazy how that godawful dialogue option is still funnier than 80% of Beamdog's forced humor. ;)

    This line is just painful. Beamdog's stuff was legitimately funny.

    Daevelon
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,830
    Idk guys, I just really hate most of Beamdog's additions. Humor is subjective, so I don't claim to have "the right answer." But I do feel the humor doesn't fit alongside the old stuff--even the bad old stuff, like the aloe vera line--and most new dialogues could be summed up with the options 1) Good, 2) Evil, or 3) Snarky. And a lot of the time it doesn't even matter which you pick.

    Love all of the fixes and restoration of originally-planned content, and I love that the Enhanced Editions are stable unlike vanilla (I love vanilla, but there were crashes and incompatibilities all the time), but just personally I thought most of the original writing was atrocious and struck me like fan-fiction.

    I really wish Siege of Dragonspear had been their own original game with zero Baldur's Gate tie-in as they initially planned, because there were glimmers of legitimate brilliance there when they didn't have to try and force everything into the BG narrative. (Corwin and Glint are absolutely top-notch characters IMO, while Hexxat is painfully awful) Beamdog deserves to make their own BG-like game, a la Divinity and Pillars of Eternity. I think they'd do a great job.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,454
    @Quartz I fully agree that Beamdog needs to make their own rpg. *cough* @TrentOster *cough*

    leeux
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