@Kamigoroshi and @deltago So did I understand you correctly: if the game is not RtwP, you are not interested in it and by default consider it a meh? Do you play only RtwP games? Or are there other factors?
Though not directly addressed to me, I'm in the same camp as @Kamigoroshi and @deltago. A game that is literally perfect in every other way except for being TB would at best only get an 8/10 from me. A "good" TB game is a 6-7/10. As such, I'd much rather spend my limited and valuable gaming time simply replaying an old RTwP game that I know I will like rather than even trying a TB game that I am pretty confident I won't like. Also, I am quite open to action RPGs that are RT/RTwP, and as such I would much rather play a so-so RT/RTwP action RPG than even a good TB cRPG. Put differently, the expected Dragon Age 4, Elder Scrolls 6, Starfield, and next Witcher games are all WAY more exciting for me than BG3.
Our conversations on this subject would be so much more positive if only those of you who like TB combat had even the slightest empathy for how people who don't like TB combat feel. RTwP fans do get the arguments made by TB fans for why they don't like RTwP. But I just don't get the sense that the reverse is true. In my experiences, TB fans are largely dismissive of, and often ridicule, the reasons why people like me don't like TB combat (not you @JuliusBorisov). That's why these conversations don't go very well.
@Kamigoroshi and @deltago So did I understand you correctly: if the game is not RtwP, you are not interested in it and by default consider it a meh? Do you play only RtwP games? Or are there other factors?
Though not directly addressed to me, I'm in the same camp as @Kamigoroshi and @deltago. A game that is literally perfect in every other way except for being TB would at best only get an 8/10 from me. A "good" TB game is a 6-7/10. As such, I'd much rather spend my limited and valuable gaming time simply replaying an old RTwP game that I know I will like rather than even trying a TB game that I am pretty confident I won't like. Also, I am quite open to action RPGs that are RT/RTwP, and as such I would much rather play a so-so RT/RTwP action RPG than even a good TB cRPG. Put differently, the expected Dragon Age 4, Elder Scrolls 6, Starfield, and next Witcher games are all WAY more exciting for me than BG3.
Our conversations on this subject would be so much more positive if only those of you who like TB combat had even the slightest empathy for how people who don't like TB combat feel. RTwP fans do get the arguments made by TB fans for why they don't like RTwP. But I just don't get the sense that the reverse is true. In my experiences, TB fans are largely dismissive of, and often ridicule, the reasons why people like me don't like TB combat (not you @JuliusBorisov). That's why these conversations don't go very well.
I can personally understand that someone prefers RTwP over TB (or the other way around). I myself don't mind one mode or the other as soon as story and characters are compelling (though I'm leaning towards RTwP). What I really cannot fathom is how one single aspect of the game (in this case TB mode) can disqualify the whole game just like that. I remember the discussion couple years ago, before PoE1 release, that one user refused to play the game only because devs announced lack of support for modding tools. It didn't matter if game will be awesome or not, it mattered only the fact that it won't be moddable, as BG was. So yeah, I can empathize with not liking TB, but cannot empathize with ruling out the game because of simple aspect of it, whatever it may be. So for me the issue is not if RTwP is better that TB, issue is extremity of views. Just to tyle out any doubts, it's just my *personal* opinion on this matter.
@kanisatha I for one have said on multiple occasions that I sympathise with the people that won’t play this game because they prefer RTWP.
Thank you.
Though in my case, precisely because of the team initiative thing, the TB aspect of the game is only the second most important factor I don't like about the game. In order my main dislikes are:
Reduction of party size to four
TB combat system (will move up to the top if team initiative is taken away)
Multiplayer taking precedence over single-player in major game design decisions
Environmental and character model artwork assets look too much like D:OS (expecting this will change)
I played very good games, Turn based, real time with pause, even some shooters like mass effect or fallout or race games, so I do not really care about the RTWP vs TB interminable discussion.
But I have to say that is very difficult to empatize with people that turn every thread into a tb vs RTWP fight no matter what the subject is, with people that start every f... post with TB/rtwp is dull, is slow, is shit, etc etc
And I assure you, both sides have the blame, equally.
For what it's worth. I was fine with turn based combat in fallout except in necropolis where of you aggro the lot you spend ages waiting for 15+ ghouls to do their walk animations. That was the only point where I saw the limitations of the method.
I am more in the camp that does not like the fps mode very much but it seems they cater to that by having a birds eye view camera mode.
@Cahir " What I really cannot fathom is how one single aspect of the game (in this case TB mode) can disqualify the whole game just like that."
What's the most important aspect of a game? Its how we interact with it. What if the only available way to interact with said game is just not fun for you? That makes the game not fun. So yes, a single bad element can absolutely ruin a game, especially when that element is the only way that you will be interacting with that game for 30+ hours. Just imagine doing something you don't like for that long.
Its largely the reason I'm skipping the FFVII remake, despite the original being one of my favorite games of all time. They ripped the soul out of the original and made it a shallow action rpg.
@Cahir " What I really cannot fathom is how one single aspect of the game (in this case TB mode) can disqualify the whole game just like that."
What's the most important aspect of a game? Its how we interact with it. What if the only available way to interact with said game is just not fun for you? That makes the game not fun. So yes, a single bad element can absolutely ruin a game, especially when that element is the only way that you will be interacting with that game for 30+ hours. Just imagine doing something you don't like for that long.
Its largely the reason I'm skipping the FFVII remake, despite the original being one of my favorite games of all time. They ripped the soul out of the original and made it a shallow action rpg.
Exactly this. And for me it's also why I have to skip playing games like Cyberpunk 2077, The Outer Worlds, and Vampire: Bloodlines 2, even though these games look to be really good games, because they are first-person perspective and I cannot play such games (and not for any pysiological reasons). Good story, interesting characters, these are certainly thing that matter in ALL games. But I can actually live with a meh story in a game, for example, but cannot live with mechanics/structure of the game that involves elements fundamentally aggravating to me when the whole point of playing games is to gain some form of pleasure from the experience.
I'm really sad to hear that. To restrict yourself because of the combat mode and not play Cyberpunk 2077 is just too hard for me to believe in. That is going to be one of the most exciting games of all times.
The question here is what you focus on: the mode, and it alone, and think about it for 60 seconds each minute you play the game, or everything else a game offers. That is a real loss, IMHO, but it's your decision, after all.
I'm really sad to hear that. To restrict yourself because of the combat mode and not play Cyberpunk 2077 is just too hard for me to believe in. That is going to be one of the most exciting games of all times.
The question here is what you focus on: the mode, and it alone, and think about it for 60 seconds each minute you play the game, or everything else a game offers. That is a real loss, IMHO, but it's your decision, after all.
Actually, the perspective of the game is even more fundamental than combat system, because you are stuck with it for literally the whole game. I totally agree that CP2077 looks to be GotY, maybe even Game of the Decade! So you can imagine just how miserable I am that I won't be able to play it. I've tried playing first-person games, and the level of aggravation and frustration for me trying to handle that perspective is just too much.
I'm really sad to hear that. To restrict yourself because of the combat mode and not play Cyberpunk 2077 is just too hard for me to believe in. That is going to be one of the most exciting games of all times.
The question here is what you focus on: the mode, and it alone, and think about it for 60 seconds each minute you play the game, or everything else a game offers. That is a real loss, IMHO, but it's your decision, after all.
If I only had a PC, I'd be skipping Cyberpunk, because I don't enjoy FPS on PC. I need to play them on console.
Thaco is right. Game mechanics and how they play out trump everything else about the game when it comes to enjoyment. Other aspects can ruin that enjoyment or enhance them but if the core mechanics aren't an interest to you, then chances are you'll pass on playing the game and just watch the cutscene story on youtube.
They may trump certain things for individuals, and that's fine, but if you have very particular tastes on games, don't expect a lot of games to satisfy you.
Comments
Though not directly addressed to me, I'm in the same camp as @Kamigoroshi and @deltago. A game that is literally perfect in every other way except for being TB would at best only get an 8/10 from me. A "good" TB game is a 6-7/10. As such, I'd much rather spend my limited and valuable gaming time simply replaying an old RTwP game that I know I will like rather than even trying a TB game that I am pretty confident I won't like. Also, I am quite open to action RPGs that are RT/RTwP, and as such I would much rather play a so-so RT/RTwP action RPG than even a good TB cRPG. Put differently, the expected Dragon Age 4, Elder Scrolls 6, Starfield, and next Witcher games are all WAY more exciting for me than BG3.
Our conversations on this subject would be so much more positive if only those of you who like TB combat had even the slightest empathy for how people who don't like TB combat feel. RTwP fans do get the arguments made by TB fans for why they don't like RTwP. But I just don't get the sense that the reverse is true. In my experiences, TB fans are largely dismissive of, and often ridicule, the reasons why people like me don't like TB combat (not you @JuliusBorisov). That's why these conversations don't go very well.
I can personally understand that someone prefers RTwP over TB (or the other way around). I myself don't mind one mode or the other as soon as story and characters are compelling (though I'm leaning towards RTwP). What I really cannot fathom is how one single aspect of the game (in this case TB mode) can disqualify the whole game just like that. I remember the discussion couple years ago, before PoE1 release, that one user refused to play the game only because devs announced lack of support for modding tools. It didn't matter if game will be awesome or not, it mattered only the fact that it won't be moddable, as BG was. So yeah, I can empathize with not liking TB, but cannot empathize with ruling out the game because of simple aspect of it, whatever it may be. So for me the issue is not if RTwP is better that TB, issue is extremity of views. Just to tyle out any doubts, it's just my *personal* opinion on this matter.
Thank you.
Though in my case, precisely because of the team initiative thing, the TB aspect of the game is only the second most important factor I don't like about the game. In order my main dislikes are:
Reduction of party size to four
TB combat system (will move up to the top if team initiative is taken away)
Multiplayer taking precedence over single-player in major game design decisions
Environmental and character model artwork assets look too much like D:OS (expecting this will change)
But I have to say that is very difficult to empatize with people that turn every thread into a tb vs RTWP fight no matter what the subject is, with people that start every f... post with TB/rtwp is dull, is slow, is shit, etc etc
And I assure you, both sides have the blame, equally.
I am more in the camp that does not like the fps mode very much but it seems they cater to that by having a birds eye view camera mode.
What's the most important aspect of a game? Its how we interact with it. What if the only available way to interact with said game is just not fun for you? That makes the game not fun. So yes, a single bad element can absolutely ruin a game, especially when that element is the only way that you will be interacting with that game for 30+ hours. Just imagine doing something you don't like for that long.
Its largely the reason I'm skipping the FFVII remake, despite the original being one of my favorite games of all time. They ripped the soul out of the original and made it a shallow action rpg.
Exactly this. And for me it's also why I have to skip playing games like Cyberpunk 2077, The Outer Worlds, and Vampire: Bloodlines 2, even though these games look to be really good games, because they are first-person perspective and I cannot play such games (and not for any pysiological reasons). Good story, interesting characters, these are certainly thing that matter in ALL games. But I can actually live with a meh story in a game, for example, but cannot live with mechanics/structure of the game that involves elements fundamentally aggravating to me when the whole point of playing games is to gain some form of pleasure from the experience.
The question here is what you focus on: the mode, and it alone, and think about it for 60 seconds each minute you play the game, or everything else a game offers. That is a real loss, IMHO, but it's your decision, after all.
Actually, the perspective of the game is even more fundamental than combat system, because you are stuck with it for literally the whole game. I totally agree that CP2077 looks to be GotY, maybe even Game of the Decade! So you can imagine just how miserable I am that I won't be able to play it. I've tried playing first-person games, and the level of aggravation and frustration for me trying to handle that perspective is just too much.
If I only had a PC, I'd be skipping Cyberpunk, because I don't enjoy FPS on PC. I need to play them on console.
Thaco is right. Game mechanics and how they play out trump everything else about the game when it comes to enjoyment. Other aspects can ruin that enjoyment or enhance them but if the core mechanics aren't an interest to you, then chances are you'll pass on playing the game and just watch the cutscene story on youtube.