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Beamdog Community Questions for the Larian AMA (scheduled at March, 12)

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  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    I’ve seen plenty of positive feedback. All down to opinion at the end of the day :smile:
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    edited March 2020
    "When, during the design process, did you first decide on a combat mode?"
    Larian_Swen: "Day one and we never changed that decision afterwards."
    "If implemented, will the official modding tools allow the community to create a RTwP Mod for BG3's base game campaign in theory?"Larian_Swen: "That’s up to them."

    Charming... I wonder why this makes me not reasurred at all? *sigh*
  • LottiLotti Member Posts: 66
    "When, during the design process, did you first decide on a combat mode?"
    Larian_Swen: "Day one and we never changed that decision afterwards."
    "If implemented, will the official modding tools allow the community to create a RTwP Mod for BG3's base game campaign in theory?"Larian_Swen: "That’s up to them."

    Charming... I wonder why this makes me not reasurred at all? *sigh*

    Reassured of what? It was a loud and clear answer on something that wasn't in doubt anyway.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Lotti wrote: »
    Reassured of what?
    1. Of whenever or not an official RTwP mode will ever be added to the game in the future.
    2. Of whenever or not official modding tools will indeed allow for more things than what D:OS2's ones had offered.
    3. Of whenever or not I will even bother purchasing BG3 on a -85% steam sale. Or continue to ignore it for all eternity.

    For better or worse: now I know the answers to all three things. Especially the third one.
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    @Kamigoroshi I am sad to hear that but not surprised. It’s a shame you will miss out on Baldur’s Gate 3 but if you don’t like it then you don’t like it.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    I am feeling a little bit better about this game.

    I still don't like group initiative. I think someone else here mentioned it but the tadpole(s) are probably what will allow the characters to act as a cohesive unit. How it works now, only one character would need to focus on initiative, while the others can ignore it. I don't think its the same as having a Bard talk for the party, because only one person would be talking... unless a player had a low charisma score and they interrupted every 30 seconds... Noober. So I do think a slower character should have to act last.

    I get the 'any race can become mindflayers' mindset that Larian has approached - why restrict the player. I just wish they'd explain it more on the how, and not as just a simple retcon, regardless if Wizard's allows it or not.

    I didn't like this answer:
    "Roughly between 0 and 100. Are these ‘legendary’ characters going to be fully voiced? If so, will the same voice actors be used from the previous games? We can’t comment on this yet." As in they better. If small independent beamdog can track most of them all down and pay them all, I am pretty sure Larian can.

    I did like this answer (sorry @ThacoBell)
    "There are situations that if you don’t deal with them immediately will have irreversible consequences." I don't like fake urgency, and this actually allows multiple replays and getting different results. As long as it isn't a game over screen, I am cool with it.

    I don't like the follower or mercenary concept they came up with. I'd rather have fully fleshed out interactive characters with their own stories and motives. How they have it, every origin story character is going to start with tadpole dilemma. Now think of BG1 (or even 2) every NPC had their own motive. Yes most of those motives lined up with the actual main quest but in different parts of it. Kivan wanted revenge on Tazok for example. So I am less enthused on what they've come up with here, especially if they handle this the same way they did DOS2.

    I think 'brisk' combat is still their problem to solve and limiting the party size isn't the way to do it, especially when he is saying that recruitable NPCs will be at their throats. Less slots for those, less likely it'll happen.

    Level 10 cap seems decent. Enough for a sequel. >:) Surprised at no DLC. I like DLC when it is done right and I think a company like Larian would be able to do it right. But if they are sticking to it... I am holding them to it.

    Every other answer was the expected, "we can't comment on this now." Which is fine, unless he was the one who asked: "What weapons would you like to see make a comeback?" Besides maybe a flail of ages +2 (have the other 3 heads missing somewhere), I don't know. Level 1 - 10 is low enough levels that I don't want to be decked out in +3 or more gear. The Balduran equipment for sure...

    I do do do do like that there is no RNG loot. Like, that is a selling point for me. A little more enthused but still a great opportunity to be let down.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    On RtwP vs TB. If it was TB from day one, they should have said that from day 1. All this negativity about it is on them. If people weren't arguing about this for the last 6 months, many of the RtwP people might have come around especially with this reassurance:

    You can’t see this from anything we’ve shown so far because we don’t want to spoil it but we do touch upon the story of BG 1 & 2 in deeply meaningful ways and there are returning characters. The city plays a massive part and like in the originals, you’ll play an adventure in which the party is the heart and soul with protagonists who will be afflicted by the Gods against their will.

    That also should have been said since day 1.

    They pitted the player base against each other because of it. Poor PR.
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,596
    deltago wrote: »
    On RtwP vs TB. If it was TB from day one, they should have said that from day 1. All this negativity about it is on them. If people weren't arguing about this for the last 6 months, many of the RtwP people might have come around especially with this reassurance:

    You can’t see this from anything we’ve shown so far because we don’t want to spoil it but we do touch upon the story of BG 1 & 2 in deeply meaningful ways and there are returning characters. The city plays a massive part and like in the originals, you’ll play an adventure in which the party is the heart and soul with protagonists who will be afflicted by the Gods against their will.

    That also should have been said since day 1.

    They pitted the player base against each other because of it. Poor PR.

    They're not responsible for your behavior.
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 868
    Is there any hope that we could see ritual casting, feats and multiclassing in BG3, as in D&D 5e?

    Feats and multiclassing: yes. Ritual casting not for EA, but we have plans.

    Sad news, but it´s good to know we would have multiclassing and feats as in PNP.
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    @deltago I am also quite happy that there is no RNG loot. Don’t get me wrong I liked it in DOS but I think it was always something that I loved about Baldur’s’s Gate having items that felt special whenyou found them and not like you could find a more powerful version of the same weapon. Kudos to them for that.
  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,286
    Kudos to Larian for answering most of those questions. Looking forward to BG3.
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,327
    edited March 2020
    OK, so the answers to my questions...

    1. Group initiative is here to stay, but if it seems it's not working as intended or if players don't like it during EA, it might be tweaked. Fingers crossed this means we MIGHT see individual initiatives return. I could probably get used to group initiative, but it just feels SO clunky.

    2. Romances will be in. No further details provided (fair enough. Don't want to spoil stuff for people who don't like being spoiled).

    3. Custom characters will choose a voice set during character creation. All voice sets are FULLY voiced, so you will get the same exposition and self-narration during dialogue scenes.

    4. Party size is limited to 4. (That screenshot we saw of there being 5 people in the party was likely a temporary follower.) That said, Swen didn't say if the limit would be moddable or not (it depends entirely on how they coded it behind the scenes), so there's always hope.

    I also REALLY like the fact that magic items are pre-set and not randomly generated. I like being able to know that specific enemies will always drop specific items and I can plan out my party's "final build" in advance on subsequent playthroughs. :)

    I was NOT expecting such a low level cap for BG3, but eh, BG1 did it too, and the game was fantastic, so no plus or minus here.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    @JuliusBorisov I'm honored that you quoted me, but I stand with my negative feedback message. This AMA didn't bring me the feeling of getting impressed. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    It's as @byrne20 has said: "All down to opinion at the end of the day."
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,743
    edited March 2020
    So now that negative is migrating from "they didn't reply to anything" to "this AMA didn't bring me the feeling of getting impressed". In other words, this is a continuation of negative feelings towards the product and all that is related to it.

    I ask again: what exactly made you begin questioning, criticizing and just not agreeing with a lot of things in yet-to-be-released game from the get-go? Is there anything that might make you change that approach? If the reply is "Make the game as I want it", then I can again repeat: there are plenty of games you already consider ideal and take pleasure from them, this is a good thing, a variety of offers.

    So - if the game is not what you want, - will you continue to feel only negative towards it? Won't you even give it a go? Not to play the best game, not to play the game you adore more than anything, but just to play the game, to see what is good and what is bad?
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    I ask again: what exactly made you begin questioning, criticizing and just not agreeing with a lot of things in yet-to-be-released game from the get-go? Is there anything that might make you change that approach? If the reply is "Make the game as I want it", then I can again repeat: there are plenty of games you already consider ideal and take pleasure from them, this is a good thing, a variety of offers.
    By the looks of things? Nope! Nothing at all! At least not until someone, somewhere, in the far away future will be able to sufficiently mod the base game campaign. Then I may take another look in Larian's general direction. This hasn't happened for either of their D:OS games since release though. So I won't hold my breathe in BG3's case either.
    So - if the game is not what you want, - will you continue to feel only negative towards it? Won't you even give it a go? Not to play the best game, not to play the game you adore more than anything, but just to play the game, to see what is good and what is bad?
    I did enjoy some their classic, real-time Divinity titles. But their newer games are nothing for me. Meaning I gradually shifted over the years from being interested, to feeling negatively, to ultimately becoming apathetic towards their games and the studio behind it. This is my personal opinion which won't change that easily.
  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 719
    Looks like we haven't gotten even a single of our questions answered in the end. But received a lot of negative feedback instead, I dare say.

    Did anyone honestly expect otherwise? lol
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    @Dev6 are you not reading the thread?? As pointed out by @JuliusBorisov they answered all questions put to them.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,743
    They even thanked all of us.

    From the Reddit thread itself: "Thank you Reddit for all the questions and thank you for all of the organization on your side, it really helped us to answer these questions concisely. We're looking forward to talking to you during Early Access!"

    From Twitter:



  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    So now that negative is migrating from "they didn't reply to anything" to "this AMA didn't bring me the feeling of getting impressed". In other words, this is a continuation of negative feelings towards the product and all that is related to it.

    I ask again: what exactly made you begin questioning, criticizing and just not agreeing with a lot of things in yet-to-be-released game from the get-go? Is there anything that might make you change that approach? If the reply is "Make the game as I want it", then I can again repeat: there are plenty of games you already consider ideal and take pleasure from them, this is a good thing, a variety of offers.

    So - if the game is not what you want, - will you continue to feel only negative towards it? Won't you even give it a go? Not to play the best game, not to play the game you adore more than anything, but just to play the game, to see what is good and what is bad?

    I have a saying:

    Expect the worst and only better can happen. Unless the worst does happen, then you have bragging rights while the world ends

    People are allowed to be sceptical. They haven’t proved anything, just attempted to reassure old school players that the originals are referenced in the game in a meaningful way. We don’t have to swallow the hype because others have. That is how people generally get let down.

    WotC still isn’t given its fans a RtwP game using the 5e ruleset. Yes, we finally get a single player rpg game through Larian, but that game is (once again) being developed with multiplayer in mind first, so a lot is being restricted because of that. If what is being offered doesn’t interest people, no they don’t have to give it a go.

    One can only hope, one of the next few games WotC releases will be a RTwP game much like all those games that got me back into gaming: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights...
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    @deltago I never could get into Neverwinter nights.. I like Neverwinter Nights 2 but just couldn’t ever get past the first chapter In Neverwinter Nights without giving up.

    I keep meaning to give it a go on my Xbox now that Beamdog have remastered it and see if I can get into it.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,743
    edited March 2020
    @Kamigoroshi and @deltago So did I understand you correctly: if the game is not RtwP, you are not interested in it and by default consider it a meh? Do you play only RtwP games? Or are there other factors?
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    To quote myself from another thread:
    @DinoDin No thanks. :)

    In the first place, I do not limit myself to CRPG's. Real time action RPG's, Hack&Slash, JRPG's, Point and Click Adventure games, Sci-Fi exploration games, Horror games and Open World Survival games are all close to my gamer heart. Meaning I have a lot of variety to choose from.

    I agree with you that CRPG's using RTwP are very, very few in number. Especially compared to those using TB - hence why I hold the small amount which does use RTwP precious. On top of my head the only western TB cRPG franchise I earnestly approved of was Drakensang. But that's more because The Dark Eye is less combat focused than its Northern American PnP counterpart.

    Honestly, I couldn't care less about D&D as a TableTop ruleset: especially after the dozens and dozens of retconnings it went through. My interest in WotC's IP as a whole hit practically rock bottom level. So no, I certainly don't see myself as a hardcore D&D fan.
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    @Kamigoroshi well that’s a shame. Looks like this game was never really going to be something you would be interested in :(
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    @Kamigoroshi and @deltago So did I understand you correctly: if the game is not RtwP, you are not interested in it and by default consider it a meh? Do you play only RtwP games? Or are there other factors?

    No. I personally am disappointed that it isn't rtwp. IMO, Larian now has deliver higher on things like story for me to say "yes this is a true sequel." I will still give this game a chance, eventually. I am not going to pay to beta test it. But if it doesn't continue the story properly, I would honestly think WotC messed up by rewarding Larian with this franchise instead of letting them develop their own IP using the 5e ruleset and letting another company eventually take up the mantle of Baldur's Gate franchise.

    IMO turn base combat is very jarring for me. Everything else is happening in real time from traveling, to conversations, to cut scenes only for it to switch it up once combat starts. It's even more jarring when it doesn't switch 'maps' to do it. For example, in Pokémon, when combat starts, the screen flashes a couple of times then you are brought to the combat screen. Combat is sperate from everything else that is happening so its pacing is less jarring because it is being presented as a separate mechanic. This isn't the case in games like D:OS series. Add in that every battle needs to be 'epic' (no trash mobs) that takes away from battles that should be epic. BG2, De'Arnise Keep, has a good example. The first floor you are fighting 'trash mobs' of trolls to get a grasp of how the AI works with them and what it takes to kill them. When you need to get they key to get into the rooms however, you have a miniboss battle with a giant troll that splits in two, a spellcasting Yuan-ti and two little trolls. That fight is more memorable because of the slight difficulty spike from everything you faced before it (who doesn't remember the WTF moment the first time you played it and troll split into two little ones). But doing 'trash mobs' in TB slows the entire game down, so developers don't do them. Each encounter is 3 or more enemies that the player has to fight off, to keep the game challenging. IMO it's poor design that makes battles less memorable and breaks the immersion when you are playing them.

    @byrne20 The OC of NWN was horrible (it does get slightly better after the first chapter). It's two expansions, where the protagonist is connected (it is assumed the player is using the same character from SoU in HotU), is better. Also better was the ability for people to create PWs and other modules using the game engine to tell their own stories. I could never get into NWN2 because of the camera. The furthest I got in original campaign was a warehouse where I had to fight what seemed to be an endless wave of guards (because I was playing evil), which broke my immersion (which is highly important to me when playing RPGs or any game that is story driven) and I 'put it on hold.' That was four computers ago. I've reinstalled it countless times not being able to get past the first tutorial chapter because of the camera since then.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I have to give Larian credit for answering our questions. Props.

    "We have hecka links and influence from the old BG games." (slightly paraphrased), is not reassuring on its own based on what we've been shown so far. But at least Larian has THOUGHT about it. Time will tell how accurate this is.

    The "turn based" from day 1 is exactly what I expected and is just something I'm not interested in. Turn based isn't a deal on its own, but everything else in the writing and characters needs to be extremely good for me to put up with it.

    I never even considered random loot as a possibility, was that something that could actually have happened?!

    Bhaal being alive still sucks mightily, and "5e did it" doesn't make it any less bitter. I swear, WotC is the worst thing to ever happen to D&D.


    Overall, I think the AMA went as well as it realistically could have. I'm still not really interested, but it might have tilted me from "hate" to "apathy". We'll see what happens as more information is available.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,534
    If you really doubt it will be any good then the only solution is to watch a let's play after the game comes out and then settle on whether you do want to play it or if you want to ignore it like the canon books.
  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 719
    byrne20 wrote: »
    @Dev6 are you not reading the thread?? As pointed out by @JuliusBorisov they answered all questions put to them.

    Actually, no I wasn't! I completely missed the second page! Derp
  • AedanAedan Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 8,551
    @JuliusBorisov
    Thank you very much. Glad to read the reply to my question. I hope Italian language will be included.
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