Hi AWizardDidIt, like already pointed out, EndlessBG1 doesn't affect anything in SoD (past Korlasz' Dungeon if the according component is installed), so what would be the incompatibility you mentioned?
Unless this has been fixed, there is an existing incompatibility between BH and EBG1 in the sense that BH gives you an unexpected ally in the Sarevok fight, who then has no appropriate post-fight dialogue in an EBG1 install because BH expects the game to auto-start SoD at that point.
Unless this has been fixed, there is an existing incompatibility between BH and EBG1 in the sense that BH gives you an unexpected ally in the Sarevok fight, who then has no appropriate post-fight dialogue in an EBG1 install because BH expects the game to auto-start SoD at that point.
It should have been fixed by Johnbob :
"EDIT : Also we could had a goodbye, in case EndlessBG1 is installed and player stay in the area after Sarevok death.
IF
Global("BHBG1QuestFinal","%Undercity_TempleofBhaal%",1)
Dead("Sarevok")
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("BHBG1QuestFinal","%Undercity_TempleofBhaal%",2)
ChangeEnemyAlly(Myself,NEUTRAL)
DisplayStringHead(Myself,~This BhaalSpawn have fallen... Farewell <CHARNAME>~)
SmallWait(4)
ReallyForceSpell(Myself,DRYAD_TELEPORT)
END"
Hi AWizardDidIt, like already pointed out, EndlessBG1 doesn't affect anything in SoD (past Korlasz' Dungeon if the according component is installed), so what would be the incompatibility you mentioned?
Oh the issue was more a matter of making a separate version of the mod for Endless BG1 so people who didn't want to play SoD could play it.
But I think I just want to get out the SoD version and the consider a version that works in Endless BG1 afterward. There aren't enough SoD mods in general and I'm increasingly of a mind that more mods specifically for it would be a good thing.
Great mod, but somewhere along the road it became too epic for my tastes.
To me, at least in the terms of atmosphere, Baldurs Gate 1 always encapsulated the spirit of low level 1e and 2e editions. In particular, I always enjoyed the original designers' respect of combat rating and down-to-earth story telling. Sure there are some epic demons and monsters here and there, but for the most part they serve as something akin of it's own storyline boss - like Aec'letec or Loup Garou etc. I would say that something similar extends to a powerful wizardly cabal like Thayan Red Wizards, even if in this case it's a splinter off faction. The mere fact that they're capable of conjuring an army of spectral trolls, slimes, stone & clay golems, capture Fire Giants hierophants, ally themselves with a RASKHASA (Challenge Rating 13 btw) and some sort of a powerful humanoid demon, whilst being in their own pocket plane of some sorts.....Well, lets just say that it doesn't feel like BG1 at that stage. It's too epic. Sarevok's original machinations as envisioned by original designers felt a heck of a lot more down-to-earth compared to this.
I think this mod would have benefitted a lot more from being split into many smaller self-contained parts. In early Beregost, you could have had a local "Oubek" (Nashkel bounty collector). In Baldurs Gate you could have had one of the many local wizards not wishing to have to deal with Thayans under their nose, think Ramizith hiriding you to deal with rival mage, only that here there's another mage hiring you to deal with Thayans to get some sort of Mcguffin artifact so that he can increase his UNLIMITED POOOOOWEER, or something of that sorts.. In SoD you could have added a continuation of this splinter-off faction throwing their lot with Caelar, in essence creating an alternative dungeon route in one of the places where game feels too railroady.
As for the Bhaalspawn lore? Illasera, Sendai, Amellysan? It added nothing. Hell, the most intriguing part here was the Fire Giant Hierophant being captured by his rivals, his exposition of Yagashura felt good and threatening, it expanded on the beast that is Yagashura, an invulnerable fire giant others look up to as a god. But the rest? Sendai writing "think of my dark lips" in that letter, corruption by being 10/10 drow sex-bimbo to an enemy Harper? I don't know bro, not my cup of tea I guess. Illasera being friendly bounty hunter that hires you to kill some scrubs beneath her notice. I don't know. She seemed capable of having strong and powerful servants, why not send them to deal with this? Why even be in Sword Coast in the first place? And you/us/charname? Better to kill you/us/charname. She has killed others, so why not us either? Cuz plot armor? Well, doesn't sit right with me.
All in all, I think you did a great job. This mod is playable, and for majority of people who feel happy with Mc'donalds-tier writing, it's an excellent piece. To me the story could have been better, but beggars can't be choosers. I won't replay the mod to it's finality again, however I will incorporate it into my runs by pretending that this is not Illasera, but a random bounty hunter who wishes to claim rewards for the first opening fights up to baldurs gate. Then I will avoid it when I'm in the city, because that's where it starts not feeling like Baldurs Gate.
I also disliked the halfling/gnome character because she felt too much like a stereotypical meme of shorties that seems to be omnipresent everywhere. To be fair even bioware was guilty of this, but they also had decent characters like Montaron and Mazzy who weren't typical stereotypes. Would it hurt to have a non-quirky-happy hafling/gnome for once? Some no-nonsense "I ain't getting paid enough for this shit, but I'll see this through"-type of shorty?
Overall, despite rant, I think this is a 7.5 out of 10. It's too epic for me, but I recognise the effort and I think that it is exceptional. The pre-Baldurs Gate part will now be incorporated into all of my subsequent runs.
Oh the issue was more a matter of making a separate version of the mod for Endless BG1 so people who didn't want to play SoD could play it.
I don't understand what you mean with "who didn't want to play SoD". EndlessBG1 lets the player move on to SoD, it just makes it possible to chose when to do so.
EndlessBG1 also adds a possibility to leave out SoD altogether in an EET game, but that's more of a cheat anyway. From a technical POV, this also doesn't make EndlessBG1 incompatible with SoD mods.
Let me know if you have more questions to compatibility. I definitely want to prevent the mods not to be compatible because of some sort of misunderstanding how EndlessBG1 works.
Oh the issue was more a matter of making a separate version of the mod for Endless BG1 so people who didn't want to play SoD could play it.
I don't understand what you mean with "who didn't want to play SoD". EndlessBG1 lets the player move on to SoD, it just makes it possible to chose when to do so.
EndlessBG1 also adds a possibility to leave out SoD altogether in an EET game, but that's more of a cheat anyway. From a technical POV, this also doesn't make EndlessBG1 incompatible with SoD mods.
Let me know if you have more questions to compatibility. I definitely want to prevent the mods not to be compatible because of some sort of misunderstanding how EndlessBG1 works.
But in general: yay to SoD mods!
Sorry to clarify further, I mean to say that the mod is set in SOD areas and follows along with the SOD plotline to a certain extent, so I'd have to create a separate version of the mod to move that stuff into BG1 and redo a lot of triggers/writing around that. It certainly shouldn't be incompatible with Endless BG1, it's just I've had some people mention to me that they'd like the mod to be playable without doing SOD at all.
Great mod, but somewhere along the road it became too epic for my tastes.
[snip]
Overall, despite rant, I think this is a 7.5 out of 10. It's too epic for me, but I recognise the effort and I think that it is exceptional. The pre-Baldurs Gate part will now be incorporated into all of my subsequent runs.
I will say, while I think that I have different tastes in writing than you, I actually don't disagree with your comment about the storyline getting too "epic" for BG1's low level simple adventuring feel. If I was to redo it, I'd change a lot about the mod and keep it more focused around maybe some local bandits secondary to the main plot. At the time I was more just writing it as I went while experimenting with what I could do modding. Honestly, I've considered redoing a lot of parts of it to pull it more down to simpler adventuring fare.
so I'd have to create a separate version of the mod to move that stuff into BG1 and redo a lot of triggers/writing around that. It certainly shouldn't be incompatible with Endless BG1, it's just I've had some people mention to me that they'd like the mod to be playable without doing SOD at all
OK, I understand. This is not an incompatibility with EndlessBG1 then, just you pondering whether you'll offer the possibility to play the content in BG1 after Sarevok's death.
The difficulty I see here is that you can't know whether the player will actually skip SoD or not. Meaning, just because EndlessBG1 is installed will not be a suitable check whether the content should be moved until after Sarevok's death or whether it will just trigger normally in SoD.
What I did for my mods: content only triggers in BG1 after Sarevok's death (for BGT or for EE with EBG1/Transition) if it is BG:EE without SoD. For any game with SoD included, the events will trigger normally in SoD.
for majority of people who feel happy with Mc'donalds-tier writing,
I disagree with the majority of your post, which is fine because you know, YMMV, but out of interest, which mods do you consider to be above "McDonalds-tier" in terms of writing?
I didn't read the whole post above, but since megrimlock quoted the term "Mc'donalds-tier writing" being used, I'd just wanted to add that all I ever heard about Black Hearts was how excellent the writing was.
I really enjoyed it. I think that Illasera is a very well written character. Her dialogue is really fun and quick-witted. I also enjoyed her banter with the companions (though I think the way to trigger them is somewhat obscure). I do think that she has the last word a little too often, sometimes in detriment to the original characters.
I didn't mind Nerys. I thought the mod gave you plenty of opportunities to express contempt for her. You could say she overstays her welcome somewhat, but I found her easily ignorable once she fulfills her role in the plot.
One of my favorite things about playing the trilogy is how the epicness ramps up. Bhaalspawn aside, the plot of BG1 is a relatively mundane one. I do think that the Red Wizard storyline would have fit better in BG2. I enjoyed it though, and the fights were a fun challenge for someone who was breezing through the game up to that point.
Comments
"EDIT : Also we could had a goodbye, in case EndlessBG1 is installed and player stay in the area after Sarevok death.
IF
Global("BHBG1QuestFinal","%Undercity_TempleofBhaal%",1)
Dead("Sarevok")
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("BHBG1QuestFinal","%Undercity_TempleofBhaal%",2)
ChangeEnemyAlly(Myself,NEUTRAL)
DisplayStringHead(Myself,~This BhaalSpawn have fallen... Farewell <CHARNAME>~)
SmallWait(4)
ReallyForceSpell(Myself,DRYAD_TELEPORT)
END"
Oh the issue was more a matter of making a separate version of the mod for Endless BG1 so people who didn't want to play SoD could play it.
But I think I just want to get out the SoD version and the consider a version that works in Endless BG1 afterward. There aren't enough SoD mods in general and I'm increasingly of a mind that more mods specifically for it would be a good thing.
To me, at least in the terms of atmosphere, Baldurs Gate 1 always encapsulated the spirit of low level 1e and 2e editions. In particular, I always enjoyed the original designers' respect of combat rating and down-to-earth story telling. Sure there are some epic demons and monsters here and there, but for the most part they serve as something akin of it's own storyline boss - like Aec'letec or Loup Garou etc. I would say that something similar extends to a powerful wizardly cabal like Thayan Red Wizards, even if in this case it's a splinter off faction. The mere fact that they're capable of conjuring an army of spectral trolls, slimes, stone & clay golems, capture Fire Giants hierophants, ally themselves with a RASKHASA (Challenge Rating 13 btw) and some sort of a powerful humanoid demon, whilst being in their own pocket plane of some sorts.....Well, lets just say that it doesn't feel like BG1 at that stage. It's too epic. Sarevok's original machinations as envisioned by original designers felt a heck of a lot more down-to-earth compared to this.
I think this mod would have benefitted a lot more from being split into many smaller self-contained parts. In early Beregost, you could have had a local "Oubek" (Nashkel bounty collector). In Baldurs Gate you could have had one of the many local wizards not wishing to have to deal with Thayans under their nose, think Ramizith hiriding you to deal with rival mage, only that here there's another mage hiring you to deal with Thayans to get some sort of Mcguffin artifact so that he can increase his UNLIMITED POOOOOWEER, or something of that sorts.. In SoD you could have added a continuation of this splinter-off faction throwing their lot with Caelar, in essence creating an alternative dungeon route in one of the places where game feels too railroady.
As for the Bhaalspawn lore? Illasera, Sendai, Amellysan? It added nothing. Hell, the most intriguing part here was the Fire Giant Hierophant being captured by his rivals, his exposition of Yagashura felt good and threatening, it expanded on the beast that is Yagashura, an invulnerable fire giant others look up to as a god. But the rest? Sendai writing "think of my dark lips" in that letter, corruption by being 10/10 drow sex-bimbo to an enemy Harper? I don't know bro, not my cup of tea I guess. Illasera being friendly bounty hunter that hires you to kill some scrubs beneath her notice. I don't know. She seemed capable of having strong and powerful servants, why not send them to deal with this? Why even be in Sword Coast in the first place? And you/us/charname? Better to kill you/us/charname. She has killed others, so why not us either? Cuz plot armor? Well, doesn't sit right with me.
All in all, I think you did a great job. This mod is playable, and for majority of people who feel happy with Mc'donalds-tier writing, it's an excellent piece. To me the story could have been better, but beggars can't be choosers. I won't replay the mod to it's finality again, however I will incorporate it into my runs by pretending that this is not Illasera, but a random bounty hunter who wishes to claim rewards for the first opening fights up to baldurs gate. Then I will avoid it when I'm in the city, because that's where it starts not feeling like Baldurs Gate.
I also disliked the halfling/gnome character because she felt too much like a stereotypical meme of shorties that seems to be omnipresent everywhere. To be fair even bioware was guilty of this, but they also had decent characters like Montaron and Mazzy who weren't typical stereotypes. Would it hurt to have a non-quirky-happy hafling/gnome for once? Some no-nonsense "I ain't getting paid enough for this shit, but I'll see this through"-type of shorty?
Overall, despite rant, I think this is a 7.5 out of 10. It's too epic for me, but I recognise the effort and I think that it is exceptional. The pre-Baldurs Gate part will now be incorporated into all of my subsequent runs.
It does move the Korlasz' Dungeon into BG1, if the component is installed.
But if you have an SoD NPC that joines after the PC returned to the Palace (in SoD), they won't be affected by EndlessBG1 at all.
If you have a BG1 NPC that is present in Korlasz' Dungeon, there is a compatibility note in the readme:
https://github.com/Gibberlings3/EndlessBG1/blob/master/c#endlessbg1/readme.c#endlessbg1.english.txt#L225
Here is an example how I added a farewell line to my NPC (Brandock) when the player is ready to continue to SoD:
https://github.com/Gitjas/Brandock_the_Mage/blob/master/c#brandock/c#brandock.tp2#L2793
EndlessBG1 also adds a possibility to leave out SoD altogether in an EET game, but that's more of a cheat anyway. From a technical POV, this also doesn't make EndlessBG1 incompatible with SoD mods.
Let me know if you have more questions to compatibility. I definitely want to prevent the mods not to be compatible because of some sort of misunderstanding how EndlessBG1 works.
But in general: yay to SoD mods!
Sorry to clarify further, I mean to say that the mod is set in SOD areas and follows along with the SOD plotline to a certain extent, so I'd have to create a separate version of the mod to move that stuff into BG1 and redo a lot of triggers/writing around that. It certainly shouldn't be incompatible with Endless BG1, it's just I've had some people mention to me that they'd like the mod to be playable without doing SOD at all.
I will say, while I think that I have different tastes in writing than you, I actually don't disagree with your comment about the storyline getting too "epic" for BG1's low level simple adventuring feel. If I was to redo it, I'd change a lot about the mod and keep it more focused around maybe some local bandits secondary to the main plot. At the time I was more just writing it as I went while experimenting with what I could do modding. Honestly, I've considered redoing a lot of parts of it to pull it more down to simpler adventuring fare.
The difficulty I see here is that you can't know whether the player will actually skip SoD or not. Meaning, just because EndlessBG1 is installed will not be a suitable check whether the content should be moved until after Sarevok's death or whether it will just trigger normally in SoD.
What I did for my mods: content only triggers in BG1 after Sarevok's death (for BGT or for EE with EBG1/Transition) if it is BG:EE without SoD. For any game with SoD included, the events will trigger normally in SoD.
I disagree with the majority of your post, which is fine because you know, YMMV, but out of interest, which mods do you consider to be above "McDonalds-tier" in terms of writing?
I really enjoyed it. I think that Illasera is a very well written character. Her dialogue is really fun and quick-witted. I also enjoyed her banter with the companions (though I think the way to trigger them is somewhat obscure). I do think that she has the last word a little too often, sometimes in detriment to the original characters.
I didn't mind Nerys. I thought the mod gave you plenty of opportunities to express contempt for her. You could say she overstays her welcome somewhat, but I found her easily ignorable once she fulfills her role in the plot.
One of my favorite things about playing the trilogy is how the epicness ramps up. Bhaalspawn aside, the plot of BG1 is a relatively mundane one. I do think that the Red Wizard storyline would have fit better in BG2. I enjoyed it though, and the fights were a fun challenge for someone who was breezing through the game up to that point.
Overall a great mod that I'd recommend to anyone