There's basically one major thing stopping me from moving on to beta-testing, and that's the new journal system. I'm considering moving on with broken journals and just ensuring everyone knows they won't work, but even so, I won't be able to start testing til probably late May/early June.
What's the major issue with the new journal system with respect to the BG1 NPC Mod?
@aquilae The journal system in BG(2)EE is different to that of BG2/BG, and we'll need to completely overhaul all the journal entries for all mods to make them work with BG(2)EE properly.
The problem is those mods still have to be compatible with BG2, so we have to create a simple, easy to use solution that is compatible with both. There's the rub.
Ignore my guess if stupid, it's with the better of intentions, but can't anothet mod already made that rework the journal system of BG EE be used in it's raw to give impulse to the work (probally with the mod owner's approval).
Well, that will only work if someone had already reworked the journal system of course.
I'm parting from simply logic, without any knowledge of system code anyway.
@kamuizin It hasn't been done yet, that's the problem. I either need to find the time to knuckle down and work out a system myself, or get @CamDawg or someone with a good working knowledge of both systems to do it for me.
I wish Overhaul would invest some time to get the mods ported over. Right now, BG:EE is still the worst version out there for anybody who likes mods. This doesn't really sound promising for BG2:EE either.
My $0.02 - to hell with the journal. It's been weird and awkward from launch, breaking it further is no big deal if it means my party members will actually talk to each other again.
as long the quest reports works well, i really don't give much for the journal also, the most important journal entries could be reworked in quest entries if needed, besides, i never wrote anything in my journal.
i meant the problem was labeled only at the Journal inside the Journal. Still i give support to Shawne idea then, disable Journal and i will not be sad about it, just let people know the mod is in beta and this restriction exist.
Could an item simulate an journal by the way? An unremovable item with the main char (a book or an parchment) that would receive the updates instead of the journal? I have no problem in open hand of the Journal and less yet of lost a single slot in the inventory for simulate the journal if needed.
Still maybe it's my naivety speaking cos the disable of the journal itself can be problematic as well.
@kamuizin That is part of the problem, unfortunately. An item wouldn't work like that, alas; you can't change an item's description on the fly. You can change it out, but then you'd have to have a separate item for every single permutation of what journal entries you could possibly have, and an enormous script to swap them out as necessary.
My $0.02 - to hell with the journal. It's been weird and awkward from launch, breaking it further is no big deal if it means my party members will actually talk to each other again.
I've had issues with the BGEE Journal too: items out of date order, attempts to scroll the journal open entries for editing; quests not going into the "done quests" folder... So, I wouldn't miss the journal entries not working.
I only look at my journal when I forget what I was doing anyway. I can probably stumble around just fine without it. I haven't played BG:EE yet entirely because this mod isn't compatible with it.
Wow, i didn't know how many people hadn't played BGEE yet because of the lack of BG1NPC project. That's me, too. I've played it a little, but I keep turning to my TUTU installation.
I played BG1 without the NPC project, and I thought it was fun--kind of like IWD 1 and 2. But then I played it with the NPC project, and I was blown away by the talent of community modders. Not to mention the effort that went into developing BGTUTU. Holy cow.
Not that it means much, but I tip my hat to all modders out there. You guys absolutely rock.
I feel like community modders could band together and make their own game. It would be the one game to rule them all and it would always be receiving constant updates.
I feel like community modders could band together and make their own game. It would be the one game to rule them all and it would always be receiving constant updates.
It would also be a completely schizophrenic mess - modders within the community have very different views on what should go into a particular game (witness the endless arguments about the Solaufein and Saerileth mods, or the dreaded Imoen Romance...)
I suppose you could somehow convert those arguments into banters between NPCs. I think it could be done. Check out the tortured souls mod or the neverending journey mods for bg2. Those are basically new games (i haven't played them yet, but I'm planning on it in a future playthrough--it's tough because they're not exactly weidu compatible).
I really WANTed to like NEJ because it's IWD! but the added extra stuff on top of IWD and design decisions really turned me off to the mod. There are several places you are forced to do something or you die or you can't continue.
For one, upon starting BG2, it is impossible to continue in chateau irenicus without going to NEJ portal first. There is a message "an invisible force prevents you from going further" even if you have the exit portal key in your possession.
You die automatically a scripted death if you don't have Hrothgar in your party at one point. You get a message something like "you are missing someone!" and die. The end. This is scripted to run in the tavern of the bard's playhouse.
The level of difficulty for a party just starting out in Irenicus' dungeon is off the charts particularly in the Vale of Souls, the undead there are like super powerful undead, not the low/mid level things they are in IWD.
I'm thinking about creating my own IWD in BG2 adventure actually to get my iwd in BG2 fix.
Seriously? You die if you don't have someone in your party? lol. It seems like there should be a more creative way to handle something like that. Instead of death, how about something like a magic door that only Hrothgar could open?
Did you ever play tortured souls? Any feedback on that one?
@mashedtaters I did play tortured souls way back in the day. It seemed okay. I didn't see much content of TS except I recall some recycled areas from Trials of the Luremaster. I don't give it the "stay away" recommendation that I just mentioned about NEJ. There are a lot of things the mod maker of NEJ COULD have done but he determined his modding direction and that's the way he made it.
I remember a post by the mod author back in the day seemingly proud of the ways he made to kill you if you didn't do what he wanted. I'll try to link if I can dig it up...
@Kaeloree assuming that new patch will be released within a week, how much time do You need to finish BG1 NPC Project? Not that I'm impatient or something:P
Its really a question of quantity. BG2 has a massive amount of areas so that the recycled ones barely register. DA2 had about 1 cave and 1 mine which it recycled endlessly, and which were really obviously done so (unedited mini-maps, for example).
Could i suggest the use of areas from Icewind Dale, Icewind Dale 2 and Planescape torment in BG instead of just recycling old areas from BG or BG2? That will give the sensation of new content. By speaking of Dragon Age, it's possible to adapt DA:O and DA2 areas for BG? (BG2 remix adapted BG areas for DA:O engine).
@Kamuizin Those were recreated by hand in a completely new engine. Likewise, putting Dragon Age interiors into BG would take as much work as just recreating them from the ground up. They're two completely different engines.
Comments
The problem is those mods still have to be compatible with BG2, so we have to create a simple, easy to use solution that is compatible with both. There's the rub.
Well, that will only work if someone had already reworked the journal system of course.
I'm parting from simply logic, without any knowledge of system code anyway.
Could an item simulate an journal by the way? An unremovable item with the main char (a book or an parchment) that would receive the updates instead of the journal? I have no problem in open hand of the Journal and less yet of lost a single slot in the inventory for simulate the journal if needed.
Still maybe it's my naivety speaking cos the disable of the journal itself can be problematic as well.
Thanks for all the work on this mod, @Kaeloree !
I played BG1 without the NPC project, and I thought it was fun--kind of like IWD 1 and 2. But then I played it with the NPC project, and I was blown away by the talent of community modders. Not to mention the effort that went into developing BGTUTU. Holy cow.
Not that it means much, but I tip my hat to all modders out there. You guys absolutely rock.
I really WANTed to like NEJ because it's IWD! but the added extra stuff on top of IWD
and design decisions really turned me off to the mod. There are several places you are forced to do something or you die or you can't continue.
For one, upon starting BG2, it is impossible to continue in chateau irenicus without going to NEJ portal first. There is a message "an invisible force prevents you from going further" even if you have the exit portal key in your possession.
You die automatically a scripted death if you don't have Hrothgar in your party at one point. You get a message something like "you are missing someone!" and die. The end. This is scripted to run in the tavern of the bard's playhouse.
The level of difficulty for a party just starting out in Irenicus' dungeon is off the charts particularly in the Vale of Souls, the undead there are like super powerful undead, not the low/mid level things they are in IWD.
I'm thinking about creating my own IWD in BG2 adventure actually to get my iwd in BG2 fix.
Did you ever play tortured souls? Any feedback on that one?
I remember a post by the mod author back in the day seemingly proud of the ways he made to kill you if you didn't do what he wanted. I'll try to link if I can dig it up...
EDIT: found a thread with discussion experience with some of these mods from myself as a younger man 5 years ago... http://www.shsforums.net/topic/33358-my-big-world-experience/
Nothing wrong with recycling areas. BG2 does it
Those were recreated by hand in a completely new engine. Likewise, putting Dragon Age interiors into BG would take as much work as just recreating them from the ground up. They're two completely different engines.