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The great Shadows of Amn conspiracy!



  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,194
    A major necromancery here, but Matt Busigin has recently asked Trent Oster if Beamdog have been working on BG3 and if it has been something like the OP here:

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  • simplessimples Member Posts: 539
    Man this thread is so great. Loving the conspiracy theories.

  • ChidojuanChidojuan Member Posts: 211
    Just re-reading this, always fun to think about. A solution to a sequel immediately following Throne of Bhaal could go something like the beginning to God of War 2, where you are incredibly powerful in the beginning, but forced to relinquish that power to defeat your enemy, which could be the Illithids deity Ilsensine. The plot could then develop from there, with a quest to regain your power while thwarting the Illithid schemes along the road.

  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,099
    simples said:

    There's something i'd like to add: it is highly unlikely that firkraag/tazok was in league with the illithid. It is more probable that they were helping the githyanki locate and destroy them as red dragons and githyanki have a sort of pact to help each other out since Gith and Tiamat made a deal at some point.

    Very interesting. Meaning that Firkraag was likely going to send Tazok to clear out the illithids, hence the key.

  • wubblewubble Member Posts: 3,156
    Or maybe Firkraag knew that charname would kill tazok and take the key and he figured it'd be amusing for him to walk into a nest of illithids.

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    hey thanks, I never thought my insane ramblings and conspiracy theories would attract so much attention.
    This, along with imoen not existing are the two theories I have which I am pretty sure are accurate.

  • JonSnowIsAliveJonSnowIsAlive Member Posts: 196
    edited November 2016
    II'm very late in the tread here, but I feel not asking would be wrong: as of now, 23 november 2016, has there been any progress in converting @Cheesebelly and @ajwz's incredible and amazing findings/concept into a mod?

    Because otherwise, I honestly feel like I will start learning to mod right away in order for this project to finally come to fruition.

    On on the top of my head, I think a minor plot twist could be that the Hidden was responsible for the "illness" of Jaella (the daughter of Jan Jansen's former girlfriend). They only did it so the protagonist would take care of the seekers in their stead. Also, and yes my memory might need refreshing, but how in the world could uncle Gerhardt have possibly known about the Hidden?

    Anyway, something I feel would be interesting is that regardless of the companions you choose, the Hidden should always be able to find a way to have the protagonist seek its help (as in making Jaella ill and possessing the only cure). That would reinforce the feeling they were the ones needing your help in the first place and not the other way around.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that that business with the Hidden was no trade, but rather an elaborate ploy to make you take care of the seekers without drawing unwanted attention toward them.

    By the way, could @David_Gaider confirms us one last time that this conspiracy is all (in its entirety) of product of our imagination...? Because if it ain't so, I can't help but think about something Brian Moriarty said at the '99 Game Developers Conference: Who Buried Paul? at 50:02.

    I newer thought Baldur's Gate had actually managed to do it. That must be one of the reasons this game is so great after all.

    Edit: spelling.

  • TheMadVikingTheMadViking Member Posts: 35
    @JonSnowIsAlive. Having completed the quest for rescuing Jaella for Jan Jansen sometime ago on my latest rerun, I recall Jan mentioning that uncle Gerhart knowlegde of the hidden came from his prior career, which was something akin to a psycologist. One of his cases was a (shadow thief, can´t quite remember) that went far underground in search of treasure and went insane. Not being able to cure him, he went looking for what had done it himself. Of course he found it and also went insane.

    In my headcanon, I always thought that Gerhard found the illithid enclave in the sewers or something like that.

    Just my copper of thoughts. However this conspiracy is quite intriguing and I would love to see a mod that connected it all.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    This thread makes me sad.

    So much potential wasted in the Enhanced Edition...

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,297
    Raduziel said:

    This thread makes me sad.

    So much potential wasted in the Enhanced Edition...

    They weren't allowed by contract to alter existing elements.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    edited July 2017

    The way I see, none of this is altering but adding and any lazy lawyer could argue this, for Pete's sake.

    I was very disappointed when I realized that none of the things from Unfinished Business were added to the game, for example.

    I also was very disappointed with the lazy bridge between BG1 and BG2 (SoD). It's a good game but could be any game. I don't feel I'm playing BG when I play SoD.

    Before 2.X, nothing that came in BG was something that I didn't have already using BGT. Maybe it was a big deal for modders but as an average player, I felt that I did a bad purchase. And that's why I complain here so much about IWD not having its 2.X patch

    But that's water under the bridge. My money is far gone by now, but these little things made me not buy PSTEE.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,297
    Well no not quite. There would no way to alter existing dialogue to make any of these events connect, they would have to introduce a third party that never interacted with any of these existing quests to explain why are connected. There would be no continuity between the steps, everything would feel just as disjointed as it does now.

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Well, a translator could have been found in the Underdark maybe for the note, and voila, a new plot could unfurl. Some of the ideas are pretty out there, but there are already connections. It'd be hard as **** for a player to stumble on though, wouldn't it!

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    @ThacoBell no such thing is needed.

    Add several notes in the alien language and use @DreadKhan 's idea, for example.

    It would be just a matter of a little creative effort. No changing dialogues, but adding new NPCs or items or areas.

    Damn, I hate this thread.

  • spacejawsspacejaws Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 354
    edited September 2018
    Hey Beamdog. It’s your yearly reminder that this loose thread exists and I would pay to see it to fruition.

    Hell I’d pay if you just asked some of the original writters what was planned with ‘The Hidden’ and ‘The Twisted Rune’.

    Sounds like it could have been good flavour for a Baldur’s Gate III.

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Hey, maybe someday someone will go nuts and decide to do a BG 2 expansion (you can easily not hit the ToB cap I find, unless you really do everything in the whole game, or use a small party) and just tie up some damn loose ends and connect it to whatever BG 3 is going to be, other than having illithids in it. Which is boss.

    But seriously, if I was rich, I'd hire somebody to at least make a mega-mod to make sense of some of the loose ends, or make them more sane to find out, IE less random like a key in a Dragon's dungeon opening up a door in the fairly far away city's sewers that leads to an illithid dungeon, because WHY NOT. Someday....

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,297
    @subtledoctor I like ToB quite a lot. Its a good encap for the series.

  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,063
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @subtledoctor I like ToB quite a lot. Its a good encap for the series.

    So do I. In execution it does not quite rise to the quality of the predecessors, but as a satisfying finale it serves well.

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    edited June 2019
    I like the idea of ToB, but it desperately needs mega-modding to make it less linear. ToB is just long enough that it feels like a tacked on mini-game, and you very much follow a linear path to a mostly identical set of steps. EE has actually helped a bit by offering you some extra side-quests, depending on your party I guess, and technically you can do Watcher's Keep at any time after you are out of the opening city.

    I'm personally in favor of thinking of a way to make ToB way less linear, and with different out comes, which can have some good and some bad even, as in less than optimal wins that are less satisfying.

    More to this thread though, I think the there is lots of potential to tie up various loose ends as well, but I think ToB could have been far better if you really felt like you had some control over your destiny, as a level ~30 2nd Ed character almost certainly should. Tying them together sounds interesting though, and might allow something other than the uninspiring Melissan business that nobody seems overly fond of.

    If the Hidden and that whole enclave were only one of several under/around Athkatla, that'd be neat, and wouldn't likely be too awful to just have a few illithid dungeons and a big brain to take out, hopefully bigger than the one in the underdark, which can be a pushover for some parties. The whole business was just ever-so-close to making sense, and I think the real connection we all neglect is, of course, Lilarcor, who was no doubt hidden by the Hidden or something, because somehow it knows too much! Despite being very dumb, maybe it overheard something? Maybe you meet the guy that had been living in the sewers for awhile with his Carrion Crawler, and when he chats with Lilarcor later in his house, he reveals that there is a 2nd secret in those sewers, and how to get to another Mind Flayer enclave, which in turn can lead to more.

    Maybe even an upgrade for everyone's favourite talking sword, perhaps one that makes him pretty sharp, erm, clever? ;)

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,000
    Not to say that there isn't some room, but the world map size in ToB is definitely a constraint on adding new content.


  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,814
    elminster wrote: »
    Not to say that there isn't some room, but the world map size in ToB is definitely a constraint on adding new content.


    I don't know, that death's head thingy in the bottom left corner is just dying to be explored! ;)

  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,063
    Also Deepstone Clanhold and Forest Clearing were added by EE. And North Forest could be scrapped without much loss.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,991
    Scrapped? You mean extra content added to it?

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    elminster wrote: »
    Not to say that there isn't some room, but the world map size in ToB is definitely a constraint on adding new content.


    Couldn't you just have a sub-map, ie a location to travel to a new map?

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