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Some spells behave differently from BG to IWD?

NeoNeo Member Posts: 127
in Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition
While I played BG1/Siege of Dragonspear a few years ago when SoD came out, it has maybe been about 4 years since I last played BG2. I could be wrong but it seems like some spells behave differently from BG to IWD which surprises me because I thought that they made the EE editions match each other (I never played the original IWD, I only had the original BG1 when I was a teenager).

I'm trying out a few spells with my IWD sorcerer that I might not have picked or some spells that I think did not exist in BG2 (I don't really need a lot of defensive spells for my IWD sorc with my current party). He's now close to lvl 14.

I love the AOE damage spells but unfortunately, with a melee heavy party, I can't use these spells as often as I would like to. I hesitated when I had the choice to pick Chain Lightning (less damage output than my Skull Traps but still seemed nice). Searching on the internet, I read that people were saying that it did not bounce onto allies which would have made it great for my party. However, by saving/reloading to test it out, it does bounce onto my allies so I'm wondering if what I read was from BG and it's different in IWD or if they changed it from the original game into the EE.

I'm currently in the Luremaster part of the expansion and I bought the bracers that allow me to cast Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting (17D8) once per day as I don't think my sorcerer will even reach this spell with the entire playthrough on Core Rules. It has been a while since I last played BG2 but I am almost certain that this was one of my most used spells late game (until the super OP final spells) because it did high AOE damage and was party friendly (no friendly fire). I even looked it up online and people were saying that it was a safe spell for your party. Whenever I use it in IWD, it does damage my own party (some of them take 95dmg from it and so on). Is this a bug with the item rather than the spell itself? Does the spell behave in a different way in IWD than it does in BG2 or am I simply confused and it damages your party in BG2 as well?

I also have lvl 3 Spell Thrust and lvl 5 Breach. Now I could be wrong on this but from what I could remember, Breach was basically a stronger Spell Thrust (dispelling most defenses up to a higher level than Spell Thrust) but this time around in IWD, it seems like there are certain spells that Spell Thrust can remove that Breach cannot (like Minor Globe of Invulnerability for instance). I could very well be wrong about this one but I was wondering if this was also the case in BG.

Comments

  • StromaelStromael Member Posts: 195
    Breach has only ever been about removing combat protections, e.g., Stoneskin, Protection from Magical Weapons. Spell Thrust takes down spell protections (MGoI, GoI). These behaviours were even in the classic BG2.

    ADHW behaves differently in IWD, yes. (I remember the first time I dropped it on Kriek of Bane's party, only to decimate half my own toons.) Use it with care. ;)
  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,367
    A lot of spells behave differently in IWDEE than BG games, as they did in the original IWD.
    Many of the IWD versions more accurately reflect their PnP source material, such as Chain Lightning and Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, where they are not party friendly, or even caster-friendly.

    Secret Word is the more powerful version of Spell Thrust.
  • NeoNeo Member Posts: 127
    Thanks for the info! I was partly curious about these also because I was thinking of possibly playing BG2 again eventually so it could affect some of my spell choices if I were to have a sorcerer again.
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,083
    Yes, it is WAI that some IWD spells function differently than their BG/BG2 counterparts. Two especially painful examples are Mordenkainen's Sword and Breach (game-changers in BG2 but nearly useless in IWD).
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    Although Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting does damage the party in Icewind Dale, its damage keeps increasing up to 30d8 damage at level 30 (whereas ADHW in Baldur's Gate 2 only did up to 20d8 damage at level 20).
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,723
    Check out these threads and comments in them:

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/36159/the-list-of-new-arcane-spells-in-iwdee-if-compared-to-bgee-bg2ee-and-some-changes-to-other-spells
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/36162/the-list-of-new-divine-spells-in-iwdee-if-compared-to-bgee-bg2ee-and-some-changes-to-other-spells
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    For the most part, iwd spells are more loyal to pen and paper rules. For example, raise dead won't work on elves in iwd. And as you noticed, horrid wilting damages party. I think chain lightning may also do the same in iwd. Chromatic orb does not insta kill in iwd, but can be avoided with a save (no bonus to save)

    One odd thing: Iwd touch-spells like shocking grasp, cause light/medium/critical wounds, harm, slay living, destruction etc. you need to cast these spells on a target in touch range. In bg games these spells create a magical weapon and you need to roll to hit a target. (cause light/medium wounds and destruction spells are absent in bg)

    Also, clerical spells are tied to alignment in iwd, evil clerics can not raise dead or good clerics can not cast slay living, that sort of thing. A very important thing to consider when creating a cleric.
  • NeoNeo Member Posts: 127
    Yea, I just completed my IWD playthrough (including the expansion on Core Rules). I think my sorcerer was lvl 17, close to 18 at the end but despite being OP (project image + scrolls of time stop and such), I didn't find him to be too useful on the last 2 fights (Punab and the Demon). Both bosses were resisting his damage spells (like sequencer skull trap x3) taking 0 damage from him even if I was casting lower resistance on them (x2 even sometimes), Breach and Thrust. His stronger dmg spells weren't party friendly (Horrid Wilting, Chain Lightning, Skull trap, clouds, acid rain, etc.) leaving him with little more than trying to debuff enemies with blind or stunning them when they were almost dead. I'm not even sure how I would manage to solo the game with a solo Sorcerer. I'm guessing the sword summon but I don't know if I could set them up and even if I did, I doubt they would deal as much damage as my geared and buffed Berserker and Undead Hunter did (and wouldn't have all the heals, summons, buffs, cloud clearing, dispell magic, etc. from not having the cleric, cleric-thief and druid).

    If I remember well, my sorcerer was doing most of the job in my BG2 playthrough by the end to the point where the other members were mostly there as support but he obviously was higher lvl (close to 30 I think). Still, having at least Horrid Wilting that I could cast on top of my party was major until the other OP spells used during time stop at the end.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    I guess I will have to learn this stuff when I play IWD:EE, whenever that will be...
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