Insanity at its finest. This is precisely among the lines of what I expected would happen, when Trump was still running for president in 2016. And precisely why populist politicians should not be presidents (even though they *should* be sitting in parliament to represent their people).
And precisely why I kept saying that leftist politics with all their blind hatred towards "straight white men" should be toned down, lest people get fed up with it and elect themselves a Trump :facepalm:
Insanity at its finest. This is precisely among the lines of what I expected would happen, when Trump was still running for president in 2016. And precisely why populist politicians should not be presidents (even though they *should* be sitting in parliament to represent their people).
And precisely why I kept saying that leftist politics with all their blind hatred towards "straight white men" should be toned down, lest people get fed up with it and elect themselves a Trump :facepalm:
Ah yes. I forgot. The right cannot be held responsible for any of their own actions. It must always be the fault of the left that provokes the right.
Very "She shouldnt have gone out dressed like that".
"Progressives" are so gung-ho about social justice yet they balk everytime Trump is involved in something that would potentially help others. The blinders are on tight.
There are no Transgenders, Gays, Blacks or Woman of power in Islamic Dictatorships 'Oh but orange man bomb der herpaderp. Cnn told me Muslim gonna get me back because Orange mans.'
Told you guys 2020 was gonna be good, get the popcorn ready.
I pray for all the Persians in Iran and all over the world. Such a beautiful and noble people being sacrificed by a desert religion that does not even respect their women.
I hope that there is a war and that finally Persians can live free from this oppressive Fascist/Communist regime, masquerading as Godly men.
Insanity at its finest. This is precisely among the lines of what I expected would happen, when Trump was still running for president in 2016. And precisely why populist politicians should not be presidents (even though they *should* be sitting in parliament to represent their people).
And precisely why I kept saying that leftist politics with all their blind hatred towards "straight white men" should be toned down, lest people get fed up with it and elect themselves a Trump :facepalm:
Blame the left for granting to the power of the President the precise kind of power that he now uses to murder Iranian war heroes, their obvious hatred of whites has little to do with this. When the past president started the policy of assassination by order of the President they said and did very little and allowed him to get away with it. Their howling over every little thing for the past 3 year shows they are more than capable of some moral outrage.
But this is all in the past. Pointing fingers at a bipartisan warmongering policy gets us nowhere. The present fact is that we're likely to get in yet another lengthy, destabilizing conflict in the mid East, the exact kind of thing we were promised to start moving away from.
I'm not letting this Pence thing go. He is a living embodiment of the ignorance of the American public on this issue, becaue he is DELIBERATELY lying to them. There is absolutely no way Soleimani, an Iranian Shiite, was providing material support to a group of Sunnis from Saudi Arabia. It's absurd. File this under "they're all brown and Muslim" category. This country is so fucking DUMB it defies belief.
I would assume, @WarChiefZeke, that you view this as a significant betrayal by Trump. However, I do NOT get the sense that what I'll call the "new right" has any problem with this whatsoever. So what are you seeing?? There was NO right-wing anti-war faction in 2003. If there is one now perhaps we can actually stop this.
I would assume, @WarChiefZeke, that you view this as a significant betrayal by Trump. However, I do NOT get the sense that what I'll call the "new right" has any problem with this whatsoever. So what are you seeing?? There was NO right-wing anti-war faction in 2003. If there is one now perhaps we can actually stop this.
All I see in my feed are anti war voices and I follow almost exclusively "new right" people. The only ones I see supporting it are older, standard GOP types and even they are few and far between. I would feel comfortable saying a majority on the right leaning side oppose war.
Even a majority of Republican *veterans* oppose the old mid East wars now, according to pew, which I thought was very telling for the general direction of public opinion among the right.
"Progressives" are so gung-ho about social justice yet they balk everytime Trump is involved in something that would potentially help others. The blinders are on tight.
There are no Transgenders, Gays, Blacks or Woman of power in Islamic Dictatorships 'Oh but orange man bomb der herpaderp. Cnn told me Muslim gonna get me back because Orange mans.'
Told you guys 2020 was gonna be good, get the popcorn ready.
The problem is, it's very unlikely that even if regime change were to occur. Moreover, making an attempt to do so will likely galvanize support of Iran's citizens for the incumbent government, and, even if they were to succeed, could easily result in a government that's just as autocratic as any of the post revolution administrations.
Besides, we all know why Trump is doing this...and it ain't to support the rights of transgender or LBGT in Iran.
I have to move my primary support fully to Bernie Sanders at this point. He is the only one left with moral clarity on this issue. And he'd be wise to move off economics for the time-being and harvest the anti-war vote to it's full potential.
He is literally the only candiate I've ever seen who refers to the Palestinians like they are human beings. If this is "love", I'm pretty sure Netanyahu doesn't think much of it:
Stop searching for a new messiah. You are who you have been waiting for.
Supporting someone who was against the Iraq War from the beginning, who led the fight against the funding of the Saudi war in Yemen, and who came out unequivocally against this action immediately last night with no caveats isn't really "looking for a savior". Someone has to be President. Might as well be the guy who has been on the right side of history in these matters for two decades.
Bernie Sanders and Yang both have anti war tendencies and have broad appeal to young conservatives as well. Dems should really field more candidates like that and shift the political dialogue.
If Trump or Pence had evidence that this Iranian guy was responsible for 10 of the 12 (?) 9/11 hijackers FROM SAUDI ARABIA then he should have sought permission from Congress to declare war because killing the #2 Iranian leader/general can't be let go and will all but lead to war. Of course, there is no evidence.
You know how Trump can't let any real or imagined insult go? The Iranians are the same way. They remain in power through fear of how tough they are. Letting this go is weakness and would open them up to revolt at home because they aren't tough enough. Iranian politicial opportunists would attack their weakness which would weaken the state's grip on everyday citizens. You need fear to keep people in line in these right wing societies.
If Iran bombed General Kelly or something you think America would just sit by and do nothing. Of course not.
Personally, I think nothing major will happen. Iran has to know they have nothing to gain unless they can get the UN on their side maybe. The US has even less to gain. Iran is on a whole different level than Kuwait or even Iraq. Their population is well over 100 million and the land mass is huge! I expect some saber rattling and maybe a few rockets launched at Israel and that's about it.
No candidate that wants world peace will ever win the Presidency of the United States, bad for business.
Bernie is just like Trump, will say and do anything to get elected then flip for the 'Chosen One' title.
Don't be fools every four years, the right person will never win.
Just like fanatical religious nuts the American political fervor is at a fever pitch. Nothing good will ever come of it. There is no one coming to save you. This is the New World, a giant show to keep everyone from knowing their real enemy.
No candidate that wants world peace will ever win the Presidency of the United States, bad for business.
Bernie is just like Trump, will say and do anything to get elected then flip for the 'Chosen One' title.
Don't be fools every four years, the right person will never win.
Just like fanatical religious nuts the American political fervor is at a fever pitch. Nothing good will ever come of it. There is no one coming to save you. This is the New World, a giant show to keep everyone from knowing their real enemy.
I Googled "The Real Enemy" and here's what was returned to me (1st 3 pages, in no particular order):
Trump, Obama, Satan, fake news, Trump's rhetoric, our own anger & hatred, the Press, China, capitalism, the State, silence, American citizens, prejudice, Salafi-jihadist movement, ignorance, sugar, liberals, advertising, carbon
Personally, I think nothing major will happen. Iran has to know they have nothing to gain unless they can get the UN on their side maybe. The US has even less to gain. Iran is on a whole different level than Kuwait or even Iraq. Their population is well over 100 million and the land mass is huge! I expect some saber rattling and maybe a few rockets launched at Israel and that's about it.
That's a Tuesday in the Middle East...
Try turning it round. If Iran had just assassinated Pence or Pompeo and confirmed having done that on Twitter, would it be credible for the US to just ignore that? Personally that seems unthinkable to me - and so is the idea that Iran will do nothing.
I agree that it's relatively unlikely that Iran will openly retaliate, though given the extreme provocation that must be a possibility. More likely is that they will continue with the policies of 'asymmetric warfare' they've used for many years and stage attacks either covertly or through proxies. That would allow them to say "that wasn't us", while at the same time everyone in the world will know it was ...
What will be different in future though is that Iranian attacks on the US thus far have been both low level and specifically aimed at the position in the Middle East. Other than the Middle East, the Iranians have been helping the US to suppress terrorism for a long time now. Given the extent of the paranoia about terrorism there's been in the West since 9/11, having a major state actor switch from suppressing to actively encouraging terrorism would be likely to have a substantial impact - on public fears and opinions if nothing else.
Personally, I think nothing major will happen. Iran has to know they have nothing to gain unless they can get the UN on their side maybe. The US has even less to gain. Iran is on a whole different level than Kuwait or even Iraq. Their population is well over 100 million and the land mass is huge! I expect some saber rattling and maybe a few rockets launched at Israel and that's about it.
That's a Tuesday in the Middle East...
Try turning it round. If Iran had just assassinated Pence or Pompeo and confirmed having done that on Twitter, would it be credible for the US to just ignore that? Personally that seems unthinkable to me - and so is the idea that Iran will do nothing.
I agree that it's relatively unlikely that Iran will openly retaliate, though given the extreme provocation that must be a possibility. More likely is that they will continue with the policies of 'asymmetric warfare' they've used for many years and stage attacks either covertly or through proxies. That would allow them to say "that wasn't us", while at the same time everyone in the world will know it was ...
What will be different in future though is that Iranian attacks on the US thus far have been both low level and specifically aimed at the position in the Middle East. Other than the Middle East, the Iranians have been helping the US to suppress terrorism for a long time now. Given the extent of the paranoia about terrorism there's been in the West since 9/11, having a major state actor switch from suppressing to actively encouraging terrorism would be likely to have a substantial impact - on public fears and opinions if nothing else.
To say nothing of being able to disrupt global oil shipments by shutting down the Strait of Hormuz. See how long Americans stand for $5.00/gallon gas nationwide. If they really want to stick it to us, that is the way. Take away our comforts.
Personally, I think nothing major will happen. Iran has to know they have nothing to gain unless they can get the UN on their side maybe. The US has even less to gain. Iran is on a whole different level than Kuwait or even Iraq. Their population is well over 100 million and the land mass is huge! I expect some saber rattling and maybe a few rockets launched at Israel and that's about it.
That's a Tuesday in the Middle East...
Try turning it round. If Iran had just assassinated Pence or Pompeo and confirmed having done that on Twitter, would it be credible for the US to just ignore that? Personally that seems unthinkable to me - and so is the idea that Iran will do nothing.
I agree that it's relatively unlikely that Iran will openly retaliate, though given the extreme provocation that must be a possibility. More likely is that they will continue with the policies of 'asymmetric warfare' they've used for many years and stage attacks either covertly or through proxies. That would allow them to say "that wasn't us", while at the same time everyone in the world will know it was ...
What will be different in future though is that Iranian attacks on the US thus far have been both low level and specifically aimed at the position in the Middle East. Other than the Middle East, the Iranians have been helping the US to suppress terrorism for a long time now. Given the extent of the paranoia about terrorism there's been in the West since 9/11, having a major state actor switch from suppressing to actively encouraging terrorism would be likely to have a substantial impact - on public fears and opinions if nothing else.
To say nothing of being able to disrupt global oil shipments by shutting down the Strait of Hormuz. See how long Americans stand for $5.00/gallon gas nationwide. If they really want to stick it to us, that is the way. Take away our comforts.
Possible, but they're pretty short of foreign currency already. In addition I think they would prefer to take actions that specifically target the US rather than other countries more generally - and the US gets a relatively small amount of its oil from the Gulf anyway.
Personally, I think nothing major will happen. Iran has to know they have nothing to gain unless they can get the UN on their side maybe. The US has even less to gain. Iran is on a whole different level than Kuwait or even Iraq. Their population is well over 100 million and the land mass is huge! I expect some saber rattling and maybe a few rockets launched at Israel and that's about it.
That's a Tuesday in the Middle East...
Try turning it round. If Iran had just assassinated Pence or Pompeo and confirmed having done that on Twitter, would it be credible for the US to just ignore that? Personally that seems unthinkable to me - and so is the idea that Iran will do nothing.
I agree that it's relatively unlikely that Iran will openly retaliate, though given the extreme provocation that must be a possibility. More likely is that they will continue with the policies of 'asymmetric warfare' they've used for many years and stage attacks either covertly or through proxies. That would allow them to say "that wasn't us", while at the same time everyone in the world will know it was ...
What will be different in future though is that Iranian attacks on the US thus far have been both low level and specifically aimed at the position in the Middle East. Other than the Middle East, the Iranians have been helping the US to suppress terrorism for a long time now. Given the extent of the paranoia about terrorism there's been in the West since 9/11, having a major state actor switch from suppressing to actively encouraging terrorism would be likely to have a substantial impact - on public fears and opinions if nothing else.
To say nothing of being able to disrupt global oil shipments by shutting down the Strait of Hormuz. See how long Americans stand for $5.00/gallon gas nationwide. If they really want to stick it to us, that is the way. Take away our comforts.
They can't do that to us now, we don't really need their oil at the moment. In fact, they'd probably drive up the profits of our domestic oil companies. How is that for irony? They can disrupt oil shipments to China if they want to though. I doubt that they will.
As many would ideas to retaliate that we're thinking up here they're doing the same. Again, in their macho culture it is death to appear weak so they can't let this stand.
Comments
And precisely why I kept saying that leftist politics with all their blind hatred towards "straight white men" should be toned down, lest people get fed up with it and elect themselves a Trump :facepalm:
Ah yes. I forgot. The right cannot be held responsible for any of their own actions. It must always be the fault of the left that provokes the right.
Very "She shouldnt have gone out dressed like that".
Converting to Christianity or Atheism would be the same poison. Think bigger, the majority of Persians already do.
There are no Transgenders, Gays, Blacks or Woman of power in Islamic Dictatorships 'Oh but orange man bomb der herpaderp. Cnn told me Muslim gonna get me back because Orange mans.'
Told you guys 2020 was gonna be good, get the popcorn ready.
In any event, freedom of religion is a Universal Human Right as promulgated by the UN, of which the USA is a signatory.
Blame the left for granting to the power of the President the precise kind of power that he now uses to murder Iranian war heroes, their obvious hatred of whites has little to do with this. When the past president started the policy of assassination by order of the President they said and did very little and allowed him to get away with it. Their howling over every little thing for the past 3 year shows they are more than capable of some moral outrage.
But this is all in the past. Pointing fingers at a bipartisan warmongering policy gets us nowhere. The present fact is that we're likely to get in yet another lengthy, destabilizing conflict in the mid East, the exact kind of thing we were promised to start moving away from.
Just leave that part of the world alone already.
All I see in my feed are anti war voices and I follow almost exclusively "new right" people. The only ones I see supporting it are older, standard GOP types and even they are few and far between. I would feel comfortable saying a majority on the right leaning side oppose war.
Even a majority of Republican *veterans* oppose the old mid East wars now, according to pew, which I thought was very telling for the general direction of public opinion among the right.
The problem is, it's very unlikely that even if regime change were to occur. Moreover, making an attempt to do so will likely galvanize support of Iran's citizens for the incumbent government, and, even if they were to succeed, could easily result in a government that's just as autocratic as any of the post revolution administrations.
Besides, we all know why Trump is doing this...and it ain't to support the rights of transgender or LBGT in Iran.
It doesn't matter if you are Left or right, when Israel says America go to War, the serfs march.
Think again, Bernie loves BiBi.
He is literally the only candiate I've ever seen who refers to the Palestinians like they are human beings. If this is "love", I'm pretty sure Netanyahu doesn't think much of it:
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/10/30/bernie-sanders-says-give-aid-gaza-and-calling-out-netanyahus-racist-government-isnt
Stop searching for a new messiah. You are who you have been waiting for.
Supporting someone who was against the Iraq War from the beginning, who led the fight against the funding of the Saudi war in Yemen, and who came out unequivocally against this action immediately last night with no caveats isn't really "looking for a savior". Someone has to be President. Might as well be the guy who has been on the right side of history in these matters for two decades.
You know how Trump can't let any real or imagined insult go? The Iranians are the same way. They remain in power through fear of how tough they are. Letting this go is weakness and would open them up to revolt at home because they aren't tough enough. Iranian politicial opportunists would attack their weakness which would weaken the state's grip on everyday citizens. You need fear to keep people in line in these right wing societies.
If Iran bombed General Kelly or something you think America would just sit by and do nothing. Of course not.
That's a Tuesday in the Middle East...
No candidate that wants world peace will ever win the Presidency of the United States, bad for business.
Bernie is just like Trump, will say and do anything to get elected then flip for the 'Chosen One' title.
Don't be fools every four years, the right person will never win.
Just like fanatical religious nuts the American political fervor is at a fever pitch. Nothing good will ever come of it. There is no one coming to save you. This is the New World, a giant show to keep everyone from knowing their real enemy.
I Googled "The Real Enemy" and here's what was returned to me (1st 3 pages, in no particular order):
Trump, Obama, Satan, fake news, Trump's rhetoric, our own anger & hatred, the Press, China, capitalism, the State, silence, American citizens, prejudice, Salafi-jihadist movement, ignorance, sugar, liberals, advertising, carbon
Any of those what you had in mind?
Sugar, definitely sugar.
I knew it!
Wait, there's carbon in sugar. Coincidence?
Try turning it round. If Iran had just assassinated Pence or Pompeo and confirmed having done that on Twitter, would it be credible for the US to just ignore that? Personally that seems unthinkable to me - and so is the idea that Iran will do nothing.
I agree that it's relatively unlikely that Iran will openly retaliate, though given the extreme provocation that must be a possibility. More likely is that they will continue with the policies of 'asymmetric warfare' they've used for many years and stage attacks either covertly or through proxies. That would allow them to say "that wasn't us", while at the same time everyone in the world will know it was ...
What will be different in future though is that Iranian attacks on the US thus far have been both low level and specifically aimed at the position in the Middle East. Other than the Middle East, the Iranians have been helping the US to suppress terrorism for a long time now. Given the extent of the paranoia about terrorism there's been in the West since 9/11, having a major state actor switch from suppressing to actively encouraging terrorism would be likely to have a substantial impact - on public fears and opinions if nothing else.
To say nothing of being able to disrupt global oil shipments by shutting down the Strait of Hormuz. See how long Americans stand for $5.00/gallon gas nationwide. If they really want to stick it to us, that is the way. Take away our comforts.
Possible, but they're pretty short of foreign currency already. In addition I think they would prefer to take actions that specifically target the US rather than other countries more generally - and the US gets a relatively small amount of its oil from the Gulf anyway.
Wow, people really are losing it now. Reality, fantasy, perception, what's the difference anymore? Why does everybody seem to need something to fear?
They can't do that to us now, we don't really need their oil at the moment. In fact, they'd probably drive up the profits of our domestic oil companies. How is that for irony? They can disrupt oil shipments to China if they want to though. I doubt that they will.