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The Politics Thread

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Comments

  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    edited March 12
    Enforcing quarantine has nothing to do with authoritarianism or anarchism (which some seem to confuse for libertarianism). It's just a natural response to emergency, which is the reason government exists in the first place.

    Negligence is everywhere, though... we had a woman with suspected corona escape from a hospital, then brought into court room and sent back into quarantine. That is, instead of hunting the stupid cow down with tazers they brought her into gathering of people to (potentially) infect even more :facepalm: Human rights, my ass. Who gives a damn when a disease is on the loose.

    jjstraka34ThacoBellMaleficentOne
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,003
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Once a vaccine for corona is developed--this is only a matter of time--it is highly unlikely that any anti-vaxxer will be able to choose not to comply.

    Really? I can imagine the US ignoring constitutional protections during a short-term emergency. However, that's rather different to forcing individuals to take particular treatments in the longer term (in an environment where desired treatments are not freely available to the public) - I find it a bit hard to see that being done.

    Like I said on the other thread, this statistically anomalous event will cause other statistically anomalous events as both citizens and governent officials react out of uncertainty and panic.

    *************

    When Sanders and Biden have their one-on-one debate, Sanders should use the tactic I described earlier: mention Hunter as many times as possible just to get Joe upset enough to melt down on stage. Once that occurs, he should calmly ask "is this the person you want as your President?".

    smeagolheart
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,493
    edited March 12
    The thing is, I'm now fairly certain this is Trump's Waterloo. And after waiting four years for it to happen, it's impossible to even take any pleasure in that. Saying "I told you so" seems pointless and inconsequential:



    Mitch McConnell has just announced that the Senate is going on RECESS and won't take up the House bill until they return. The Republican Party is now running a death cult and we're all forced members. We're going to have to not only fight the virus, but them as well to get through this. This country is an insane asylum. Declare a national emergency now. Pass a blank check spending bill now. Overwhelmingly measures are now absolutely necessary. Half-steps won't do. We aren't even take quarter-steps. Fuck.

    ThacoBell
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,364
    BREAKING A Brazilian official who met President Trump and Vice President Pence at Mar-a-Lago on Saturday has tested positive for coronavirus. Fabio Wajngarten, a spokesman for Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, tested positive for covid-19, Brazilian officials said. Wajngarten stood next to Trump and Pence, a photograph taken in Florida shows. Trump said he “isn’t concerned” about the development, according to a White House pool report.

    Something tells me the germaphobe Trump is going to self quarantine for a month or two until this blows over.

    MathsorcererMaleficentOne
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,230
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Once a vaccine for corona is developed--this is only a matter of time--it is highly unlikely that any anti-vaxxer will be able to choose not to comply.

    Really? I can imagine the US ignoring constitutional protections during a short-term emergency. However, that's rather different to forcing individuals to take particular treatments in the longer term (in an environment where desired treatments are not freely available to the public) - I find it a bit hard to see that being done.

    Like I said on the other thread, this statistically anomalous event will cause other statistically anomalous events as both citizens and governent officials react out of uncertainty and panic.

    And I agree with you that there could well be pretty draconian measures in the short term. Sustaining sufficient panic to keep those going until a vaccine is available (likely to be over a year) is a very different matter though. By that stage the costs of the protective measures will be obvious and once those are weighed against the pretty marginal benefits I don't see any significant prospect that emergency measures will continue.

    Trump has been in close contact with a member of a Brazilian delegation who has just tested positive. Bolsanaro is being closely monitored as a result of this, but Trump says he's not worried ...
    gzrfk34kpaoi.jpg

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,493
    edited March 12
    deltago wrote: »
    BREAKING A Brazilian official who met President Trump and Vice President Pence at Mar-a-Lago on Saturday has tested positive for coronavirus. Fabio Wajngarten, a spokesman for Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, tested positive for covid-19, Brazilian officials said. Wajngarten stood next to Trump and Pence, a photograph taken in Florida shows. Trump said he “isn’t concerned” about the development, according to a White House pool report.

    Something tells me the germaphobe Trump is going to self quarantine for a month or two until this blows over.

    Trudeau now in self-quarantine after his wife was exposed.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,668
    deltago wrote: »
    BREAKING A Brazilian official who met President Trump and Vice President Pence at Mar-a-Lago on Saturday has tested positive for coronavirus. Fabio Wajngarten, a spokesman for Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, tested positive for covid-19, Brazilian officials said. Wajngarten stood next to Trump and Pence, a photograph taken in Florida shows. Trump said he “isn’t concerned” about the development, according to a White House pool report.

    Something tells me the germaphobe Trump is going to self quarantine for a month or two until this blows over.

    If Trump gets it, he would not tell us. He loves secrecy when it is convenient to his fake image as a tough guy.

    Many people were saying he seemed out of breath and stuff in his televised address last night.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,493
    This is also time to seriously discuss Andrew Yang's plan of a universal basic income on a temporary basis, because we may need it. Will that happen?? Of course not. I feel like no one has a contingency plan for anything right now. The Administration, family, work.....no one.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,003
    edited March 12
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Overwhelmingly measures are now absolutely necessary. Half-steps won't do. We aren't even take quarter-steps. Fuck.

    What things would you like to see happen?

    edit/add: incidentally, both Princess and Viking cruise lines have suspended all cruises at this time.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,493
    edited March 12
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Overwhelmingly measures are now absolutely necessary. Half-steps won't do. We aren't even take quarter-steps. Fuck.

    What things would you like to see happen?

    edit/add: incidentally, both Princess and Viking cruise lines have suspended all cruises at this time.

    Where to even begin. Based on all available data, we need to ramp up testing to a degree where it probably isn't even possible NOW. If we don't know the true extent of the spread, we can't slow it. If we don't, we're Italy by the end of March. And when I say that, I mean hospitals totally stressed to the breaking point and unable to handle intake of patients. A massive spending bill from Congress that includes paid sick leave for any worker. Local officials (or any official who has the power) issuing mandatory curfews and quarantines in cluster areas.

    All public gatherings in the country over 100 banned until at least May. All colleges should shut down for the year. I'd say all schools should as well, but that then gives us the problem of parents who can't go to work. Which is where are capitalist society reveals it's major weakness. We can't stop the spread now. We have to SLOW it so hospitals don't get overrun. But, hey, the Senate is going on recess for two weeks.

    And what the fuck does this mean??:


    All available evidence points to this transferring from an animal to a human sometime in late November. No one "inflicted it" on us. This is biology. This is science. And it's coming for us.

    MathsorcererThacoBellsmeagolheart
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,003
    Many universities--well, the ones here in Texas, at least--are extending spring break for another week *and* they are moving to virtual classroom settings for the rest of the year, whenever possible (math, foreign language, or literature classes can always be virtual only; hands-on laboratory settings cannot be virtual). Many sporting or other large events are either canceling or not allowing the public to attend--some basketball games will be played to empty arenas, the Houston rodeo and SXSW were canceled, etc. Mayors and governors are going to start increasing their calls to restrict public gatherings to 100 people or less.

    If they start shuttering schools--most of which could transition to virtual classes, as well--they will start shuttering daycares, as well. You think the spread will slow by May? What if it lasts longer than that? What if it subsides then comes back in the fall? Would you support the National Guard implementing quasi-martial law?

    As far as "inflicted" it....*whew* that is a conspiracy theory, for certain. Yes, this strain of coronavirus started in China--as recently as only two months ago some CNN commentators were still calling it "Wuhan flu" or "Chinese corona virus", before referencing its point of origin became "racist"--but it was most definitely *not* "manufactured". Of course, Chinese State media is suggesting that the United States manufactured it then released it in China to embarrass them, so the conspiracy theory sword cuts both ways.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,493
    Many universities--well, the ones here in Texas, at least--are extending spring break for another week *and* they are moving to virtual classroom settings for the rest of the year, whenever possible (math, foreign language, or literature classes can always be virtual only; hands-on laboratory settings cannot be virtual). Many sporting or other large events are either canceling or not allowing the public to attend--some basketball games will be played to empty arenas, the Houston rodeo and SXSW were canceled, etc. Mayors and governors are going to start increasing their calls to restrict public gatherings to 100 people or less.

    If they start shuttering schools--most of which could transition to virtual classes, as well--they will start shuttering daycares, as well. You think the spread will slow by May? What if it lasts longer than that? What if it subsides then comes back in the fall? Would you support the National Guard implementing quasi-martial law?

    As far as "inflicted" it....*whew* that is a conspiracy theory, for certain. Yes, this strain of coronavirus started in China--as recently as only two months ago some CNN commentators were still calling it "Wuhan flu" or "Chinese corona virus", before referencing its point of origin became "racist"--but it was most definitely *not* "manufactured". Of course, Chinese State media is suggesting that the United States manufactured it then released it in China to embarrass them, so the conspiracy theory sword cuts both ways.

    Martial law is a larger step. And giving Trump that power so close to the election?? Well, at that point you would see the ultimate manifestation of his ability to profit off his own incompetence. And that is something we should be thinking about too. For the good of the country, Trump should turn over all planning and authority on this to the best experts the country has to offer and lock himself in a room for two months and just GO AWAY. Of course, that will never happen. He's still lying about testing capacity as recently as an hour ago.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,364
    deltago wrote: »
    BREAKING A Brazilian official who met President Trump and Vice President Pence at Mar-a-Lago on Saturday has tested positive for coronavirus. Fabio Wajngarten, a spokesman for Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, tested positive for covid-19, Brazilian officials said. Wajngarten stood next to Trump and Pence, a photograph taken in Florida shows. Trump said he “isn’t concerned” about the development, according to a White House pool report.

    Something tells me the germaphobe Trump is going to self quarantine for a month or two until this blows over.

    If Trump gets it, he would not tell us. He loves secrecy when it is convenient to his fake image as a tough guy.

    Many people were saying he seemed out of breath and stuff in his televised address last night.

    I know that. But it is now two close calls for him. Even if he didn’t get it from the Brazilian diplomat, he is going to shut down all contact with him until this thing is over.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,003
    edited March 12
    Fortunately, mobilizing the National Guard is the authority of State governors, not the POTUS. Still...if Trump deployed the military here and that was successful at stopping the spread of corona, I don't think the people who would otherwise be thankful that the spread got stopped would be glad at seeing the military rolling down their neighborhood street.

    In one sense, it is good that it is hitting now as opposed to 6 months from now, lest people be tempted to suspend the election as a way to stop the advance of the outbreak.
    deltago wrote: »
    I know that. But it is now two close calls for him. Even if he didn’t get it from the Brazilian diplomat, he is going to shut down all contact with him until this thing is over.

    Interesting idea. If Trump sequesters himself and doesn't have public appearances, can he still really be an effective POTUS via video broadcasts only? How would we *know* that it is him on the broadcast? ... No, deepfakes aren't *that* good yet.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,493
    Jair Bolsanaro is positive for the virus. Shook hands with Trump last week.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,003
    Presuming that a test on himself returns positive, what is the likelihood that Trump openly admits receiving a positive test result?

    smeagolheart
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,364
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Jair Bolsanaro is positive for the virus. Shook hands with Trump last week.

    Fabio Wajngarten shook his hand. He is part of Bolsanaro’s government.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,364
    Presuming that a test on himself returns positive, what is the likelihood that Trump openly admits receiving a positive test result?

    Zero. And if anyone asks where he is “Pence has taken charge of the Coronavirus outbreak, any concerns will be addressed by him all others by press security Stephanie”

    Mathsorcerer
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,493
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 931
    deltago wrote: »
    Reread the first 7 words of my post again. But he has as much chance of winning as the Ottawa Senators have of making the NHL playoffs. Not mathematically eliminated, but aren’t making it regardless. Or if Ottawa is too extreme of an example, Montreal Canadiens.

    Please reread my post again. By the numbers he could easily make up the deficit if Biden cratered - that is just an unlikely (not impossible) scenario, due to how Democratic primaries are proportional rather than winner-take-all. Also, "I can't win" is not a good reason by itself not to run because there are things to accomplish besides winning, and it does not necessarily benefit the party to halt the race.

    TBH, Biden could probably use more practice campaigning and reaching out to people who don't support him already before the actual election.

    smeagolheart
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,493
    edited March 12
    Actual leadership, as was Biden's address earlier today:


    By the way, the Fed just dumped 1.5 TRILLION dollars into the banks to help try to shore up financial fears. Didn't work. Stocks had their worst day in 33 years. Point being, we can afford to do tons of shit. We just choose to give it all to the rich.

    NHL season suspended. NCAA Tournament outright cancelled. Disneyland closed. Schools in Ohio closed for 3 weeks. Officials in Ohio believe up to 1% of the population are currently carriers, but that no one knows for certain because of lack of testing capacity.

    smeagolheartMaleficentOneThacoBell
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,079
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Actual leadership, as was Biden's address earlier today:


    By the way, the Fed just dumped 1.5 TRILLION dollars into the banks to help try to shore up financial fears. Didn't work. Stocks had their worst day in 33 years. Point being, we can afford to do tons of shit. We just choose to give it all to the rich.

    NHL season suspended. NCAA Tournament outright cancelled. Disneyland closed. Schools in Ohio closed for 3 weeks. Officials in Ohio believe up to 1% of the population are currently carriers, but that no one knows for certain because of lack of testing capacity.

    But @jjstraka34 - how can we ever afford to pay for food stamps? The numbers just don’t add up! /s

    jjstraka34smeagolheartMaleficentOneThacoBell
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,003
    edited March 12
    I have mentioned this before--having a fiat currency means the government can just issue money to pay for things...as long as it restricts the money supply later via taxation. Anyway....are you certain it was $1 trillion? I am not seeing that number anywhere.

    edit/add: Never mind--I just saw the news story. It's been busy here today. You know, markets would not be on such a wild roller coaster ride if investors would quit reacting out of fear and panic, like so many of them do *every time* an anomalous event occurs. The only people who lost their shirts in 1987, the late 90s, and 2008 were the ones who panic-sold.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,364
    Add Ontario to the list of places that is closing publicly funded schools for 2 weeks because of the Coronavirus. 3 weeks if you count the conveniently timed March Break.

    Balrog99
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,082
    West Point is delaying cadets coming back from Spring Break. I guess the military is in on this anti-Trump conspiracy now too. This is escalating far beyond Trump's fantasy land at this point...

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,493
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    West Point is delaying cadets coming back from Spring Break. I guess the military is in on this anti-Trump conspiracy now too. This is escalating far beyond Trump's fantasy land at this point...

    It's not just Trump, and that is what concerns me over everything. A SIGNIFICANT portion of the population thinks this is a media conspiracy meant to tank the stock market and take Trump down. I'm not sure how you effectively try to mitigate this when a massive number of people think it isn't real.

    Balrog99ThacoBell
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,082
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    West Point is delaying cadets coming back from Spring Break. I guess the military is in on this anti-Trump conspiracy now too. This is escalating far beyond Trump's fantasy land at this point...

    It's not just Trump, and that is what concerns me over everything. A SIGNIFICANT portion of the population thinks this is a media conspiracy meant to tank the stock market and take Trump down. I'm not sure how you effectively try to mitigate this when a massive number of people think it isn't real.

    I agree. Most of these people will wake up now I think, but these are the very people that will panic once their fantasy bubble is broken...

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,493
    edited March 13
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    West Point is delaying cadets coming back from Spring Break. I guess the military is in on this anti-Trump conspiracy now too. This is escalating far beyond Trump's fantasy land at this point...

    It's not just Trump, and that is what concerns me over everything. A SIGNIFICANT portion of the population thinks this is a media conspiracy meant to tank the stock market and take Trump down. I'm not sure how you effectively try to mitigate this when a massive number of people think it isn't real.

    I agree. Most of these people will wake up now I think, but these are the very people that will panic once their fantasy bubble is broken...

    At this point it will take a death in the family at minimum. Of what I'm reading of the transcripts from Hannity's show tonight, he and Tom Cotton seem to be insinuating that Hunter Biden may have teamed up with the Chinese government to manufacture this crisis. FOX News is going to get people killed. The sad irony is, it will mostly be the demographic most likely to be their viewers.

    Billion dollar companies like the NBA and Disney are not doing this because the media scared them into it. They stand to lose untold amounts of money. They don't have a choice.

    Balrog99ThacoBell
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,082
    edited March 13
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    West Point is delaying cadets coming back from Spring Break. I guess the military is in on this anti-Trump conspiracy now too. This is escalating far beyond Trump's fantasy land at this point...

    It's not just Trump, and that is what concerns me over everything. A SIGNIFICANT portion of the population thinks this is a media conspiracy meant to tank the stock market and take Trump down. I'm not sure how you effectively try to mitigate this when a massive number of people think it isn't real.

    I agree. Most of these people will wake up now I think, but these are the very people that will panic once their fantasy bubble is broken...

    At this point it will take a death in the family at minimum. Of what I'm reading of the transcripts from Hannity's show tonight, he and Tom Cotton seem to be insinuating that Hunter Biden may have teamed up with the Chinese government to manufacture this crisis. FOX News is going to get people killed. The sad irony is, it will mostly be the demographic most likely to be their viewers.

    Billion dollar companies like the NBA and Disney are not doing this because the media scared them into it. They stand to lose untold amounts of money. They don't have a choice.

    I've taken a break from Rush Limbaugh so I have no insights on what idiocy he's spouting now. Last week he was still saying this was all a hoax though.

    Edit: NASCAR is racing without fans. That might wake up a few of these morons...

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