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The Politics Thread

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Comments

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,689
    Grond0 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    As I said earlier, it was all bullshit. He does this ALL the time. He says something demonstrably untrue, and let's his staff clean it up afterwards, then pretends it never happened. He isn't taking it, the guy simply ENJOYS lying his ass off because he believes it puts him in a position of power to do so and get away with it.

    I wouldn't go as far as saying he's lying, again. I think waiting and letting this unfold would be much sweeter if he is proven to be.

    I'd be the last person to assume he's telling the truth, but I don't see the need to assume he's lying. As I've said before chloroquine and its derivatives have been used as a preventative measure against malaria by multiple millions of people over many decades, so as drugs go we have ample evidence it's a relatively safe one. Unless Trump has some undisclosed health conditions, I don't see why a doctor would not agree to prescribe it.

    It wouldn't seem sensible to me to risk even rare side effects, but I could certainly imagine a germophobe like Trump wanting to do something to 'protect' against Covid-19 - whether or not that protection is illusory.

    He definitely has some undisclosed health conditions. Reminder when his shady doctor wrote that letter saying that he was healthier than anyone ever and another military doctor said he could live to 300 or something. They released his health summary and it was full of the types of lies you'd expect from China or North Korea.

    Reality is Trump is morbidly obese. That isn't disclosed but you can clearly see it with your own eyes. Additionally, it is possible he's hooked on amphetamines as there is the photo evidence of all those foreign sudafed pills in his desk. There's speculation and people close to him that claim that he wears adult diapers and there is some photographic evidence there too.

    One thing is certain, much like the things he says about China, Trump would not willingly tell the truth about inconvenient or embarrassing facts.

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 843
    Worth noting that in the statement where Trump claimed to be taking the malaria drug he made a bunch of misleading statements about "front-line" medical workers taking this as a preventative measure. It's really not so much about his own personal medication as it is about failing to tell the truth about the worst pandemic since 1918.

    smeagolheartThacoBell
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,583
    edited May 19
    DinoDin wrote: »
    Worth noting that in the statement where Trump claimed to be taking the malaria drug he made a bunch of misleading statements about "front-line" medical workers taking this as a preventative measure. It's really not so much about his own personal medication as it is about failing to tell the truth about the worst pandemic since 1918.

    Everytime he does this, he sows more doubt among the populace about the true nature of what's going on and what's at stake. It is THE main reason so many people aren't taking it seriously, and it's a large part of why we are where we are. It's why wearing a mask in public can now cause a confrontation with one of his supporters. Since the moment it was clear this was going to become a major problem, he's been lying, misleading, and sowing doubt instead of speaking with one voice with accurate information. That, along with the testing disaster initially, is why 100,000 people are going to be dead by Friday.

    Meanwhile, another day, another ridiculously transparent attempt to hide COVID-19 data from the public in Florida:

    https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200518/as-florida-reopens-covid-19-data-chief-gets-sidelined-and-researchers-cry-foul

    smeagolheartThacoBellDinoDinsemiticgod
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,689
    edited May 19
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    DinoDin wrote: »
    Worth noting that in the statement where Trump claimed to be taking the malaria drug he made a bunch of misleading statements about "front-line" medical workers taking this as a preventative measure. It's really not so much about his own personal medication as it is about failing to tell the truth about the worst pandemic since 1918.

    Everytime he does this, he sows more doubt among the populace about the true nature of what's going on and what's at stake. It is THE main reason so many people aren't taking it seriously, and it's a large part of why we are where we are. It's why wearing a mask in public can now cause a confrontation with one of his supporters. Since the moment it was clear this was going to become a major problem, he's been lying, misleading, and sowing doubt instead of speaking with one voice with accurate information. That, along with the testing disaster initially, is why 100,000 people are going to be dead by Friday.

    Meanwhile, another day, another ridiculously transparent attempt to hide COVID-19 data from the public in Florida:

    https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200518/as-florida-reopens-covid-19-data-chief-gets-sidelined-and-researchers-cry-foul

    Isn't this the exact thing certain people claim to be upset with China about?

    "lying, misleading, and sowing doubt". Active manipulation of data? Florida is just as bad as Chyna.

    DinoDin
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,583
    edited May 19
    I'm not sure I buy any of this polling yet, but ones out today show Biden in a dead heat with Trump in Georgia, and Martha McSally is losing by double-digits to Mark Kelly in their Senate match-up in Arizona. If Georgia and Arizona are in play, then Wisconsin might not even matter.

  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 843
    I buy the polling. Always worth checking in at realclearpolitics.com which keeps an average of the current polling situation on its front page at all times. Biden has consistently held a strong polling lead, one he held consistently in matchup polling when the primary was competitive as well.

    He's been consistently up in Florida and only down a point or so in North Carolina. I' m skeptical he could win Georgia, but it's not outrageous in a 2008 style blowout, which is obviously in the cards.

    The key caveat with all this polling is always the same. This is the polling right now. We haven't even had the conventions yet. The primary isn't even technically over or even clinched yet for Biden, he's merely running unopposed. So there's lots of time for these numbers to change. I suspect they will narrow some, because partisanship always tends to grow among voters as we approach the actual election date. But it needs to narrow by a pretty large margin for Trump to have a chance.

    BallpointMan
  • MaleficentOneMaleficentOne Member Posts: 211
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Also this. If someone from Great Britain @Grond0 maybe, can shed some light on this comment made by Sir Patrick Vallance.
    I'm hoping it was snipped out of context. If it is how it sounds then that would be alarming.
    Please excuse the nonsense at the end of the video, only one I could find with the clip.

    There's nothing alarming there. What he was talking about needs to be taken in the context of the criteria for testing. At the start of the outbreak the UK was carrying out testing in the community as well as in hospitals, which helped in assessing the spread of the disease. However, the UK was slow to increase the capacity for testing and, as case numbers grew, they therefore tightened up the criteria for testing and only applied that to hospital cases.

    That, along with the easy availability of data, is why the UK's headline figures for Covid-19 cases only referred to hospital cases until relatively recently. However, the UK has always also published the figures for the total deaths attributed to Covid-19 on death certificates, i.e. including those where doctors think that Covid-19 was probably present for deaths in the community (including care homes) even though no test was carried out. What Vallance was explaining was why there is a difference between the two sets of figures. The clip is over a month old of course and the difference that applied at that time no longer exists (tests are also now almost universally available - anyone over 5 with symptoms can ask for one).

    The basis on which countries publish data varies, but publishing only data from hospitals has been a common practice. In the US this certainly used to be the case. I understand the CDC did say some time ago that community deaths should be included in figures, but I'm not sure whether that change has been generally made in state figures. I know it was implemented in New York, with an additional 3,778 deaths added on April 14, but I've seen no other adjustments (but I don't generally follow state by state data, so may have just missed these).

    Thanks for clarifying.

    Grond0
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    Just in case you think the US is the only country doing badly during this epidemic, here's an interesting article from a Russian...

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/05/19/moscow-coronavirus-vladimir-putin-265227

    MaleficentOneGrond0smeagolheart
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,583
    edited May 20
    First of all, this tweet is a lie. They didn't send absentee ballots, they sent APPLICATIONS for absentee ballots. I got one here in ND as well. Funny how he doesn't care about that. But the main takeaway is that he appears to be blackmailing the state. You can either vote safely, or receive pandemic funding. Nice state you got there, be shame if something happened to it. This is the behavior of a thuggish autocrat.

    Example #2,367 of how the modern Republican Party has abandoned even the basic concepts of democracy. They flat-out do not believe in it. Their official position is basically "red-states should be able to vote by mail, blue-states shouldn't. Old people in rural areas should be able to vote by mail, people in cities shouldn't". They aren't even trying to hide it. When someone tells you who they are, believe them:


    Thing is, there isn't even any hard evidence vote by mail benefits Democrats. It's simply a matter of ease and fairness. But they have convinced themselves it does. Oregon has been all vote by mail for YEARS and it works pretty much flawlessly. But, again, Trump in on the record saying some people (seniors) should be able to, but not others. He might want to rethink that given the latest poll numbers of those over 65. Turns out asking people to sacrifice themselves for his reelection prospects doesn't play all that well.

    And the "free speech" crowd will scream and holler, but maybe Twitter should consider doing something about the President attempting to sabotage a national election on their platform. But I'm told the site is very, very unfair to conservatives. What a crock of shit.

    Edit: it's even worse than I thought, because in the tweet after this, he is TAGGING 3 top officials in his Administration, essentially giving marching orders. This is EXACTLY what he was impeached for, and why:


    And now he's doing it to Nevada as well. Planting the idea that vote by mail is "fraud" (but only when done by certain types of people) and literally threatening to hold up life-saving funds if they don't stop sending out absentee ballot applications:


    NOW I am more convinced about the polling (though it's not so much I don't believe the numbers as have PTSD about 2016). Whatever Brad Parscale is showing him internally in clearly not making him very happy. But that's the point. If it's evident he is going to lose, he will burn the place to the ground. Of course, he is already doing that as we speak, but it can get worse, and will.

    Michigan Secretary of State responds directly:

    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
    ThacoBellGrond0
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    edited May 20
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Just in case you think the US is the only country doing badly during this epidemic, here's an interesting article from a Russian...

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/05/19/moscow-coronavirus-vladimir-putin-265227
    Yup, I randomly decided to check on covid situation few days ago and was a bit surprised to find out we're now the second most infected after US. Explains why a week ago our governor decreed to wear mask and gloves not just in stores and transport, but anywhere beyond the apartment door. I did play along, just to make a point I'm not the one who'll get blamed, even though I was pretty much the only one in a mask in the street... I'm seriously considering to join the rest in not giving a damn, though - I'd rather take civil violation charge (not like anyone's going to issue it anyway) over getting hit by a car I couldn't see because of all the breath condensed on my glasses.

    The situation could be aptly summed up as "tell an idiot to pray, and he'll smack his forehead against the icon" :facepalm: But it's always been the root of problem here - if there's a issue, most of the people would expect that a tsar, or Stalin, or their boss, or janitor, someone else will come and sort it out for them, instead of lifting a finger themselves.

    Balrog99MaleficentOnesmeagolheart
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    @jjstraka34

    I love how Michigan is being portrayed as the new Soviet Union by some people on the right. Literally nothing is any different here now than it was 20 years ago. The state itself has been run by Republicans for as long as I remember and we've traded off between Democrat and Republican governors every 10 years religiously. There's a reason we're a swing state. That reason is we're about 50/50 blue/red and have been for a long time now. No politburo here. If Whitmer overplays her hand she'll lose her job in a few years, not become some sort of reincarnation of Mao...

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,414
    It's a distraction at the moment. Let the mainstream media talk about this 'threat' instead of his "badge of honour" of having more coronavirus cases and deaths as he prematurely forces states to reopen.

    It's also to cast doubt on the actual results come November if he loses to Biden. He did the same thing around this time the last election. By sowing doubt along with his right wing pundits, the GOP lead senate may "investigate" any potential fraud and put the results on hold until everything is thoroughly checked.

    Balrog99
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    deltago wrote: »
    It's a distraction at the moment. Let the mainstream media talk about this 'threat' instead of his "badge of honour" of having more coronavirus cases and deaths as he prematurely forces states to reopen.

    It's also to cast doubt on the actual results come November if he loses to Biden. He did the same thing around this time the last election. By sowing doubt along with his right wing pundits, the GOP lead senate may "investigate" any potential fraud and put the results on hold until everything is thoroughly checked.

    Pissing off moderates in a swing-state isn't a path to victory IMHO...

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,414
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    It's a distraction at the moment. Let the mainstream media talk about this 'threat' instead of his "badge of honour" of having more coronavirus cases and deaths as he prematurely forces states to reopen.

    It's also to cast doubt on the actual results come November if he loses to Biden. He did the same thing around this time the last election. By sowing doubt along with his right wing pundits, the GOP lead senate may "investigate" any potential fraud and put the results on hold until everything is thoroughly checked.

    Pissing off moderates in a swing-state isn't a path to victory IMHO...

    Is it?

    All Fox News and Co have to do is tell the story of how an household of illegal immigrants was mailed this application and those pissed off moderates can be pissed off at both sides.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    deltago wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    It's a distraction at the moment. Let the mainstream media talk about this 'threat' instead of his "badge of honour" of having more coronavirus cases and deaths as he prematurely forces states to reopen.

    It's also to cast doubt on the actual results come November if he loses to Biden. He did the same thing around this time the last election. By sowing doubt along with his right wing pundits, the GOP lead senate may "investigate" any potential fraud and put the results on hold until everything is thoroughly checked.

    Pissing off moderates in a swing-state isn't a path to victory IMHO...

    Is it?

    All Fox News and Co have to do is tell the story of how an household of illegal immigrants was mailed this application and those pissed off moderates can be pissed off at both sides.

    An application for a ballot is not a ballot. If people are that gullible they deserve what they get. I can always move to Costa Rica after I retire...

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,583
    edited May 21
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    It's a distraction at the moment. Let the mainstream media talk about this 'threat' instead of his "badge of honour" of having more coronavirus cases and deaths as he prematurely forces states to reopen.

    It's also to cast doubt on the actual results come November if he loses to Biden. He did the same thing around this time the last election. By sowing doubt along with his right wing pundits, the GOP lead senate may "investigate" any potential fraud and put the results on hold until everything is thoroughly checked.

    Pissing off moderates in a swing-state isn't a path to victory IMHO...

    Is it?

    All Fox News and Co have to do is tell the story of how an household of illegal immigrants was mailed this application and those pissed off moderates can be pissed off at both sides.

    An application for a ballot is not a ballot. If people are that gullible they deserve what they get. I can always move to Costa Rica after I retire...

    It's amazing that anyone would actually pretend to be worried or pissed about mail-in ballots. North Dakota is as red as any state in the country, and I was sent an application for one unsolicited two weeks ago for all elections remaining this year. Literally no one anywhere has a problem with this. Nor do they have a problem with the entire state of Utah doing likewise. At this point, it's impossible to deny what the true message of all this is. Which is that he's catering to people who have a problem with the fact that Democrats or liberals are even allowed to vote AT ALL.

    I'm sent a single ballot. I mark it and send it back. Where does the "massive fraud" part enter into the equation?? Moreover, it's a pre-paid envelope that goes directly to the County Auditor. Which you also only get one of. Does someone really think individual people are going to head down to Kinko's and make 20 copies of each, which, even assuming they did a.) likely wouldn't get counted and b.) wouldn't make any difference anyway?? Not to mention that in the HIGH likelihood that amateur scheme gets caught, you're probably gonna spend 6 months to a year in prison.

    Balrog99semiticgodThacoBell
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    It's a distraction at the moment. Let the mainstream media talk about this 'threat' instead of his "badge of honour" of having more coronavirus cases and deaths as he prematurely forces states to reopen.

    It's also to cast doubt on the actual results come November if he loses to Biden. He did the same thing around this time the last election. By sowing doubt along with his right wing pundits, the GOP lead senate may "investigate" any potential fraud and put the results on hold until everything is thoroughly checked.

    Pissing off moderates in a swing-state isn't a path to victory IMHO...

    Is it?

    All Fox News and Co have to do is tell the story of how an household of illegal immigrants was mailed this application and those pissed off moderates can be pissed off at both sides.

    An application for a ballot is not a ballot. If people are that gullible they deserve what they get. I can always move to Costa Rica after I retire...

    It's amazing that anyone would actually pretend to be worried or pissed about mail-in ballots. North Dakota is as red as any state in the country, and I was sent an application for one unsolicited two weeks ago for all elections remaining this year. Literally no one anywhere has a problem with this. Nor do they have a problem with the entire state of Utah doing likewise. At this point, it's impossible to deny what the true message of all this is. Which is that he's catering to people who have a problem with the fact that Democrats or liberals are even allowed to vote AT ALL.

    I'm sent a single ballot. I mark it and send it back. Where does the "massive fraud" part enter into the equation?? Moreover, it's a pre-paid envelope that goes directly to the County Auditor. Which you also only get one of. Does someone really think individual people are going to head down to Kinko's and make 20 copies of each, which, even assuming they did a.) likely wouldn't get counted and b.) wouldn't make any difference anyway?? Not to mention that in the HIGH likelihood that amateur scheme gets caught, you're probably gonna to 6 months to a year in prison.

    Anybody looking for an excuse to vote the way they're already going to vote is a lost cause. Trying to cater to people like that is a waste of your campaign dollars.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    I'll be honest with y'all, Trump is anathema to me but I will NOT say that there's no way I'd vote for him at this point. There is just way too much time before November. I can say that I don't like Biden but I also won't rule out voting for him. My job is chaos right now. My life is chaos right now. My 12 year old daughter's life is chaos right now. My vote is chaos right now. Period...

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,148
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    It's a distraction at the moment. Let the mainstream media talk about this 'threat' instead of his "badge of honour" of having more coronavirus cases and deaths as he prematurely forces states to reopen.

    It's also to cast doubt on the actual results come November if he loses to Biden. He did the same thing around this time the last election. By sowing doubt along with his right wing pundits, the GOP lead senate may "investigate" any potential fraud and put the results on hold until everything is thoroughly checked.

    Pissing off moderates in a swing-state isn't a path to victory IMHO...

    Is it?

    All Fox News and Co have to do is tell the story of how an household of illegal immigrants was mailed this application and those pissed off moderates can be pissed off at both sides.

    An application for a ballot is not a ballot. If people are that gullible they deserve what they get. I can always move to Costa Rica after I retire...

    It's amazing that anyone would actually pretend to be worried or pissed about mail-in ballots. North Dakota is as red as any state in the country, and I was sent an application for one unsolicited two weeks ago for all elections remaining this year. Literally no one anywhere has a problem with this. Nor do they have a problem with the entire state of Utah doing likewise. At this point, it's impossible to deny what the true message of all this is. Which is that he's catering to people who have a problem with the fact that Democrats or liberals are even allowed to vote AT ALL.

    I'm sent a single ballot. I mark it and send it back. Where does the "massive fraud" part enter into the equation?? Moreover, it's a pre-paid envelope that goes directly to the County Auditor. Which you also only get one of. Does someone really think individual people are going to head down to Kinko's and make 20 copies of each, which, even assuming they did a.) likely wouldn't get counted and b.) wouldn't make any difference anyway?? Not to mention that in the HIGH likelihood that amateur scheme gets caught, you're probably gonna spend 6 months to a year in prison.

    I do agree with you that voter fraud is negligible. If we went with voting by internet I'd have a problem though. I don't have enough confidence in our security measures to believe in that yet.

    BallpointMan
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 928
    Grond0 wrote: »
    As has been said many times, the most obvious way out of the current crisis is to get a safe, reliable and effective vaccine. Even if that does become available though, which is of course very far from certain, legal fights against its use are likely to continue well into the future and the level of take-up is likely to be depressed even in the long term by the type of messages Trump is consistently putting out.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts upholds that mandatory vaccination is legal.

    Hell, we would NEVER have eradicated smallpox without it.

    So anti-vaxxers can go suck it.
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    First of all, this tweet is a lie. They didn't send absentee ballots, they sent APPLICATIONS for absentee ballots. I got one here in ND as well. Funny how he doesn't care about that. But the main takeaway is that he appears to be blackmailing the state. You can either vote safely, or receive pandemic funding. Nice state you got there, be shame if something happened to it. This is the behavior of a thuggish autocrat.

    Example #2,367 of how the modern Republican Party has abandoned even the basic concepts of democracy. They flat-out do not believe in it. Their official position is basically "red-states should be able to vote by mail, blue-states shouldn't. Old people in rural areas should be able to vote by mail, people in cities shouldn't". They aren't even trying to hide it. When someone tells you who they are, believe them:


    Thing is, there isn't even any hard evidence vote by mail benefits Democrats. It's simply a matter of ease and fairness. But they have convinced themselves it does. Oregon has been all vote by mail for YEARS and it works pretty much flawlessly. But, again, Trump in on the record saying some people (seniors) should be able to, but not others. He might want to rethink that given the latest poll numbers of those over 65. Turns out asking people to sacrifice themselves for his reelection prospects doesn't play all that well.

    And the "free speech" crowd will scream and holler, but maybe Twitter should consider doing something about the President attempting to sabotage a national election on their platform. But I'm told the site is very, very unfair to conservatives. What a crock of shit.

    Edit: it's even worse than I thought, because in the tweet after this, he is TAGGING 3 top officials in his Administration, essentially giving marching orders. This is EXACTLY what he was impeached for, and why:


    And now he's doing it to Nevada as well. Planting the idea that vote by mail is "fraud" (but only when done by certain types of people) and literally threatening to hold up life-saving funds if they don't stop sending out absentee ballot applications:


    NOW I am more convinced about the polling (though it's not so much I don't believe the numbers as have PTSD about 2016). Whatever Brad Parscale is showing him internally in clearly not making him very happy. But that's the point. If it's evident he is going to lose, he will burn the place to the ground. Of course, he is already doing that as we speak, but it can get worse, and will.

    Michigan Secretary of State responds directly:


    Even worse tweeting this after Michigan has a couple of dam failures from heavy rainfall flooding a town and causing mandatory evacuation of thousands.

    smeagolheartThacoBell
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,583
    edited May 21
    Trump this afternoon "voting is an honor". Nope, dead wrong. Voting is a right. It's not something that has to be earned, and sure as shit isn't meant to be difficult so you can "prove" how much you deserve to do it. Which is what he now seems to be insinuating. He's basically saying "put in the work if you want to vote". Fuck you motherfucker. This is not a promotion at work or training for a good 10k time. I have a right to it and standing in line for 3 hours doesn't make me more "worthy" of having it. America, where if it doesn't involve a 60 hour work week, you haven't put in enough effort. Meanwhile, we'll mention again that Trump votes by mail. Every other President RELISHED the opportunity to fly home on election morning to vote for the photo-op. This sloth is too lazy for even that.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,689
    edited May 21
    New Mexico County Commissioner Expresses Desire To See Dead Members Of Opposite Politicial Party

    W/ video

    https://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2020/05/new-mexico-county-commissioner

    You'll never guess the party without clicking the link. Wait of course you know already.

    ThacoBell
  • MaleficentOneMaleficentOne Member Posts: 211
    New Mexico County Commissioner Expresses Desire To See Dead Members Of Opposite Politicial Party

    W/ video

    https://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2020/05/new-mexico-county-commissioner

    You'll never guess the party without clicking the link. Wait of course you know already.

    Oh shit, not cool.

    smeagolheartlroumen
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 843
    One note on Michigan, is that it's yet another state where Republicans have gerrymandered the statehouse districts so that they can win majority control in the legislature, despite losing the statewide vote, as they did in 2018.

    https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/politics/gerrymandering-election-state-houses-pennsylvania-michigan-north-carolina-republicans-analysis-20181113.html

    For the state House of Reps they wont 47.4% of the vote but control 52.7% of the seats.
    48.0% of the state Senate votes, but 57.9% of the seats.

    Remember, this election year will also grant the winners in many states redistricting powers.

    smeagolheart
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,303
    Quickblade wrote: »
    Grond0 wrote: »
    As has been said many times, the most obvious way out of the current crisis is to get a safe, reliable and effective vaccine. Even if that does become available though, which is of course very far from certain, legal fights against its use are likely to continue well into the future and the level of take-up is likely to be depressed even in the long term by the type of messages Trump is consistently putting out.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts upholds that mandatory vaccination is legal.

    Hell, we would NEVER have eradicated smallpox without it.

    So anti-vaxxers can go suck it.

    That decision only covered adults, not children. In addition, in common with all such decisions, it's based on what is reasonable in the circumstances (which is why most states in the US allow religious exemptions for vaccines). I think it's a foregone conclusion there will be legal challenges against any requirement to be vaccinated against this disease and it's too early to predict how those will turn out because we don't yet know the benefits and costs of a vaccine. Those would be affected for instance, if there were some level of herd immunity in the future - and even the presence of antibodies in an individual could potentially be ruled as a reason not to require that individual to be vaccinated.

    There are also reasonable arguments that a vaccine can't be deemed fully safe on the basis of trials done only over a few months. The situation will be further complicated if a vaccine does not give full, permanent protection (which seems the probable outcome at the moment). The argument over what is reasonable would then involve the perceived effectiveness of the vaccine, as well as the perceived risk of complications and the perceived risk an unvaccinated individual poses to wider society.

    Personally, I strongly support the idea of vaccines, but I would be very surprised if any mandatory proposed vaccination does not get caught up in litigation - probably extending over years.

    MaleficentOneBalrog99semiticgod
  • MaleficentOneMaleficentOne Member Posts: 211
    There is a second video of Ahmaud Arbery being arrested for shoplifting. He later pleaded guilty to the charge and received 5 yrs probation.

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/19/new-ahmaud-arbery-video-shows-2017-shoplifting-arrest/

    I am in no way condoning the actions of Greg and Travis McMichael. A lot of things will come out at trial, hopefully two of those things will be truth and justice.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,689
    DinoDin wrote: »
    One note on Michigan, is that it's yet another state where Republicans have gerrymandered the statehouse districts so that they can win majority control in the legislature, despite losing the statewide vote, as they did in 2018.

    https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/politics/gerrymandering-election-state-houses-pennsylvania-michigan-north-carolina-republicans-analysis-20181113.html

    For the state House of Reps they wont 47.4% of the vote but control 52.7% of the seats.
    48.0% of the state Senate votes, but 57.9% of the seats.

    Remember, this election year will also grant the winners in many states redistricting powers.

    And the crooked SCOTUS has legitimized gerrymandering saying it's nothing we can do bra, now or ever! So 2020 will be huge, nothing to stop Republicans from totally screwing over voters. Trump can't be allowed to put any more nutty activist conservative judges who will endore more insane opinions like the gerrymandering one.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,414
    There is a second video of Ahmaud Arbery being arrested for shoplifting. He later pleaded guilty to the charge and received 5 yrs probation.

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/19/new-ahmaud-arbery-video-shows-2017-shoplifting-arrest/

    I am in no way condoning the actions of Greg and Travis McMichael. A lot of things will come out at trial, hopefully two of those things will be truth and justice.

    So what? He shoplifted. It's another attempt of making a villain out of the victim.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,111
    edited May 21
    lroumen wrote: »
    Actually, in quite some countries the hippocratic oath is not mandatory anymore when you study medicine or continue specialisation afterwards. More a guideline.
    This is very unfortunate and alarming.
    At first you would think so, but actually, if you know/read the real hippocratic oath, then you might reformulate that opinion based on your stance with respect to numerous medical dilemmas.
    Some of the toughest ones: euthanasia, abortion, genetic illnesses, hereditary illnesses that give extremely limited life time, wishes for or against cpr, and who to save: the baby or the mother.

    Life and death decisions sometimes need to be made on the spot and patient wishes are not always clear. This is why a doctor needs to have the right moral compass but not be completely limited by high level rules.

    Also, fun fact, in the old days the apprentice doctor needs to share his wealth with the teacher :).

    Sorry for the off-topic tangent.

    MaleficentOneThacoBellsemiticgod
  • MaleficentOneMaleficentOne Member Posts: 211
    edited May 21
    deltago wrote: »
    There is a second video of Ahmaud Arbery being arrested for shoplifting. He later pleaded guilty to the charge and received 5 yrs probation.

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/19/new-ahmaud-arbery-video-shows-2017-shoplifting-arrest/

    I am in no way condoning the actions of Greg and Travis McMichael. A lot of things will come out at trial, hopefully two of those things will be truth and justice.

    So what? He shoplifted. It's another attempt of making a villain out of the victim.



    I guess it's legal or ok to go into a place with three of your boys and lift a 65 inch tv? It wasn't for lifting slim jim's or jujubes.


    The same way the Media is making him out to be an angel Greg and Travis McMichael's attorney will try to make him look like a devil. This happens all the time in murder trials. The video of him being shot is the end, we need to know the middle and beginning to piece the truth together.
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/us/ahmaud-arbery-mcmichael-arrests-friday/index.html
    This is from May 9th.

    "It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived. Under Georgia law, this is perfectly legal," Barnhill wrote in an April 2 letter.

    If their attorney can prove that Arbery attacked first with this law and they were just trying to hold him, which again is legal in Georgia, they will walk.

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