Trump is tweeting about the need to stay peaceful and respect law and order. While that's a good thing just at the moment, it's a real pity that he's incapable of appreciating the irony ...
An arsonist setting a fire and then telling the flames to settle down......
Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz directly helped cause this, and should be drummed out of public life. Trump should be impeached or removed from office by way of the 25th Amendment within 48 hours before this goes any farther, and let Pence wrap up the last two weeks. It's no longer symbolic, it's absolutely necessary.
I can't overstate enough just how much this is like the Bundy Boys in Oregon. Thousands of people have taken over the US Capitol and NOTHING is being done about it. No one is being arrested, no riot squads are on the scene, no tear gas has been deployed. The advantages of being angry, white, male and conservative in this country have NEVER been more evident than at this moment. They aren't afraid to take pictures and pose for the camera because they have been trained to believe their actions will have absolutely no consequences because of their social status. So far, they're entirely correct.
There will be a transfer of power on January 20th, but no one can ever say it was peaceful. And they are being treated like school children on a field trip.
If it was a thousand Muslims in burkas there wouldn't be enough body bags for all the people law enforcement would have shot dead by now. The entire Legislative branch is trapped in the Capitol.
The most he’ll get is probation and community service for breaking and entering and public mischief. Maybe a fine.
He’s not armed. He didn’t steal anything and really can’t prove of he assaulted anyone. What is he going away to prison for?
He will however be on at least one Fox News show by the end of the month, if not the end of the week.
Someone’s head in the police department is going to roll for this and that’s as far as it it’ll go. Doesn’t matter that Trump was broadcasting he wanted Marshall Law for the last two weeks and this might be the thing that gives it to him (but not in the way he expects).
The most he’ll get is probation and community service for breaking and entering and public mischief. Maybe a fine.
He’s not armed. He didn’t steal anything and really can’t prove of he assaulted anyone. What is he going away to prison for?
He will however be on at least one Fox News show by the end of the month, if not the end of the week.
Someone’s head in the police department is going to roll for this and that’s as far as it it’ll go. Doesn’t matter that Trump was broadcasting he wanted Marshall Law for the last two weeks and this might be the thing that gives it to him (but not in the way he expects).
He broke into the office of the person third in line to the Presidency. "Public mischief" is putting it pretty mildly:
The most he’ll get is probation and community service for breaking and entering and public mischief. Maybe a fine.
He’s not armed. He didn’t steal anything and really can’t prove of he assaulted anyone. What is he going away to prison for?
He will however be on at least one Fox News show by the end of the month, if not the end of the week.
Someone’s head in the police department is going to roll for this and that’s as far as it it’ll go. Doesn’t matter that Trump was broadcasting he wanted Marshall Law for the last two weeks and this might be the thing that gives it to him (but not in the way he expects).
He broke into the office of the person third in line to the Presidency. "Public mischief" is putting it pretty mildly:
My point is he is going to be rewarded for his actions more than he is going to be punished and it’s delusional to think that the right wing media is not going to treat this guy like a hero and a true patriot if he faces any type of jail time.
Just look how the alt-right are treating Rittenhouse.
The guy in the picture is not going to jail and I am willing to put money on it. Canadian money, so it is almost practically useless but still.
The most he’ll get is probation and community service for breaking and entering and public mischief. Maybe a fine.
He’s not armed. He didn’t steal anything and really can’t prove of he assaulted anyone. What is he going away to prison for?
He will however be on at least one Fox News show by the end of the month, if not the end of the week.
Someone’s head in the police department is going to roll for this and that’s as far as it it’ll go. Doesn’t matter that Trump was broadcasting he wanted Marshall Law for the last two weeks and this might be the thing that gives it to him (but not in the way he expects).
He broke into the office of the person third in line to the Presidency. "Public mischief" is putting it pretty mildly:
My point is he is going to be rewarded for his actions more than he is going to be punished and it’s delusional to think that the right wing media is not going to treat this guy like a hero and a true patriot if he faces any type of jail time.
Just look how the alt-right are treating Rittenhouse.
The guy in the picture is not going to jail and I am willing to put money on it. Canadian money, so it is almost practically useless but still.
My prediction is that this guy's picture will become a meme. You heard it here first!
Btw, this is the 21st century. There's got to be a better way to handle elections in this day and age. If nothing else, states need to take this more seriously and spend more money in the urban areas to avoid this kind of fiasco in the future.
It sounds like Pence is the one who called in the troops. Trump's probably too busy changing the locks in the White House, barricading the windows and digging a bunker in the basement...
Just gonna add, that once again, no Electoral College, and no absurd drama about the election results.
As well, no perverse representation in the Senate and there would *also* be no drama about the people getting the elected government supported by the majority of American voters.
None of these systems are working in the way their defenders claim. And they are all failing in exactly the way their critics say.
Then he backed off a bit and said it "borders on sedition." No, it flat out is sedition. Which has serious penalties, including a permanent ban on holding any public office. That absolutely should be applied to certain members of Congress that helped enable this.
First off (to address a few points) Pence has NO authority to order the military to do anything unless Trump is incapacitated or they've invoked the 25th, so that is worth looking into.
Secondly, this is not a normal protest, it's insurrection and sedition. Their goal was to stop the certification of electors by Congress, and they have at least temporarily succeeded in that goal.
Third, the guy from Pelosi's office defense against theft just went out the window. Why?? Because he literally POSED FOR A PICTURE with a piece of mail he stole from her desk. I want everyone here to think long and hard about why these people are acting this brazen. The answer, in this case, is as simple as black and white:
I'd argue even the 25th Amendment provision is a bad idea. It has to be impeachment. The 25th really is about the prez being incapacitated in some state, a physical emergency. This is a political emergency. Supporters of the outgoing head of the executive branch staged an attack and succeeded in delaying the actions of the legislative branch. It's exactly why the Constitution gives the legislature impeachment powers.
All these Republicans need to, at the least, be put on the record with a vote again.
I'd argue even the 25th Amendment provision is a bad idea. It has to be impeachment. The 25th really is about the prez being incapacitated in some state, a physical emergency. This is a political emergency. Supporters of the outgoing head of the executive branch staged an attack and succeeded in delaying the actions of the legislative branch. It's exactly why the Constitution gives the legislature impeachment powers.
All these Republicans need to, at the least, be put on the record with a vote again.
Waste of time. It'll take longer than the two weeks Trump has left.
Only has to take two weeks if lame duck GOP leadership in the Senate makes it take that long. And I say, put pressure on them. Is there an actual opportunity cost you can point to here? The short remaining period of divided government isn't going to accomplish anything imo.
I'd argue even the 25th Amendment provision is a bad idea. It has to be impeachment. The 25th really is about the prez being incapacitated in some state, a physical emergency. This is a political emergency. Supporters of the outgoing head of the executive branch staged an attack and succeeded in delaying the actions of the legislative branch. It's exactly why the Constitution gives the legislature impeachment powers.
All these Republicans need to, at the least, be put on the record with a vote again.
And they did it at the explicit encouragement of the President. Every statement he has made today has excused or supported the action before saying a tacked on, disingenuous "please go home". There is a picture of Josh Hawley raising his fists in support to these people mere hours before the storming of the Capitol.
Apparently, Romney is absolutely furious at his Republican colleagues. Only he and Justin Amash have a right to be saying anything right now. The rest of them can seriously shut the fuck up. We warned about this happening every day for four years. Let's start listening to the people who were actually correct about where this would end up.
The storming of the Capitol is an absolutely stunning demonstration of Trump's base's absolute contempt for the entire concept of democracy itself, the ability of social media rumors to brainwash people into breaking the law, and the fragility of democracy in the United States.
And it's the most dramatic proof of the fact that some folks have known since 2016. Trumpism has never been about "law and order."
They stormed the Capitol in protest of a democratic election. There is no sugarcoating it.
I know why people say it, but we have to refrain from using the phrase "Trumpism" in the context we do, because it does nothing but absolve the real culprits here. The problem in this country, for the last 40 years, has been the Republican Party and it's base voters. And this is Endgame.
There is no daylight between Trumpism and the conservative movement at this moment in time. Having a come to Jesus moment when the Capitol is literally being overtaken by a mob does not count. They rode this thing all the way til about 2pm Eastern Standard time this afternoon.
The storming of the Capitol is an absolutely stunning demonstration of Trump's base's absolute contempt for the entire concept of democracy itself, the ability of social media rumors to brainwash people into breaking the law, and the fragility of democracy in the United States.
And it's the most dramatic proof of the fact that some folks have known since 2016. Trumpism has never been about "law and order."
They stormed the Capitol in protest of a democratic election. There is no sugarcoating it.
This is what fascism looks like.
These people are fascists.
Yep. One problem is that fascism became incorrectly synonymous with one particularly evil regime. But I've come around on the word. In a very literal sense it does fit with Trumpers, even if they are not as extreme as the worst fascists.
CNN is reporting what was mentioned earlier, that Pence is giving all the orders. Again, there is no constitutional authority vested in Pence to do anything. Which begs the question as to whether the 25th is being invoked. The same reporting is saying that Trump is "out of his mind" and that the source says fears inside the White House are that it will only get worse as the walls close in. Something has to be done. We can no longer just assume things are going to work out on their own.
The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is keeping them ignorant.
Maximilian Robespierre
I know it belongs in “Quotes” thread but it is relevant. How much education did anyone see in today’s events? Mostly it was the ignorant making a stand that they do not even understand.
The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is keeping them ignorant.
Maximilian Robespierre
I know it belongs in “Quotes” thread but it is relevant. How much education did anyone see in today’s events? Mostly it was the ignorant making a stand that they do not even understand.
Their ignorance is mostly a choice. They are not children. No one has been forcing them to mainline FOX News and AM radio for decades. The only thing they "understand" is that people like them are the only ones who should decide who is in charge. That they own this country, and that elected officials put in power by the votes of liberals or (especially) minorities are illegitimate. The "election fraud" bullshit is just a nice mask they can throw on to avoid saying this out loud.
I spent so many years trying to assume best intentions.
I rejected the worst explanations for the Republican party's behavior. Four years ago, I defended Trump from criticisms I thought were too extreme. I even hoped, the stupid, naive little idiot that I was, that maybe Trump's "outsider status" would translate into some positive reforms.
I disagreed when folks accused each other of being fascists. I remember, as a moderator, I would call for unity and a spirit of bipartisanship. There were times I gave credit to Republican figures who showed some ounce of integrity.
And I was so stupid and so trusting that because there was a brief period of silence after November 3rd, we would see a quiet transition and Trump's supporters would finally accept the reality facing them.
Mitt Romney said "This is what you’ve gotten, guys" to his colleagues as the building was stormed. And the fact of the matter is, Republicans didn't listen to one of the few GOP figures that dared to tell them the truth. The few Republican politicians with any integrity utterly failed to rein in the party's corruption or its contempt for electoral democracy and the rule of law.
The GOP is a fascist party. And not just at the top, but down to the roots. And if they want me to think any different, I wait for them to prove it in the coming years and decades, by word and deed.
I've seen enough. It's time to call fascism fascism. Trump and his allies have lived up to the name. If we didn't see it over and over again for the past 4 years, we saw it today.
I did find it terribly odd that Pence had to give the order to send in the troops instead of Trump. I'd be the last to condemn him for trying to protect the Capitol, but it's remarkable that Pence had to invoke powers he did not legally possess in order to keep people safe.
Their ignorance is mostly a choice. They are not children. No one has been forcing them to mainline FOX News and AM radio for decades.
While I can agree with most of this, FOX and talk radio are not the whole story, or even the primary culprits at this point. Much of the disinformation and lies that created this movement are viral rumors on social media and algorithms that used extremist content to keep people glued to their screens. Traditional right-wing media laid the tinder and fanned the flames, but Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, 4chan, and other communities made this movement as violent and deluded as it is.
Comments
An arsonist setting a fire and then telling the flames to settle down......
Sorry, but I find that picture kinda funny. He should have a cigar though. That would be the cherry on top...
I know, I have a weird sense of humor and also don't take our government seriously. This is mostly a big show to manipulate the masses.
I can't overstate enough just how much this is like the Bundy Boys in Oregon. Thousands of people have taken over the US Capitol and NOTHING is being done about it. No one is being arrested, no riot squads are on the scene, no tear gas has been deployed. The advantages of being angry, white, male and conservative in this country have NEVER been more evident than at this moment. They aren't afraid to take pictures and pose for the camera because they have been trained to believe their actions will have absolutely no consequences because of their social status. So far, they're entirely correct.
There will be a transfer of power on January 20th, but no one can ever say it was peaceful. And they are being treated like school children on a field trip.
Unreal.
The most he’ll get is probation and community service for breaking and entering and public mischief. Maybe a fine.
He’s not armed. He didn’t steal anything and really can’t prove of he assaulted anyone. What is he going away to prison for?
He will however be on at least one Fox News show by the end of the month, if not the end of the week.
Someone’s head in the police department is going to roll for this and that’s as far as it it’ll go. Doesn’t matter that Trump was broadcasting he wanted Marshall Law for the last two weeks and this might be the thing that gives it to him (but not in the way he expects).
He broke into the office of the person third in line to the Presidency. "Public mischief" is putting it pretty mildly:
My point is he is going to be rewarded for his actions more than he is going to be punished and it’s delusional to think that the right wing media is not going to treat this guy like a hero and a true patriot if he faces any type of jail time.
Just look how the alt-right are treating Rittenhouse.
The guy in the picture is not going to jail and I am willing to put money on it. Canadian money, so it is almost practically useless but still.
More context about how others are treated at the Capitol during protests (as opposed to an armed takeover):
My prediction is that this guy's picture will become a meme. You heard it here first!
It sounds like Pence is the one who called in the troops. Trump's probably too busy changing the locks in the White House, barricading the windows and digging a bunker in the basement...
As well, no perverse representation in the Senate and there would *also* be no drama about the people getting the elected government supported by the majority of American voters.
None of these systems are working in the way their defenders claim. And they are all failing in exactly the way their critics say.
"This is not a protest. This is an insurrection."
Then he backed off a bit and said it "borders on sedition." No, it flat out is sedition. Which has serious penalties, including a permanent ban on holding any public office. That absolutely should be applied to certain members of Congress that helped enable this.
Secondly, this is not a normal protest, it's insurrection and sedition. Their goal was to stop the certification of electors by Congress, and they have at least temporarily succeeded in that goal.
Third, the guy from Pelosi's office defense against theft just went out the window. Why?? Because he literally POSED FOR A PICTURE with a piece of mail he stole from her desk. I want everyone here to think long and hard about why these people are acting this brazen. The answer, in this case, is as simple as black and white:
All these Republicans need to, at the least, be put on the record with a vote again.
Waste of time. It'll take longer than the two weeks Trump has left.
And they did it at the explicit encouragement of the President. Every statement he has made today has excused or supported the action before saying a tacked on, disingenuous "please go home". There is a picture of Josh Hawley raising his fists in support to these people mere hours before the storming of the Capitol.
Apparently, Romney is absolutely furious at his Republican colleagues. Only he and Justin Amash have a right to be saying anything right now. The rest of them can seriously shut the fuck up. We warned about this happening every day for four years. Let's start listening to the people who were actually correct about where this would end up.
And it's the most dramatic proof of the fact that some folks have known since 2016. Trumpism has never been about "law and order."
They stormed the Capitol in protest of a democratic election. There is no sugarcoating it.
This is what fascism looks like.
These people are fascists.
There is no daylight between Trumpism and the conservative movement at this moment in time. Having a come to Jesus moment when the Capitol is literally being overtaken by a mob does not count. They rode this thing all the way til about 2pm Eastern Standard time this afternoon.
Yep. One problem is that fascism became incorrectly synonymous with one particularly evil regime. But I've come around on the word. In a very literal sense it does fit with Trumpers, even if they are not as extreme as the worst fascists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Spanish_coup_d'état_attempt
What happened today in the USA is not that different from what Franco fascists in Spain attempted.
Maximilian Robespierre
I know it belongs in “Quotes” thread but it is relevant. How much education did anyone see in today’s events? Mostly it was the ignorant making a stand that they do not even understand.
Their ignorance is mostly a choice. They are not children. No one has been forcing them to mainline FOX News and AM radio for decades. The only thing they "understand" is that people like them are the only ones who should decide who is in charge. That they own this country, and that elected officials put in power by the votes of liberals or (especially) minorities are illegitimate. The "election fraud" bullshit is just a nice mask they can throw on to avoid saying this out loud.
I rejected the worst explanations for the Republican party's behavior. Four years ago, I defended Trump from criticisms I thought were too extreme. I even hoped, the stupid, naive little idiot that I was, that maybe Trump's "outsider status" would translate into some positive reforms.
I disagreed when folks accused each other of being fascists. I remember, as a moderator, I would call for unity and a spirit of bipartisanship. There were times I gave credit to Republican figures who showed some ounce of integrity.
And I was so stupid and so trusting that because there was a brief period of silence after November 3rd, we would see a quiet transition and Trump's supporters would finally accept the reality facing them.
Mitt Romney said "This is what you’ve gotten, guys" to his colleagues as the building was stormed. And the fact of the matter is, Republicans didn't listen to one of the few GOP figures that dared to tell them the truth. The few Republican politicians with any integrity utterly failed to rein in the party's corruption or its contempt for electoral democracy and the rule of law.
The GOP is a fascist party. And not just at the top, but down to the roots. And if they want me to think any different, I wait for them to prove it in the coming years and decades, by word and deed.
I've seen enough. It's time to call fascism fascism. Trump and his allies have lived up to the name. If we didn't see it over and over again for the past 4 years, we saw it today.