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The lesser known historical facts thread

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  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Evolution discussion split to a new thread:

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/74702/discuss-evolution
    FinneousPJDreadKhan
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    edited February 2019
    moderator can delete - I moved to evolution thread
    DreadKhan
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,305
    edited February 2019
    moderator can delete - I moved to evolution thread
    DreadKhan
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    So an ancient bronze age ship wreck was found off the coast of Turkey recently
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00310328.2019.1579467
    It's dated to around 1500-1600 BCE, so is seriously old. They don't specifically mention where the ship was from, but I'd guess it could be Minoan or Phoenician. Some of the ingots could be from Cilicia or Egypt, but that doesn't mean the ship was from there, just that it traded good from those places.

    I love the pics of the old ingots they used. Sometimes they were even used as currency, because they were so valuable at the time. I can't believe how old the wreck is, that's like 500 years before the events depicted in The Iliad, even. I hope they can find enough of the ship itself to put together a model of it.
    SkatanJoenSo
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    Thought I'd revive this thread since I've been reading the Plutarch again.

    After participating in the assassination of Julius Caesar, Brutus didn't just disappear into history. He hooked up with the remnants of Pompey's army, in Greece and started taking tribute and raiding in Anatolia. It wasn't until the massive battle with Cassius against Octavian and Marcus Antonius where he was defeated, that committed suicide.

    Not sure if I mentioned this one here before, or not, but the Xiongnu might be the Huns that attacked The Roman Empire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiongnu#Huns It's thought by a lot of historians that during a period of strength, the Han empire bumped them out of Mongolia and pushed them Westward. It's like a game of billiards where the Han bump the Xiongnu, the Xiongnu/Huns bump the Goths and the Vandals, who bump Rome. There isn't a full consensus of this for the origin of the Huns, but there's a lot of circumstantial evidence for it, quite a lot of Eastern civilizations referred to them as Hun or something similar like Hunna. It's also known that the Huns were Turkish speaking, which would fit with the Xiongnu. BTW, Turkish speaking peoples originated in what is today, Mongolia. While descended from those Turkish speakers, the people living in Turkey have intermingled with the numerous peoples that lived in Anatolia, Thrace and Hungaria over the years.
    SkatanArvia
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    Over 770 people have raced in the Indianapolis 500 since it was first run in 1911. None have had the surname Smith.
    SkatanOrlonKronsteen
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,977
    I guess it's my turn to contribute... Sorry I don't have any fun facts but...

    Henry Ossawa Tanner is the first African American to gain acclaim as a international master painter.

    His father doesn't want him to take the path of the painter so he apprenticed him under his friend who was a miller but Henry's health proved the work was too strenuous causing him to fall very ill which lead to him staying home the next year where he only drew and painted.

    DrHappyAngryArvia
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    The Byzantine Emperor, Constantine V was known as Copronymus by his rivals, which means dung named.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_V
    JoenSoArvia
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 910
    Ancient Egypt changed a lot over the years, but was still was governed by pharaohs for over three millennia. From the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt around 3100 BC until it became a Roman province in 30 BC. That's around 170 pharaohs all in all, including Alexander the Great (told you things changed around a bit).

    Though Egyptians considered the Roman emperors to basically be pharaohs (what's the difference after all?), the last "true" pharaoh of Egypt was Ptolemy XV. Better known as Caesarion, the son of Cleopatra VII and possibly/probably Julius Caesar.
    ProontDrHappyAngryArvia
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Cleopatra, Caesarion's mother, had her reputation for promiscuity way overblown. There's only evidence of her having 2 lovers, Julius Caesar and Marcus Antonius. Even after his death, she considered Caesar her husband. When she married Marcus Antonius (AKA Marc Antony), she made sure that her son Caesarion would inherit the throne.

    Awhile back, I posted some pictures of coins with her image on them. She wasn't a looker by today's standards, but I think the reason men like Caesar and Marc Antony found her so intriguing was that she was well educated. She was completely abreast of the political situation of pretty much the entire Mediterranean and spoke numerous languages. The Romans weren't in the habit of educating their women, so to them a learned woman was quite a novelty. Throw in the cosmetics, perfumes, clothes and jewelry and she must have been pretty spectacular.

    Note, the Romans were by and large very strict moralists, and they were as disturbed by female sexuality as most cultures, so 2 would be notable, and they were pretty public.

    I've heard several historians who were pretty clear that Cleopatra's appeal was mostly mental, and she was considered not just educated, but exceptionally intelligent, and her charms were said to appeal to bright men especially, rather than the horny masses.

    Note, Ms Cleo was notorious for taking good care of what looks she did have, and a lot of beauty is contrivance anyways!
    mlneveseProont
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    DreadKhan wrote: »
    Cleopatra, Caesarion's mother, had her reputation for promiscuity way overblown. There's only evidence of her having 2 lovers, Julius Caesar and Marcus Antonius. Even after his death, she considered Caesar her husband. When she married Marcus Antonius (AKA Marc Antony), she made sure that her son Caesarion would inherit the throne.

    Awhile back, I posted some pictures of coins with her image on them. She wasn't a looker by today's standards, but I think the reason men like Caesar and Marc Antony found her so intriguing was that she was well educated. She was completely abreast of the political situation of pretty much the entire Mediterranean and spoke numerous languages. The Romans weren't in the habit of educating their women, so to them a learned woman was quite a novelty. Throw in the cosmetics, perfumes, clothes and jewelry and she must have been pretty spectacular.

    Note, the Romans were by and large very strict moralists, and they were as disturbed by female sexuality as most cultures, so 2 would be notable, and they were pretty public.

    I've heard several historians who were pretty clear that Cleopatra's appeal was mostly mental, and she was considered not just educated, but exceptionally intelligent, and her charms were said to appeal to bright men especially, rather than the horny masses.

    Note, Ms Cleo was notorious for taking good care of what looks she did have, and a lot of beauty is contrivance anyways!

    It wasn't uncommon for women to remarry in Rome when their husbands died. Even an older widow might have many suitors who were after her lands or other holdings. But this is for the nobility, the lower classes would take what they could get. Even in the middle ages it wasn't uncommon for a noble woman to remarry. Eleanor of Aquataine was married twice.

    Some of the temples during the pagan era (especially Venus) had sacred prostitutes. This was a practice the Greeks, Phoenicians and the Mesopotamian city states all upheld, too. I know less about this in Rome than Greece, but in Greece, after their time as a temple prostitute, they could either stay with the temple and help train others, or get married and be completely accepted by the community. It was considered an honorable position with no shame.

    It's not so much that they were worried about female sexuality so much as they were worried about giving their inheritance to a son that wasn't theirs.
    mlneveseProontArvia
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    I was reading Plutarch's life of Pericles and came across this
    On seeing certain wealthy foreigners in Rome carrying puppies and young monkeys about in their bosoms and fondling them, Caesar asked, we are told, if the women in their country did not bear children, thus in right princely fashion rebuking those who squander on animals that proneness to love and loving affection which is ours by nature, and which is due only to our fellow-men.
    In this context it's Augustus Caesar, not Julius, BTW.

    It's interesting to see that there were people in Rome who thought that loving animals was shameful and their love should be reserved for people.
    StummvonBordwehrArviaJoenSoProont
  • ArviaArvia Member Posts: 2,101
    I was reading Plutarch's life of Pericles and came across this
    On seeing certain wealthy foreigners in Rome carrying puppies and young monkeys about in their bosoms and fondling them, Caesar asked, we are told, if the women in their country did not bear children, thus in right princely fashion rebuking those who squander on animals that proneness to love and loving affection which is ours by nature, and which is due only to our fellow-men.
    In this context it's Augustus Caesar, not Julius, BTW.

    It's interesting to see that there were people in Rome who thought that loving animals was shameful and their love should be reserved for people.

    Well, it still happens nowadays, at least where I live. If someone is single or childless and has a dog or cat they love, people talk about substitutes for real relationships.
    That's illogical because I know people with spouse and 4 children who still love their dog as part of the family .
    JoenSoDrHappyAngryProont
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    Although it still happens, I just found Augustus' position on it to be to the extreme. I like to think of the Odyssey and Odysseus' relationship with his dog for the opposite viewpoint.
    JoenSoProontmlneveseArvia
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 910
    Augustus always struck me as an uptight kind of fellow.
    mlneveseDrHappyAngryStummvonBordwehrIsewein
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Every now and then, you remember that people really haven't changed all that much.

    People haven't changed at all.I'm convinced the only thing that changed on Earth these last 7000 years was technology. Humanity is still the same.
    ThacoBellProont
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,651
    There term "dunce" was at first used to refer to disciples of the theologian, academic, and philosopher Duns-Scotus, at first used merely as a descriptive term, and later as a pejorative centuries after his death when the Dunces opposed the spread of humanism.

    Early academics always interest me. Their work almost always spreads across a wide variety of fields, sometimes working on routine scientific matters, sometimes writing broad philosophical works about the nature of various things, and sometimes writing religious treatises.
    StummvonBordwehrGrond0mlneveseDrHappyAngry
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,075
    Mongolia, the country from which we got the word "horde", is today the most sparsely populated country in the world.
    StummvonBordwehrGrond0SkatanProont
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,508
    edited April 2021
    A Camel and a Dromedary produce fertile offspring. It seems the single humped animals are used more for warfare than the dual humped animals. Maybe sitting between the humps hinders movement?
    mlneveseProont
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