I've been sort of documenting (though I'm pretty far behind) my minimal reload game. I have to say, it has made the whole experience a great deal more fun and challenging - even if my party has blown nearly 4k in gold at various temples. I have modded my game, however, and that has increased the reload count a few times due to bugs (or things I thought were bugs initially, but turned out to merely be changes)
Specifically, I have Unfinished Business, Aura, Isra, Sirene, Tenya, and SCS - though I left off all of the tactical challenges. SCS options to reduce the insane amount of +1 loot, increase mage/cleric AI abilities, etc. were installed. (Unfortunately, I also included the improved spiders, making phase spiders insane)
The party composition changed a bit early on, but has settled into PC (Eilrie), Aura, Imoen, Isra, Sirene, and Tenya. I wanted entirely new NPCs (for the most part) to shake things up, since I remember the original NPCs so well.
So far, I have reloaded due to 1) a bounty hunter at the Red Sheaf inn getting a lucky hit in on my level 1 PC, 2) Tenya going hostile when first talking to her (I thought I had ruined the companion quest, and I really wanted to take her as a party member, but it seems you have to complete the vanilla quest first), and 3) trying to figure out what was going with Prism/Isra (This may actually be a mod bug).
I have NOT reloaded for the (many) times the party lost Aura (I think they are up to 3600 gold at the temple by now for resurrection costs) or Sirene (800 gold). I have the party sleep very close to the map border so that there is an option to just run if sleeping in the woods goes badly, however, I either run or deal with it - no reloads for ambushes.
My own (house) rules:
1) Reload only PC death (RPing it as the eminently more sensible "party raised her from the dead") or serious bug.
2) EEKeeper only to resolve bug issues, but otherwise leave the stats/inventory alone. Yes, this means coughing up for remove curse if necessary.
3) No game altering items (One of the reasons I installed the SCS component converting a lot of these items to "fine", rather than "enchanted.) Rings, weapons, or armor found in the course of adventuring is okay.
4) As little metagaming as possible. Even if I strongly suspect something is on the map, I will still send a scout to find it.
What I've found is that the party is scouting ahead a lot more reliably, using potions and scrolls more effectively, and temples are more than just a place to drop off sick people for quests. The party became "regulars" at the one near Beregost. Also, running is an option. Rather than try to be badass, there may come a point where the party realizes that they are screwed, and high-tail it out.
Oh, and dealing with the sirens along the coast meant dealing with dire-charmed party members. The party simply backed away from said NPC at first, until Tenya decided that casting hold person was far more effective. This is almost invariably Imoen (thanks to SCS rules that make casters more selective) thanks to a certain item the party found. Having a crappy save vs spell score works both ways...
All in all, this has been one of the more fun runs so far! It does make it more challenging when you refuse to just reload after a battle has gone horribly wrong. Sirene was killed by a freaking spider - not even the fancy ones, just an ordinary huge spider. I later realized that the party had a potion of antidote, but forgot until after the trip back to the nearest temple. However, those punishing (and costly) trips weigh heavily on the party's choices.
I now understand the appeal of these challenges. I don't think I would try a true no-reload, especially as a level 1 PC, but vastly restricting yourself does make the game more interesting.
It's time. I've finally found the courage to start an SCS run. I'm expecting a substantial number of reloads, because I have no idea which changes exactly the game has in store for me now, but I'm going to stick to the minimal reload concept as in "no save-scumming, no reloading for NPC deaths or dialogue outcomes, scroll scribing failures etc".
I will reload for Charname death and for Imoen permadeath (for obvious story reasons). If another exception occurs along the way, I will explain it.
It's still version 2.5, because I don't want to risk running into compatibility issues somewhere mid-game with the 2.6 patch.
Difficulty setting is Tactical. If memory serves, I have installed all SCS components except for exchanging +1 ammo/weapons for fine ones, nerfing inquisitor dispel magic and removing arrows of dispelling from stores( I don't know if I'll actually buy them, but I want to keep the option). I have attached the weiDU.log in case anyone wants to know exactly.
Gore and Weather are disabled, maximum HP on level up is enabled (cheese, I know), and so is "no difficulty based damage increase" (the latter because SCS recommends it, the others because of personal preference.)
My roleplaying rule for paladins is no stealing, no breaking into locked houses unless there's very good reason (BG being the way it is, I might occasionally pretend to have knocked if searching for someone), and usually no breaking into and looting of tombs, though there might be exceptions due to circumstances.
I don't expect to be able to play and post very frequently, but it's mostly documenting the run for myself anyway, and maybe someone will find it entertaining to read how an SCS-newbie falls on her face repeatedly .
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Meet Elena, Cavalier:
(Portrait by Inar-of-Shilmista)
For weapon proficiencies, she has two pips each in longsword and flail/morning star. She will go with a shield in BG1 and later dual-wield.
This is a roleplayed run and Elena is a Paladin of Ilmater, but although she follows the merciful one of the Triad, she is not one of those who strive to live among the suffering and share their burden. There are different branches of Ilmatari, and this quote from the Forgotten Realms Wiki article about the Church of Ilmater better describes her more active attitude:
Worshipers of Ilmater also believed that all injustices should be challenged and that they should defend and aid the causes of the oppressed and unjustly treated. They were to act for and defend those who could not do so themselves. They were to stand up to every bully and tyrant, and resist them in any way, both small and great. Ilmatari were encouraged to hold to their principles and keep to their causes if they were right and just, no matter the risk and to be fearless about it. Consequently, they believed that a death with meaning was not shameful. (...) The Ilmatari were often the most caring and sensitive of people. They were also the most forgiving, known for accepting past enemies and endeavoring to repair past grievances.
((I have included the latter quote also to explain why, especially with Ascension installed, she might be inclined to take a certain decision at the beginning of ToB that I have never taken with a paladin of Tyr, Torm or Lathander, for example))
Elena has just left Candlekeep and rejoined with Imoen, searching the battle scene after the inital shock and will soon head to the FAI as Gorion had suggested.
I forgot to mention that I also haven't installed the SCS component that slows down how you gain reputation. No sense in delaying if you want to be a hero anyway .
I would love to include some storytelling again eventually, but right now I only have time for a summary of what I achieved during the weekend.
After Elena and Imoen checked out the site of the attack and didn't find too many clues, they avoided the road (and therefore didn't meet Xzar and Montaron) and searched for the FAI. They survived the wolf and found a diamond in a tree (Imoen won't be allowed to play her pranks and steal while Elena is watching, but her keen senses will be very useful in other situations), talked to Elminster, followed the road afterwards and arrived at the FAI in the dark. They entered the wrong building at first, helped Joya to reover her ring from some hobgoblinds and were then ambushed on the stairs of the inn.
Okay, at least SCS at Tactical difficulty doesn't change Tarnesh too much, or maybe we were just fast. Would have been embarrassing to have the first reload here. Elena has already broken two swords, the first one again Carbos in Candlekeep. Bad luck.
We recruited Khalid and Jaheira, and the fact that SCS allows you to level up your new party members manually from 0 was very nice. This way I could give Khalid points in longbow and bastard sword (instead of longsword, which Elena is already using) and Jaheira got points in club and darts. I don't like darts on mages, because they have a shorter range and make them get too close to enemies, but they're great to hit quickly and interrupt casters.
We went to Beregost and cleared Landrin's home of spiders (Elena went in alone, being immune to poison), then decided to go after the ogre with the belt fetish as well.
On our way back through Beregost, heading for the Song of the Morning temple, I forgot for a moment to pay attention to the street. Although I prefer to keep metagamng to a minimum, I usually try to find an excuse to avoid this encounter for a while.
We will show you what happens to cowards who attack a defenseless person!
Okay that was not what I meant to show them. I thought it was over. But now I know what people mean when they say "SCS plays fair". As long as there are still others standing, enemies don't go for the incapacitated party members, they focus on those that are active and therefore dangerous. Makes sense, as I usually do the same, but I was still surprised and felt we didn't quite deserve to win this.
Anyway, last one standing wins, and that was us.
Sorry, Neera. We defend the innocent, but that doesn't mean we want to walk around with a ticking bomb in our pocket. The way the the FAI is clear and safe.
After that, we talked down Marl, met and defeated Karlat, Neira and Silke.
Elena reched level 2.
In Nashkel we talked to Minsc and agreed to save Dynaheir. We took the straight route. From a RP point of view it made sense to get there quickly to save her, but of course the main reason to avoid exploring the maps on the way was our low-level party.
The gnoll stronghold was no big issue. I've seen there what "Better calls for help" component does, but when they started to come from more than one side, we retreated to the staircase and could easily defend our position.
We rescued Dynaheir, had the waylaid cutscene where Dorn appeared, helped him defeat his enemies that had threatend us, too, but declined his offer to travel together.
We rescued Branwen at the Nashkel Carnival and decided to split up with Khalid and Jaheira for the moment, because they were two people with good connections in this part of the world, and Branwen all alone in a strange country.
On our way to the mines we got waylaid by several hobgoblins with bows and had to carry Dynaheir to the temple afterwards, then we defeated Greywolf, went back to sell some loot and got waylaid again by hobgoblin archers who killed Dynaheir in two seconds, and then I started clicking on tombstones and found this nice inscription.
I don't think I noticed that here in BG before, but I remember seeing and laughing about the same words in Divinity: Original Sin on a grave in Cyseal at the old church where you meet Bracchus.
(and I also know not to repeatedly click on one particular tombstone in Nashkel when curiosity killed the cat paladin during my first run).
Now, the Nashkel mines. Except for the last level, they're rather easy in the unmodded game. With SCS, kobold guards have poisonous daggers, better call for help means drawing quite a crowd in those tunnels, and kobold commando have a nasty aim. When we had to carry Dynaheir and Minsc back to the temple for Raise Dead, we decided we needed a different strategy (btw I'm not paying tithe in this run. I need the money. Paladin roleplaying will be less strict in some aspects). Someone kindly reminded me to get the Wand of Sleep for crowd control as soon as I could afford it. Fortunately, sleeping in the mines area (outside) we were interrupted by a winter wolf, whose pelt greatly improved our financial situation. And we needed more hands to fight. So we went to search for allies and found a paladin just north of the FAI. We armed him with a bastard sword and a longbow, killed an Ankheg but couldn't afford the armor yet, so we stuffed the shell in a barrel next to the smithy in Beregost. Then we bought the Wand of Sleep from Thalantyr, withdrew from being mobbed by too many aggressive skeletons (why do they have to live in such a pissant town?) and, now better prepared, went back to the mines.
Now the approach was this: Scout, sneak close enough, shoot at one of them from the shadows and then draw them all to a place where I could control the terrain and fire the Wand of Sleep. Like in this example, I always tried to hide the squishier characters behing a corner and just have them move forward, shoot and retreat, while the more resilient party members went for the dangerous guys.
We still had to go back to the Nashkel temple once to raise Dynaheir. In the area with the trapped entrance to the last level, there were several kobold guards, a shaman and a chieftain with Arrows of Biting. So after another rest and adjusting Dynaheir's spellbook (she gained 2nd level spells!) it was time to go down.
Nice thing I didn't know about SCS: Some spells seem to appear automatically without need to scribe them from scrolls when a new level of spells is available. That's cool, because I remember one run where she was able to cast level 4 spells somewhere around the Cloakwood and I hadn't found any level 4 scrolls yet.
The kobolds and two commandos behind the bridge were taken out by the wand again and then quickly disposed of. Entering Mulahey's hideout, Imoen tried to sneak in but left the shadows right when she approached him, and got caught by Hold Person. Elena ran in quickly to protect her friend, the others got stuck surrounded by summoned minions. Ilmater have mercy.
Branwen landed a Silence spell on Mulahey, although that left her in a very vulnerable position. Elena had only a silenced Mulahey and two kobolds to keep from Imoen, but the others were outnumbered. The Wand of Sleep was with Imoen and therefore inaccessible, so I saw no chance other than to let Dynaheir throw a Web spell. I slightly misjudged the reach though. Branwen got caught, of course, there was no way to avoid that, but Minsc and Ajantis were at the edges and occasionally got stuck, too. Anyway, the skeletons and kobolds were a lot easier to handle now and in the end it was only Branwen who couldn't walk out of this and needed to be carried.
After taking all the evidence of Mulahey's deeds, and some loot with it, we went to revive our comrade at the temple and reported to Berrun Ghastkill. (With the explanation of having to leave quickly with Branwen's body before more kobolds might turn up, we didn't explore the cave any further. I want to keep Xan there as potential backup in case Dynaheir gets chunked, as I have experienced in another run. I made it then with Imoen dualed to mage just before Candlekeep, with only wands and scrolls, but I'd prefer not to do that again)
Of course, before being able to rest and recharge our spells, just after raising Branwen we ran into Nimbul. He turned invisible a few times, but in the end it didn't help him too much.
Now it's time to rest, heal, and then find that Tranzig guy. Branwen has a score to settle with him, too, so we have to be fast if we want some information from him first.
Character level: 3
Mods: SCS
Difficulty: Tactical
Reloads: 0
(not going to keep a counter on NPC deaths)
Okay, at least SCS at Tactical difficulty doesn't change Tarnesh too much, or maybe we were just fast. Would have been embarrassing to have the first reload here. Elena has already broken two swords, the first one again Carbos in Candlekeep. Bad luck.
Tarnesh actually has some specific overrides so that he doesn't play out much differently than vanilla. He's guaranteed to be a level 4 Conjurer and have spells Sleep, 2x Magic Missile, Horror, Mirror Image. That leaves one level 1 and one level 2 slot floating; he gets an offensive level 2 spell, and either Armor, Shield, or an offensive level 1 spell.
Vanilla Tarnesh is actually level 5, but he doesn't have any 3rd level spells. SCS chooses to lower his level rather than give him that upgrade.
And then, current versions of SCS reduce his threat in another way. The script blocks for single-class mages attacking with weapons were mostly removed; Tarnesh will only ever attack with his staff if (a) the difficulty is Basic, or (b) the target is helpless. Panicked is not helpless. So, if he hits you with a Horror, don't be too afraid. He won't follow it up with a whack to the head. For an extreme case, a level 1 elven mage with Shield active is basically completely safe from him.
As for breaking swords ... at least long swords are easy to come by. Just kill a few bandits; there are spawn points for them on the maps both north and south of the Friendly Arm.
Nice thing I didn't know about SCS: Some spells seem to appear automatically without need to scribe them from scrolls when a new level of spells is available. That's cool, because I remember one run where she was able to cast level 4 spells somewhere around the Cloakwood and I hadn't found any level 4 scrolls yet.
That's part of the NPC customization component. Vanilla mages/bards in BGEE get spells along with their joining XP triggers, so Dynaheir starts with Fireball if you pick her up at 32K XP. That component essentially extends this to arbitrary levels ... and apparently even if the character is staying in the party.
As for level 4 spell access before the Cloakwood, there's a few higher-level scrolls at the Ulgoth's Beard shop.
I'll probably join you in reporting here once my current run reaches BG2. Expect lots of cheese, including some things that have been specifically patched out in 2.6. I will abuse many strange things, but not the reload button.
Hi, @Arvia , I'm enjoying reading about your SCS run and your analysis of the ways it's different from the vanilla experience.
I'm curious if you took Neera's gem bag. I usually take it before I dismiss her (for the same reasons you do - wild mages are a hard pass from me regardless of their alignment), telling myself it's a reward for saving her from the Red Wizards, but I still have a pang of lawful good guilt in my conscience about it. Somehow it doesn't feel quite right. What was your opinion on that here?
Hi, @Arvia , I'm enjoying reading about your SCS run and your analysis of the ways it's different from the vanilla experience.
I'm curious if you took Neera's gem bag. I usually take it before I dismiss her (for the same reasons you do - wild mages are a hard pass from me regardless of their alignment), telling myself it's a reward for saving her from the Red Wizards, but I still have a pang of lawful good guilt in my conscience about it. Somehow it doesn't feel quite right. What was your opinion on that here?
Man, there's only one thing I can say to that:
She has a gem bag? Why are you telling me this now and not earlier?
I honestly didn't know about the gem bag. I used to feel that way about taking the invisibility potion from Jaheira.
You know very well how many similar situations we have discussed in the past, and usually I would have felt bad about taking things from NPCs I don't recruit, but at present I'm focusing more on the strategical challenge and give myself a little more leeway to find justification for some decisions that I wouldn't have taken in a super strict paladin run. Of course roleplaying is still important to me also in this playthrough, but I can distance myself a bit better if I've decided before that the focus will be to try out SCS with some roleplaying. I don't want to frustrate myself by putting too many restrictions on myself, and I don't feel bad for it. Of course I might get back to stricter roleplaying when I have more experience how SCS works. Right now I won't make it harder than necessary, because I still want to have fun.
Your justification as payment for helping her? If you still have a bad conscience in such a case, you could always give her a weapon, a potion or some gold in return before you send her off, and pretend you bought the bag from her.
Edit: About Jaheira, I traveled with her for a while and therefore took the potion. If I don't even pick them up at the FAI, I don't take it.
The thing about the gem bag? It's flagged as a critical item. If Neera joins your party, even for a moment, the bag will stay with the party. Dismiss her, and the bag is automatically handed over to you. And since Neera has her own quest, there's plenty of incentive for taking her on.
Neera's bag comes with a few gems already in it. Based on her backstory, those might well be stolen.
The thing about the gem bag? It's flagged as a critical item. If Neera joins your party, even for a moment, the bag will stay with the party. Dismiss her, and the bag is automatically handed over to you. And since Neera has her own quest, there's plenty of incentive for taking her on.
Neera's bag comes with a few gems already in it. Based on her backstory, those might well be stolen.
The fact that it might be stolen doesn't make taking it any better if it's about strict paladin ethics. But I didn't know about the critical item mechanic.
I don't doubt that Neera has an interesting quest, it's just that my latest BG:EE playthroughs we're minimal or no-reload attempts, and I won't risk a wild mage in the party in such a case, they're just too unpredictable.
If I decide to do a casual run where I try new things, I will take her along, as I have done with Rasaad in the past (who is too difficult to keep alive for my taste at low levels and too expensive to always carry to the temple in no or minimal reload), just to experience the new content.
When I take Neera for her quest in BG - and if playing no or minimum reload - I let her cast from scrolls or wands, but not from her spell book. She can cast Identify also with no surges, so she is useful still for utility.
Given her past experiences with wild surges, in my view this is even role-playable, both from her fear of doing harm and your charname's own fear of her causing harm if a paladin.
For me, this is not a big deal at all. There are mods that add containers to the game and you won't need to use the gem bag from Neera at all. And I can't match mods against RP-ing concepts.
To me, it just helps item management. I've been playing the game for many years, tried everything, from restricting myself from using items to allowing the bag of holding in Candlekeep. This doesn't affect the game difficulty, it doen't help you in hard fights. The only thing it can affect is probably a few thousands of GP saved from financially more effective trades from the container (eg. when you sell 100 short swords for more than 2 GP per each).
If there is a choice now, I would pick a challenge and/or RPing instead of artificial limitations on containers.
For me, this is not a big deal at all. There are mods that add containers to the game and you won't need to use the gem bag from Neera at all. And I can't match mods against RP-ing concepts.
To me, it just helps item management. I've been playing the game for many years, tried everything, from restricting myself from using items to allowing the bag of holding in Candlekeep. This doesn't affect the game difficulty, it doen't help you in hard fights. The only thing it can affect is probably a few thousands of GP saved from financially more effective trades from the container (eg. when you sell 100 short swords for more than 2 GP per each).
If there is a choice now, I would pick a challenge and/or RPing instead of artificial limitations on containers.
Sure, containers are for convenience, not game difficulty. It was a purely RP related question, like this: Is it stealing and therefore morally unacceptable for a paladin to let an NPC join the party just to take their item(s) and then kick them out again?
A gem bag won't decide a battle. Jaheira's potion of invisibility might make a difference between life and death, though.
Okay, that looked like business as usual. So, I sent in Dynaheir and Branwen to approach carefully and cast Web and Silence as soon as they were in range.
Great. Of all things, it was Free Action pre-cast by him. I guess it would have been too convenient otherwise... anyway, at least the pesky little army of undead was stuck in the web and couldn't swarm us. But Bassilus immediatly cast Greater Command, which knocked out Branwen and Elena. Fortunately that happened when her spell was flying already, and he was successfully Silenced.
We got him to Badly Injured with the Wand of Frost, Wand of Magic Missile (Imoen) and ranged weapons, Chromatic Orb etc, but then his Silence wore off and he healed himself very quickly, killed Dynaheir, got beaten to Near Death again and cast Sanctuary, healed himself again and buffed the skeletons, which then killed the unconscious Branwen (at least I had kept Elena, who doesn't have missile weapons, at the back in the beginning, so she was out of the line of fire when unconscious), but when his Sanctuary wore off, we were all ready to interrupt him quickly and go in for the killing blow.
Next was Mutamin's garden. Imoen scouted (I don't have all the basilisk locations memorized exactly yet) and Elena went in solo to tank the basilisks under Protection from Petrification, consuming several healing potions of course. Mutamin himself was scouted out, Elena went in to distract the basilisk and Dynaheir came just close enough to one-shot him with the Wand of Frost. Didn't feel like finding out what he was capable of when given enough the time.
I think we all had level 4 by then.
Afterwards, my first reload. At the south of the map where we saved Arabella the cow, we got ambushed by an ogre mage. Those are apparently very dangerous in SCS when the party is still below level 5. All except Imoen were unconscious immediately, and of course she didn't last long, although she heroically brought him to Badly Injured before passing out. Then, it was him hacking at sleeping people and therefore only a matter of time.
That was, for an SCS newbie, almost impossible to anticipate. I don't remember exactly what we did the second time but we shot the Wand of Frost at him to interrupt him and then just killed him very quickly. I got a valuable advice for the future to always pause immediately when an enemy casts, check the direction the spell is flying and have at least my main character run out of its line of fire. I'll try to keep that in mind.
Ironically, after that fight Branwen reached level 5, so she won't be affected by Sleep anymore and can cast Exaltation to free another one from that effect.
We killed Arghain and now finally had a magical weapon for Minsc, too. So, we needed level 5 for all, to avoid more of those helpless situations. Time to check out the coast.
On our way, we were ambushed by the amazons, which are a waylaid encounter in SCS. With Glitterdust, Invisibility Purge and Chaos of Battle (Branwen's innate buff that gives bonus to party and penalty to enemies) and then just melee/ranged attacks and some Chromatic Orbs we killed them without casualties on our side. Now Imoen has a better armor, too.
The sirens weren't that much different from vanilla, as far as I remember. With a Cavalier, the most dangerous to me was their melee attack which can deal Feeblemind. So basically I went in to solo them until I got feebleminded, then sent in the others to distract them while Branwen cast Exaltation on Elena, and continued. Of course that led to occasionally charmed companions, but with kiting and healing nobody was seriously injured by that.
We brought Nathan's body home to his poor dad (gave him money, too, of course) and took the Wand of Fire from the Ankheg nest.
With everyone now safely at level 5, our inventory stacked with potions, the necklace of missile, Wands of Frost and Fire, a few scrolls to cast more Web spells, and some magical/elemental bullets and arrows, I felt we were well prepared for the bandit camp.
I now realize I have no screenshot from that battle. I was too nervous and focused.
We approached the camp from the south, past those ruins and through that gap in the trees where invisible Imoen spotted a group of them including Taurgosz Khosann. She came back and we positioned us near that gap, carefully inching closer. (I had heard before that in SCS you have to fight the whole camp at once, but the details still took me by surprise). My biggest mistake: I didn't pre-buff before we went closer. Stupid. It's not metagaming if Imoen has scouted AND we know we're looking for trouble. I have no idea why I didn't do it. Before we were in range to hurl stuff at the group, a bandit hidden away in the trees to our side spotted us and raised the alarm. Then we buffed with Remove Fear and Chaos of Battle, I let Dynaheir throw a fireball from her wand in the direction of the group around Khosann (SCS changed the amount of level 2 spells she had in her book automatically, but in exchange she had zero spells on level 3. so no fireball there. Just skull trap and ice lance learned from scrolls) and then there were tons of archers who took out Dynaheir within three seconds (she had Armor and Shield, didn't help much) before she could throw even a Web. (maybe I should have done that first, but I was afraid she'd get interrupted and the wand is just faster).
So Plan B sprang into action, without a mage. I took our only Oil of Speed, Ajantis shot a missile blast from the necklace and we others hurled potions of explosion and oils of fiery burning everywhere, plus a shot of the wand of sleep on some of the simple bandits, so that they wouldn't shoot everyone. Imoen focused on the mage with fire and acid arrows, Branwen threw a Holy Smite and Hold Person and then shot bullets of electricity. I don't remember how Imoen was killed, but Minsc was taken down by Khosann, whose attacks were faster than any stepping back and gulping potions of healing could compensate. I took Potions of Invulnerability and Regeneration to stay alive and managed to take him down, and kept Ajantis (who switched between his bastard sword+1 and shooting acid arrows, until he got blinded and therefore kept to melee) and Branwen alive with the very few potions of extra healing that we had, so in the end it was the three of us among a pile of corpses.
Not exactly as I had planned, but what do they say about battle plans? They last until the first arrow is shot and the first sword is drawn. We're mostly alive and they aren't, so I'll count that as a win.
Also, another good advice I took (thanks @JuliusBorisov ) was to find the challenge in roleplaying and battle tactics, not inventory management, so I consoled in a Bag of Holding. I do realize this has significant impact on game difficulty, because it means I don't have to leave essential stuff behind when I have multiple dead party members to carry back to a temple, and that has a significant impact on the probability to survive waylaid encounters, where I might otherwise also need to leave stuff on maps that I can't access again afterwards. But the challenge I look for lies in other things, not in the tedious chore of traveling back and forth 5 times, waylaid situations between every map, just to Raise everyone and transport their equipment.
A very exciting update. Thank you for taking time to share. You seem to be doing amazingly well with all the SCS upgrades.
I remember in first edition AD&D, slapping or wounding would awaken a magically Sleeping creature, so it wasn't an automatic death sentence to enemies (or friends), although it was still excellent crowd control. I don't think a first level spell was ever intended to be such a powerful "I win" button. There's no defense for a low level party. I guess the only chance is to interrupt really quickly, but it's an almost instant cast spell.
A very exciting update. Thank you for taking time to share. You seem to be doing amazingly well with all the SCS upgrades.
I remember in first edition AD&D, slapping or wounding would awaken a magically Sleeping creature, so it wasn't an automatic death sentence to enemies (or friends), although it was still excellent crowd control. I don't think a first level spell was ever intended to be such a powerful "I win" button. There's no defense for a low level party. I guess the only chance is to interrupt really quickly, but it's an almost instant cast spell.
That's interesting. Sounds more balanced to make it only incapacitating, but wake the character when they get hit. Sure, Sleep as it is is more a coma and quite powerful for level 1. Incapacitates multiple characters, lasts very long and comes with a heavy saving throw penalty.
I'm not complaining, though. SCS only made that ogre mage do what I've been doing to kobold swarms etc, it only used against me what I could use against others. Besides, the AI in SCS makes him go for the party members that aren't incapacitated first. He killed Imoen who was still standing and only then went for the unconscious folks, starting with the mage and then going for the main character. (Unlike the mechanic in SoD for example, where every enemy suddenly rushes your incapacitated party member).
I could complain that it's unfair, but I didn't consider it overpowered when I was the one using it against enemies, so I got what I deserved, I guess .
As for the SCS upgrades, although I thank you for your positive feedback and am happy myself that it goes rather well, keep in mind that I only play on Tactical difficulty (that's the middle one), not hardcore or insane. So while I have all those upgrades installed like better calls for help, smarter mages and clerics etc, they don't use all their pre-buffs and special abilities all the time.
Also, I have been spending limited resources early on that I might sorely miss in later fights.
While I haven't played it, I believe that Icewind Dale has characters wake from Sleep on being damaged. The sleep effect in the engine has a "wake on damage" flag, so it could easily be changed in the BG series if one wanted to.
Of course, there's a simple defense against the Sleep spell (and the similar Color Spray). Just pick up a few levels and you're immune. The SCS AI is smart enough not to use it unless there's someone vulnerable in the party ... mostly. The one exception I've seen is dual-class characters. In a party with Imoen as a level 6 thief dual-classed to a mage of level <5 and all other characters at or above level 5, enemy mages love to cast Sleep at Imoen. Even though she actually has 6 HD and is immune.
Of course, there's a simple defense against the Sleep spell (and the similar Color Spray). Just pick up a few levels and you're immune. The SCS AI is smart enough not to use it unless there's someone vulnerable in the party ... mostly. The one exception I've seen is dual-class characters. In a party with Imoen as a level 6 thief dual-classed to a mage of level <5 and all other characters at or above level 5, enemy mages love to cast Sleep at Imoen. Even though she actually has 6 HD and is immune.
Well yes, of course that's the obvious protection, but it requires quite a lot of metagaming, knowledge of encounters and game time to avoid every encounter where someone might use Sleep or Colour Spray until a whole party of 6 people has reached level 5. You can run, for example, into Neera and the Thay wizards at level 1, same Zordral, and the ogre mages can appear as waylaid encounters along the coast, and that's only the first that come to mind. I can't get to level 5 without going anywhere.
So, my conclusion for the future at low levels is to always try to interrupt spellcasting as soon as possible. Which I've been doing anyway, but Sleep is so fast. So maybe an emergency solution might be a potion of invisibility or magic blocking, or Oil of Speed and running.
Comments
Specifically, I have Unfinished Business, Aura, Isra, Sirene, Tenya, and SCS - though I left off all of the tactical challenges. SCS options to reduce the insane amount of +1 loot, increase mage/cleric AI abilities, etc. were installed. (Unfortunately, I also included the improved spiders, making phase spiders insane)
The party composition changed a bit early on, but has settled into PC (Eilrie), Aura, Imoen, Isra, Sirene, and Tenya. I wanted entirely new NPCs (for the most part) to shake things up, since I remember the original NPCs so well.
So far, I have reloaded due to 1) a bounty hunter at the Red Sheaf inn getting a lucky hit in on my level 1 PC, 2) Tenya going hostile when first talking to her (I thought I had ruined the companion quest, and I really wanted to take her as a party member, but it seems you have to complete the vanilla quest first), and 3) trying to figure out what was going with Prism/Isra (This may actually be a mod bug).
I have NOT reloaded for the (many) times the party lost Aura (I think they are up to 3600 gold at the temple by now for resurrection costs) or Sirene (800 gold). I have the party sleep very close to the map border so that there is an option to just run if sleeping in the woods goes badly, however, I either run or deal with it - no reloads for ambushes.
My own (house) rules:
1) Reload only PC death (RPing it as the eminently more sensible "party raised her from the dead") or serious bug.
2) EEKeeper only to resolve bug issues, but otherwise leave the stats/inventory alone. Yes, this means coughing up for remove curse if necessary.
3) No game altering items (One of the reasons I installed the SCS component converting a lot of these items to "fine", rather than "enchanted.) Rings, weapons, or armor found in the course of adventuring is okay.
4) As little metagaming as possible. Even if I strongly suspect something is on the map, I will still send a scout to find it.
What I've found is that the party is scouting ahead a lot more reliably, using potions and scrolls more effectively, and temples are more than just a place to drop off sick people for quests. The party became "regulars" at the one near Beregost. Also, running is an option. Rather than try to be badass, there may come a point where the party realizes that they are screwed, and high-tail it out.
Oh, and dealing with the sirens along the coast meant dealing with dire-charmed party members. The party simply backed away from said NPC at first, until Tenya decided that casting hold person was far more effective. This is almost invariably Imoen (thanks to SCS rules that make casters more selective) thanks to a certain item the party found. Having a crappy save vs spell score works both ways...
All in all, this has been one of the more fun runs so far! It does make it more challenging when you refuse to just reload after a battle has gone horribly wrong. Sirene was killed by a freaking spider - not even the fancy ones, just an ordinary huge spider. I later realized that the party had a potion of antidote, but forgot until after the trip back to the nearest temple. However, those punishing (and costly) trips weigh heavily on the party's choices.
I now understand the appeal of these challenges. I don't think I would try a true no-reload, especially as a level 1 PC, but vastly restricting yourself does make the game more interesting.
I will reload for Charname death and for Imoen permadeath (for obvious story reasons). If another exception occurs along the way, I will explain it.
It's still version 2.5, because I don't want to risk running into compatibility issues somewhere mid-game with the 2.6 patch.
Difficulty setting is Tactical. If memory serves, I have installed all SCS components except for exchanging +1 ammo/weapons for fine ones, nerfing inquisitor dispel magic and removing arrows of dispelling from stores( I don't know if I'll actually buy them, but I want to keep the option). I have attached the weiDU.log in case anyone wants to know exactly.
Gore and Weather are disabled, maximum HP on level up is enabled (cheese, I know), and so is "no difficulty based damage increase" (the latter because SCS recommends it, the others because of personal preference.)
My roleplaying rule for paladins is no stealing, no breaking into locked houses unless there's very good reason (BG being the way it is, I might occasionally pretend to have knocked if searching for someone), and usually no breaking into and looting of tombs, though there might be exceptions due to circumstances.
I don't expect to be able to play and post very frequently, but it's mostly documenting the run for myself anyway, and maybe someone will find it entertaining to read how an SCS-newbie falls on her face repeatedly
************************************
Meet Elena, Cavalier:
(Portrait by Inar-of-Shilmista)
For weapon proficiencies, she has two pips each in longsword and flail/morning star. She will go with a shield in BG1 and later dual-wield.
This is a roleplayed run and Elena is a Paladin of Ilmater, but although she follows the merciful one of the Triad, she is not one of those who strive to live among the suffering and share their burden. There are different branches of Ilmatari, and this quote from the Forgotten Realms Wiki article about the Church of Ilmater better describes her more active attitude:
Worshipers of Ilmater also believed that all injustices should be challenged and that they should defend and aid the causes of the oppressed and unjustly treated. They were to act for and defend those who could not do so themselves. They were to stand up to every bully and tyrant, and resist them in any way, both small and great. Ilmatari were encouraged to hold to their principles and keep to their causes if they were right and just, no matter the risk and to be fearless about it. Consequently, they believed that a death with meaning was not shameful. (...) The Ilmatari were often the most caring and sensitive of people. They were also the most forgiving, known for accepting past enemies and endeavoring to repair past grievances.
((I have included the latter quote also to explain why, especially with Ascension installed, she might be inclined to take a certain decision at the beginning of ToB that I have never taken with a paladin of Tyr, Torm or Lathander, for example))
Elena has just left Candlekeep and rejoined with Imoen, searching the battle scene after the inital shock and will soon head to the FAI as Gorion had suggested.
I would love to include some storytelling again eventually, but right now I only have time for a summary of what I achieved during the weekend.
After Elena and Imoen checked out the site of the attack and didn't find too many clues, they avoided the road (and therefore didn't meet Xzar and Montaron) and searched for the FAI. They survived the wolf and found a diamond in a tree (Imoen won't be allowed to play her pranks and steal while Elena is watching, but her keen senses will be very useful in other situations), talked to Elminster, followed the road afterwards and arrived at the FAI in the dark. They entered the wrong building at first, helped Joya to reover her ring from some hobgoblinds and were then ambushed on the stairs of the inn.
Okay, at least SCS at Tactical difficulty doesn't change Tarnesh too much, or maybe we were just fast. Would have been embarrassing to have the first reload here. Elena has already broken two swords, the first one again Carbos in Candlekeep. Bad luck.
We recruited Khalid and Jaheira, and the fact that SCS allows you to level up your new party members manually from 0 was very nice. This way I could give Khalid points in longbow and bastard sword (instead of longsword, which Elena is already using) and Jaheira got points in club and darts. I don't like darts on mages, because they have a shorter range and make them get too close to enemies, but they're great to hit quickly and interrupt casters.
We went to Beregost and cleared Landrin's home of spiders (Elena went in alone, being immune to poison), then decided to go after the ogre with the belt fetish as well.
On our way back through Beregost, heading for the Song of the Morning temple, I forgot for a moment to pay attention to the street. Although I prefer to keep metagamng to a minimum, I usually try to find an excuse to avoid this encounter for a while.
We will show you what happens to cowards who attack a defenseless person!
Okay that was not what I meant to show them. I thought it was over. But now I know what people mean when they say "SCS plays fair". As long as there are still others standing, enemies don't go for the incapacitated party members, they focus on those that are active and therefore dangerous. Makes sense, as I usually do the same, but I was still surprised and felt we didn't quite deserve to win this.
Anyway, last one standing wins, and that was us.
Sorry, Neera. We defend the innocent, but that doesn't mean we want to walk around with a ticking bomb in our pocket. The way the the FAI is clear and safe.
After that, we talked down Marl, met and defeated Karlat, Neira and Silke.
Elena reched level 2.
In Nashkel we talked to Minsc and agreed to save Dynaheir. We took the straight route. From a RP point of view it made sense to get there quickly to save her, but of course the main reason to avoid exploring the maps on the way was our low-level party.
The gnoll stronghold was no big issue. I've seen there what "Better calls for help" component does, but when they started to come from more than one side, we retreated to the staircase and could easily defend our position.
We rescued Dynaheir, had the waylaid cutscene where Dorn appeared, helped him defeat his enemies that had threatend us, too, but declined his offer to travel together.
We rescued Branwen at the Nashkel Carnival and decided to split up with Khalid and Jaheira for the moment, because they were two people with good connections in this part of the world, and Branwen all alone in a strange country.
On our way to the mines we got waylaid by several hobgoblins with bows and had to carry Dynaheir to the temple afterwards, then we defeated Greywolf, went back to sell some loot and got waylaid again by hobgoblin archers who killed Dynaheir in two seconds, and then I started clicking on tombstones and found this nice inscription.
I don't think I noticed that here in BG before, but I remember seeing and laughing about the same words in Divinity: Original Sin on a grave in Cyseal at the old church where you meet Bracchus.
(and I also know not to repeatedly click on one particular tombstone in Nashkel when curiosity killed the cat paladin during my first run).
Now, the Nashkel mines. Except for the last level, they're rather easy in the unmodded game. With SCS, kobold guards have poisonous daggers, better call for help means drawing quite a crowd in those tunnels, and kobold commando have a nasty aim. When we had to carry Dynaheir and Minsc back to the temple for Raise Dead, we decided we needed a different strategy (btw I'm not paying tithe in this run. I need the money. Paladin roleplaying will be less strict in some aspects). Someone kindly reminded me to get the Wand of Sleep for crowd control as soon as I could afford it. Fortunately, sleeping in the mines area (outside) we were interrupted by a winter wolf, whose pelt greatly improved our financial situation. And we needed more hands to fight. So we went to search for allies and found a paladin just north of the FAI. We armed him with a bastard sword and a longbow, killed an Ankheg but couldn't afford the armor yet, so we stuffed the shell in a barrel next to the smithy in Beregost. Then we bought the Wand of Sleep from Thalantyr, withdrew from being mobbed by too many aggressive skeletons (why do they have to live in such a pissant town?) and, now better prepared, went back to the mines.
Now the approach was this: Scout, sneak close enough, shoot at one of them from the shadows and then draw them all to a place where I could control the terrain and fire the Wand of Sleep. Like in this example, I always tried to hide the squishier characters behing a corner and just have them move forward, shoot and retreat, while the more resilient party members went for the dangerous guys.
We still had to go back to the Nashkel temple once to raise Dynaheir. In the area with the trapped entrance to the last level, there were several kobold guards, a shaman and a chieftain with Arrows of Biting. So after another rest and adjusting Dynaheir's spellbook (she gained 2nd level spells!) it was time to go down.
Nice thing I didn't know about SCS: Some spells seem to appear automatically without need to scribe them from scrolls when a new level of spells is available. That's cool, because I remember one run where she was able to cast level 4 spells somewhere around the Cloakwood and I hadn't found any level 4 scrolls yet.
The kobolds and two commandos behind the bridge were taken out by the wand again and then quickly disposed of. Entering Mulahey's hideout, Imoen tried to sneak in but left the shadows right when she approached him, and got caught by Hold Person. Elena ran in quickly to protect her friend, the others got stuck surrounded by summoned minions. Ilmater have mercy.
Branwen landed a Silence spell on Mulahey, although that left her in a very vulnerable position. Elena had only a silenced Mulahey and two kobolds to keep from Imoen, but the others were outnumbered. The Wand of Sleep was with Imoen and therefore inaccessible, so I saw no chance other than to let Dynaheir throw a Web spell. I slightly misjudged the reach though. Branwen got caught, of course, there was no way to avoid that, but Minsc and Ajantis were at the edges and occasionally got stuck, too. Anyway, the skeletons and kobolds were a lot easier to handle now and in the end it was only Branwen who couldn't walk out of this and needed to be carried.
After taking all the evidence of Mulahey's deeds, and some loot with it, we went to revive our comrade at the temple and reported to Berrun Ghastkill. (With the explanation of having to leave quickly with Branwen's body before more kobolds might turn up, we didn't explore the cave any further. I want to keep Xan there as potential backup in case Dynaheir gets chunked, as I have experienced in another run. I made it then with Imoen dualed to mage just before Candlekeep, with only wands and scrolls, but I'd prefer not to do that again)
Of course, before being able to rest and recharge our spells, just after raising Branwen we ran into Nimbul. He turned invisible a few times, but in the end it didn't help him too much.
Now it's time to rest, heal, and then find that Tranzig guy. Branwen has a score to settle with him, too, so we have to be fast if we want some information from him first.
Character level: 3
Mods: SCS
Difficulty: Tactical
Reloads: 0
(not going to keep a counter on NPC deaths)
Vanilla Tarnesh is actually level 5, but he doesn't have any 3rd level spells. SCS chooses to lower his level rather than give him that upgrade.
And then, current versions of SCS reduce his threat in another way. The script blocks for single-class mages attacking with weapons were mostly removed; Tarnesh will only ever attack with his staff if (a) the difficulty is Basic, or (b) the target is helpless. Panicked is not helpless. So, if he hits you with a Horror, don't be too afraid. He won't follow it up with a whack to the head. For an extreme case, a level 1 elven mage with Shield active is basically completely safe from him.
As for breaking swords ... at least long swords are easy to come by. Just kill a few bandits; there are spawn points for them on the maps both north and south of the Friendly Arm.
That's part of the NPC customization component. Vanilla mages/bards in BGEE get spells along with their joining XP triggers, so Dynaheir starts with Fireball if you pick her up at 32K XP. That component essentially extends this to arbitrary levels ... and apparently even if the character is staying in the party.
As for level 4 spell access before the Cloakwood, there's a few higher-level scrolls at the Ulgoth's Beard shop.
I'll probably join you in reporting here once my current run reaches BG2. Expect lots of cheese, including some things that have been specifically patched out in 2.6. I will abuse many strange things, but not the reload button.
I'm curious if you took Neera's gem bag. I usually take it before I dismiss her (for the same reasons you do - wild mages are a hard pass from me regardless of their alignment), telling myself it's a reward for saving her from the Red Wizards, but I still have a pang of lawful good guilt in my conscience about it. Somehow it doesn't feel quite right. What was your opinion on that here?
Man, there's only one thing I can say to that:
She has a gem bag? Why are you telling me this now and not earlier?
I honestly didn't know about the gem bag. I used to feel that way about taking the invisibility potion from Jaheira.
You know very well how many similar situations we have discussed in the past, and usually I would have felt bad about taking things from NPCs I don't recruit, but at present I'm focusing more on the strategical challenge and give myself a little more leeway to find justification for some decisions that I wouldn't have taken in a super strict paladin run. Of course roleplaying is still important to me also in this playthrough, but I can distance myself a bit better if I've decided before that the focus will be to try out SCS with some roleplaying. I don't want to frustrate myself by putting too many restrictions on myself, and I don't feel bad for it. Of course I might get back to stricter roleplaying when I have more experience how SCS works. Right now I won't make it harder than necessary, because I still want to have fun.
Your justification as payment for helping her? If you still have a bad conscience in such a case, you could always give her a weapon, a potion or some gold in return before you send her off, and pretend you bought the bag from her.
Edit: About Jaheira, I traveled with her for a while and therefore took the potion. If I don't even pick them up at the FAI, I don't take it.
Neera's bag comes with a few gems already in it. Based on her backstory, those might well be stolen.
The fact that it might be stolen doesn't make taking it any better if it's about strict paladin ethics. But I didn't know about the critical item mechanic.
I don't doubt that Neera has an interesting quest, it's just that my latest BG:EE playthroughs we're minimal or no-reload attempts, and I won't risk a wild mage in the party in such a case, they're just too unpredictable.
If I decide to do a casual run where I try new things, I will take her along, as I have done with Rasaad in the past (who is too difficult to keep alive for my taste at low levels and too expensive to always carry to the temple in no or minimal reload), just to experience the new content.
Given her past experiences with wild surges, in my view this is even role-playable, both from her fear of doing harm and your charname's own fear of her causing harm if a paladin.
To me, it just helps item management. I've been playing the game for many years, tried everything, from restricting myself from using items to allowing the bag of holding in Candlekeep. This doesn't affect the game difficulty, it doen't help you in hard fights. The only thing it can affect is probably a few thousands of GP saved from financially more effective trades from the container (eg. when you sell 100 short swords for more than 2 GP per each).
If there is a choice now, I would pick a challenge and/or RPing instead of artificial limitations on containers.
Sure, containers are for convenience, not game difficulty. It was a purely RP related question, like this: Is it stealing and therefore morally unacceptable for a paladin to let an NPC join the party just to take their item(s) and then kick them out again?
A gem bag won't decide a battle. Jaheira's potion of invisibility might make a difference between life and death, though.
Tranzig: No problem.
Bassilus: Bad!
Okay, that looked like business as usual. So, I sent in Dynaheir and Branwen to approach carefully and cast Web and Silence as soon as they were in range.
Great. Of all things, it was Free Action pre-cast by him. I guess it would have been too convenient otherwise... anyway, at least the pesky little army of undead was stuck in the web and couldn't swarm us. But Bassilus immediatly cast Greater Command, which knocked out Branwen and Elena. Fortunately that happened when her spell was flying already, and he was successfully Silenced.
We got him to Badly Injured with the Wand of Frost, Wand of Magic Missile (Imoen) and ranged weapons, Chromatic Orb etc, but then his Silence wore off and he healed himself very quickly, killed Dynaheir, got beaten to Near Death again and cast Sanctuary, healed himself again and buffed the skeletons, which then killed the unconscious Branwen (at least I had kept Elena, who doesn't have missile weapons, at the back in the beginning, so she was out of the line of fire when unconscious), but when his Sanctuary wore off, we were all ready to interrupt him quickly and go in for the killing blow.
Next was Mutamin's garden. Imoen scouted (I don't have all the basilisk locations memorized exactly yet) and Elena went in solo to tank the basilisks under Protection from Petrification, consuming several healing potions of course. Mutamin himself was scouted out, Elena went in to distract the basilisk and Dynaheir came just close enough to one-shot him with the Wand of Frost. Didn't feel like finding out what he was capable of when given enough the time.
I think we all had level 4 by then.
Afterwards, my first reload. At the south of the map where we saved Arabella the cow, we got ambushed by an ogre mage. Those are apparently very dangerous in SCS when the party is still below level 5. All except Imoen were unconscious immediately, and of course she didn't last long, although she heroically brought him to Badly Injured before passing out. Then, it was him hacking at sleeping people and therefore only a matter of time.
That was, for an SCS newbie, almost impossible to anticipate. I don't remember exactly what we did the second time but we shot the Wand of Frost at him to interrupt him and then just killed him very quickly. I got a valuable advice for the future to always pause immediately when an enemy casts, check the direction the spell is flying and have at least my main character run out of its line of fire. I'll try to keep that in mind.
Ironically, after that fight Branwen reached level 5, so she won't be affected by Sleep anymore and can cast Exaltation to free another one from that effect.
We killed Arghain and now finally had a magical weapon for Minsc, too. So, we needed level 5 for all, to avoid more of those helpless situations. Time to check out the coast.
On our way, we were ambushed by the amazons, which are a waylaid encounter in SCS. With Glitterdust, Invisibility Purge and Chaos of Battle (Branwen's innate buff that gives bonus to party and penalty to enemies) and then just melee/ranged attacks and some Chromatic Orbs we killed them without casualties on our side. Now Imoen has a better armor, too.
The sirens weren't that much different from vanilla, as far as I remember. With a Cavalier, the most dangerous to me was their melee attack which can deal Feeblemind. So basically I went in to solo them until I got feebleminded, then sent in the others to distract them while Branwen cast Exaltation on Elena, and continued. Of course that led to occasionally charmed companions, but with kiting and healing nobody was seriously injured by that.
We brought Nathan's body home to his poor dad (gave him money, too, of course) and took the Wand of Fire from the Ankheg nest.
With everyone now safely at level 5, our inventory stacked with potions, the necklace of missile, Wands of Frost and Fire, a few scrolls to cast more Web spells, and some magical/elemental bullets and arrows, I felt we were well prepared for the bandit camp.
I now realize I have no screenshot from that battle. I was too nervous and focused.
We approached the camp from the south, past those ruins and through that gap in the trees where invisible Imoen spotted a group of them including Taurgosz Khosann. She came back and we positioned us near that gap, carefully inching closer. (I had heard before that in SCS you have to fight the whole camp at once, but the details still took me by surprise). My biggest mistake: I didn't pre-buff before we went closer. Stupid. It's not metagaming if Imoen has scouted AND we know we're looking for trouble. I have no idea why I didn't do it. Before we were in range to hurl stuff at the group, a bandit hidden away in the trees to our side spotted us and raised the alarm. Then we buffed with Remove Fear and Chaos of Battle, I let Dynaheir throw a fireball from her wand in the direction of the group around Khosann (SCS changed the amount of level 2 spells she had in her book automatically, but in exchange she had zero spells on level 3. so no fireball there. Just skull trap and ice lance learned from scrolls) and then there were tons of archers who took out Dynaheir within three seconds (she had Armor and Shield, didn't help much) before she could throw even a Web. (maybe I should have done that first, but I was afraid she'd get interrupted and the wand is just faster).
So Plan B sprang into action, without a mage. I took our only Oil of Speed, Ajantis shot a missile blast from the necklace and we others hurled potions of explosion and oils of fiery burning everywhere, plus a shot of the wand of sleep on some of the simple bandits, so that they wouldn't shoot everyone. Imoen focused on the mage with fire and acid arrows, Branwen threw a Holy Smite and Hold Person and then shot bullets of electricity. I don't remember how Imoen was killed, but Minsc was taken down by Khosann, whose attacks were faster than any stepping back and gulping potions of healing could compensate. I took Potions of Invulnerability and Regeneration to stay alive and managed to take him down, and kept Ajantis (who switched between his bastard sword+1 and shooting acid arrows, until he got blinded and therefore kept to melee) and Branwen alive with the very few potions of extra healing that we had, so in the end it was the three of us among a pile of corpses.
Not exactly as I had planned, but what do they say about battle plans? They last until the first arrow is shot and the first sword is drawn. We're mostly alive and they aren't, so I'll count that as a win.
Also, another good advice I took (thanks @JuliusBorisov ) was to find the challenge in roleplaying and battle tactics, not inventory management, so I consoled in a Bag of Holding. I do realize this has significant impact on game difficulty, because it means I don't have to leave essential stuff behind when I have multiple dead party members to carry back to a temple, and that has a significant impact on the probability to survive waylaid encounters, where I might otherwise also need to leave stuff on maps that I can't access again afterwards. But the challenge I look for lies in other things, not in the tedious chore of traveling back and forth 5 times, waylaid situations between every map, just to Raise everyone and transport their equipment.
Party level: 5
Version: 2.5
Mods: SCS, Tactical difficulty
Reloads: 1 (ogre mage)
I remember in first edition AD&D, slapping or wounding would awaken a magically Sleeping creature, so it wasn't an automatic death sentence to enemies (or friends), although it was still excellent crowd control. I don't think a first level spell was ever intended to be such a powerful "I win" button. There's no defense for a low level party. I guess the only chance is to interrupt really quickly, but it's an almost instant cast spell.
That's interesting. Sounds more balanced to make it only incapacitating, but wake the character when they get hit. Sure, Sleep as it is is more a coma and quite powerful for level 1. Incapacitates multiple characters, lasts very long and comes with a heavy saving throw penalty.
I'm not complaining, though. SCS only made that ogre mage do what I've been doing to kobold swarms etc, it only used against me what I could use against others. Besides, the AI in SCS makes him go for the party members that aren't incapacitated first. He killed Imoen who was still standing and only then went for the unconscious folks, starting with the mage and then going for the main character. (Unlike the mechanic in SoD for example, where every enemy suddenly rushes your incapacitated party member).
I could complain that it's unfair, but I didn't consider it overpowered when I was the one using it against enemies, so I got what I deserved, I guess
As for the SCS upgrades, although I thank you for your positive feedback and am happy myself that it goes rather well, keep in mind that I only play on Tactical difficulty (that's the middle one), not hardcore or insane. So while I have all those upgrades installed like better calls for help, smarter mages and clerics etc, they don't use all their pre-buffs and special abilities all the time.
Also, I have been spending limited resources early on that I might sorely miss in later fights.
Of course, there's a simple defense against the Sleep spell (and the similar Color Spray). Just pick up a few levels and you're immune. The SCS AI is smart enough not to use it unless there's someone vulnerable in the party ... mostly. The one exception I've seen is dual-class characters. In a party with Imoen as a level 6 thief dual-classed to a mage of level <5 and all other characters at or above level 5, enemy mages love to cast Sleep at Imoen. Even though she actually has 6 HD and is immune.
Well yes, of course that's the obvious protection, but it requires quite a lot of metagaming, knowledge of encounters and game time to avoid every encounter where someone might use Sleep or Colour Spray until a whole party of 6 people has reached level 5. You can run, for example, into Neera and the Thay wizards at level 1, same Zordral, and the ogre mages can appear as waylaid encounters along the coast, and that's only the first that come to mind. I can't get to level 5 without going anywhere.
So, my conclusion for the future at low levels is to always try to interrupt spellcasting as soon as possible. Which I've been doing anyway, but Sleep is so fast. So maybe an emergency solution might be a potion of invisibility or magic blocking, or Oil of Speed and running.