@Arvia: If you view death-related reloads as okay for minimal reload runs but roleplaying-related reloads as not okay, you can headcanon that your paladin committed suicide right after realizing she committed an evil deed. It's probably not the sort of thing one should do frequently in a minimal reload run, but for what it's worth, this was not you changing your mind about a decision you made; this was a scripting issue that undid your actual decision.
It's a bit of a gray area, so I'd move on as you are, and resolve to avoid a reload the next time you make an unfortunate but non-fatal mistake. Let Tenya live, let Arvia proceed, and on the off chance Arvia accidentally knifes an orphan somewhere along the way... well, let the orphan lie in peace, and continue without reloading.
Regardless of your decision, it's a mark of a true paladin that you take this seriously.
*tries to bow respectfully, then falls out of character and gives @semiticgod a clanky full-plate-mailed hug* ?
Thank you for cheering me up. Your explanation that I didn't really change my mind was helpful. I'm still torn, I probably should have accepted the outcome.
Hey I'm Catholic, not Samurai. Seppuku is not our style.
@Arvia , you're fine, and I hope you will keep reporting this run here. I agree that the encounter with Tenya is badly programmed, like the Shoal encounter, and it's the kind of encounter that would make me angry or upset, too. It makes you feel like the game is countermanding your roleplaying. As you may recall, I quit my recent attempt to minimal reload Pathfinder: Kingmaker under similar circumstances, when I did not agree with how the writing in the game handled a roleplaying decision, and in that case, it led to a total party wipe.
The only "rule" I encourage people to follow is to be honest that you reloaded and why. That's pretty much it.
I enjoyed the run report very much, and I especially enjoyed seeing all those tidbits about Boo from the NPC Project. I had forgotten all that. It's been a long time since I played with any mods.
@BelgarathMTH , thank you for not kicking me out ?.
I was so frustrated with that stupid situation that I didn't feel like playing anymore. 2 out of these 4 reloads were completely unnecessary (I count Daer'Ragh as unnecessary), so I asked myself if playing like that still made sense.
But of course it's not the number of reloads that counts, it's the way I like to play. And if it's badly scripted, I'm not forced to go along with it. I guess I will continue playing tonight after all.
Why don't you play with mods at all? Have you tried them all and there's nothing interesting out there any more?
Edit: I liked it more to write stories with my reports, but it takes up much more time that I can't use to continue playing. And unfortunately my free time, or least the one that's more than bits and pieces during the day, is very limited.
@Arvia, since your time is very limited, you might want to try kind of a bullet-point summary after each play session just to let us know how far you've progressed, and how many reloads it took. I did something like that earlier in this thread with dashes, that is,
-I completed this mission
-Then I went here and did this
-Then I went there and did that
Everybody in this forum knows the entire Baldur's Gate trilogy forwards and backwards. You can summarize and rest assured everybody here will know exactly what happened. And, if you ever feel like and/or have time to write story or post screen shots, you can still do that, too.
In some of my posts from earlier in this thread, if you care to review them, I even just took a screen shot of my journal and posted that, just to let anyone following me know how far I had gotten.
Roleplayed story reports are very fun to read, but I think everyone here understands that they are very time-consuming, and that they take time from busy people to write them that those people could be using to play the game, and to then share any insights and strategies they might have gotten from it.
I actually feel a bit vindicated by your frustration with that Tenya scenario, if you can believe that, from my failed attempt to do a minimal reload with Pathfinder: Kingmaker, where I expressed how frustrated and angry I was with this one particular encounter in that, and I got no sympathy or understanding, but rather criticism, recrimination, attacks, and "Yeah, but you could have..., and if you weren't such a stupid git, you would have..." types of responses. I've found that many game communities other than the BG community can be very, very toxic. I'm still waiting to find a minimal-reload community in any other game that is as friendly and encouraging as the one here. Even some people here revert to their usual toxic mindsets when games other than BG are being posted about, and I suspect they would be even more toxic and aggressive if it weren't for the very unusual forum rule here of "be awesome to each other" and the high level of moderation we have here.
In the end, you need to just do what is fun for you. You are not playing games to please anybody here or to get affirmation from any of us. You are taking a break from your hectic, stressful life, and this forum and this thread, and even all the people here, are only good for you as long as we are helping you meet those goals of relief from real life.
EDIT: Oh, the main reason I stopped playing with mods is because I have the games on Steam, and I usually prefer to play on Steam. The Steam version of Siege of Dragonspear requires you to learn an entirely new modding procedure involving downloading a mod called "Modmerge" before you can install any other mod without ruining all the text strings in the game. I'm old and tired, and I am simply not willing to learn an entire new procedure for modding. "Can't teach an old dog new tricks," and all that.
I have everything but Siege of Dragonspear on the Beamdog client, where the new modding procedure is not necessary, so if I ever want to play SoD again, I might just buy it on the BD client so I can mod without Modmerge. But, I *really* hate that black interface from SoD, and I don't know how to get rid of it once SoD has been attached to a copy of BG1:EE. There are interface mods out there, which I guess I could learn about and download, but, then it comes to download, download, download, troubleshoot, troubleshoot, troubleshoot. I have come to truly hate game modding as a time-consuming waster of my precious leisure time, so I have come in my old age to a preference to just not mod. If I can't enjoy it in its vanilla state, then I just don't enjoy it. Or at least, that's my attitude, most of the time nowadays.
You basically tell it which mods you want (using a fairly simple graphical interface) and the tool locates the links, downloads the files, builds the dependencies tree to avoid all conflicts, and structures the installation in the optimal order, even separating different components of mods into their right places. It extends and supercedes the old BWS tool.
I had already installed modmerge (which I hadn't found so painful), so I don't know this for sure, but I think it can also do the modmerge part! The entire process took 3 hours, but with seriously minimal intervention (the most intensive part was choosing the mods, and there are so many to choose from!).
There's also a final section in mod selection for GUI mods. I didn't choose any, but if you don't like the given one you can easily choose another.
It sure beats the old days of spending hours deciding the order yourself, finding all the downloads manually (in some cases with quite a bit of difficulty!), building up every installation individually, only to discover after your massive time investment that you made a mistake early on.
Sorry for departing from the thread's topic, I just thought you might be interested.
@BelgarathMTH , Reading about your "old age" made me smile, because last week I made a thoughtless comment about age to a colleague (not addressing her or anything, just in her presence), who is about your age, and it ended with her kicking my shin.
But I know what you mean. We're all so used to the WeiDU stuff, everything else is just complicated. I almost gave up trying to mod on Android, because it's complicated, especially if you don't have a PC installation of the same game. But I found a good tutorial here how to do it, and it worked with only a moderate amount of troubleshooting. The problems that occurred were my own fault, because I'm not good at the kind of very exact linear step-by-step thinking that is so essential when you're communicating with a machine ?. And I'm glad that I did it, because the NPC Project gives more life and roleplaying feeling to BG1.
But I'm also glad now that I decided against Steam when I got the PC version of BG2:EE. It was mostly because I didn't want to register in yet another place, and didn't want to have to be online to play. But if modding doesn't work there, it seems to have been a good decision, because I still want to try the Alternatives mod.
I know I'm not playing and posting here for anyone's approval (though I'd be a filthy liar to say that I don't care at all if I get some positive feedback), but that's exactly the point. I've noticed that I really like to write about it, even if very few people read it. I was getting used to it, and it helped me to feel better.
But that seems to be impossible right now, because the days are getting longer and my son doesn't sleep before 10pm any more. I hate daylight saving time.
At least for me, it's not fun to just play and then write "reached chapter 4. No reloads. Here's my journal with the resolved quests."
In that case, I might as well play without posting the results, but that would mean to get back into my secluded cave without much human interaction, made worse by the fact that I'm still sick and not working this week, have to catch up on tons of paperwork instead of resting when the kids are at school, and there's that dreaded appointment tomorrow. So it's back to "work, kids, sleep".
But that's just me falling into the self-pity trap. I'll get over it sooner or later, and I guess I'll find a way to continue when the grey clouds in my mind go away.
Edit: I don't know anything about SoD. I'll need more information about it before I finish BG1:EE, to see if it's worth trying. But I guess I'll try anything at least once (that is, anything lawful, of course)
Okay, now I'm a bit embarrassed because of my whining, but I suppose it's too late to delete it. I was in "right after disaster" mode, I guess. I apologize. Kids asleep at 9pm. Even they seem to get exhausted eventually. Thank God. Or the gods. Or whoever listened.
Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather write a little bit than nothing at all. I like this "place" (and its inhabitants) too much to stay away just because the world is not the way I want it to be.
After meeting Elminster at the city gate, we looked around for a bit, talked to some people, and one of them offered us 50 gp, because his master wanted our help. We didn't accept because of the money, but who knows how desperate that person was, if he already offers gold just to have someone listen to him?
We followed, and discovered that we had been incredibly naive again. Stumbled right into the thieves'guild.
Of course we refused to work for them as soon as we discovered who they really were.
Ajantis is right. At least they gave us a good reason to destroy them.
We used "Hold Person" on one of the thieves with a name, shot a Magic Missile on the mage to stop whatever he was planning to do (I think he managed to cast Haste, but it didn't help him much), killed him quickly and then the others. Dynaheir couldn't cast anything else, had to keep her kiting to stay alive, but the others took care of all the thieves.
We usually take loot from enemies, but this *is* a thieves' guild, so whatever they have here is most likely stolen. We decided to take only the dropped wand, robe, cloak of protection, things like that. We left the jewelry and the chests alone.
This first part of the city didn't hold many interesting things. We went to Sorcerous Sundries to get some more potions, and since all other buildings except for the inn seem to be locked, went to check the sewers.
Again, we seem to have a talent to find trouble.
This ogre mage seems to have done some disgustingly evil things, because we found several cocooned bodies. Probably somebody is looking for them. I felt bad leaving them like that. But there were 5 bodies, and we couldn't carry more than 2, they're too heavy. If we find who might be searching for them, or at least a place to leave them, like a temple or something, we will come back for the others. At least they won't be disturbed anymore by that evil ogre mage.
The sewers led us to other sewers and something called the undercellars, but Ajantis told us that's part of the underworld and not a place for a paladin, so we left the sewers and went to continue our search for the Seven Suns.
The city map is annoying. We walked around like lost sheep until we found the Iron Throne, but thought it best to leave it for the moment. A friend of Elminster' met us there and reminded us to go to the Flaming Fist. Right, if we ever find them! West of the Seven Suns, he had said.
We found the Seven Suns, after all, and went westwards. Searching for information, we entered an unmarked building.
We did *not* break in! There wasn't even a door, just an open entrance! What about "This is a private home, please leave" ?!
His Horror spell was cast before Dynaheir or Yeslick could do anything about it.
Arvia seemed to have landed a saving throw and had to fight them alone. The mage died quickly. The other two were tough fighters, difficult to hit. But it worked. And my companions were running around so fast in their panic that they didn't get hurt. (Edit: Imoen didn't panic, either, but she got stuck somehow)
Then we found the Flaming Fist headquarters, and talked to Scar. I seem to have picked the wrong dialogue choice, because when I told him that we hadn't found out anything yet at the Seven Suns, he gave me 2000 gp and said that he hoped his suspicions were wrong. But I hadn't even been to the Seven Suns yet. When I got there, a merchant warned me about shapeshifters, but when I went back to Scar, I had no option to tell him anymore. Well, nothing that I can do about it now. Scar took us to the Duke, and he tried to force us into a sneaky stealth mission that we didn't want to do.
I don't like his methods, his tone and his threats. I seriously considered refusing him. But Elminster had explicitly told me that Duke Elhan was a good person and could be trusted. So we accepted to help him. We will have to find a way to investigate without lying, though. I hope it's possible, otherwise we'll probably die in the Iron Throne building.
Then we met another acquaintance. We had to talk to him, because we had found a ring with his name on it, but he didn't seem interested in that and asked our help again. I don't trust him after that fight with the druids, but he said that some merchants had not seemed to be themselves, and that sounds suspicious, after hearing about shapeshifters at the Seven Suns. He wanted us to pretend that we're his childhood friends, and investigate his colleagues.
We were able to avoid lies and still find evidence.
We cast Horror before they could overwhelm us. That made them a lot easier to fight.
Now we're stuck. They're all dead, I've checked all the corners. But they both insist that we have to kill all of them and won't talk to us. We went downstairs, too. No more doppelgangers to be seen. Do they expect us to attack the non-hostile merchants downstairs, too? I'm not going to do that. I've searched every corner, there's nobody else. So, either this is a bug or I'm missing something.
Anyway, it's probably not essential to the story, I guess I'll just miss the XP for completing his quest, but I'd still like to know if I've overlooked something.
Ideas, @BelgarathMTH , or anyone?
Number of reloads: 4 (the ogre with the belt south of the FAI, Daer'Ragh at the Nashkel graveyard, a spider web north of the Thay Wizards, Tenya because of accidentally killing her)
I'd rather write a little bit than nothing at all. I like this "place" (and its inhabitants) too much to stay away just because the world is not the way I want it to be.
They're all dead, I've checked all the corners. But they both insist that we have to kill all of them and won't talk to us. We went downstairs, too. No more doppelgangers to be seen. Do they expect us to attack the non-hostile merchants downstairs, too? I'm not going to do that. I've searched every corner, there's nobody else. So, either this is a bug or I'm missing something.
There's a somewhat uncommon EE bug in which certain critters can get themselves trapped in walls, and that might be causing your problem. Sometimes an enemy will get really close to a wall and end up halfway stuck behind it. If you're in just the right position, you can see their circle, but then it will disappear, then reappear, then disappear, and so on. They vanish too fast for you to attack them and I'm not sure if either spells or even wands or scrolls can target them, so they might be impossible to kill at this point.
You might be able to re-set their positions by leaving the area and coming back after a while (maybe 8 or 24 hours) in the hopes that the last doppelganger will extricate itself and reappear. Even that might not work, at least on the first try. If it doesn't, the only remaining option would be to use the console to set the right variable, but I'm not sure what variable that might be.
@semiticgod , thank you, I guess then I'll try to go back later. It's possible that one of them got stuck somewhere when they panicked, I suppose. I just hope it won't kill the two guys who are still there. But I'm certainly not going to reload because of that
Edit: and using the console is too complicated for me. I'm playing on an Android tablet.
@Arvia , great report. It's really interesting to read about how you roleplay all the moral quandaries that the end game throws at a paladin. I'm afraid there's a good bit more of that coming up. I wonder if the paladin ethos really means paladins can never engage in espionage or subterfuge of any kind? It would make the paladin orders pretty weak as military forces if they can't gather intelligence because of their love of honesty. And what about a case where telling a lie or fooling a villain or monster can save a lot of lives, including that of the villain or monster, by avoiding violence? There's such a thing as the so-called "lawful stupid" alignment trap that we paladin players tend to fall into, so we have to be careful about that.
I think I know why there's still a doppelganger in that building, because I've hit this same problem before. To the left side of the room, on the bottom floor, there's a staircase leading down that is very easy to miss. It shows up just as a regular door icon, as though it were an alternate exit from the building (or maybe it lights up as a stairstep icon when you find it, I don't remember for sure.)
The staircase leads down to a cellar that has been converted into a jail. There's at least one more doppelganger down there, as well as one of the merchants who has been replaced, who needs rescuing.
EDIT: I think I'd like to warn you about something that is coming up soon, if you don't mind a spoiler that could save you a lot of reloads and frustration. It's a fight where the game will end suddenly, when no one in your party died, and can be very confusing. I'll put it in spoiler tags so you can decide for yourself if you'd rather just stumble into it on your own and see if you get lucky.
There is going to come a time in your investigation, and after some other things, where you need to go to a coronation ball and accuse somebody of something in front of a couple of grand dukes. The person you accuse will summon in a lot of monsters to help and attack the room. If both of two named dukes die, a man and a woman, the game stops and tells you that you lose and will have to reload. So, there can be a learning curve to being prepared for this fight, and most people need a lot of reloads to learn how to do it. A Haste spell on your party helps, and every area of effect debuff you can manage you should throw at the monsters - Slow, Confusion, anything to stop them attacking the dukes, which they will. Summoning your own monsters to distract the enemy monsters can help. You can try to move straight to the dukes and attempt to body block them. Unfortunately, they will both move towards the monsters and start trying to fight, and they get killed very, very easily, especially the woman.
@Arvia ,see the edit above. I chose to offer you a warning about something, but I put it in a spoiler tag in case you'd rather not read about it beforehand.
You will have time later when it would be natural to go elsewhere, eg. to Ulgoth's Beard and Durlag's Tower, other than the BG city, so that time will come.
@BelgarathMTH , I can't find another door or staircase. We're talking about the same building, aren't we? The Merchant League Estate?
I guess I'll have to give up... am I missing more than XP if I can't finish this quest? Is it important for the story?
Edit: The hidden staircase was in the Seven Suns. I went back there, because I didn't want to leave it unsolved just because I had accidentally chosen the wrong dialogue option. Fortunately, when I kept pestering the "merchants" with questions about what's going on, they turned and attacked. I found the cellar and freed Jhasso. I guess I'll just keep returning to the Merchant League Estate every day, to see if a stuck critter gets out of the wall, and if not, it remains unsolved.
@Arvia , sorry, it's been a long time since I've played BG1 this far, so I'm out of answers about your quest problem with the Merchant's League. I don't think it's anything crucial to the story if you leave it undone, as long as the main story line continues with Scar and/or Duke Eltan. If you get stuck, you might consider looking up a walkthrough.
The Baldur's Gate city part of the game starts to get kind of complicated, with a whole bunch of scripted story events that have to trigger just right. I'm pretty sure it's written so that there are several ways to go through to the end of it, and a lot of what can happen is optional. It's mostly a case of "all roads lead to Rome", or Baldur's Gate, as the case may be. You know you're past the phase of the game you're in now for good when they send you back out of the city to go somewhere else.
One not-too-spoilery friendly warning, if you meet a couple of dudes who tell you they've poisoned you, you have ten days to solve that quest before the game will end, so you kind of have to follow that quest chain immediately if you get stuck with it.
I've been making tons of mistakes. I haven't reloaded yet, but I wonder if I've messed up the game completely.
- went to the Seven Suns, as mentioned in my last post, resolved everything there
- ran some errands, solved some small quests, like killing a basilisk in a warehouse, finding some gauntles for a half-elf in the docks, saving a reckless boy from the Temple of Umberlee, saving Ghorak the Diseased, killing a so-called Sewer King and his minions, and all the other critters down in the sewers (have avoided the undercity until now)
Met Petrine. That was touching.
The door wasn't locked, so we entered, pretending to knock. The uncle said he had hoped she'd take the cat with her. We took that as permission and went upstairs to get the ring, and gave it back to the girl.
I hope it's really a kind of guardian angel... Ilmater protect you, little girl.
Found the Silvershield Estate. We still have that clasp that we found on the dead body with the raided caravan. The door was locked, but we had a reason to enter, so we opened it, again pretending to have knocked.
That was annoying and unnecessary. Okay, he had said "Lady" Silvershield, but how was I supposed to know that they'd turn hostile and attack if I talked to the man? We had to switch off the AI, run for the lady, give her the clasp, run out and take the hits in stride. They even followed us outside.
We escaped the map without killing anyone, and won't enter it again, I guess.
Then we went to the Iron Throne, lying as little as possible, having to kill some guards on the second floor, learning some things, also that they don't recruit, and went back to talk to the duke.
Without proceeding to the fifth floor, because he had said "investigate" and we had heard that Sarevok was upstairs and I thought that was for later.
So we told the duke what we had learned, and got transported to Candlekeep!
Can I still continue now, without having been to the fifth floor? Will I have the chance to come back to the city and do everything else after Candlekeep? Or have I messed it up completely?
What you told me about a coronation ceremony, @BelgarathMTH , was that supposed to happen before?
I'm a bit lost right now.
Levels and reloads as above, only difference that Imoen is level 8 now.
edit: sorry, I've read your post after finishing this report. I'll see if I find information somewhere... the game seems to hate me
@Arvia , If you're in Candlekeep now, everything is happening as it should. Continue your investigation in Candlekeep. Things are about to get very interesting for your ethics and your honor, and then there's a very dangerous but long, fun and interesting dungeon coming up.
The coronation thing happens after the Candlekeep phase, and you can put off returning to Baldur's Gate indefinitely. That will be the phase where a lot of people do Ulgoth's Beard and Durlag's Tower. The Tales of the Sword Coast content (Ulgoth's Beard and Durlag's Tower) are very, very dangerous, and I sometimes skip them rather than stressing out about how many reloads they cause. That content is definitely worth checking out, but I'd advise not worrying or being embarrassed if you start to need quite a few reloads to get through those modules. They represent a huge uptick in difficulty from the base game.
Once you finally go back to Baldur's Gate city, and you can choose when that is, that's when there will be a whirlwind of events leading to the end of the game, including the coronation and the final fight. Hint: Have lots of Hold Person and other non-lethal disabling spells prepared for the second time you go into the city, and stick to the sewers as much as possible. It is going to get very, very hard not to become a fallen paladin in the final phase of the game.
@BelgarathMTH , thank you for the warning. And I really appreciate the way you give me the important hints and information without saying too much.
I think that in case of falling, Arvia would probably reconsider her opinion on seppuku.
@BelgarathMTH , "very dangerous but long, fun and interesting dungeon" indeed... I'm still waiting for the fun part ?.
A short update until my latest reload:
We arrived in Candlekeep and talked to everyone, meeting old friends and new enemies. We were told that Rieltar was upstairs, so we searched for him. "Koveras" (I had really forgotten who he was) approached us and pretended to be Gorion's friend.
Boo saved the day again.
We went upstairs and met Rieltar and his associates. Yeslick almost exploded with rage, but I reminded him that, even while his rage was justified, revenge was not the lawful path, and the rules in Candlekeep were very strict.
Further upstairs we met and killed a doppelganger, then we were supposed to talk to someone on the last floor, but we couldn't even reach him, because a Watcher accused us of murdering Rieltar and his companions and wanted to arrest us. We knew that we hadn't done anything wrong, so we agreed to face a trial, of course.
Unfortunately, a trial was not what they had in mind.
I had screenshots of the whole dialogue, but I'm sure everybody knows what happens here.
We entered the dungeon, Boo warned us about traps, Imoen found them. Almost all of them.
Uuuuuuuh.
Found the other traps, killed the critters, didn't take any loot. I've seen the Tomes and got tempted for a second, but this is my home, I grew up here and lived here for 20 years, I'm not going to rob the graves.
Then we proceeded to the next part of the dungeon.
Met some doppelgangers and also some real friends.
And lots of skeletons. And no, "Turn Undead" and then having your companions run after them in a heavily trapped room is *not* a good idea. I hate lightning!
Sorry, Deder and Arkanis. And I hope we won't have to fight mages while we're carrying Dyanheir's body around with us... We took the risk and rested, before someone else could get killed.
We met Gorion and Elminster and almost trusted them (okay I knew they were not to be trusted, but they were convincing, so Arvia probablywould have listened eventually), but Boo saved us again. Thank you, Boo.
We killed them and all the other doppelgangers without too much trouble, and then the next part of the dungeon followed... (insert dark music)
Tried to drink potions and run away, but there was not much room to escape and Arvia got stunned and then it was over.
I don't know why I didn't think of fanning out, casting cleric spells, using the wand of magic missiles... it just happened ?. I also know I could have lied to Prat, but I still prefer to die honourably, and next time I will use a strategy other than "run ahead an hit him" ?.
So, that's it for the moment, I'll continue tonight, I think.
@BelgarathMTH , you know, you're allowed to say "This would have been an easy fight, if you had chosen to be careful" ?.
I didn't use stealth until now because of the deadly traps... I can never decide in dungeons which one is more dangerous, the traps or the other surprises. I usually use Hide in Shadows outdoors (which got us killed in the spider web) and Detect Traps indoors (which gets us killed when meeting mages and being unprepared in a dungeon).
But of course there *must* be evil mages ahead, now that Dynaheir is in coma. Sigh. Time to face the challenge...
Edited: What did you mean in an earlier post that things would get interesting in Candlekeep for my ethics and my honor? I don't remember running into a real conundrum. Have I missed something? Or were you referring to the fact that I'm falsely accused of murder and practically sentenced to death?
@Arvia , yes, that's pretty much what I meant. That, and you should have found a letter by now about the Bhaal heritage thing, and Ajantis has some to say about that in the NPC Project. I guess maybe it wasn't all that big a deal after all. You'll have to decide how to deal with the Flaming Fist when you go back to Baldur's Gate. If you allow yourself to be arrested, then there's going to be the worst moral problem in the game for a paladin that you'll have to face. You won't be able to continue the game without some kind of moral compromise.
That fight in the catacomb caves is never an "easy" fight. I get nervous every time I'm about to do it. And I'll never say to someone attempting a minimal reload "You could have just..." because I know how it makes me feel when that gets said to me. (A mix of negative emotions including some anger at the implied insult.)
There's a solution to your scouting problem, or at least there would be if Dynaheir wasn't currently out. Imoen can scout and detect traps at the same time while under an Invisibility spell or potion. Do you have any Invisibility potions on you by any chance?
There's actually something coming up that I'm not sure how you're going to get past with Dynaheir out, unless you have a certain potion with you. Let me know if you want a spoiler forewarning you, assuming you haven't already hit it. What I can't remember is if it's possible to go around the problem and get out of the caves without killing the problem.
@Arvia: You can have your thief scout and detect traps at the same time. Once you hide successfully, your thief will be invisible for 3 or 4 rounds, but Find Traps triggers every round. If you alternate between using stealth and Find Traps, your thief can disarm traps without breaking invisibility.
@semiticgod , that's helpful, thank you. I only saw the "Leaving Shadows" notice when I tried to let Imoen detect traps while hidden, so I assumed it wouldn't work. I never noticed that she stays hidden for some time even after that notice. It's still risky, but dying is worse ?.
I have only one Potion of Invisibility. I don't want to waste it.
@BelgarathMTH , I wouldn't have taken it as an insult, not from you, but you're right, I might get it wrong if I were frustrated with my reload. I was okay with that one, because it was my own mistake.
Right, the issue with Ajantis. His reaction was understandable from his perspective, but a bit annoying, thinking that he, not Charname, has the biggest problem with that discovery. I went through the dialogues with the "right" roleplaying choices, but decided to ignore the whole matter as best as I could. I really don't need relationship problems in games, too.
No need for spoilers, I have accidentally read somewhere what waits for me at the exit, and I have several of the necessary potions, because you said that I would need them in Durlag's Tower.
About the city, is there an acceptable way to avoid being arrested? I wouldn't want to do something that afterwards, because of the scripting, leaves me with worse choices. But I guess I'll have to find that out.
I haven't been able to continue playing (or to sign in and answer) until now, for various reasons, but I hope to find some time now during the weekend.
@Arvia , The only way to avoid being arrested is to avoid the Flaming Fist. If they happen to catch you, you can refuse to go along peacefully, which will make them go hostile, but you can't actually attack or kill them. I keep emergency Hold Person spells ready for that eventuality. I do my best to avoid them altogether by sticking to the sewers to get from place to place I have to get to collect more evidence.
Killing a single Flaming Fist officer is minus ten to reputation. Kill two, and your whole party will desert. It can be a total disaster.
If you manage to avoid the arrest scenario, let me know if you want me to tell you what would have happened, because there's a tie-in to Baldur's Gate 2, which assumes for that scenario that you did in fact get arrested in BG1, so that you knew this person who helped you escape.
@BelgarathMTH , I guess the clues "Flaming Fist, escape prison, link to BG2" were enough to tell me who you're talking about. Now I *really* want to avoid getting arrested, because if I need
Neb the child murderer? Am I right?
to get out of prison, I'd certainly have to quit this as a paladin run. I guess I'll ask more advice once I get there.
@Arvia , You are correct. I hope I didn't spoil it for you. But it sounds like you had better not allow yourself to get arrested in Baldur's Gate city. If worst comes to worst, I guess you could just start running. But ever since the first time I fell into that trap, I've never had to do it again, by doing what I said before. Stick to the sewers, use Invisibility 10' on the whole party if you have it, and have some disabling spells ready. Hold Person and Horror should both work, and possibly Slow, or Confusion if you have that. Command can buy you one round to run if it works. Emotion: Hopeless would be great if you could get it in BG1. Otiluke's Resilient Sphere should work on one officer if he fails his save. The few times I've been unable to avoid them, Hold Person worked to get me out of it.
You have to give them a dialogue option that says you refuse to come along, and I don't remember how it's worded. You may have to break character and threaten them. You must not offer to go along peacefully, or you're stuck. The game will cut straight to Flaming Fist headquarters if you do that, and there's no going back from there. Angelo will
Taunt you, and then instantly kill one random party member just to show you who's boss. He will tell you that you are to be executed without trial the next morning, and then the game teleports you into a cell with Neb. Neb tells you he knows how to get you all out of there, but he needs your help to open the way, and he will only tell you if you promise to let him go. Even if you try to go back on the "promise", he disappears at the entrance and cannot be attacked. If you refuse to promise to let him go, he basically says you can all just die there, then, and refuses to help you. Then you're just stuck there, in the cell, with no way out. As far as I know, you're there forever until you agree to help Neb. I guess the game ends there by default. Charname and party are executed the next morning by the Flaming Fist, presumably, although I think in-game you just sit in the cell forever unless you talk to Neb and agree to help him.
Angelo won't necessarily kill a party member in the process. If you reply "Couldn't you just let us go? Oh pleaseohpleaseohplease? We won't tell anyone. Honest. Pretty please? Just think about it", then he'll lock you up without killing anyone.
@BelgarathMTH ,that's the useful kind of spoilers that I'd always want to hear. I would hate to run into a situation like that, just because I might decide to surrender to the Flaming Fist, and then be stuck with that horrible decision. I mean, I know what our Vulcan friends say about "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few", but I think I'd consider it a game over and face execution...
@ semiticgod , that's NOT a dialogue option that I would ever consider ?.
So, back to my run. The fight *was* hard. Prat caused another reload before we could beat him. Arvia took a potion of absorption, Imoen fired her wand of magic missiles and Yeslick cast Holy Smite, and Hold Person on the archer with the annoying poison arrows. It was not enough.
That sneaky Bor had darts of stunning, and a confused Minsc kept hitting the stunned Arvia with acid arrows or something. Bad.
Fighting spellcasters and nasty missile fighters without a mage is difficult.
The next time, Arvia drank the potion of absorption and a potion of magic shielding that makes all saving throws a success. Again, Hold Person, Holy Smite, Wand of magic missiles.
It was still a close call, because Minsc and Yeslick both got confused and wounded each other, but Arvia's instant Cure Light Wounds saved Yeslick until the confusion wore off.
Then we continued and Imoen walked into a spider web. I sent Minsc with Spider's Bane, but he got poisoned and hurt so quickly that I had to send Arvia in. She was still under the effect of one potion, and I thought it was the one with the saving throws. But it was the other one, so, I got caught in the web and poisoned. Next reload.
The basilisks at the exit were discovered in time by Imoen and then killed by Arvia with a potion of mirrored eyes.
We left Candlekeep, went to the FAI to Raise Dynaheir, then to Ulgoth's Beard. Talked to all the people there, agreed to get Shandalar's Cloak. I won't comment the whole ice island dungeon, just that Imoen found and disarmed all the traps and discovered all the crazy mages early enough to be prepared and fight them properly. No reloads here.
Went back to Ulgoth's Beard, had Dynaheir drink a potion of mind focusing to scribe some scrolls. She got Stoneskin and Improved Invisibility, but unfortunately she failed Invisibility Radius 10' even with her Int boosted to 20. That's too bad, it will make the city of Baldur's Gate more difficult.
Then we went to the farm that was plagued by zombies and destroyed them, and *then* it took me several minutes and Google to find Durlag's Tower on the world map.
Now we're in front of the tower, but I think that's for another day.
Party level 7 (Imoen 8, Yeslick 6)
Number of reloads: 7 (the ogre south of the FAI, Daer'Ragh, a spider web north of the Thay Wizards, Tenya, Prat, Prat, a spider web in the Candlekeep catacombs)
I think it's not your definition of "minimal" reload anymore, @BelgarathMTH , but it's my first attempt, almost blind, and you said that I could keep posting no matter how high the counter gets, so that's what I'm going to do. If you changed your mind, it's your problem .
Comments
It's a bit of a gray area, so I'd move on as you are, and resolve to avoid a reload the next time you make an unfortunate but non-fatal mistake. Let Tenya live, let Arvia proceed, and on the off chance Arvia accidentally knifes an orphan somewhere along the way... well, let the orphan lie in peace, and continue without reloading.
Regardless of your decision, it's a mark of a true paladin that you take this seriously.
Thank you for cheering me up. Your explanation that I didn't really change my mind was helpful. I'm still torn, I probably should have accepted the outcome.
Hey I'm Catholic, not Samurai. Seppuku is not our style.
The only "rule" I encourage people to follow is to be honest that you reloaded and why. That's pretty much it.
I enjoyed the run report very much, and I especially enjoyed seeing all those tidbits about Boo from the NPC Project. I had forgotten all that. It's been a long time since I played with any mods.
I was so frustrated with that stupid situation that I didn't feel like playing anymore. 2 out of these 4 reloads were completely unnecessary (I count Daer'Ragh as unnecessary), so I asked myself if playing like that still made sense.
But of course it's not the number of reloads that counts, it's the way I like to play. And if it's badly scripted, I'm not forced to go along with it. I guess I will continue playing tonight after all.
Why don't you play with mods at all? Have you tried them all and there's nothing interesting out there any more?
Edit: I liked it more to write stories with my reports, but it takes up much more time that I can't use to continue playing. And unfortunately my free time, or least the one that's more than bits and pieces during the day, is very limited.
-I completed this mission
-Then I went here and did this
-Then I went there and did that
Everybody in this forum knows the entire Baldur's Gate trilogy forwards and backwards. You can summarize and rest assured everybody here will know exactly what happened. And, if you ever feel like and/or have time to write story or post screen shots, you can still do that, too.
In some of my posts from earlier in this thread, if you care to review them, I even just took a screen shot of my journal and posted that, just to let anyone following me know how far I had gotten.
Roleplayed story reports are very fun to read, but I think everyone here understands that they are very time-consuming, and that they take time from busy people to write them that those people could be using to play the game, and to then share any insights and strategies they might have gotten from it.
I actually feel a bit vindicated by your frustration with that Tenya scenario, if you can believe that, from my failed attempt to do a minimal reload with Pathfinder: Kingmaker, where I expressed how frustrated and angry I was with this one particular encounter in that, and I got no sympathy or understanding, but rather criticism, recrimination, attacks, and "Yeah, but you could have..., and if you weren't such a stupid git, you would have..." types of responses. I've found that many game communities other than the BG community can be very, very toxic. I'm still waiting to find a minimal-reload community in any other game that is as friendly and encouraging as the one here. Even some people here revert to their usual toxic mindsets when games other than BG are being posted about, and I suspect they would be even more toxic and aggressive if it weren't for the very unusual forum rule here of "be awesome to each other" and the high level of moderation we have here.
In the end, you need to just do what is fun for you. You are not playing games to please anybody here or to get affirmation from any of us. You are taking a break from your hectic, stressful life, and this forum and this thread, and even all the people here, are only good for you as long as we are helping you meet those goals of relief from real life.
EDIT: Oh, the main reason I stopped playing with mods is because I have the games on Steam, and I usually prefer to play on Steam. The Steam version of Siege of Dragonspear requires you to learn an entirely new modding procedure involving downloading a mod called "Modmerge" before you can install any other mod without ruining all the text strings in the game. I'm old and tired, and I am simply not willing to learn an entire new procedure for modding. "Can't teach an old dog new tricks," and all that.
I have everything but Siege of Dragonspear on the Beamdog client, where the new modding procedure is not necessary, so if I ever want to play SoD again, I might just buy it on the BD client so I can mod without Modmerge. But, I *really* hate that black interface from SoD, and I don't know how to get rid of it once SoD has been attached to a copy of BG1:EE. There are interface mods out there, which I guess I could learn about and download, but, then it comes to download, download, download, troubleshoot, troubleshoot, troubleshoot. I have come to truly hate game modding as a time-consuming waster of my precious leisure time, so I have come in my old age to a preference to just not mod. If I can't enjoy it in its vanilla state, then I just don't enjoy it. Or at least, that's my attitude, most of the time nowadays.
You basically tell it which mods you want (using a fairly simple graphical interface) and the tool locates the links, downloads the files, builds the dependencies tree to avoid all conflicts, and structures the installation in the optimal order, even separating different components of mods into their right places. It extends and supercedes the old BWS tool.
I had already installed modmerge (which I hadn't found so painful), so I don't know this for sure, but I think it can also do the modmerge part! The entire process took 3 hours, but with seriously minimal intervention (the most intensive part was choosing the mods, and there are so many to choose from!).
There's also a final section in mod selection for GUI mods. I didn't choose any, but if you don't like the given one you can easily choose another.
It sure beats the old days of spending hours deciding the order yourself, finding all the downloads manually (in some cases with quite a bit of difficulty!), building up every installation individually, only to discover after your massive time investment that you made a mistake early on.
Sorry for departing from the thread's topic, I just thought you might be interested.
But I know what you mean. We're all so used to the WeiDU stuff, everything else is just complicated. I almost gave up trying to mod on Android, because it's complicated, especially if you don't have a PC installation of the same game. But I found a good tutorial here how to do it, and it worked with only a moderate amount of troubleshooting. The problems that occurred were my own fault, because I'm not good at the kind of very exact linear step-by-step thinking that is so essential when you're communicating with a machine ?. And I'm glad that I did it, because the NPC Project gives more life and roleplaying feeling to BG1.
But I'm also glad now that I decided against Steam when I got the PC version of BG2:EE. It was mostly because I didn't want to register in yet another place, and didn't want to have to be online to play. But if modding doesn't work there, it seems to have been a good decision, because I still want to try the Alternatives mod.
I know I'm not playing and posting here for anyone's approval (though I'd be a filthy liar to say that I don't care at all if I get some positive feedback), but that's exactly the point. I've noticed that I really like to write about it, even if very few people read it. I was getting used to it, and it helped me to feel better.
But that seems to be impossible right now, because the days are getting longer and my son doesn't sleep before 10pm any more. I hate daylight saving time.
At least for me, it's not fun to just play and then write "reached chapter 4. No reloads. Here's my journal with the resolved quests."
In that case, I might as well play without posting the results, but that would mean to get back into my secluded cave without much human interaction, made worse by the fact that I'm still sick and not working this week, have to catch up on tons of paperwork instead of resting when the kids are at school, and there's that dreaded appointment tomorrow. So it's back to "work, kids, sleep".
But that's just me falling into the self-pity trap. I'll get over it sooner or later, and I guess I'll find a way to continue when the grey clouds in my mind go away.
Edit: I don't know anything about SoD. I'll need more information about it before I finish BG1:EE, to see if it's worth trying. But I guess I'll try anything at least once (that is, anything lawful, of course)
Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather write a little bit than nothing at all. I like this "place" (and its inhabitants) too much to stay away just because the world is not the way I want it to be.
After meeting Elminster at the city gate, we looked around for a bit, talked to some people, and one of them offered us 50 gp, because his master wanted our help. We didn't accept because of the money, but who knows how desperate that person was, if he already offers gold just to have someone listen to him?
We followed, and discovered that we had been incredibly naive again. Stumbled right into the thieves'guild.
Of course we refused to work for them as soon as we discovered who they really were.
We used "Hold Person" on one of the thieves with a name, shot a Magic Missile on the mage to stop whatever he was planning to do (I think he managed to cast Haste, but it didn't help him much), killed him quickly and then the others. Dynaheir couldn't cast anything else, had to keep her kiting to stay alive, but the others took care of all the thieves.
We usually take loot from enemies, but this *is* a thieves' guild, so whatever they have here is most likely stolen. We decided to take only the dropped wand, robe, cloak of protection, things like that. We left the jewelry and the chests alone.
This first part of the city didn't hold many interesting things. We went to Sorcerous Sundries to get some more potions, and since all other buildings except for the inn seem to be locked, went to check the sewers.
Again, we seem to have a talent to find trouble.
This ogre mage seems to have done some disgustingly evil things, because we found several cocooned bodies. Probably somebody is looking for them. I felt bad leaving them like that. But there were 5 bodies, and we couldn't carry more than 2, they're too heavy. If we find who might be searching for them, or at least a place to leave them, like a temple or something, we will come back for the others. At least they won't be disturbed anymore by that evil ogre mage.
The sewers led us to other sewers and something called the undercellars, but Ajantis told us that's part of the underworld and not a place for a paladin, so we left the sewers and went to continue our search for the Seven Suns.
The city map is annoying. We walked around like lost sheep until we found the Iron Throne, but thought it best to leave it for the moment. A friend of Elminster' met us there and reminded us to go to the Flaming Fist. Right, if we ever find them! West of the Seven Suns, he had said.
We found the Seven Suns, after all, and went westwards. Searching for information, we entered an unmarked building.
We did *not* break in! There wasn't even a door, just an open entrance! What about "This is a private home, please leave" ?!
His Horror spell was cast before Dynaheir or Yeslick could do anything about it.
Arvia seemed to have landed a saving throw and had to fight them alone. The mage died quickly. The other two were tough fighters, difficult to hit. But it worked. And my companions were running around so fast in their panic that they didn't get hurt. (Edit: Imoen didn't panic, either, but she got stuck somehow)
Then we found the Flaming Fist headquarters, and talked to Scar. I seem to have picked the wrong dialogue choice, because when I told him that we hadn't found out anything yet at the Seven Suns, he gave me 2000 gp and said that he hoped his suspicions were wrong. But I hadn't even been to the Seven Suns yet. When I got there, a merchant warned me about shapeshifters, but when I went back to Scar, I had no option to tell him anymore. Well, nothing that I can do about it now. Scar took us to the Duke, and he tried to force us into a sneaky stealth mission that we didn't want to do.
I don't like his methods, his tone and his threats. I seriously considered refusing him. But Elminster had explicitly told me that Duke Elhan was a good person and could be trusted. So we accepted to help him. We will have to find a way to investigate without lying, though. I hope it's possible, otherwise we'll probably die in the Iron Throne building.
Then we met another acquaintance. We had to talk to him, because we had found a ring with his name on it, but he didn't seem interested in that and asked our help again. I don't trust him after that fight with the druids, but he said that some merchants had not seemed to be themselves, and that sounds suspicious, after hearing about shapeshifters at the Seven Suns. He wanted us to pretend that we're his childhood friends, and investigate his colleagues.
We were able to avoid lies and still find evidence.
We cast Horror before they could overwhelm us. That made them a lot easier to fight.
Now we're stuck. They're all dead, I've checked all the corners. But they both insist that we have to kill all of them and won't talk to us. We went downstairs, too. No more doppelgangers to be seen. Do they expect us to attack the non-hostile merchants downstairs, too? I'm not going to do that. I've searched every corner, there's nobody else. So, either this is a bug or I'm missing something.
Anyway, it's probably not essential to the story, I guess I'll just miss the XP for completing his quest, but I'd still like to know if I've overlooked something.
Ideas, @BelgarathMTH , or anyone?
level 5 Yeslick
level 6 Arvia, Ajantis and Minsc
level 7 Imoe, Dynaheir
Number of reloads: 4 (the ogre with the belt south of the FAI, Daer'Ragh at the Nashkel graveyard, a spider web north of the Thay Wizards, Tenya because of accidentally killing her)
You might be able to re-set their positions by leaving the area and coming back after a while (maybe 8 or 24 hours) in the hopes that the last doppelganger will extricate itself and reappear. Even that might not work, at least on the first try. If it doesn't, the only remaining option would be to use the console to set the right variable, but I'm not sure what variable that might be.
Edit: and using the console is too complicated for me. I'm playing on an Android tablet.
I think I know why there's still a doppelganger in that building, because I've hit this same problem before. To the left side of the room, on the bottom floor, there's a staircase leading down that is very easy to miss. It shows up just as a regular door icon, as though it were an alternate exit from the building (or maybe it lights up as a stairstep icon when you find it, I don't remember for sure.)
The staircase leads down to a cellar that has been converted into a jail. There's at least one more doppelganger down there, as well as one of the merchants who has been replaced, who needs rescuing.
EDIT: I think I'd like to warn you about something that is coming up soon, if you don't mind a spoiler that could save you a lot of reloads and frustration. It's a fight where the game will end suddenly, when no one in your party died, and can be very confusing. I'll put it in spoiler tags so you can decide for yourself if you'd rather just stumble into it on your own and see if you get lucky.
I plan to finish this game, so before Arvia does something lawful stupid, I'll have Yeslick step on her toes.
Will I have a reason to go to Ulgoth's Beard and Durlag's Tower later in the game, or should I do that before I confront the Iron Throne?
I guess I'll have to give up... am I missing more than XP if I can't finish this quest? Is it important for the story?
Edit: The hidden staircase was in the Seven Suns. I went back there, because I didn't want to leave it unsolved just because I had accidentally chosen the wrong dialogue option. Fortunately, when I kept pestering the "merchants" with questions about what's going on, they turned and attacked. I found the cellar and freed Jhasso. I guess I'll just keep returning to the Merchant League Estate every day, to see if a stuck critter gets out of the wall, and if not, it remains unsolved.
The Baldur's Gate city part of the game starts to get kind of complicated, with a whole bunch of scripted story events that have to trigger just right. I'm pretty sure it's written so that there are several ways to go through to the end of it, and a lot of what can happen is optional. It's mostly a case of "all roads lead to Rome", or Baldur's Gate, as the case may be. You know you're past the phase of the game you're in now for good when they send you back out of the city to go somewhere else.
One not-too-spoilery friendly warning, if you meet a couple of dudes who tell you they've poisoned you, you have ten days to solve that quest before the game will end, so you kind of have to follow that quest chain immediately if you get stuck with it.
- went to the Seven Suns, as mentioned in my last post, resolved everything there
- ran some errands, solved some small quests, like killing a basilisk in a warehouse, finding some gauntles for a half-elf in the docks, saving a reckless boy from the Temple of Umberlee, saving Ghorak the Diseased, killing a so-called Sewer King and his minions, and all the other critters down in the sewers (have avoided the undercity until now)
Met Petrine. That was touching.
The door wasn't locked, so we entered, pretending to knock. The uncle said he had hoped she'd take the cat with her. We took that as permission and went upstairs to get the ring, and gave it back to the girl.
Found the Silvershield Estate. We still have that clasp that we found on the dead body with the raided caravan. The door was locked, but we had a reason to enter, so we opened it, again pretending to have knocked.
We escaped the map without killing anyone, and won't enter it again, I guess.
Then we went to the Iron Throne, lying as little as possible, having to kill some guards on the second floor, learning some things, also that they don't recruit, and went back to talk to the duke.
Without proceeding to the fifth floor, because he had said "investigate" and we had heard that Sarevok was upstairs and I thought that was for later.
So we told the duke what we had learned, and got transported to Candlekeep!
Can I still continue now, without having been to the fifth floor? Will I have the chance to come back to the city and do everything else after Candlekeep? Or have I messed it up completely?
What you told me about a coronation ceremony, @BelgarathMTH , was that supposed to happen before?
I'm a bit lost right now.
Levels and reloads as above, only difference that Imoen is level 8 now.
edit: sorry, I've read your post after finishing this report. I'll see if I find information somewhere... the game seems to hate me
The coronation thing happens after the Candlekeep phase, and you can put off returning to Baldur's Gate indefinitely. That will be the phase where a lot of people do Ulgoth's Beard and Durlag's Tower. The Tales of the Sword Coast content (Ulgoth's Beard and Durlag's Tower) are very, very dangerous, and I sometimes skip them rather than stressing out about how many reloads they cause. That content is definitely worth checking out, but I'd advise not worrying or being embarrassed if you start to need quite a few reloads to get through those modules. They represent a huge uptick in difficulty from the base game.
Once you finally go back to Baldur's Gate city, and you can choose when that is, that's when there will be a whirlwind of events leading to the end of the game, including the coronation and the final fight. Hint: Have lots of Hold Person and other non-lethal disabling spells prepared for the second time you go into the city, and stick to the sewers as much as possible. It is going to get very, very hard not to become a fallen paladin in the final phase of the game.
I think that in case of falling, Arvia would probably reconsider her opinion on seppuku.
A short update until my latest reload:
We arrived in Candlekeep and talked to everyone, meeting old friends and new enemies. We were told that Rieltar was upstairs, so we searched for him. "Koveras" (I had really forgotten who he was) approached us and pretended to be Gorion's friend.
Boo saved the day again.
We went upstairs and met Rieltar and his associates. Yeslick almost exploded with rage, but I reminded him that, even while his rage was justified, revenge was not the lawful path, and the rules in Candlekeep were very strict.
Further upstairs we met and killed a doppelganger, then we were supposed to talk to someone on the last floor, but we couldn't even reach him, because a Watcher accused us of murdering Rieltar and his companions and wanted to arrest us. We knew that we hadn't done anything wrong, so we agreed to face a trial, of course.
Unfortunately, a trial was not what they had in mind.
I had screenshots of the whole dialogue, but I'm sure everybody knows what happens here.
We entered the dungeon, Boo warned us about traps, Imoen found them. Almost all of them.
Found the other traps, killed the critters, didn't take any loot. I've seen the Tomes and got tempted for a second, but this is my home, I grew up here and lived here for 20 years, I'm not going to rob the graves.
Then we proceeded to the next part of the dungeon.
Met some doppelgangers and also some real friends.
And lots of skeletons. And no, "Turn Undead" and then having your companions run after them in a heavily trapped room is *not* a good idea. I hate lightning!
Sorry, Deder and Arkanis. And I hope we won't have to fight mages while we're carrying Dyanheir's body around with us... We took the risk and rested, before someone else could get killed.
We met Gorion and Elminster and almost trusted them (okay I knew they were not to be trusted, but they were convincing, so Arvia probablywould have listened eventually), but Boo saved us again. Thank you, Boo.
We killed them and all the other doppelgangers without too much trouble, and then the next part of the dungeon followed... (insert dark music)
Tried to drink potions and run away, but there was not much room to escape and Arvia got stunned and then it was over.
I don't know why I didn't think of fanning out, casting cleric spells, using the wand of magic missiles... it just happened ?. I also know I could have lied to Prat, but I still prefer to die honourably, and next time I will use a strategy other than "run ahead an hit him" ?.
So, that's it for the moment, I'll continue tonight, I think.
Level 8 (Imoen)
Level 7 (Arvia, Minsc, Dynaheir)
Level 6 (Ajantis, Yeslick)
Number of reloads: 5 (the ogre south of the FAI, Daer'Ragh, a spider web north of the Thay Wizards, Tenya because she died by accident, Prat)
The rest of that cave network is still very dangerous. I suggest careful stealthing and scouting.
I didn't use stealth until now because of the deadly traps... I can never decide in dungeons which one is more dangerous, the traps or the other surprises. I usually use Hide in Shadows outdoors (which got us killed in the spider web) and Detect Traps indoors (which gets us killed when meeting mages and being unprepared in a dungeon).
But of course there *must* be evil mages ahead, now that Dynaheir is in coma. Sigh. Time to face the challenge...
Edited: What did you mean in an earlier post that things would get interesting in Candlekeep for my ethics and my honor? I don't remember running into a real conundrum. Have I missed something? Or were you referring to the fact that I'm falsely accused of murder and practically sentenced to death?
That fight in the catacomb caves is never an "easy" fight. I get nervous every time I'm about to do it. And I'll never say to someone attempting a minimal reload "You could have just..." because I know how it makes me feel when that gets said to me. (A mix of negative emotions including some anger at the implied insult.)
There's a solution to your scouting problem, or at least there would be if Dynaheir wasn't currently out. Imoen can scout and detect traps at the same time while under an Invisibility spell or potion. Do you have any Invisibility potions on you by any chance?
There's actually something coming up that I'm not sure how you're going to get past with Dynaheir out, unless you have a certain potion with you. Let me know if you want a spoiler forewarning you, assuming you haven't already hit it. What I can't remember is if it's possible to go around the problem and get out of the caves without killing the problem.
I have only one Potion of Invisibility. I don't want to waste it.
@BelgarathMTH , I wouldn't have taken it as an insult, not from you, but you're right, I might get it wrong if I were frustrated with my reload. I was okay with that one, because it was my own mistake.
Right, the issue with Ajantis. His reaction was understandable from his perspective, but a bit annoying, thinking that he, not Charname, has the biggest problem with that discovery. I went through the dialogues with the "right" roleplaying choices, but decided to ignore the whole matter as best as I could. I really don't need relationship problems in games, too.
No need for spoilers, I have accidentally read somewhere what waits for me at the exit, and I have several of the necessary potions, because you said that I would need them in Durlag's Tower.
About the city, is there an acceptable way to avoid being arrested? I wouldn't want to do something that afterwards, because of the scripting, leaves me with worse choices. But I guess I'll have to find that out.
I haven't been able to continue playing (or to sign in and answer) until now, for various reasons, but I hope to find some time now during the weekend.
Killing a single Flaming Fist officer is minus ten to reputation. Kill two, and your whole party will desert. It can be a total disaster.
If you manage to avoid the arrest scenario, let me know if you want me to tell you what would have happened, because there's a tie-in to Baldur's Gate 2, which assumes for that scenario that you did in fact get arrested in BG1, so that you knew this person who helped you escape.
You have to give them a dialogue option that says you refuse to come along, and I don't remember how it's worded. You may have to break character and threaten them. You must not offer to go along peacefully, or you're stuck. The game will cut straight to Flaming Fist headquarters if you do that, and there's no going back from there. Angelo will
@BelgarathMTH ,that's the useful kind of spoilers that I'd always want to hear. I would hate to run into a situation like that, just because I might decide to surrender to the Flaming Fist, and then be stuck with that horrible decision. I mean, I know what our Vulcan friends say about "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few", but I think I'd consider it a game over and face execution...
@ semiticgod , that's NOT a dialogue option that I would ever consider ?.
So, back to my run. The fight *was* hard. Prat caused another reload before we could beat him. Arvia took a potion of absorption, Imoen fired her wand of magic missiles and Yeslick cast Holy Smite, and Hold Person on the archer with the annoying poison arrows. It was not enough.
Fighting spellcasters and nasty missile fighters without a mage is difficult.
The next time, Arvia drank the potion of absorption and a potion of magic shielding that makes all saving throws a success. Again, Hold Person, Holy Smite, Wand of magic missiles.
It was still a close call, because Minsc and Yeslick both got confused and wounded each other, but Arvia's instant Cure Light Wounds saved Yeslick until the confusion wore off.
Then we continued and Imoen walked into a spider web. I sent Minsc with Spider's Bane, but he got poisoned and hurt so quickly that I had to send Arvia in. She was still under the effect of one potion, and I thought it was the one with the saving throws. But it was the other one, so, I got caught in the web and poisoned. Next reload.
The basilisks at the exit were discovered in time by Imoen and then killed by Arvia with a potion of mirrored eyes.
We left Candlekeep, went to the FAI to Raise Dynaheir, then to Ulgoth's Beard. Talked to all the people there, agreed to get Shandalar's Cloak. I won't comment the whole ice island dungeon, just that Imoen found and disarmed all the traps and discovered all the crazy mages early enough to be prepared and fight them properly. No reloads here.
Went back to Ulgoth's Beard, had Dynaheir drink a potion of mind focusing to scribe some scrolls. She got Stoneskin and Improved Invisibility, but unfortunately she failed Invisibility Radius 10' even with her Int boosted to 20. That's too bad, it will make the city of Baldur's Gate more difficult.
Then we went to the farm that was plagued by zombies and destroyed them, and *then* it took me several minutes and Google to find Durlag's Tower on the world map.
Now we're in front of the tower, but I think that's for another day.
Party level 7 (Imoen 8, Yeslick 6)
Number of reloads: 7 (the ogre south of the FAI, Daer'Ragh, a spider web north of the Thay Wizards, Tenya, Prat, Prat, a spider web in the Candlekeep catacombs)
I think it's not your definition of "minimal" reload anymore, @BelgarathMTH , but it's my first attempt, almost blind, and you said that I could keep posting no matter how high the counter gets, so that's what I'm going to do. If you changed your mind, it's your problem