It's no big deal anyhow, you can just edit it back if you prefer unlimited charges. At least this way the standard version of the item is "as intended".
Because it's perfectly clear that the cloak is an artifact from Netheril, that Algernon acquired during his younger..less rotund days as a assholish adventurer (rather then a fat, assholish merchant), before realizing the cloaks powers to mind-rape people at will and said F adventuring, and mind-raped dozens of people into signing him their fortunes then running them headlong into certain death!? Really, you're doing the world a favor taking the cloak into your possession, even if you mistake it for a nymph cloak and think it only works once a day...until you forget and attempt to use it again and realize it's FAR more awesome then you thought..
One might argue that one doesn't give unlimited spellcasting to every character because making arbitrary changes to something that's been in place since the creation of the game fourteen years ago is generally asking for trouble.
Oh, I understand the motivation behind it, but forgive me if I express the fervent hope that nobody extends the same logic to Cleric/Rangers, a Greatsword that dispels every hit(!), multiclassing, dual classing, High Level Abilities, Tomes and Manuals, the Flail of Ages, Crom Faeyr, the Ring of Wizardry, Detect Illusion, Time Stop, Wish, the Cloak of Mirroring or Mages in general.
I can see how this cloak could have been op but at the same time I found that I didn't use it on critters very much and more on commoners. When something is op I tend not to use it as much because it is less fun that way. I also used it to goof off a bit and have monster duels and such (basilisk vs. basilisk is fun).
As I recall however it wasn't actually that successful on more powerful monsters due to the save factor. Honestly, most of the things out there that wouldn't resist it practically every time (and some of the things that did) weren't that good anyway (especially compared to my party) and, on top of that, I would want to kill them eventually (or, why waste time, right away) anyway for the exp. Also you cant take them with you anyway so that cuts it's usefulness again. I'm not sure the cloak was really as op as it may seem at first glance anyway. Nerfing it was a mistake.
By the way, who here HAS abused this thing to make an army of monsters that couldn't leave the area they came from? I SERIOUSLY doubt that a whole ton of people did that. Maybe we should have a poll to determine such things.
Come to think of it... Wouldn't it be a cool and unique challenge to solo and beat the game relying almost entirely on the cloak's power? I think if you could do that you are a seriously cool and good player rather than a simpleton who can't do anything with even a mild degree of difficulty! OK! I challenge people to do just that. Beat the game with Algernon's cloak!
Forestalled ya, I did a solo naked Algernon's Cloak run YEARS ago. Some of the TotSC stuff can't be beaten like that, but the core game can.
And yes..I've also charmed every single creature in the game that can possibly be charmed in an attempt to use up all 65535 charges....barely used 13000 charges by the end.
It's easy enough to fix (if you have the original or BG2), just extract the cloak's item file from BG1, and put it in the override folder for EE...viola.
Where would you find said file?
Edit: Found this thing called winbiff which helped me find it. nvm
I don't see why people get upset at nerfing... Its already happened and it's highly unlikely that it'll change. Just play the game and enjoy it.
Because its a slippery slope kind of thing. Today its the cloak, tomorrow its removing +3 weapons from the game, then removing Druid level 5 spellcasting, and so on. Where does it end?
I think its really assholish of them to change how items work from the original. I don't want them to balance shit like its a blizzard game. I want them to know their place and fix bugs and improve functionality.
It surely won't stop with the cloak either. I just don't think they should have the right to nerf anything.
Whenever a nerf happens there will always be people that will be upset.
Personally, I never used the item to charm people, but I don't think that arguments like "Just don't use it if you think its overpowered" is a valid argument to just ignore all overpowered items.
Why not? Why is that not a valid argument? I'd love to hear why "a little effing self-restraint" is an impossible concept for people who don't think the cloak should have as many charges as it does to understand.
I'm sorry, but I find this sort of thing absolutely infuriating. I'm not upset about the nerf (I don't know that I've ever stolen the cloak, and I'm sure I've never used its special charm ability), but I am more than upset about the rationale behind it. I am incredibly angry when I see this particular line of logic lead to unnecessary changes in the game.
If an item can be used multiple times per day, and you think it should only be used once per day, USE IT ONCE PER DAY. Period. Problem solved. All you have to do to get the item to behave the way you want it to is NOTHING. It requires 0 changes and 0 steps to get the cloak to behave the way you want it to. By asking the devs to change it, you're not changing YOUR game; you're changing MY game. Thanks. I liked my game the way it was. Thanks for enforcing a change on my game that doesn't affect your game in the slightest.
But the line that follows this line of logic is even more brilliant. If I don't like the change, I shouldn't complain about it... Because if I don't like it, all I have to do is change it back!
All I have to do is pull the file out of another game, which you all presume everybody still owns and has installed, find the stickied thread that explains how to modify your game, and follow those instructions to figure out where that override file goes. And voila! Just like that, I can have my game back the way I want it.
Or, for changes that aren't fixed by pulling files from a different game and inserting them into this game, the solution usually involves downloading a third-party software app, and using that third-party software app to hack my game file. This is apparently a better solution to the "problem" than you choosing to simply not exploit something that you find overpowered.
Here's the distinction between an overpowered item that needs to be fixed, and an overpowered item that DOESN'T need to be fixed: "Is the suggested change something that could be accomplished through simple restraint, while still allowing the user to use the item as intended?"
- The cloak still gives +2 charisma, and is still has charges of charm (dominate?). If somebody thinks it should be a 1/day cloak, they have the power (because we're not a bunch of 4 year olds) to use it once per day, and stop. Leaving the item as is does not affect their ability to use the item.
- If, however, the cloak had a 50% chance of automatically charming any enemy in the area each round, and that was deemed overpowered (it most certainly would be), I'd be in favor of nerfing it, because the only options available to the player are "Use it in its overpowered state" or "Don't use it at all." That's a bad choice, and it really does punish players who don't want to exploit the overpowered item. They don't have any way to self-impose a restriction upon themselves, and an item that should be unique and fun is either game-breaking or useless (because you refuse to use it).
And that notion of game-breaking brings me to my conclusion. The cloak, as it used to be, was at least game-alteringly overpowered, if not game-breakingly overpowered. The power of unlimited charms, available at level 1, is obvious and undeniable. And that's EXACTLY why it didn't need to be changed. The cloak is a novelty. You find it, you go on a spree, charming anything and everything. Maybe you do like @ZanathKariashi and do a cloak-only run of the game, just to see what happens...
...And then you move on. Because like @Tresset said: in the end, blowing through the game with unlimited charges from the cloak isn't fun, and people aren't going to abuse the cloak if abusing the cloak isn't fun. There's a reason why people don't blow through the game over and over again using Ctrl-Y, and that same principle applies to the cloak. Its power is obvious, and if you have a brain, self-restraint is the logical result.
Only now I can't try that naked cloak run that Zanath did, because other members of the community decided that self-restrait isn't "a valid argument" when it comes to keeping a game fun.
Whenever a nerf happens there will always be people that will be upset.
Personally, I never used the item to charm people, but I don't think that arguments like "Just don't use it if you think its overpowered" is a valid argument to just ignore all overpowered items.
Why not? Why is that not a valid argument? I'd love to hear why "a little effing self-restraint" is an impossible concept for people who don't think the cloak should have as many charges as it does to understand.
I'm sorry, but I find this sort of thing absolutely infuriating. I'm not upset about the nerf (I don't know that I've ever stolen the cloak, and I'm sure I've never used its special charm ability), but I am more than upset about the rationale behind it. I am incredibly angry when I see this particular line of logic lead to unnecessary changes in the game.
If an item can be used multiple times per day, and you think it should only be used once per day, USE IT ONCE PER DAY. Period. Problem solved. All you have to do to get the item to behave the way you want it to is NOTHING. It requires 0 changes and 0 steps to get the cloak to behave the way you want it to. By asking the devs to change it, you're not changing YOUR game; you're changing MY game. Thanks. I liked my game the way it was. Thanks for enforcing a change on my game that doesn't affect your game in the slightest.
But the line that follows this line of logic is even more brilliant. If I don't like the change, I shouldn't complain about it... Because if I don't like it, all I have to do is change it back!
All I have to do is pull the file out of another game, which you all presume everybody still owns and has installed, find the stickied thread that explains how to modify your game, and follow those instructions to figure out where that override file goes. And voila! Just like that, I can have my game back the way I want it.
Or, for changes that aren't fixed by pulling files from a different game and inserting them into this game, the solution usually involves downloading a third-party software app, and using that third-party software app to hack my game file. This is apparently a better solution to the "problem" than you choosing to simply not exploit something that you find overpowered.
Here's the distinction between an overpowered item that needs to be fixed, and an overpowered item that DOESN'T need to be fixed: "Is the suggested change something that could be accomplished through simple restraint, while still allowing the user to use the item as intended?"
- The cloak still gives +2 charisma, and is still has charges of charm (dominate?). If somebody thinks it should be a 1/day cloak, they have the power (because we're not a bunch of 4 year olds) to use it once per day, and stop. Leaving the item as is does not affect their ability to use the item.
- If, however, the cloak had a 50% chance of automatically charming any enemy in the area each round, and that was deemed overpowered (it most certainly would be), I'd be in favor of nerfing it, because the only options available to the player are "Use it in its overpowered state" or "Don't use it at all." That's a bad choice, and it really does punish players who don't want to exploit the overpowered item. They don't have any way to self-impose a restriction upon themselves, and an item that should be unique and fun is either game-breaking or useless (because you refuse to use it).
And that notion of game-breaking brings me to my conclusion. The cloak, as it used to be, was at least game-alteringly overpowered, if not game-breakingly overpowered. The power of unlimited charms, available at level 1, is obvious and undeniable. And that's EXACTLY why it didn't need to be changed. The cloak is a novelty. You find it, you go on a spree, charming anything and everything. Maybe you do like @ZanathKariashi and do a cloak-only run of the game, just to see what happens...
...And then you move on. Because like @Tresset said: in the end, blowing through the game with unlimited charges from the cloak isn't fun, and people aren't going to abuse the cloak if abusing the cloak isn't fun. There's a reason why people don't blow through the game over and over again using Ctrl-Y, and that same principle applies to the cloak. Its power is obvious, and if you have a brain, self-restraint is the logical result.
Only now I can't try that naked cloak run that Zanath did, because other members of the community decided that self-restrait isn't "a valid argument" when it comes to keeping a game fun.
So why not just make every magic item, wands and class ablilities have infinite uses? I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem because people who don't want the game be too easy would just use them less. This would benifit both groups of players.
Its like screwing up a piece of gaming history imo. Fixing bugs its always welcome. Imposing their opinion of what is balanced is like deciding the Mona Lisa needs lipstick, and adding it. It just really pisses me off for some reason.
Because its a slippery slope kind of thing. Today its the cloak, tomorrow its removing +3 weapons from the game, then removing Druid level 5 spellcasting, and so on. Where does it end?
Except +3 weapons and the druid's class mechanics are an integral part of the game, especially in Baldur's Gate 2 (not to mention D&D in general).
Keep in mind, they didn't outright remove the cloak, they simply nerfed it.
Because its a slippery slope kind of thing. Today its the cloak, tomorrow its removing +3 weapons from the game, then removing Druid level 5 spellcasting, and so on. Where does it end?
Except +3 weapons and the druid's class mechanics are an integral part of the game, especially in Baldur's Gate 2. Keep in mind, they didn't outright remove the cloak, they simply nerfed it.
Yes but they could say they are too powerful for BG1 and adjust the druids spell table, or alter the Martial Staff and The Worlds Edge and so on in favor of "Balance".
Um..infinite domination spell that you can get at lvl1 for free.
And thats a problem because??? Are you saying the original was put in this way by mistake? And if so that the original dev team just "forgot" to fix it in any of the numerous patches?
Actually, yes. The original had a buggy per/day implementation which allowed this item to underflow from 0 to 65535. Some people tend to report non-bugs as bugs because they don't like something. And some tend to use beneficial bugs. Feel free to restore the original version in your game. But to me, something that turns 65535 from 0 after one use, is simply a bug.
Yes but they could say they are too powerful for BG1 and adjust the druids spell table, or alter the Martial Staff and The Worlds Edge and so on in favor of "Balance".
Except then the game becomes inconsistent for TOTSC, BG2, TOB, and possibly BG3.
I acknowledge your points, but what I say is valid. The dev's obviously nerfed the cloak (a very small part of the game in comparison to all +3 weapons and a druid's 5th level spells) for a reason.
Comments
Why don't we just give unlimited spellcasting to every character? You can use the same logic to implement this.
One might argue that one doesn't give unlimited spellcasting to every character because making arbitrary changes to something that's been in place since the creation of the game fourteen years ago is generally asking for trouble.
Sort of a parallel there.
But this really isn't an arbitrary change. The item was considered to be too powerful that's why it was changed.
As I recall however it wasn't actually that successful on more powerful monsters due to the save factor. Honestly, most of the things out there that wouldn't resist it practically every time (and some of the things that did) weren't that good anyway (especially compared to my party) and, on top of that, I would want to kill them eventually (or, why waste time, right away) anyway for the exp. Also you cant take them with you anyway so that cuts it's usefulness again. I'm not sure the cloak was really as op as it may seem at first glance anyway. Nerfing it was a mistake.
By the way, who here HAS abused this thing to make an army of monsters that couldn't leave the area they came from? I SERIOUSLY doubt that a whole ton of people did that. Maybe we should have a poll to determine such things.
Come to think of it... Wouldn't it be a cool and unique challenge to solo and beat the game relying almost entirely on the cloak's power? I think if you could do that you are a seriously cool and good player rather than a simpleton who can't do anything with even a mild degree of difficulty! OK! I challenge people to do just that. Beat the game with Algernon's cloak!
And yes..I've also charmed every single creature in the game that can possibly be charmed in an attempt to use up all 65535 charges....barely used 13000 charges by the end.
Edit:
Found this thing called winbiff which helped me find it. nvm
It surely won't stop with the cloak either. I just don't think they should have the right to nerf anything.
I'm sorry, but I find this sort of thing absolutely infuriating. I'm not upset about the nerf (I don't know that I've ever stolen the cloak, and I'm sure I've never used its special charm ability), but I am more than upset about the rationale behind it. I am incredibly angry when I see this particular line of logic lead to unnecessary changes in the game.
If an item can be used multiple times per day, and you think it should only be used once per day, USE IT ONCE PER DAY. Period. Problem solved. All you have to do to get the item to behave the way you want it to is NOTHING. It requires 0 changes and 0 steps to get the cloak to behave the way you want it to. By asking the devs to change it, you're not changing YOUR game; you're changing MY game. Thanks. I liked my game the way it was. Thanks for enforcing a change on my game that doesn't affect your game in the slightest.
But the line that follows this line of logic is even more brilliant. If I don't like the change, I shouldn't complain about it... Because if I don't like it, all I have to do is change it back!
All I have to do is pull the file out of another game, which you all presume everybody still owns and has installed, find the stickied thread that explains how to modify your game, and follow those instructions to figure out where that override file goes. And voila! Just like that, I can have my game back the way I want it.
Or, for changes that aren't fixed by pulling files from a different game and inserting them into this game, the solution usually involves downloading a third-party software app, and using that third-party software app to hack my game file. This is apparently a better solution to the "problem" than you choosing to simply not exploit something that you find overpowered.
Here's the distinction between an overpowered item that needs to be fixed, and an overpowered item that DOESN'T need to be fixed: "Is the suggested change something that could be accomplished through simple restraint, while still allowing the user to use the item as intended?"
- The cloak still gives +2 charisma, and is still has charges of charm (dominate?). If somebody thinks it should be a 1/day cloak, they have the power (because we're not a bunch of 4 year olds) to use it once per day, and stop. Leaving the item as is does not affect their ability to use the item.
- If, however, the cloak had a 50% chance of automatically charming any enemy in the area each round, and that was deemed overpowered (it most certainly would be), I'd be in favor of nerfing it, because the only options available to the player are "Use it in its overpowered state" or "Don't use it at all." That's a bad choice, and it really does punish players who don't want to exploit the overpowered item. They don't have any way to self-impose a restriction upon themselves, and an item that should be unique and fun is either game-breaking or useless (because you refuse to use it).
And that notion of game-breaking brings me to my conclusion. The cloak, as it used to be, was at least game-alteringly overpowered, if not game-breakingly overpowered. The power of unlimited charms, available at level 1, is obvious and undeniable. And that's EXACTLY why it didn't need to be changed. The cloak is a novelty. You find it, you go on a spree, charming anything and everything. Maybe you do like @ZanathKariashi and do a cloak-only run of the game, just to see what happens...
...And then you move on. Because like @Tresset said: in the end, blowing through the game with unlimited charges from the cloak isn't fun, and people aren't going to abuse the cloak if abusing the cloak isn't fun. There's a reason why people don't blow through the game over and over again using Ctrl-Y, and that same principle applies to the cloak. Its power is obvious, and if you have a brain, self-restraint is the logical result.
Only now I can't try that naked cloak run that Zanath did, because other members of the community decided that self-restrait isn't "a valid argument" when it comes to keeping a game fun.
So furious.
Keep in mind, they didn't outright remove the cloak, they simply nerfed it.
And some tend to use beneficial bugs. Feel free to restore the original version in your game.
But to me, something that turns 65535 from 0 after one use, is simply a bug.
I acknowledge your points, but what I say is valid. The dev's obviously nerfed the cloak (a very small part of the game in comparison to all +3 weapons and a druid's 5th level spells) for a reason.