Werewolf island -- the PC helped the children, saved the village and then the village turned into werewolves and the PC slaughtered everyone he just saved. Total defeat. Had a similar feeling with the Hexxat and Melisan storylines -- not fond of 'you were a dupe and responsible for the death of innocents' plots.
Abazigal turns me into mincemeat -- that fight always humbles me, and I've never been able to win it without cranking the difficulty to "easy" and cheesing it a bit. A close second would be that party of psychos in Watcher's Keep right before you get to the end -- that fight pretty much stretches my tactical abilities to their limits.
(And, of course, like everyone else, I've had some pretty cheesy deaths as well -- the gibberling that just happened to roll a lucky 20 at the worst possible moment, the number of times I didn't realize that I was fighting with my fists instead of my weapon, the times I didn't notice that I'd been level-drained to near oblivion by some creature, etc.)
Well, Kangaxx learning was quite frustrating, so I would vote that as the worst defeat, it's just a frustrating fight without the proper gimmick.
Other than that, when I started playing BG2, I wanted to rush through the main story asap, I did very very few sidequests, only my main stronghold... ToB was really hard for me with my low levels and low knowledge of the game (I don't think I ever used stoneskin... or any defensive spell outside of mirror image lol)
Really, rushing through the game made the bigger fights so hard. No watcher's keep either. Gromnir was hard, sendai was really rough, draconis felt nearly impossible to me, although i got him in the end (I didn't use true sight back then..)
But the only enemy I couldn't defeat, frustrating enough, was melissan. Today when I complete the game, shes a complete pushover, one of the easier bosses (My last clear was hilarious, 4x greater whirwinds can kill her in almost 2rounds). But damn, her 3rd battle is ROUGH when youre underleveled, underequipped and have low knowledge of the game. The 3rd battle starts with the 4 shadow slayers, she ports away and summons more... It felt like I couldn't hack through them fast enough to get back to her. The leveldrains were too much and i eventually stopped there, hopeless. I came back to the fight a few months ago in a fresh game where i had cleared everything, had all the good gear, and was sporting my lvl34 cleric instead of my older one who was more like lvl23-25?
It's funny that I'm talking about this, because I made myself a challange to recreate the scenario in which I coudln't beat melissan. Cleric of lathander, with the first npcs i meet (Yoshimo>Imoen, minsc jaheira aerie keldorn). I think i'm rushing through the game more than I did when i first played, but it's definitely much harder than playing the game the way I do it normally... especially when you start off right away by going into the cleric questline.
The most memorable defeat is losing to the single Yuan-Ti mage at the De'Arnise Keep. In my first bg2 game, I had NO IDEA how spells work and the only spells I used was Magic Missile and Cure Light/Medium Wounds. The Yuan-Ti always succeeded in confusing/charming my party members. In a few rounds, I watched in agony as my confused/charmed party members were butchering each other. After this encounter, I learned the forbidden arts of Cltr+R and Cltr+Y.
Haha, yes! That was my first party-wipe in BG 2, whilst I was recording my LP. To fall to a single random unremarkable Yuan-ti Mage and his Troll bodyguard was... embarrassing. In my defence I had yet to learn how useful 'Remove Fear' is... Actually, that's not a defence is it? lol
Anyways my worst defeat? Hmm... how to classify this? Of course the worst actual defeats results in death and reload, but if u reload, u don't suffer the worst consequences when you win. Sometimes the worst defeats are Pyrrhic victories, where you win, so as a minimum reloader, you cannot bring yourself to reload, but the encounter has cost you dearly...
So,
A) Worst actual defeats: Karoug Didn't have any silver weapons, hadn't found/identified the dagger in the level below and had no idea he was standing infront of a chest containing the very I needed to kill him. Died a good half-dozen times before I was forced to finally consult a walkthrough (I did the rest of the TotSC content blind), cos I wasn't even getting close to killing him and could not see how I could possibly do it.
Worst Pyrrhic Victory: Random Demi-Lich in Watcher's Keep. This is relatively recent and still painfully fresh in the memory. Was just feeling awfully proud of myself for taking down Saladrex with relative ease. Wandered innocently into a random crypt to encounter my first Demi-Lich. I knew it would be tough, I did not expect that pretty much nothing I had, whether weapons or spells, could hurt it. Charname eventually forced to use the Slayer form to take down the fiend, but not before 4 of his 5 companions were lost to Imprisonment. I did not have a Freedom Scroll, or had any idea where to find it in a Blind playthrough...
My most embarrasing was during Rasaad's quest in ToB
There is this moment when you approach the Lumber Camp and one dwarf warns you that it's a trap. Then there are some soldiers approaching. So I, full of confidence, take my epic level main char (fighter 7/cleric 30+) and start the fight...only to be slaughtered by immense barrage of arrows. Seriously, as a reference to Order of the Stick, I contemplated renaming him to 'Pinata'. The funny thing is that the fight was ultra-easy when I cast the mirror spell which deflected all projectiles.
Still, I felt dirty.
Also, during SoA I always try to avoid Umber Hulks when I don't have Death Spell at hand.
Also, during SoA I always try to avoid Umber Hulks when I don't have Death Spell at hand.
@Lathlaer Really? Do u play on insane or something? They were a bit tricky when I first met them in the D'Arnise Keep, but nothing a classic Web+AoE can't handle. Once u got Chaotic Commands, they are pretty much just sword/bow fodder.
I used Spell Immunity: Enchantment in my ultra-tweaked (by me) vanilla, but in BG2:EE I think a quick Fireball after an another Fireball, with a character with Fire Resistance over 100 will do fine, unless, you have Lirlacor and slay 'em to death.
@Heindrich1988 It's not that I can't handle them, because I can. It's that fight with them tends to be a bit tedious and to be clear - I mean those Umbers which you meet as a surprise when you sleep, not those in the Keep which you can kill quite easily. Casting Chaotic Commands when their balls of Chaos are already in the air is a bit pointless. Still they tend to hit a bit hard depending on the game stage.
And yes, I could web them or cloudkill them. But I don't like the mess the web or cloudkill leave behind them. I have to wait for them to finish, I can't save, I can't sleep, I have to move to other places (in case of cloudkill). So basically - not fun
Considering I only sleep when I absolutely have to, it's easier to reload than to fight them with drained resources.
@Lathlaer Ah I see... I had 3 clerics/druids in my party. (Aerie, Anomen and Jaheira). So I had Chaotic Commands protection for the whole party pretty much permanently by the Underdark. I hate disabling spells.
Experience that conditioned me to quick save every 10 seconds:
Planar sphere core. About to insert the demon heart to return home. Badly beaten up party Room is clear, or so I thought. Suddenly, a wild Adamanitite Golem appears Adamanitite Golem uses punch It's super effective Keldorn has fainted Adamanitite Golem uses stomp It's super effective Valygar has fainted Aerie uses sling It's not very effective Adamanitite Golem uses elbow drop It's super effective Yoshimo has fainted Ajwz has left the game (ragequit) Adamanitite Golem is victorious
An addendum to my citing the final battle with Sarevok as one of my "worst defeat" battles:
I just beat him for the first time in EE.
The slider was on "normal". I had saved a *lot* of potions. I had immunity to electricity on every character, and immunity to fire on every character but Yeslick, who had a 50% potion of fire resistance. Yeslick died during the battle, and was the only one, because he only had 50% fire resistance.
I had saved up boohoodles of arrows of detonation and dispelling.
I defeated Sarevok and Co. with the most ease I've ever experienced, using my bard's wand of lightning over and over, having Imoen deliberately set off all the lightning traps in the central Bhaal floor symbol, and my melee team with +2 weapons, oils of speed for the whole party, potions of invulnerability for the fighters, potions of various strengths for the whole party, potions of heroism, and several other potions.
It looks like the secret to the final vanilla BG1:EE battle is to horde potions of grounding, heroism, strength, invulnerability, and green scrolls of lightning and fire protection, plus arrows of detonation and dispelling. (This is not new knowledge, I don't think.)
I don't know if Semaj still had his "Tattoo of Power". If he did he never cast it.
A lot of my dread of this final battle is likely based on Tutu, BGT, NPC Project, original vanilla BG1, and other runs I've done that made the final battle much, much, more difficult than in EE.
The bottom line of that analysis is that, if I'm right, I want to fall at the feet of the EE devs and kiss them and anoint them with oil for finally giving me a feeling that I can beat this battle fairly, merely by hoarding and saving my potion and arrow resources throughout the game towards the end battle.
This experience made me feel *so* justified and reinforced for being a hoarder!
Final battle against Sarevok. It was a battle for the ages, a legendary game of cat and mouse, with my solo assassin sneaking around splattering his acolytes with backstabs. Finally it was down to me and Sarevok. I decided to drink all my potions and finish the game in style. Violet potion, 25 strength. Potion of stone form... oops.
Taugosz khosann at the bandit camp. I decided to go rampage on the camp and after slashing through Chill and Talon I finally reach this guy. My frontliners take a bit of beating so I decide to have Jaheira cast entangle on him and I switch to bows. To my amazement although he is under the effect of the entangle he uproots the "branches" (or whatever) of the entangle spell and starts chasing my lads with the spell still around him. He killed everyone in the end.
The first time I ever reached the end of ToB, the boss cast Time Stop, then proceeded to physically attack my main character until he died. Lamest, most boring defeat ever.
Just had another one...playing BG1 Tutu with the BG1 NPC Project installed...
BLOODY KIVAN!!! Took him along to the bandit camp, and I've pretty much tricked Tazok into thinking I wanna be a bandit, and then Kivan blows cover and starts crying about Deheriana and then Tazok comes and squishes my sorcerer charname in one go. Civian reloads.
Tactics. I resolved the issue by uninstalling that monster.
More seriously though... I would have to go with Draconis. That guy gave me fits my first playthrough of TOB. I simply could not find a way to beat him, so I just left, went and completed Watcher's Keep (which I had not done as yet) and then went after Sendai. When I returned to fight Draconis, he was a total pushover.
It should be noted that I was playing a new TOB game (not from SOA). I know... Heresy. As a result, I was sorely lacking in magical equipment, which Watcher's Keep provided in abundance.
Also Sarevok. Every time. There is no battle in the Baldur's Gate series that consistently challenges me every time the way that does. Depending on my party makeup, sometimes Irenicus is tough, sometimes Kangaxx is tough, sometimes Beholders or Mind Flayers etc... But Sarevok is ALWAYS crazy difficult.
Bizarrely, I've never found Aec'Letec challenging. Different strokes I guess.
Watcher's Keep. second no magic room on insane, the one with the demons (AR 3004?). didn't have fear resistant equipment (not like there's too much of those), potions of clarity (if those even work there), or good enough saves... it was hell. solved by buttloads of summoning items, and using the portal multiple times to leave, heal up, and have a go at 'em once again. probably could have solved it by contingencies (if those even work there, sequencers sure as shit don't), but... eh.
I think the biggest learning you need to realise is
Death of characters is not the end of the world, the death of CHARNAME is. If things get tough, don't matter your strategy, run away and let the rest of the party bite the dust, come back later after drinking all your potions and buffing yourself to highly polished shine...
I suppose my worst defeat that has not been mentioned here was wandering around looking for the bandit camp when I stumbled into a group of red wizards who promptly made all my team scarper in fear. The wizards themselves did little damage it was the spiders and traps that took my team out one at a time while I was helpless to watch... My necromancer somehow wandered to a corner and was unscathed. I left five bodies that day... Imoen, Khalid, Jaheria, Minsc and Dynahier. I did not return. Still completed it.
BG II, fighting Dark Moon Monks and their legion of random companions of all types of skills. That fight is way too tough for how early you can get to it.
Gold medal: The final battle with Sarevok in BG1. After at least two dozen replays over fifteen years, this is the battle that still fills me with ultimate dread. I don't think I've ever beaten it with the difficulty slider on Core. Semaj's tattoo, Angelo's arrows of detonation, Tazok, and Sarevok's haste with ability to rip through AC as though it were toilet paper. Two battle horrors if you don't find the pressure plates before all hell breaks loose.
Its definitely a tough battle, there are cheesy ways of winning it though which aren't as rewarding.
Thankfully i picked the best class for the final battle (Archer) and just Arrow of Detonation'd the hell out of everyone while hasting away from sarevok. He killed everyone in my party though (I believe it was only party of three though)
My most recent humiliating defeat happened at the end of Neera's quest in ToB.
I managed to defeat Vicross after a few reloads (I had some trouble at first because she went invisible, used time stop and cast nasty things; this time Neera timestopped her first). My party is a bit battered, but the quest is over, right?
So I looted everyone, leveled up a character, identified magic items. I didn't save.
I tolled the bell to be teleported back, and here comes Szass Tam. Wait, he's turning on me? I didn't save, did I? NOOOOO! (I really should have seen it coming)
Nimbul. First time I played BG he must have wiped out my party at least a dozen times.
He still does from time to time. I RP now so I don't rest as soon as I step in the Nashkel mines and my party is weary and broken by the time we run into him-.-
My first major defeat was in ToB, which I played more of that SoA when I first got BG2 because I liked the higher level spells. I made it to Draconis with a minimum of skill and effort by throwing planetars at my enemies. When I reached him he obviously murdered my planetar with little effort and I was floored when he just wrecked it. I was mentally like, "No, no that's not what's supposed to happen!" as he killed us all. I tried to rework things, but that was the first fight I couldn't brute force down.
Nowadays my worst defeats are those were I watch my party helplessly running around due to status effects. Honestly, it's the mindflayers that you don't see coming that usually ruin me the worst. I think it the alhoon that you fight during one of Hexxat's quests that really gave me problems when I really tried.
My first major defeat was in ToB, which I played more of that SoA when I first got BG2 because I liked the higher level spells. I made it to Draconis with a minimum of skill and effort by throwing planetars at my enemies. When I reached him he obviously murdered my planetar with little effort and I was floored when he just wrecked it. I was mentally like, "No, no that's not what's supposed to happen!" as he killed us all. I tried to rework things, but that was the first fight I couldn't brute force down.
Nowadays my worst defeats are those were I watch my party helplessly running around due to status effects. Honestly, it's the mindflayers that you don't see coming that usually ruin me the worst. I think it the alhoon that you fight during one of Hexxat's quests that really gave me problems when I really tried.
Aec'Letec. First time I played TotSC in years (probably over a decade) had a little bug, where the cultists didn't do anything during my fight with him. "Aha," thought I. "I am not an exploiter, I swear, but this tanar'ri is quite difficult as I don't have anything to protect me from death! I shall ignore his useless cultists and concentrate solely on him!"
Then Aec'Letec died, and all the cultists turned in to Aec'Letec's. And my party died horribly. It was very sad.
Ascension ToB is an evil fight that usually takes me a few reloads. I also can't count how many times I'm forgotten to turn off party AI and had one of my idiots slaughter poor Imoen when she's lost herself, which is truly most of my CHARNAME's greatest failure: not protecting little sis, and actually killing her. Owch.
My worst defeat after not playing bg2 for about 10 years was when I was in spellhold just coming out of Bohdi's dungeon and figuring hey I can take Irenicus right now without the other inmates. BOOM one shot death spell on the whole party.
The second was exploring the underdark and walking into the southern tunnel entrance. Elder orb petrifies my main character. Game over.
My level 10-11 party did that fight yesterday for over an hour to get my first victory. Granted, I have no mage atm due to RP reasons. Then after I defeated it I realized that a certain NPC had died. I spent another hour trying to save that NPC + get the outcome I wanted with Rasaad.
Comments
(And, of course, like everyone else, I've had some pretty cheesy deaths as well -- the gibberling that just happened to roll a lucky 20 at the worst possible moment, the number of times I didn't realize that I was fighting with my fists instead of my weapon, the times I didn't notice that I'd been level-drained to near oblivion by some creature, etc.)
Other than that, when I started playing BG2, I wanted to rush through the main story asap, I did very very few sidequests, only my main stronghold... ToB was really hard for me with my low levels and low knowledge of the game (I don't think I ever used stoneskin... or any defensive spell outside of mirror image lol)
Really, rushing through the game made the bigger fights so hard. No watcher's keep either. Gromnir was hard, sendai was really rough, draconis felt nearly impossible to me, although i got him in the end (I didn't use true sight back then..)
But the only enemy I couldn't defeat, frustrating enough, was melissan. Today when I complete the game, shes a complete pushover, one of the easier bosses (My last clear was hilarious, 4x greater whirwinds can kill her in almost 2rounds). But damn, her 3rd battle is ROUGH when youre underleveled, underequipped and have low knowledge of the game. The 3rd battle starts with the 4 shadow slayers, she ports away and summons more... It felt like I couldn't hack through them fast enough to get back to her. The leveldrains were too much and i eventually stopped there, hopeless. I came back to the fight a few months ago in a fresh game where i had cleared everything, had all the good gear, and was sporting my lvl34 cleric instead of my older one who was more like lvl23-25?
It's funny that I'm talking about this, because I made myself a challange to recreate the scenario in which I coudln't beat melissan. Cleric of lathander, with the first npcs i meet (Yoshimo>Imoen, minsc jaheira aerie keldorn). I think i'm rushing through the game more than I did when i first played, but it's definitely much harder than playing the game the way I do it normally... especially when you start off right away by going into the cleric questline.
Haha, yes! That was my first party-wipe in BG 2, whilst I was recording my LP. To fall to a single random unremarkable Yuan-ti Mage and his Troll bodyguard was... embarrassing. In my defence I had yet to learn how useful 'Remove Fear' is... Actually, that's not a defence is it? lol
Anyways my worst defeat? Hmm... how to classify this? Of course the worst actual defeats results in death and reload, but if u reload, u don't suffer the worst consequences when you win. Sometimes the worst defeats are Pyrrhic victories, where you win, so as a minimum reloader, you cannot bring yourself to reload, but the encounter has cost you dearly...
So,
A) Worst actual defeats: Karoug
Didn't have any silver weapons, hadn't found/identified the dagger in the level below and had no idea he was standing infront of a chest containing the very I needed to kill him. Died a good half-dozen times before I was forced to finally consult a walkthrough (I did the rest of the TotSC content blind), cos I wasn't even getting close to killing him and could not see how I could possibly do it.
This is relatively recent and still painfully fresh in the memory. Was just feeling awfully proud of myself for taking down Saladrex with relative ease. Wandered innocently into a random crypt to encounter my first Demi-Lich. I knew it would be tough, I did not expect that pretty much nothing I had, whether weapons or spells, could hurt it. Charname eventually forced to use the Slayer form to take down the fiend, but not before 4 of his 5 companions were lost to Imprisonment. I did not have a Freedom Scroll, or had any idea where to find it in a Blind playthrough...
Still, I felt dirty.
Also, during SoA I always try to avoid Umber Hulks when I don't have Death Spell at hand.
Really? Do u play on insane or something? They were a bit tricky when I first met them in the D'Arnise Keep, but nothing a classic Web+AoE can't handle. Once u got Chaotic Commands, they are pretty much just sword/bow fodder.
It's not that I can't handle them, because I can. It's that fight with them tends to be a bit tedious and to be clear - I mean those Umbers which you meet as a surprise when you sleep, not those in the Keep which you can kill quite easily. Casting Chaotic Commands when their balls of Chaos are already in the air is a bit pointless. Still they tend to hit a bit hard depending on the game stage.
And yes, I could web them or cloudkill them. But I don't like the mess the web or cloudkill leave behind them. I have to wait for them to finish, I can't save, I can't sleep, I have to move to other places (in case of cloudkill). So basically - not fun
Considering I only sleep when I absolutely have to, it's easier to reload than to fight them with drained resources.
Ah I see... I had 3 clerics/druids in my party. (Aerie, Anomen and Jaheira). So I had Chaotic Commands protection for the whole party pretty much permanently by the Underdark. I hate disabling spells.
Planar sphere core. About to insert the demon heart to return home.
Badly beaten up party
Room is clear, or so I thought.
Suddenly, a wild Adamanitite Golem appears
Adamanitite Golem uses punch
It's super effective
Keldorn has fainted
Adamanitite Golem uses stomp
It's super effective
Valygar has fainted
Aerie uses sling
It's not very effective
Adamanitite Golem uses elbow drop
It's super effective
Yoshimo has fainted
Ajwz has left the game (ragequit)
Adamanitite Golem is victorious
I just beat him for the first time in EE.
I had saved up boohoodles of arrows of detonation and dispelling.
I defeated Sarevok and Co. with the most ease I've ever experienced, using my bard's wand of lightning over and over, having Imoen deliberately set off all the lightning traps in the central Bhaal floor symbol, and my melee team with +2 weapons, oils of speed for the whole party, potions of invulnerability for the fighters, potions of various strengths for the whole party, potions of heroism, and several other potions.
It looks like the secret to the final vanilla BG1:EE battle is to horde potions of grounding, heroism, strength, invulnerability, and green scrolls of lightning and fire protection, plus arrows of detonation and dispelling. (This is not new knowledge, I don't think.)
I don't know if Semaj still had his "Tattoo of Power". If he did he never cast it.
A lot of my dread of this final battle is likely based on Tutu, BGT, NPC Project, original vanilla BG1, and other runs I've done that made the final battle much, much, more difficult than in EE.
The bottom line of that analysis is that, if I'm right, I want to fall at the feet of the EE devs and kiss them and anoint them with oil for finally giving me a feeling that I can beat this battle fairly, merely by hoarding and saving my potion and arrow resources throughout the game towards the end battle.
This experience made me feel *so* justified and reinforced for being a hoarder!
Final battle against Sarevok. It was a battle for the ages, a legendary game of cat and mouse, with my solo assassin sneaking around splattering his acolytes with backstabs. Finally it was down to me and Sarevok. I decided to drink all my potions and finish the game in style. Violet potion, 25 strength. Potion of stone form... oops.
This is why they tell you not to mix drugs.
More seriously though... I would have to go with Draconis. That guy gave me fits my first playthrough of TOB. I simply could not find a way to beat him, so I just left, went and completed Watcher's Keep (which I had not done as yet) and then went after Sendai. When I returned to fight Draconis, he was a total pushover.
It should be noted that I was playing a new TOB game (not from SOA). I know... Heresy. As a result, I was sorely lacking in magical equipment, which Watcher's Keep provided in abundance.
Also Sarevok. Every time. There is no battle in the Baldur's Gate series that consistently challenges me every time the way that does. Depending on my party makeup, sometimes Irenicus is tough, sometimes Kangaxx is tough, sometimes Beholders or Mind Flayers etc... But Sarevok is ALWAYS crazy difficult.
Bizarrely, I've never found Aec'Letec challenging. Different strokes I guess.
Baldur's Gate is a learning curve.
I think the biggest learning you need to realise is
I suppose my worst defeat that has not been mentioned here was wandering around looking for the bandit camp when I stumbled into a group of red wizards who promptly made all my team scarper in fear. The wizards themselves did little damage it was the spiders and traps that took my team out one at a time while I was helpless to watch... My necromancer somehow wandered to a corner and was unscathed. I left five bodies that day... Imoen, Khalid, Jaheria, Minsc and Dynahier. I did not return. Still completed it.
Thankfully i picked the best class for the final battle (Archer) and just Arrow of Detonation'd the hell out of everyone while hasting away from sarevok. He killed everyone in my party though (I believe it was only party of three though)
So I looted everyone, leveled up a character, identified magic items. I didn't save.
I tolled the bell to be teleported back, and here comes Szass Tam. Wait, he's turning on me? I didn't save, did I? NOOOOO! (I really should have seen it coming)
He still does from time to time. I RP now so I don't rest as soon as I step in the Nashkel mines and my party is weary and broken by the time we run into him-.-
Nowadays my worst defeats are those were I watch my party helplessly running around due to status effects. Honestly, it's the mindflayers that you don't see coming that usually ruin me the worst. I think it the alhoon that you fight during one of Hexxat's quests that really gave me problems when I really tried.
Nowadays my worst defeats are those were I watch my party helplessly running around due to status effects. Honestly, it's the mindflayers that you don't see coming that usually ruin me the worst. I think it the alhoon that you fight during one of Hexxat's quests that really gave me problems when I really tried.
Then Aec'Letec died, and all the cultists turned in to Aec'Letec's. And my party died horribly. It was very sad.
Ascension ToB is an evil fight that usually takes me a few reloads. I also can't count how many times I'm forgotten to turn off party AI and had one of my idiots slaughter poor Imoen when she's lost herself, which is truly most of my CHARNAME's greatest failure: not protecting little sis, and actually killing her. Owch.
The second was exploring the underdark and walking into the southern tunnel entrance. Elder orb petrifies my main character. Game over.
I have forgotten so much.
My level 10-11 party did that fight yesterday for over an hour to get my first victory. Granted, I have no mage atm due to RP reasons. Then after I defeated it I realized that a certain NPC had died. I spent another hour trying to save that NPC + get the outcome I wanted with Rasaad.