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Find Familiar in IWD:EE

Since I don't want to derail the thread this question popped in again, I'll make this new thread since I'm still curious how this'll be handled.
Thunder said:

Dee said:

All enemy mages start combat by casting Find Familiar. Of course, since only the player can have a familiar, the spell always fails. ;)

In all seriousness, we want to leave some things up for discovery once you actually get into the game and play. I think people will be pleased with what they see, though.

As a follow up to the Find Familiar comment:

In BG1&2 only the main character could have a familiar as far as I remember. Since there isn't a main character in IWD, but rather up to a full party of main characters, how will the Find Familiar spell work? Will all characters who know and are able to cast this spell be able to gain a familiar?
Other solutions I can think of include removing the spell altogether, but that would be a huge loss.

Any ideas?

@Dee

booinyoureyes
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Comments

  • CasadoomCasadoom Member Posts: 68
    Have only one (or more) active familiar in play at any given time or by rebalancing the ability for party play.

    ThunderjackjackQuartzJuliusBorisov
  • CoryNewbCoryNewb Member Posts: 1,330
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,747
    edited September 2014
    Would six familiars make the game much easier? If so, then it wouldn't be a good idea to me.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,336
    Nimran said:

    Would six familiars make the game much easier? If so, then it wouldn't be a good idea to me.

    Given that they would be nerfed BGEE familiars, I don't think so. It's really just a few extra hp for mages and bards, unless you want to do a lot of reloading when one dies.

    There is also the availability of Find Familiar scrolls to consider.

    jackjackQuartzNimranJuliusBorisov
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,247
    Fardragon said:

    There is also the availability of Find Familiar scrolls to consider.

    This. It would be rather easy for the Devs to limit the availability of this scroll in the game to one.

    QuartzJuliusBorisov
  • CaloNordCaloNord Member Posts: 1,780
    I doubt it, in BG the familiar can be something of a liability. I always have mine in my inventory, he often got one shotted by ranger enemies. The HP bonus is worth a little but ultimately, not much in my opinion. :)

    Still, I'd love to cavort around with a cabal of evil wizards with familiars. . .

    image

    JuliusBorisov
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,336
    jackjack said:

    Fardragon said:

    There is also the availability of Find Familiar scrolls to consider.

    This. It would be rather easy for the Devs to limit the availability of this scroll in the game to one.
    You could still start with the spell if you where a mage or sorcerer.

    jackjackQuartzbooinyoureyesJuliusBorisov
  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    I can't really imagine how even six familiars would unbalance the game. They're not really useful for their special abilities, but mainly confer a HP bonus. When you're level 1, that bonus actually means something, but I find it quickly fades into the background.

    KamigoroshijackjackbooinyoureyesJuliusBorisov
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,350

    Lose an inventory slot and gain some hp, the mage trade!

    a brownie in your boot?

    Given how many miles its master will walk, that brownie will slowly but surely metamorphose into an cheesie.

    jackjackMoomintrollbooinyoureyesJuliusBorisov
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,247
    Fardragon said:

    jackjack said:

    Fardragon said:

    There is also the availability of Find Familiar scrolls to consider.

    This. It would be rather easy for the Devs to limit the availability of this scroll in the game to one.
    You could still start with the spell if you where a mage or sorcerer.
    Damn and blast your furious logic!

    QuartzbooinyoureyesJuliusBorisov
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,387
    I find it funny that people here are talking about "having six familiars" in a party as though people routinely play with parties comprised entirely of mages and/or beastmasters.

    Besides, if someone wants to try IWD with an all-mage party, I say let them have all the familiars that they want - it'll just be more skulls for minotaurs to crack. ;-)

    DreadKhanjackjackAedanJuliusBorisov
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,544
    There is such a thing as non-single class mages you know. Fighter mages in vanilla are much better than pure fighters as a rule.

    jackjackNimranbooinyoureyesJuliusBorisov
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 1,638
    I suggest that when a familiar dies, its master should simply take some damage (like in Neverwinter Nights) rather than losing constitution permanently. That'll encourage people to have their familiars out, rather than having them in the bag just so they can gain some health. I think this change will make familiars a lot more fun to use, but that's just my opinion.

    AedanJarrakulArdulJuliusBorisov
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 1,638

    I find it funny that people here are talking about "having six familiars" in a party as though people routinely play with parties comprised entirely of mages and/or beastmasters.

    Besides, if someone wants to try IWD with an all-mage party, I say let them have all the familiars that they want - it'll just be more skulls for minotaurs to crack. ;-)

    You know, if they make the changes to Find Familiar that I stated before, I'd totally make an all-mage party! I don't remember the last time I had six familiars in one team. Are YOU familiar with such an experience?

    jackjackbooinyoureyesQuartzJuliusBorisov
  • SwordsNotWordsSwordsNotWords Member Posts: 147
    If it's feasible in practice and not limited by any irreversible coding etc. then I don't see why the ability shouldn't be given to all party members (if they're capable of casting Find Familiar) as surely any difficulty balancing arguments can pretty much be ignored by the fact that if you really think it diminishes the challenge of the game that much, then you can you just not cast the spell to begin with.

    jackjack
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,747
    Well, if it's not that big a deal, I don't see why it would be an issue.

    jackjackbooinyoureyes
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,028
    I can't speak for everyone else, but I mentioned six familiars as the extreme case. If it's not broken there, it's unlikely (although not totally impossible, I'll grant) to be broken with 2-5 familiars.

    jackjackThe_New_RomanceQuartzJuliusBorisov
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,544
    @Fardragon‌ does HoF add any HD to monsters? Not sure if it does. Command anyways beats Sleep in many circumstances, and frankly beyond sleep and eventually Web, low level sorcerers are very, very weak. Not saying you cant milk sleep, as I am not certain, but my solo cleric was considerably easier than my solo sorcerer, despite the sorcerer grinding. The sorcerer was maybe better when he got Summon Spiders, but most of the game he wasnt much better than the very aggressively used cleric.

    6 sorcerers anyways will find some fights pretty tough iirc, notably the Iron Golems. They SEEMED much more freakin ridiculous than the BG2 version, but I am not checking code!

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 1,638
    Jarrakul said:



    Fardragon said:


    Meh, a party of six sorcerers would steamroller everything. Your Minotaurs would be bite size meaty chunks before they could even get close. It would turn HoF into easy mode.

    Oh, so sorcerers are OP, then? Okay, it looks like on my first IDEE playthrough I'll be going five skalds (one for each possible skald alignment) and a beast master (chaotic good). The beast master's Faerie Dragon can turn all the skalds invisible. All the battles will be dominated by the songs of these unseen nordic minstrels, while all the familiars (as well as the dart-throwing beast master) will tear apart all the enemies with +10 to damage, THAC0, and AC (+20 later on). Sounds like fun. (Yes, I know that you can't really tear something apart with a dart. Who cares?)

    The only problem is getting all those scrolls.

    Wait, does skald song stack with itself? because if so, I kind of want to run one knight and five minstrels sometime, familiars or no.
    Yep, it does! The best part is that if a bard casts Mislead, the copy can use bard song as well! Have fun!

    VarwulfQuartzJuliusBorisov
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,732
    edited September 2014
    Jarrakul said:



    Fardragon said:


    Meh, a party of six sorcerers would steamroller everything. Your Minotaurs would be bite size meaty chunks before they could even get close. It would turn HoF into easy mode.

    Oh, so sorcerers are OP, then? Okay, it looks like on my first IDEE playthrough I'll be going five skalds (one for each possible skald alignment) and a beast master (chaotic good). The beast master's Faerie Dragon can turn all the skalds invisible. All the battles will be dominated by the songs of these unseen nordic minstrels, while all the familiars (as well as the dart-throwing beast master) will tear apart all the enemies with +10 to damage, THAC0, and AC (+20 later on). Sounds like fun. (Yes, I know that you can't really tear something apart with a dart. Who cares?)

    The only problem is getting all those scrolls.

    Wait, does skald song stack with itself? because if so, I kind of want to run one knight and five minstrels sometime, familiars or no.
    I can't say for IWDEE (NDA) but in the case of BG2EE I tested it and it does indeed stack (though the character screen gets kind of wonky about it).

    jackjackbooinyoureyesQuartzJuliusBorisov
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,028
    Crazy. I do know about the mislead trick (don't use it, though, because it feels like cheating to me), but I didn't know it stacked. that's nuts.

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