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Weapon styles

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Comments

  • kensaikensai Member Posts: 228
    edited November 2014
    I disagree that hla are considered cheating.
    While they were added in my game by mistake, I found out that they belongs here in hof.
    BTW there only two imbalanced hla here in hof. It's hardiness and deva. While deva shines only in undead battles, other thant that she loses in power to stalker. Hardiness is op a little but you can bump resistances to ridiculous amounts even without this hla.
    If hla are cheats then they sre even bigger cheats added in the game by default. Dual wielding swords of action with improved haste, backstabbing with mislead, fire resistance higher than 100% and shrowd of flame or other fire spells, chan contingency, etc.
    Even laughing stocks called wizards including malavon, they are so weak and stupid that we can consider that a cheating too.
    And if somebody point out that enemies doesn't have hla - of course they don't have, they are too small in lvl!It's only possible of that enourmous amounts of exp that hof gives you (is that cheat too?)
    Hla fits perfectly in this game because hof is pretty much unbalanced from the beginning.

    Post edited by kensai on
    RAM021
  • kensaikensai Member Posts: 228
    Wowo said:


    Giving yourself abilities that weren't intended that make the game easier is definitely cheating. Your game though so enjoy it as you like.

    Well if we follow your logic then, comparing original and enhanced, we can call all this new kits, spells that enemies don't use, dual wielding and of course new mods - we can call this all cheating.

    RAM021by_the_sword
  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    kensai said:

    Wowo said:


    Giving yourself abilities that weren't intended that make the game easier is definitely cheating. Your game though so enjoy it as you like.

    Well if we follow your logic then, comparing original and enhanced, we can call all this new kits, spells that enemies don't use, dual wielding and of course new mods - we can call this all cheating.
    Those were included in the game by the developers. HLAs were disabled by the developers because they felt they were too powerful. That should tell you a lot.

    It is your game though - none of us care if you want to cheat. Just admit that it is cheating.

    So what? Everyone has done it at some stage.

    jackjackWowo
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,407
    Ummm I think most people are already at home.... (or wasting time at work - shameful!! ) ;-)

    kensaijackjackNimran
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,842
    Wanderon said:

    Ummm I think most people are already at home.... (or wasting time at work - shameful!! ) ;-)

    Don't judge me, I'm (usually) on break.

  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 393
    Shikao said:

    HLAs in IWDEE just oozes cheese.

    Wowo said:

    HLAs are stupid to have.

    PnP says otherwise...

    kensai
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    RAM021 said:

    Shikao said:

    HLAs in IWDEE just oozes cheese.

    Wowo said:

    HLAs are stupid to have.

    PnP says otherwise...
    You mean the 2nd edition PnP rules that don't have HLAs and assume characters will retire before they reach level 20?

    jackjackatcDaveelminster
  • RedrakeRedrake Member Posts: 423
    Fardragon said:

    RAM021 said:

    Shikao said:

    HLAs in IWDEE just oozes cheese.

    Wowo said:

    HLAs are stupid to have.

    PnP says otherwise...
    You mean the 2nd edition PnP rules that don't have HLAs and assume characters will retire before they reach level 20?
    Do you dare the mock the almighty PnP rules of BG2 ToB?

    I have to wonder why they never considered making first an EE of IWD2 and then converting to that EE BG1, 2 and IWD.

  • wubblewubble Member Posts: 3,156
    edited November 2014
    Redrake said:

    Fardragon said:

    RAM021 said:

    Shikao said:

    HLAs in IWDEE just oozes cheese.

    Wowo said:

    HLAs are stupid to have.

    PnP says otherwise...
    You mean the 2nd edition PnP rules that don't have HLAs and assume characters will retire before they reach level 20?
    Do you dare the mock the almighty PnP rules of BG2 ToB?

    I have to wonder why they never considered making first an EE of IWD2 and then converting to that EE BG1, 2 and IWD.

    Because that would have meant 5 times as much work and as the BG series was the main thing fans wanted it would have been silly to delay it and release IWD2 first which wouldn't have been a financially viable move. also the bg games would probably not have worked with the IWD2 implementation of the hybrid 2nd/3rd edition ruleset.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,207
    Yeah plus it would mean playing with the gross 3e ruleset. I tried it once, and got 'prestige' all over me. Yuck.

    jackjackelminsterathanas
  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 393
    Fardragon said:

    You mean the 2nd edition PnP rules that don't have HLAs and assume characters will retire before they reach level 20?

    Do not know much about 2nd Edition do you... ignorance is no excuse.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    RAM021 said:

    Fardragon said:

    You mean the 2nd edition PnP rules that don't have HLAs and assume characters will retire before they reach level 20?

    Do not know much about 2nd Edition do you... ignorance is no excuse.
    ???

    There was a High Level Campaigns book for characters approaching God-like levels, but core books all stopped at 20th level. No HLAs. When high level stuff was implimented it was quite different from the IE interpretation, it had more to do with special divine favor, quest spells, and domain building sorts of things.

    Not that there's anything wrong with Bioware coming up with something, but it's very different from anything I've ever seen in PNP.

    jackjackFardragonelminster
  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 393
    And yet, still closer than Fardragon's misinterpretation...

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    RAM021 said:

    And yet, still closer than Fardragon's misinterpretation...

    Where's the misinterpretation? 2E was designed for play in levels 1 to 10. After that it quickly fell apart as demihumans hit level caps, mages became gods and fighters continued to do nothing but go whack whack whack.

    jackjackFardragonelminster
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    I think it works pretty well into the mid-teens. But beyond that the characters are pretty earth shakingly powerful. Even a fighter, will generally have the sort of resources; magic items, allies, etc. that they are pretty amazing. All without HLAs.
    The most powerful character I ever played was a (2E) paladin in his upper teens. But that was game breaking enough, the DM would only let him "out" for special adventures. The rest of the time he was busy with "king" sort of stuff.

    jackjackelminster
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited November 2014
    I remember one (2nd edition) game where a 14th level druid (with some preparation) took out and advancing army, lead by a Pit Fiend, almost single handedly.

    There is nothing in IWD that qualifies as a "high level campaign" anyway. A couple of middle-management demons and devils, and a fairly lack-lustre dragon. Marleths and Pit Fiends are trash mobs in a high level campaign.

  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 393
    Wowo said:

    Where's the misinterpretation?

    The following is not merely a misrepresentation, it is blatantly false.
    Fardragon said:

    You mean the 2nd edition PnP rules that don't have HLAs and assume characters will retire before they reach level 20?

    Wowo said:

    2E was designed for play in levels 1 to 10. After that it quickly fell apart as demihumans hit level caps, mages became gods and fighters continued to do nothing but go whack whack whack.

    Not only is there a rulebook for high level play that granted special abilities above 20th level - abilities like:
    All-round Attack (Whirlwind)
    Bravery (Resist Magic)
    Death Blow
    Frighten/Challenge (War Cry)
    Hardiness
    10th Power Spells
    Quest Spell Access
    Improved Scroll Use/Magic Item Use (UAI)
    Item Creation (Alchemy/Scribe Scrolls)
    Classify Traps (Traps)
    Evasion
    Improvised Attack (Assassination)
    Sense Danger (Avoid Death)

    But even ignoring that, the remaining statements are simply not supported by facts. The basic rulebooks provide for level 20 as a minimum without stipulating any maximum; they also provide for numerous ways to surpass the so-called demihuman level caps - and the High Level Campaigns book provides for even more.

    Just as in BG2/ToB/IWD, PnP high mages are quite powerful but they are not gods, nor do Fighters only 'whack'. As for whether IWD is a "high level campaign" or not, although there is certainly personal interpretation involved, the rulebook stipulates that any character above 10th level is considered high-level.

  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 393
    atcDave said:

    High Levels Campaigns was an optional book.

    But an official book nonetheless - and one that deals with characters above 20th level, which would be the point of the discussion.

    More than disproves the "no HLA in 2nd Edition" nonsense.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    RAM021 said:

    atcDave said:

    High Levels Campaigns was an optional book.

    But an official book nonetheless - and one that deals with characters above 20th level, which would be the point of the discussion.

    More than disproves the "no HLA in 2nd Edition" nonsense.
    A late addition book that no one I know ever used. A book that make it quite clear what a "high level campaign" is, and IWD does not qualify. A level 15 foe with inflated hit points is still level 15. ToB is a high level campagn - it features a protagonist who is more than half way to becoming a god. A book that gives high level characters abilities that are quite different to ToB, aquired in a different way, and are largely focused on empire building.

    As an excuse for hacking your characters to make them uber-powerful, it's pretty feeble.

    Just admit you like to play the game with ridicoulously overpowered characters and move on.

    jackjackRedrakeCaptRory
  • RAM021RAM021 Member Posts: 393
    Fardragon said:

    A late addition book that no one I know ever used.

    Whether you or even anyone you know used it is irrelevant. You yourself claimed it did not exist:
    Fardragon said:

    You mean the 2nd edition PnP rules that don't have HLAs and assume characters will retire before they reach level 20?

    So did you lie or were you merely ignorant?
    Fardragon said:

    A book that make it quite clear what a "high level campaign" is, and IWD does not qualify. A level 15 foe with inflated hit points is still level 15.

    Indeed, High Level Campaigns defines 10th level and above as high level, so yes that lvl15 for with inflated HP is still 15th and still high level acording to the rules.
    Fardragon said:

    A book that gives high level characters abilities that are quite different to ToB, aquired in a different way, and are largely focused on empire building.

    Ignorance or more lies? It is hard to determine if you are making things up to deliberately obfuscate the issue or if you really do not know. Either way reflects poorly upon you.
    Fardragon said:

    Just admit you like to play the game with ridicoulously overpowered characters and move on.

    We do enjoy playing with powerful characters, but if you had any reading comprehension you would know we are not the one doing it. We are merely pointing out how wrong and bad at trolling you are.

    kensai
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,248
    Why don't we get back on topic?

    elminsterJuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,807
    Dear participants of the thread!

    I strongly suggest you stay on topic, please. The OP has asked for your advice on what weapons should dual-wielders concentrate in IWDEE.

    So, please, no further talking about whether modding is legitimate or not, whether or not high-level characters were considered in PnP, as well as other not-OP related stuff.

    Shikaojackjackelminster
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    I admit to having forgotten about the existance of the High Level Campaign's source book. Given that I looked through it in a shop around 25 years ago and rejected it as cheese for munchkins, I don't think that is very surprising. Certainly, from what I remember, it featured spells that took weeks to cast, stuff on empire building and divine accention (although I might be confusing that with the 3rd edition book).

    Don't think anyone objects to modding the game any way you like. The disagreement is that playing with HLAs added is somehow more "correct" than playing the game as released, and that they add anything to the game apart from setting the difficulty of HoF mode to "trivial". Certainly, if you included every obscure soucebook and dragon article ever published, you could include everything imaginable from freezing to death to space ships.

    jackjack
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    In answer to the OP: unless you plan to cheat and include HLAs then Two Weapon Fighting Style with an offhand speed weapon is the way to go.

    Your options for speed weapons are (in order that they can be acquired I think):
    1. Fast Flail +2 (random)
    2. Bastard Sword of Action +1 (random)
    3. Valiant Scimitar +2
    HoW:
    4. Longsword of Action +4
    5. Fast Flail +2
    ToL:
    6. Longsword of Action +4

    My kensage was eventually relegated to the Bastard Sword of Action +1 as my Swashbuckler/Mage got both longswords of action, Kensei/druid gets Valiant (eventually) and PriestoL/Fighter and Kensei/Cleric get a Fast Flail each. Ymmv.

    There is also a Ring of Reckless Action which grants +1 APR. Not sure if it stacks with a fast weapon.

    For mainhand I can recommend Morningstar, Axe, Longsword, Mace ... Others mention Hammer but that proficiency has thus far been a complete disappointment for me.

    JuliusBorisov
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