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I Need Good Advices

PainisCupcakePainisCupcake Member Posts: 10
I have some questions for you guys . But first of all who would win these fights and why ?

1) Kangaxx vs Superman
2) Irenicus vs Loki ( in comics )
3) Keldorn ( Carsomyr +6 ) vs King Arthur ( Excalibur )
4) Sarevok vs Arthas
5) Edwin vs Khadgar
6) Your avarage lich in D&D vs A lich in Warcraft
7) Minsc ( 19 str after rescuing Boo ) vs Grom Hellscream
8) Noober vs Neeber
9) Solar vs Tyrael
10) Avatar of Sargeras vs Demogorgon ( himself )
11) D&D Vampire vs Volkihar Vampire ( master vampire but not lord + fight happens at night )
12) Vivec ( on his peak ) vs any D&D level 30 mage ( but no time stop )
13) Elminster ( Time of Troubles ) vs Medivh ( as guardian )
14) Drizzt vs Divayth Fyr
15) Shadow Dragon vs Durnehviir
16) Kerghan vs Edwin
17) Elminster vs White Gandalf
18) The Five Bhaalspawn vs Sauron ( 3rd Era , with ring of power )
19) Aegwynn ( before giving birth to Medivh , post Sargeras fight ) vs Amelyssan ( pocket universe )

Will Protection from Normal Weapons protect you from guns ? Negative Plane Protection would make you immune to smoke's bad effects ? Oh by the way can cleric's heal spell restore damaged or lost organs ?

Also I'm playing human pure generalist wizard , how good is it ? I still dont quite understand how multi class / dual class works this is why my choice was single class . I need mage advices on my next playthrough .
Post edited by PainisCupcake on
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Comments

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    1-Superman is known to be vulnerable to magic and spells. So Kangax in its demilich form will imprison him with no trouble. Unless Superman's super strength count as +4 weapons so he can crush the demilich:even then, with demilich's damage resistance, it is unlikely that Supes can do enough damage quickly enough even with the 25 strength he has.
    2-Loki is a god, right? Irenicus tries to become a god and fails. Go figure.
    3-It depends on the exact nature of Excalibur, if it is a holy avenger sword like Carsomyr then it depends on the levels of Keldorn and King Arthur. Keldorn does not have a set level, being a npc character that can join the party.

    I would argue that yes, normal bullets fired from a normal gun would be considered a normal weapon:in the movies normal bullets are ineffective against vampires, ghosts, and werewolves. Silver, blessed, and annointed bullets are effective, however.

    A single classed mage is okay. You will become the strongest character past 3 million xp points, as all maged tend to do.

    Multi class characters progress in two or more classes at the same time. But they divide xp between those classes. At higher lvls this slows their level progression a lot. A pure mage reaches lvl 18 at 3 million xp:lvl 18 is the turning point for a mage as mages gain access to game changing abilities and spells at that level. A multi class fighter/mage, cleric/mage or thief/mage will require 6 million xp for its mage lvls to reach 18:double the amount of time! However, the multi class character will have the other class abilities and gain the other class's high level abilities as well.

    Dual classing allows you a limited access to your first class's abilities while not limiting your progress in the second class. Take a fighter dualled into a mage:dualled at lvl 9 or such, the xp he has invested in the fighter classes will be very minimal. Thus he can reach the crucial mage lvl 18 with no problem. He will have fighter exceptional strength, weapon mastery and a lot of more hit points over the regular mage. Also if you choose a kit like berserker or kensai he will have some neat tricks/bonuses as well. He will not gain fighter high level abilities. He will only gain mage high level abilities. A multi fighter/mage will gain both fighter and mage high level abilities but since he continues to divide his xp between two classes, reaching lvl 18 in magehood will be very difficult for the multi class character.
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,027
    4) @Anduin vs FF5 ?

    If you are interested in playing a human mage with no specialisation then please think about dual-classing your charname.
    You can also play a wild mage. This class/kit has no true specialisation and it benefits from the additional spell per level that all the specialists get.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    1) Kangaxx, definitely. Superman'll just get imprisoned.

    2) Are we talking supervillain-Loki or god-Loki? Supervillain-Loki would probably lose to Irenicus, since he doesn't really demonstrate world-shattering combat powers. God-Loki is a god, and at Ragnarok he double-kills Heimdall, the god the gods thought was a tough enough dude to guard the entrance to their realm. It's reasonable to imagine a rough equivalence between Heimdall and Faerun's Helm. Now, we know that Helm's avatar beat Demogorgon, the real Helm is stronger than his avatar, and Demogorgon is more powerful than Irenicus. Ergo, Helm is substantially more powerful than Irenicus, so god-Loki would easily win.

    3) Again, I have to ask which King Arthur we're talking about. There's a few too many to list, so I'll talk in generalities. First, Excalibur is a sword of real legend and power, a weapon of singular quality. Carsomyr would be, at best, its equal. Second, in most versions, Excalibur's sheath confers additional defensive benefits, ranging from preventing Arthur from bleeding to making him unable to be cut to conferring complete and total invulnerability. Obviously if it's the last one, Arthur just wins outright. Otherwise, I'd say my money's on Keldorn. By the end of Baldur's Gate, Keldorn's about level 30, which is just obscenely high level. Arthur, while no pushover, is not generally one of the strongest knights at his table. That honor is typically reserved for knights like Gawain, Lancelot, and Galahad. Even if Arthur has better equipment (which is debatable, since Keldorn tends to have more than just his sword), Keldorn is just too high level to lose that fight in most versions.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    edited February 2015
    Carsomyr is supposed to be a pretty special Holy Avenger actually, especially with a whopping +6 fully enhanced. Thats a God-level weapon, beyond normal artifact territory (...especially as 'artifact' in 2nd Ed universally seems to mean 'Evil ****ing Death Trap, Enjoy, Ignorant Adventurers!', and are included to make life crummier for PCs. Ever look up the Ring of Gax? It sucks. Bad. It also will kill you) even, so it can probably surpass Excalibur.

    Arthur is lvl 18 Paladin in Deities and Demigods iirc, no clue where the hell they got their Arthur from though. He isn't normally anywhere near Paladin territory, though often 'pretty decent for a royal'.

    Kangax will have a tooth with a tiny, eternally screaming Superman inside, to keep his abandoned skull company.

    Loki the God would just destroy Irenicus, but Loki the Comic Book dude would get his butt handed to him. Irenicus makes the likes of Dr. Strange and Mandarin look like Girl Scouts playing with a Magic 8-ball.
    Post edited by DreadKhan on
  • PainisCupcakePainisCupcake Member Posts: 10
    @Jarrakul Yeah sorry I was talking about Loki in comics. Also added more characters to debate .
    @Musigny I'm already on Chapter 6 with single class generalist human mage , but yours will be my choice on another playthrough.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Oooo, these are fun.

    4) Sarevok vs Arthas
    Assuming Arthas post-Frozen Throne, Arthas. Sarevok is pretty tough, but simply put, he's no Lich King. Pre-Frozen Throne, my money's on Arthas if he has his army, Sarevok otherwise. Sarevok is definitely smarter and sneakier, so he'll do better in individual conflicts, but even commanded by a tactical genius, the Iron Throne wouldn't fare well against the Scourge.

    5) Edwin vs Khadgar
    Hm. Good question, and frankly hard to assess. We might propose a rough equivalence between Khadgar and Elminster, in which case we know Khadgar wins. I'm not sure how happy I am with that equivalence, though, and my gut reaction is that Edwin and Khadgar would be pretty even.

    6) Your avarage lich in D&D vs A lich in Warcraft
    The D&D lich, because warcraft liches don't have anything to strip spell protections, and D&D spell protections are insanely strong.

    7) Minsc ( 19 str after rescuing Boo ) vs Grom Hellscream
    Grom Hellscream killed Mannoroth, essentially one-on-one. Yeah, sure, he died doing it, but somehow I don't see Minsc managing the same. Mannoroth also isn't the only demigod Hellscream killed, and depending on the rules of the fight, he's got the entire Warsong Clan to back him up. I like Minsc as much as the next guy, but I can't see this being anything but one-sided.

    8) Noober vs Neeber
    Neeber. Those sling bullets +2 would come in pretty handy.

    9) Solar vs Tyrael
    Assuming D2 Tyrael (because whatever you think of D3 Tyrael as a character, he's clearly not that strong), then Tyrael. Solars are important, but they're not literally the rulers of the heavens (that'd be the Throne Archons or their equivalents on other planes). Tyrael, meanwhile, is the strongest warrior on the Angiris Council. So I'd have to go with Tyrael.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    The ACTUAL Iron Throne is a pretty big deal, but Sarevok's grand accomplishment was commandeering the Baldur's Gate chapter, not entire organization.

    Warcraft?? really? Also, Minsc has a very, very useful set of allies, IE Rashemens Berserker Lodges, and possibly the Witches. They have repeatedly trounced Thay, so there aren't many who can even come close.

    You know how absurdly Epic the gear a Solar has is, right? in 3.0, its what, a 5m gp sword STANDARD? Regarding the issue of Celestial rankings, Archons are under Zaphkial and the Hebdomad (LG), Talisid and the 5 are in charge of Guardinals (NG), while Eladrin are loosely ruled by Morwel and whomever is nailing her presently (CG, 2nd rank is her consort lol). Throne Archons are small potatoes compared to those.
  • SertoriusSertorius Member Posts: 172
    edited February 2015
    3) Keldorn ( Carsomyr +6 ) vs King Arthur ( Excalibur )

    Assuming Excalibur would work against a paladin, it would be a win for Arthur, mainly because Excalibur also comes with an enchanted scabbard, which makes the wearer immune to slashing damage and some other stuff. Also, Excalibur had a sharpness enchant, which (if memory serves) means a roll of 18-20 on a d20 would result in a random severed limb.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Sertorius said:

    3) Keldorn ( Carsomyr +6 ) vs King Arthur ( Excalibur )

    Assuming Excalibur would work against a paladin, it would be a win for Arthur, mainly because Excalibur also comes with an enchanted scabbard, which makes the wearer immune to slashing damage and some other stuff. Also, Excalibur had a sharpness enchant, which (if memory serves) means a roll of 18-20 on a d20 would result in a random severed limb.

    Which is great, but can't you sunder Excalibur with a +6 sword? I would need to look up exact rules for attacking a weapon.
  • SertoriusSertorius Member Posts: 172
    I guess sunder would be possible, but still quite difficult. Excalibur is still a +5 weapon. Also, even if you were successful, Arthur would still be immune to the damage caused by Carsomyr.
  • wubblewubble Member Posts: 3,156
    I'm fairly certain Arthur and Keldorn would never end up fighting, as far as I can remember the only good person Arthur fights is Lancelot (not sure as my memory is hazy) and it's not like Keldorn is gonna end up banging Guinevere.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    wubble said:

    it's not like Keldorn is gonna end up banging Guinevere.

    What about the other way round? Keldorn's wife does have a history, you know...
  • pixie359pixie359 Member Posts: 251
    wubble said:

    I'm fairly certain Arthur and Keldorn would never end up fighting, as far as I can remember the only good person Arthur fights is Lancelot (not sure as my memory is hazy) and it's not like Keldorn is gonna end up banging Guinevere.

    I agree, there are some realism issues here.
  • CrowseyeCrowseye Member Posts: 28
    There was a 3e Warcraft RPG that was officially licensed by WotC before going d20/OGL. Warcraft's warrior types would be legends in the Forgotten Realms, but the mortal magic users are somewhat toned down. Edwin would have a far better chance against Khadgar than Minsc against Grom, for sure.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Sertorius said:

    I guess sunder would be possible, but still quite difficult. Excalibur is still a +5 weapon. Also, even if you were successful, Arthur would still be immune to the damage caused by Carsomyr.

    In PnP, iirc you could also stab/club (some two-handed swords have no point) for much lower, non-slashing damage. Which would make things tedious enough conversation would end the fight. Arthur doesn't kill Pelinor, who is a much better fighter than him. Hard to see Keldorn chosing to Fall over this after so many years!
  • PainisCupcakePainisCupcake Member Posts: 10
    @Jarrakul , do we really know Khadgar is stronger than Elminster I thought the other way was true ? Also yes its Death Kinght Arthas .
    @wubble what if Keldorn's wife had sex with Arthur and he learns it ? Then they may fight .

    Added more characters to debate
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    I don't mean to say that Khadgar is stronger than Elminster. I'm simply proposing an equivalence between the two, and then noting that Elminster is stronger than Edwin (as we know from Edwin's epilogue). Then, if Khadgar and Elminster are in fact equivalent (a debatable claim), Khadgar is logically stronger than Edwin. It goes as follows:

    K = El
    El > Ed
    therefore
    K > Ed
  • PainisCupcakePainisCupcake Member Posts: 10
    @Jarrakul oh you are right . What do you think about new characters I've added to list . Some of them are intresting dont you think ?
  • SanxisSanxis Member Posts: 12
    16) Kerghan vs Edwin

    If I remember correctly , Kerghan turns into bone dragon ( or whatever it is ) when you fight him in the void and he can only be killed by Vendigroth Device or Kryggird's Falchion . Also he can regenerate his health in a protective shell when badly hurt . That means Edwin will just waste spells. So Kerghan wins .
  • wubblewubble Member Posts: 3,156
    Elminster vs white Gandalf I'm not sure. Elminster has more offensive power but Gandalf survives the fall with the Balrog so he's obviously really durable. I reckon if the battle was at range Elminster would win but if Gandalf could get close enough to use Glamdring he'd be in with a chance
  • reap_iireap_ii Member Posts: 43
    I think everyone knows Chuck Norris wins vs all here
  • PainisCupcakePainisCupcake Member Posts: 10
    edited February 2015
    So you are saying Chuck Norris strikes as +6 weapon ?
  • OneAngryMushroomOneAngryMushroom Member Posts: 564
    1) Kangaxx vs Superman: Kangaxx: Superman is weak to magic and Kangaxx will just spam Imprisonment until Supes either gives up or dies. Does kangaxx even have any other spells than Imprisonment?

    3) Keldorn ( Carsomyr +6 ) vs King Arthur ( Excalibur ) : Wouldn't happen. They're both lawful good.

    8) Noober vs Neeber: Everyone loses

    9) Solar vs Tyrael: see Number 3

    11) D&D Vampire vs Volkihar Vampire: D&D Hands down, Combination of super stats, Level Drain, and mistform would annihilate the Skyrim Vampires

    12) Vivec vs any D&D level 30 mage: Morrowind sucks... IMHO

    15) Shadow Dragon vs Durnehviir: Durnehviir on account that he technically can't die.

    16) Kerghan vs Edwin: Are you serious?

    17) Elminster vs White Gandalf: Hard to say on account that Gandalf's powers aren't really well defined. We have Elminster stated out right in a book with pretty pictures but Gandalf's powers trend more towards the obscure, heck half the time people aren't even aware of Gandalf's magic. Considering they both have divine help and are considered to be the best of the best I'm going to call it a draw.

    18) The Five Bhaalspawn vs Sauron (3rd Era , with ring of power) Depends on if Illesera can pickpocket the ring off of Sauron.
  • matricematrice Member Posts: 86

    I have some questions for you guys . But first of all who would win these fights and why ?

    1) Kangaxx vs Superman
    Kangaxx, not really hard to banish superman (happened several time !)
    2) Irenicus vs Loki ( in comics )
    Irenicus, loki in comics is just about being elusiv
    3) Keldorn ( Carsomyr +6 ) vs King Arthur ( Excalibur )
    There's just one sword stronger than excalibur (don't remember the name, but it's not carsomyr) In addition, arthur is not exactly evil.
    4) Sarevok vs Arthas
    Dipend which arthas, before or after being undead
    6) Your avarage lich in D&D vs A lich in Warcraft
    lich in D&D. Lich in war are freaking weak.
    7) Minsc ( 19 str after rescuing Boo ) vs Grom Hellscream
    Minsc, he can even destroy unbreakable cage, and Grom is not elusive enough to dodge his attack
    8) Noober vs Neeber
    Noober, i achieved neeber "quest" without needing to read about it, countrary to noober.
    9) Solar vs Tyrael
    Solar, Tyrael is a useless shit
    10) Avatar of Sargeras vs Demogorgon ( himself )
    Demogorgon ofc, he cann't even die in first place
    13) Elminster ( Time of Troubles ) vs Medivh ( as guardian )
    Elminster is useless
    17) Elminster vs White Gandalf
    Elminster is useless (not that gandalf is that strong himself, mb a draw of unusefullness)
    18) The Five Bhaalspawn vs Sauron ( 3rd Era , with ring of power )
    Baltazaar alone kick sauron's ass easy, not to mention the unkillable yaga.
    19) Aegwynn ( before giving birth to Medivh , post Sargeras fight ) vs Amelyssan ( pocket universe )
    Amelyssan is trash, even modded

    Will Protection from Normal Weapons protect you from guns ?
    There's no magic in gun, so yes. (I'm tented to say no since you would obviously casted a protection from magic weapon before this :p)
    Negative Plane Protection would make you immune to smoke's bad effects ?
    Nope
    Oh by the way can cleric's heal spell restore damaged or lost organs ?
    Yup, as long as overhaul the target is valid target for ressurection.

    Also I'm playing human pure generalist wizard , how good is it ? I still dont quite understand how multi class / dual class works this is why my choice was single class . I need mage advices on my next playthrough .
    It suck, you lose so much compare to abjurer (who's only really loosing identify and true sight, one being barely usefull, and the second being available for cleric anyway.
    If you really don't want to lose some spell, then just play entropist, the strongest character in the whole game.
    If it's just about casting spell no matter what, fighter 9 dualed into mage is better, since you will not loosing spell, and will have more hp.

    Generally speaking no mage are stronger than part fighter into mage

  • SanxisSanxis Member Posts: 12
    edited February 2015
    @OneAngryMushroom your opinion on 18 made me laugh :D , We know that he made stupid mistakes in the past like trying to grab Isildur in the middle of battle with his ring equipped hand . So I'm pretty sure Illesara can steal the ring .

  • YannirYannir Member Posts: 595
    17. Elminster vs. Gandalf - On this one I would have to say Gandalf wins. He is Maiar, who in Tolkien's world are equal to demigods. They are also immortal. When he was fighting that Balrog, he wouldn't have actually died, his spirit just would have returned to Valinor and taken his true form.

    Now Sauron is also a demigod because he is Maiar as well but Sauron is killed because he was stupid enough to put most of his essence into a powerful yet destructible ring. A risk that didn't pay off. Sauron's been slain several times in the past but his spirit always returned to pose a new threat.
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    edited February 2015
    Gandalf without any restrictions? Surely he could win.

    Gandalf as he appeared in LotR? Not so much.

    Also, the question is about winning so the fact that he is essentially demigod is irrelevant. That he would return to Valinor doesn't change the fact that he had to lose the fight to get there.

    It's really incomparable because these are vastly different worlds when it comes to the level of magic. One world had flying cities, mages casting spells that killed hundreds if not thousands, trying to steal gods essence and raining down fire and lightning storms. Summoning demons, devils and angelic being to do their bidding and traveling via teleportation, flying on their own accord, changing planes of existence and casually doing exactly what the One Ring did for Frodo - turning invisible.

    The other has a few elderly people whose powers are specifically limited to living extremely long, being unnaturaly spry for their look and casting some basic nature, light and fire spells.

    Imagine how LotR would look like if we swapped Gandalf with Elminster who could tap fully to his 29th level wizard potential.

    I think that it is some kind of reverence to Tolkien's work and his rich world that makes people root for Gandalf but really, it's not hard to write a more powerful wizard than him and there are plenty of examples in otherwise worse fantasy literature.
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    wubble said:

    I'm fairly certain Arthur and Keldorn would never end up fighting, as far as I can remember the only good person Arthur fights is Lancelot (not sure as my memory is hazy) and it's not like Keldorn is gonna end up banging Guinevere.

    Actually, if you go with Monmouth, Malory and other medieval authors, Arthur (as befits a knight of courage and prowess) is eager to accept a challenge and won't shun a fight, and neither should a knight like Keldorn. However, both of them being honourable men, they would not *kill* each other, but take the opponent prisoner once he concedes defeat (and likely become friends afterwards). So the ultimate outcome of an Arthur vs. Keldorn battle would probably be Keldorn joining the Round Table in any case.

    As for the actual fight, It'd depend on the age of Arthur, I guess. Keldorn only appears as an older guy close to his retirement, so from a narrative point of view, he might be able to teach a young Arthur a few tricks, but I don't think he'd best the adult king at the hight of his strength and prowess.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited March 2015
    Vivec loses to the D&D mage. D&D mages might not deal as much raw damage as those of other universes, but they have really incredible defenses, and their powers are much more complicated than simply blowing stuff up. How do you get past Spell Turning without Pierce Magic? How do you shield yourself from Imprisonment without spell protections?
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    Well, if we use Elder Scrolls system of fighting, you shield yourself by sidestepping the spell projectile ;)
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