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Throne of Bhaal.

SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
edited February 2015 in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
I had a debate in another thread about this, so i come to ask how many of you regularly play Throne of Bhaal and how many times have you completed it compared to SoA? Do you enjoy Throne of Bhaal?

I've completed SoA well over 40 times and I've completed ToB around 8-9. The only times I've completed ToB were to finish a trilogy no-reload run as i actually don't enjoy it, and most of the time have to force myself through it.

What about you?

Comments

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Most people consider Throne of Bhaal to be the weakest of the trilogy, and I agree. There aren't quite as many ways to play the game as there are in BG1 and BG2, and the new items and abilities of ToB tend to involve bigger numbers rather than new tricks, the notable exception being thief HLAs.

    I still enjoy it. It's wild and crazy and ridiculous, but it's fun. But I play Shadows of Amn much more often.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    I have never ever completed ToB till the end. I have never ever seen the epilogues.

    Yep, this is how it is for me, even after all these years, and even after all my love for BG.

    On the contrast, the amount of my playthroughs in SoA is very high. But of course, BG1 still wins it all for me.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    I like ToB. I finish it whenever I can but I often get distracted by various things like other playthroughs and other games before I get there or finish it. The BG series is a very long one requiring lots of play time to finish and my often fickle interests can prove to be a curse that prevents me from finishing. Still I wouldn't even dream of saying a run is complete until I play from Candlekeep to the actual Throne of Bhaal.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited February 2015
    I'm not really a fan. It comes across to me as the least balanced aspect of the series. Plus the story line is not particularly compelling, the story is pretty short, and (no doubt as a result) the dialogue between characters is more limited.

    On a plus note Imoen actually has dialogue with your party members in it, so that is something.
    Post edited by elminster on
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,282
    It's a little underwhelming. I believe it was originally supposed to be a much bigger game, but ended up as an expansion instead and what we ended up with was a cut down and quite rushed final chapter. I don't think it's all terrible, but could have been so much more and better.
  • wubblewubble Member Posts: 3,156
    I've only finished SoA once and I went through ToB as well. I rather enjoyed it but that could be because I had ascension installed. I still shudder at the thought of facing Improved Abazigal again.
  • MoradinMoradin Member Posts: 372
    edited February 2015
    I played it less than SoA, but now if I start a SoA walkthrough, I cannot consider it complete without ToB.
    As @Crowseye said, BG2= SoA + ToB for me.

    Mind you, I can see the game has flaws, but in my opinion some of these flaws stand out in light of SoA. It's not easy to be a sequel to a perfect game.
    Post edited by Moradin on
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    bengoshi said:

    I have never ever completed ToB till the end. I have never ever seen the epilogues.

    Yep, this is how it is for me, even after all these years, and even after all my love for BG.

    On the contrast, the amount of my playthroughs in SoA is very high. But of course, BG1 still wins it all for me.

    This is me! I have a Blackguard at the fire giant place in ToB and that's the farthest I've gotten XD

    I've played BG1 at least 8-9 times and BG2 once as a Blackguard through SoA and a bard halfway through it.

    I really should skip BG1 some time and just go straight to BG2.

    But BG2 doesn't have Alora.

    I LOVE YOU, ALORA!

  • SayenSayen Member Posts: 18
    To me, it's more that it's less than the sum of its parts. I think Abazigal's and Sendai's areas are cool dungeons, there are a couple of other fun fights, and it's kinda cool to play around for a little while with all the things you can do with an epic-level party. But the storyline is pretty linear, and as a result I often feel like the game is railroading me in a way that I didn't in the first two games.

    If I think of it as more of an expansion pack than a full game in its own right, then I'm happy with it. If I think of it as a full game, I still enjoy it but I am a little disappointed in what it could have been.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    One of the main reasons why ToB feels linear to me is because I always complete Watcher's Keep in SoA, and Watcher's Keep is the one (really) big side quest of ToB.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited February 2015
    semiticgod said:

    One of the main reasons why ToB feels linear to me is because I always complete Watcher's Keep in SoA, and Watcher's Keep is the one (really) big side quest of ToB.

    Couldn't agree more. I feel that Watcher's Keep is the best part of ToB, and I'm always doing it in SoA. I can see the developers wanting Watcher's Keep to be a way to break the linearity of the game, but if you do it in SoA then once you play ToB you'll be on a fast roller coaster ride with no way to get of before you're at the finish line.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    SionIV said:

    semiticgod said:

    One of the main reasons why ToB feels linear to me is because I always complete Watcher's Keep in SoA, and Watcher's Keep is the one (really) big side quest of ToB.

    Couldn't agree more. I feel that Watcher's Keep is the best part of ToB, and I'm always doing it in SoA. I can see the developers wanting Watcher's Keep to be a way to break the linearity of the game, but if you do it in SoA then once you play ToB you'll be on a fast roller coaster ride with no way to get of before you're at the finish line.
    I really need to play more BG2. I haven't even done Watcher's Keep XD
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Vallmyr said:

    SionIV said:

    semiticgod said:

    One of the main reasons why ToB feels linear to me is because I always complete Watcher's Keep in SoA, and Watcher's Keep is the one (really) big side quest of ToB.

    Couldn't agree more. I feel that Watcher's Keep is the best part of ToB, and I'm always doing it in SoA. I can see the developers wanting Watcher's Keep to be a way to break the linearity of the game, but if you do it in SoA then once you play ToB you'll be on a fast roller coaster ride with no way to get of before you're at the finish line.
    I really need to play more BG2. I haven't even done Watcher's Keep XD
    It's an awesome dungeon, but just be prepared for a difficulty jump. It's ToB content so while the first two levels are decently easy, the later ones will be very, VERY hard if you're not prepared or know the fights.
  • dashteacupdashteacup Member Posts: 52
    I always do ToB in a playthrough. The story doesn't feel complete without it. I don't like it as much as SoA or BG1 though.
  • MhamzaMhamza Member Posts: 228
    I always try to complete ToB in a playthrough as I think it's underrated. It's weaker than BG1 and SOA but it still has a lot to offer and wraps up the saga nicely.
  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    edited February 2015
    I've completed BG1 dozens of time, SOA maybe 10 times, TOB maybe 5.

    The thing is I mostly play solo and when i reach HLA levels, the game becomes too easy, so I tend to give up by boredom in the underdark...

    TOB is not so good (not terribly bad either) but i don't really like the end of SOA (too linear) either.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    edited February 2015
    I'm playing through it at the moment. I found the Cyric encounter to be pretty interesting but other than that its pretty dull.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    mumumomo said:

    I've completed BG1 dozens of time, SOA maybe 10 times, TOB maybe 5.

    The thing is I mostly play solo and when i reach HLA levels, the game becomes too easy, so I tend to give up by boredom in the underdark...

    TOB is not so good (not terribly bad either) but i don't really like the end of SOA (too linear) either.

    Try soloing BG2 without leveling up after the old SoA cap. SoA wasn't balanced for HLAs, so of course they'll make the play wonky. ToB would be pretty hard without using HLAs though.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 877
    If I make it to the end of SoA, I usually try to finish up ToB as well. It sometimes does feel like a grind, though.
    I normally save Watcher's Keep for ToB, which makes it less linear and more interesting. And I have to say that I enjoy encountering Saemon Havarian again (yeah, he's one of my favourite NPCs).
    Still, it's the weakest part of the series.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @DreadKhan @mumumomo: Beat SoA with the SoA XP cap is indeed quite difficult with a solo character. I once did that involuntarily. When I uninstalled BG2 and was only able to reinstall SoA, I played through the game as a solo Avenger. Druids are more limited by the SoA XP cap than any other class, but even then, a 2.95 million XP solo character is quite viable in SoA.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    semiticgod said:

    @DreadKhan @mumumomo: Beat SoA with the SoA XP cap is indeed quite difficult with a solo character. I once did that involuntarily. When I uninstalled BG2 and was only able to reinstall SoA, I played through the game as a solo Avenger. Druids are more limited by the SoA XP cap than any other class, but even then, a 2.95 million XP solo character is quite viable in SoA.

    Viable is key I think... it would change the balance immensely though, and increase the challenge especially for everything after you hit the cap, when with ToB you'd get a huge spike in power. Moreso with Druids of course!
  • EnterHaerDalisEnterHaerDalis Member Posts: 813
    Just had a random thought

    The BG series is nearly comparable to the Fable series

    The first BG and Fable were masterpieces

    The second BG and Fable are up for debate, although SoA is obviously awesome

    ToB and Fable 3 are almost unanimously the weakest out of the trilogies


  • wubblewubble Member Posts: 3,156
    EnterHaerDalis said:

    Just had a random thought

    The BG series is nearly comparable to the Fable series

    The first BG and Fable were masterpieces

    The second BG and Fable are up for debate, although SoA is obviously awesome

    ToB and Fable 3 are almost unanimously the weakest out of the trilogies


    The same could be said for many trilogies.
  • simplessimples Member Posts: 540
    watcher's keep has a decent storyline and "puzzles". even though it is very linear, the lore and variation in battles and opponents keeps you going.
    during the rest of tob, i'm basically just dragon's breath-ing everything or getting planetars to kill things, cause fighting the same opponent time after time after time just gets tedious
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