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Anyone out there share this feeling?(spoilers)

BubblesBubbles Member Posts: 589
Whenever I play BG2 or the EE version, I always feel obligated to have Imoene in my party.
I dunno why, for some strange reason (maybe is the storyline?), I can't make myself to drop her.

I can drop Jaheira as I really don't like her personality, Minsc is too noisy (although cute n funny but if you click on him he shouts alot).

Anyone share this Imoene feeling out there?

Post edited by Bubbles on
semiticgodDexterkillerrabbitlolienArdulAerakar
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Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,972
    Heh, it's quite the opposite for me. There're many reasons in my case, among them:

    - when I come for her in the Spellhold, my party is already set and those who are in the party cannot be dropped because:
    -- they're higher level, have spells learned and ablities chosen as I wished
    -- they're an integral part of the playthrough because of all those quests they went through in the chapters 2 and 3

    - Imoen was nearly silent in BG1, and lost in comparison with other thieves there, and I didn't take her in my BG1 party because of that reason. And I play BG2 only with characters who went though BG1 and thus I get used to not having Imoen in the party

    - the content in SoA for Imoen with the party is not enough. In ToB with the Ascension mod, yes, but in SoA, it's not enough

    - I find other characters better suited for my needs (better thief, better mages)

    - I adore Yoshimo and can't accept the original developers decided it's actually Yoshimo who should die, and not Imoen

    - Add to that Imoen was a late addition to nearly fully done BG1, and you get my understanding and views on Imoen

    Skatankillerrabbitlolien
  • BubblesBubbles Member Posts: 589
    @Dee, your favorite party happens to be mine too in many ways, love Jan ^^ as for Aerie, I can't make myself to drop her if I add her to party (the voice acting has an effect on me, sound so poor thing).
    Well currently I paused my run with the 5 EE NPCs for the reason of Imoene, still trying hard to convince myself to go spellhold then ditch Imoene..... arrgghhhh hate that decision (maybe I am too neutral good with alot of Lawful tendencies O_o).

    @bengoshi, I guess I can't drop Imoene for 1 reason, can't make myself to leave her behind in a dark place like spellhold (how I wish there could be a 7th slot every so often). For Yoshimo, I like his personality very much. I will often use tweak pack on him in BG2 non EE (I don't wanna messed up EE core files and get wierd bugs, frankly I still like patch version 1.2030 better than the current but they say cant reverse the patch and can't have a manual version of patch 1.2030 otherwise I would have uninstalled this game and re-download + manual patching).

    Blackravenkillerrabbit
  • ReticentReticent Member Posts: 116
    This may sound sort of strange, but I actually find I'm more inclined to play evil or at least evil leaning play throughs just because I don't want to deal with the mental gymnastics of rationalizing why I'm not taking Imoen with me at Spellhold.

  • BubblesBubbles Member Posts: 589
    @Reticent, well if I am evil inclined, I wouldn't even be bothered to go spellhold to get Imoene.
    Why waste time and take big risk of facing a host of Cowled Wizards? ^^ well,ok maybe for my missing taint I guess O_o

  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,564
    Imoen is the reason I turned to the dark side. I first played BG long before I had an internet connection, and I hadn't read any of the books, so I had absolutely no idea there was a 'canon' party. Initially I was just annoyed when BG foisted this irritating schoolgirl on me right from the start and got rid of her as soon as possible. Then in BG2, when I found out that I'm supposed drop everything to go and rescue someone I don't even like, I literally lost the plot because I don't like being railroaded. Consequently I never have Imoen in my party - just on principle.

    BlackravendustbubsyAerakar
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 593
    When I played with a party, yes, Imoen was integral for me too and was always in the party through the entire saga while she was available.

    In BG1, Imoen, Kagain, Kivan and Viconia always seemed to become the core of my parties (the 6th slot was up for grabs, though I was partial to Shar-Teel dualled to a thief at level 3 so that Imoen could canonically dual to a mage at level 7).

    In BG2, it was always Imoen, Korgan and Viconia. The other 2 slots were generally between the likes of Nalia, Jan, Mazzy, Yoshimo and Sarevok.

    I can understand the canon rationale for Jaheira and Khalid, as Gorion's friends and your "guardians", but these 2 rarely made my parties. Especially playing no-reload, going straight to the FAI at level 1 and facing Tarnesh was not a particularly successful strategy; much easier to go to Beregost and High Hedge to recruit the powerhouses that are Kagain and Kivan, and then hand Tarnesh his backside.

    I don't think there's any good reason for Minsc and Dynaheir to be the other canon members, other than they are a pair of "good" (alignment) characters that the developers happened to choose.

    So my canon is that after BG1, my party disbanded (other than Imoen who was still with me). Meanwhile J&K independently got together with M&D and they were tracking my PC and Imoen cos they wanted to join our crew (they would have been told to do one) when Irenicus struck. So my PC will free J and M and tell them to go on their merry way while he and Imoen stick together.

    BlackravenlolienAerakar
  • BubblesBubbles Member Posts: 589
    @Jaheiras_Witness, the only time I put back Jaheira in the party is to do the Harpers' Stronghold quest to get that ring and do finish up Jaheira's curse to get some scrolls. Then I kick her out, can't stand it for someone whose husband just pass away, she straightaway came after my PC (doesn't sound morally right unless that is her way of the "Balance" x_x since she is a Harper after all O_o).
    I will only have Minsc in the party if I play UB mod in the old BG2.

    @dunbar, oh yeah I remember when I first play BG1 i have no idea of the plot too and this Imoene acting like some "cute" schoolgirl came after me. My first thought was, is she supposed to me my PC's secret admirer or childhood "girlfriend" that refused to get ditched? X_X

    lolien
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,581
    For roleplay reason I always bring Jaheira, Imoen and Minsc along with me out of Chateau Irenicus, and then I ditch them if I do not want them.
    As for Imoen, it depends on my playthrough, when I play a good playthrough I always make room for her before I go to Brynnlaw (except if I have Yoshimo of course) or play a permanent 5 member party with one member I pick to do his/her quest and then send him/her away.
    And when I want to pick Sarevok (which I hardly ever do) I just roleplay it as one of my party members who wishes to take his leave after the battle in Hell, thus willing to make room for Sarevok.
    If playing Evil (except lawful evil) or CN I just say I m going for Irenicus and I don't care about Imoen.

    lolien
  • BubblesBubbles Member Posts: 589
    @Arunsun, still pretty hard for me as she feels like a sister to my PC much like the way Luke Skywalker feels towards Princess Leia in Star Wars I guess.

  • PhooeyPhooey Member Posts: 17
    Its impossible for me to drop Imoen. It would make things so much easier, party formation wise but I just can't.

    Honestly its not just Imoen. My playthroughs almost always consist of the "canon" party. Minsc, Imoen, Aerie are always in the party. Ive gotten kind of tired of Jaheria but shes always in the party.

    Keldorn is too, but I always feel bad about keeping him from his family. I could role play him turning his wife in and dedicating himself to the PCs cause, but me as a real person have a hard time doing it. LOL

    killerrabbitlolienatcDave
  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    I never played without Imoen as i feel she's a core part of the story, but i really want to ditch her. Maybe someone can help me find the proper reasoning to take Jan all the way instead of her. The best i can come up with is, when i rescue her from Spellhold, i want to protect her from harm's way, she's been through too much already and she shouldn't have to fight anymore. But it still feels kinda wrong to just abandon her in a hostile lair on an dangerous island. Thoughts?

    Blackravenkillerrabbit
  • vishvish Member Posts: 49
    edited January 2016

    I never played without Imoen as i feel she's a core part of the story, but i really want to ditch her. Maybe someone can help me find the proper reasoning to take Jan all the way instead of her. The best i can come up with is, when i rescue her from Spellhold, i want to protect her from harm's way, she's been through too much already and she shouldn't have to fight anymore. But it still feels kinda wrong to just abandon her in a hostile lair on an dangerous island. Thoughts?

    Jan gets a lot of use out of his custom gear and both Mage+Thief HLAs. He can dispel any illusion spell at high levels with his spectacles+detect illusion thieving ability if you've leveled it. Imoen can learn ADHW/Necromancy spells while Jan can only use the scroll(s) once he gets UAI. Jan has a ton of more banter. Jan is always a permanent member in my groups because he's my main Thief and he's a good Mage. Dump a melee like Keldorn, Valygar, or go without Edwin or one less Cleric like Aerie/Viconia. Imoen is not power gamer friendly because she dualed too soon. A level 12 Imoen with skills maxed into locks+traps would have been a good thing, or give you the option to do it yourself.
    --- Granted "fixing" Imoen can be done in Shadowkeeper.

    BlackravenAerakar
  • AlexDeLargeAlexDeLarge Member Posts: 273
    Ah, you don't have to convince me that Jan is a better NPC from a PW gamer perspective, i know he is. The main reason i want to take him is so i can use Spike Traps in my No reload run. I just have a hard time letting go of Imoen, from a roleplaying perspective, that's all.

    semiticgodBlackravenlolien
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,646
    In my first runs I always had in the party Minsk and Jaheira, and always Imoen after spellhod. I had only SoA and no internet connection so I did not know what happened in BG1, Just the little clues that BG2 give so I barely knew that the 3 was my trusted companions in a previous adventure. In each run I took some of the other NPC's.
    The first run whithout immi, jah and minsk was a party of toons created by me in multiplayer and I really felt that something was wrong, I missed that old friends that I learned to know, trust and appreciate in the previous runs. This was a long time ago, now is different, only few times the ranger and the F/D are in my party, but still I feel guilty if I don't take whith me my little sister, in some runs I take her until she regain her soul, more often she is whith me until the end of ToB. Very seldom I leave her in Spellhod.

    But I agree whith @bengoshi on many of his points, usually she is uderlevelled as I use mainly parties of 3 or 4 and is not so usefull as my parties are full of arcane casters, an uderlevelledT/M has few to add.
    So I often change her in a Blade or a sorcerer, 2 single classes that I love and level faster than the rest of the party that usually is a mix of self created and NPC multiclass, the level gap closes fast. Sometimes I use also a mod (don't know if EE compatible) that if you take Yoshimo to spellhod transfer his XP to her, and I find the thing very interesting because I don't have to rush to spellhod or feel that I am wasting XP if I use him. But if is true that I lilke Thieves, real ones, not duals whith few levels in it, is also true that in my current PWGaming experimentation single classes don't suit well, I prefer Jan or a multi F/M/T, so usually I have Yoshi whith me only in the trip toward Spellhod.

    Having Imoen whith me add 1 toon to my 3 or 4 optimized party, giving more micromanage hassle and breaking a balance of functions, but is one thing where RP almost prevails on PWGaming, usually my little sister is whith me until the end.

    And about other npc's? I take them only for their quests and even so often I rescue Mazzy only for the final battle whith the Shadow Lord, I talk to Korgan only when that area of the graveyard is cleared and so on...

  • BubblesBubbles Member Posts: 589
    The game should have a 7th sleeper slot (non-combat) just for Imoene sake, for the storyline ^^.
    I am still pausing my 5 EE NPCs run because I can't get over ditching Imoene....

    I really enjoy the 5 EE NPCs all at once in the party (kinda cute to bring a Grizzly right up Ribald's face ^^).
    Those 5 NPCs are totally agreeable with each other saving charname the hassle of refereeing in a heavy-weight boxing match.

    How I wish there is a 7th sleeper slot ....

    GreenWarlocklolien
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,279
    Well, so can't I, but I think I can understand why.

    Imoen is the best one for the part of "sidekick" (in a good way). She is a friend who has probably the same convictions as you do, but it is your differences that make you both grow as characters. I love her!

    killerrabbitatcDave
  • vishvish Member Posts: 49
    edited January 2016

    Ah, you don't have to convince me that Jan is a better NPC from a PW gamer perspective, i know he is. The main reason i want to take him is so i can use Spike Traps in my No reload run. I just have a hard time letting go of Imoen, from a roleplaying perspective, that's all.

    You could try installing the ImoenRomance mod. Gives you more roleplaying incentive to keep her around rather than pure nostalgia. It's the best romance mod IMO, but it could have been infinitely better written. No offense to those who wrote it. If it were me I would leave Imoen in Spellhold 10/10 times. She really doesn't offer anything in terms of roleplaying once you pick her up, so this a quick fix to spice things up a bit... to say the least.

  • BubblesBubbles Member Posts: 589
    @vish, she is technically the charname's half-sister ...
    Weird to romance own sister x_x

    atcDave
  • biffyclangerbiffyclanger Member Posts: 207
    Wish you can just carry her in your infinite bag of holding :).

    JuliusBorisovkillerrabbit
  • vishvish Member Posts: 49
    edited January 2016
    Bubbles said:

    @vish, she is technically the charname's half-sister ...
    Weird to romance own sister x_x

    We're all adults here, and I'm sure most of us have seen Game of Thrones.

    She's technically a Bhaalspawn and shares no blood with the PC. She has Bhaal's taint not his blood. Let's not get into the semantics about it.

    Honestly, she's a more viable and logical romance than any of the romances if you ask me. Viconia went from 2 dollar whore in BG1 to Hotness von Schtuup in BG2 somehow. Aerie is considerably more damaged than Imoen even after Irenicus steals her soul. And Jahiera is at least old enough to be your mother as well, plus she has a thing for weak, pandering sods. On the other hand, you grew up with Imoen in a place where she was the ONLY viable girl to fool around with. If you ask me I think it's impossible to argue that your PC and her never showed any attraction towards each other growing up. I'll be honest if it were me we'd have been married before we even left Candlekeep, and I'd have told Gorion "Up yours, you uppity bald(ing) virgin."

  • BubblesBubbles Member Posts: 589
    @vish, ^^ I think Gorion keeps a tight watch on both Bhaalspawns to make sure no accidental next generation of Bhaallings ever have a chance to be conceived ^^.
    Who knows what spells the Harpers cast on these 2 to keep them from having "affections" for each other ^^ (the Harpers didn't raid the Priesthood of dead Bhaal so that they can find out if Bhaalspawns are sterile or not xD.

    atcDave
  • BubblesBubbles Member Posts: 589

    Wish you can just carry her in your infinite bag of holding :).

    Oh yeah that's a great idea! Much like Renfield ^^ (I dump him in that casket sack of Hexxat and lug him everywhere).

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,954
    edited January 2016
    She's far more important to have around in BG1 for the most part, assuming you aren't opening up any areas early with mods and aren't playing a Thief. Safana has a timed quest in a pretty tight time frame window. Alora is in the city, which means the game is half over when you get her. Coran in stuck behind Cloakwood and Chapter 3. Skie requires the city being open AND Eldoth. Montaron is just kind of boring. Point being, Imoen is by far the easiest Thief to keep around til after you clear the bandit camp, at which point you have a multitude of options.

    In BG2 she's essentially replaced by Yoshimo by default. You can also immediately get Nalia, Jan, or Hexxat with little effort. But yeah, you go from endless Thief options in BG1 to next slim pickings in BG2. While it may seem that they really cut down on the number of NPCs in the sequel (29-22), all that really happened was they trimmed the Thief options down from 7-4 (we won't count Yoshimo and Imoen as separate since they are designed to replace each other).

    JuliusBorisovkillerrabbitGreenWarlock
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,646
    We are not all adults, this game and this board are also for teenagers, and board rules are explicit about it.
    imo (and I am not a moderator) nothing wrong has been told so far, but don't forget about.

    In our real life middle age and even later we had many marriages of akin, mainly in ruling families, and even if I have little lore about FR universe everybody can see how is modeled on our middle age.
    Maybe in FR the marriage between half brother and sister is not the taboo that is in our modern world.
    Like the marriage of mature sexually, but teen in our modern criterion, people. Teen that in other ages where percived as adult people, and that is why in that ages their marriage was not percived as something to condemn, the history is full of examples also about that.
    So from a RP point of wiew I don't see too strange to romance Imoen, even if I never did or installed that mod.
    Whithout debating if their parentage was taint or blood realted.

    And this is not a justification of something that in our modern world is condamned, we have good reasons to do it. We must live and act according to our modern standards of morality.
    And every embezzlement by an adult to a not adult has to be comdamned.

    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,972

    We are not all adults, this game and this board are also for teenagers, and board rules are explicit about it.
    imo nothing wrong has been told so far, but don't forget about.

    Exactly. And this comes from a moderator.

    gorgonzolaEadwyn_G8keeper
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,646
    @jjstraka34 , I don't play BG, just BG2, notEE, so I don't know about thieves in bg or Hexxat, but I agree that in BG2 NPC thieves are a problem.
    We have only 1 single class, that at a certain point of the game becomes unavaillable, a couple of mages whith few levels of thief, just basic trap disabling and door opening, and a multi, that can become a good thief but being multi levels slow. Maybe the new EE character is a viable alternative to him or a charname thief if you want something more than the basics.

    But i think that OP's concern was about RP issues, not about thieves in the game.
    We can talk about how each one of us balance between RP issues and thief problems or Immy's power or usefulness. But the point of the topic is
    Bubbles said:

    Whenever I play BG2 or the EE version, I always feel obligated to have Imoene in my party.
    I dunno why, for some strange reason (maybe is the storyline?), I can't make myself to drop her.
    Anyone share this Imoene feeling out there?

    DJKajuru
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,161
    I'm quite practical mostly, but tend to weave in RP parts as well. So in BG1, I tend to use Imoen in the beginnning but then replace her with better thieves, Coran being my favorite. In BG2 I seldom use her, and the times I do use her, I still have Jan in the party and Immy is used as a mage rather than being the party's thief. It's not rare that I use Jan, Aerie and Imoen in a good/neutral run. I'm not the best arcane user, so having a multitude of mages make it easier for me since I'm not the best at preparing spell slots etc (and also since I tend to avoid metagaming too much, hence choosing spells to be versatile rather than preparing for each individual encounter).

    So, I have no qualms about ditching her both in BG1 and in Spellhold, it just comes down to party setup and party efficiency.

    JuliusBorisov
  • vishvish Member Posts: 49
    edited January 2016
    Bubbles said:

    @vish, ^^ I think Gorion keeps a tight watch on both Bhaalspawns to make sure no accidental next generation of Bhaallings ever have a chance to be conceived ^^.
    Who knows what spells the Harpers cast on these 2 to keep them from having "affections" for each other ^^ (the Harpers didn't raid the Priesthood of dead Bhaal so that they can find out if Bhaalspawns are sterile or not xD.

    You know what they say about True Love's kiss right?

  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 447
    edited January 2016
    I almost never brought Imoen, Jaheira and Khalid with me in BG1. I do take them with me to the Nashkel Mines area but then swap them out with whomever ASAP.
    Gameplay-wise, there were just too many (usually better) alternatives. RP-wise, it just made no sense to bring Imoen along. Your PC was a marked man and Imoen was in her annoying/naive little sister stage. So I usually just leave her in Nashkel with Volo, Jaheira and Khalid. If those three (and possibly Elminster, who's basically Volo's unofficial guardian) can't keep her safe, no one can.

    BG2 is another story. RP-wise, it made no sense to not bring her along, considering all she's been through. Also, the moment your PC turns into the Slayer for the first time alarms bells should be ringing.
    Gameplay-wise, Imoen's not a bad NPC in general. Great stats, just enough Disarm Traps/Open Locks which you can further boost with gear. If you don't plan on bringing Jan/Hexxat and your PC isn't a thief then Nalia is pretty much her only competition.

    Not everyone is a slave to their libido. Just as many adults will find the idea of an Imoen romance repulsive, and people don't have to be related by blood to be family.
    It would be different, I suppose, if Imoen was the flirty type from the onset. Obviously that's not the case, in BG1 she acts like the spoiled brat sister and in BG2 she clearly looks up to you as the responsible sibling. You understand how people would instantly connect with her on a "she's my little sister" level so... eww, just eww.

    SkatanAerakar
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