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Cantrips, spell tweaks and added spells

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547
    Yeah, that's what made me think of a delay, actually.

    One thing that I was thinking about, that your post reminds me of: I kinda want spells to scale. They should always be useful.. Of course, I realize that this is a dangerous line, as they could turn out to be too useful. But they really should be usable at any level, it seems (yeah, I'm a huge fan of the sr philosophy)

  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 1,989

    Note, I have versions of this that use every kind of elemental damage, and they each have their own custom colored projectile, courtesy of Pecca.

    I created these back in a day, when modding tools were still in development for supporting EEs and I didn't have much experience with them, so it was somewhat complicated. Now it's very simple. If you load SPMAGMIS.BAM into a BAM converter in NI and apply filters like "Hue/Saturation" or "Color Balance", you can get virtually any color.

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,414

    Yeah, you just need to COPY_REGEXP all spells, filter by arcane/divine, filter by spell level, and hit the level 1 arcane spells with an ADD_SPELL_EFFECT adding opcode 261 and restoring a single level of spells (just have to make sure it's the last effect). Super simple, and if you set every 1st level spell to do it, it will always work!

    I would have coded it up already, but I was busy last night updating FnP :)

    I am tempted to do the extra work, and specify the spell name in resource key. I have tested it, and this does work in iwdee, which leads me to believe that it will work in the ee's, if not now, then in the near future. That leaves bgt, but maybe it works in tobex enhanced bgt. I seem to remember it working there, at least, but I could easily be wrong
    I don't think opcode 261 works that way. I modified the Bless spell to have a global Restore Spells effect with a 30 second delay the resource SPPR101 specified. Using a cleric with Armor of Faith in the first spell slot and Bless in the second, I cast Armor of Faith first. Then I cast (the modified) Bless. After a while, the Armor of Faith spell was restored, not Bless.

    Tried it in BGEE and IWDEE. Same result.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547
    edited February 2016

    Yeah, you just need to COPY_REGEXP all spells, filter by arcane/divine, filter by spell level, and hit the level 1 arcane spells with an ADD_SPELL_EFFECT adding opcode 261 and restoring a single level of spells (just have to make sure it's the last effect). Super simple, and if you set every 1st level spell to do it, it will always work!

    I would have coded it up already, but I was busy last night updating FnP :)

    I am tempted to do the extra work, and specify the spell name in resource key. I have tested it, and this does work in iwdee, which leads me to believe that it will work in the ee's, if not now, then in the near future. That leaves bgt, but maybe it works in tobex enhanced bgt. I seem to remember it working there, at least, but I could easily be wrong
    I don't think opcode 261 works that way. I modified the Bless spell to have a global Restore Spells effect with a 30 second delay the resource SPPR101 specified. Using a cleric with Armor of Faith in the first spell slot and Bless in the second, I cast Armor of Faith first. Then I cast (the modified) Bless. After a while, the Armor of Faith spell was restored, not Bless.

    Tried it in BGEE and IWDEE. Same result.
    That is strange. I've tested it with grease and armor in both combinations, and both times I casted one leaving an empty slot and then the other, and both times only the second spell was restored...

    I did not test it as a global effect, a priest spell, or with a delayed timer, however. I am not sure why that would make a difference...


    Edit: I may have tested it incorrectly... I thought that it was about the spell name rather than the memorized slot...

    Edit2: damn it, you're right

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547
    edited February 2016

    Still, like I say, for just 1st level spells it should be fine. If anything it simplifies our patching code, since now we don't need to get the RES as a variable and insert it into the resource key.

    If we have any delay, it will have to be less than 6 seconds

    Edit: even that won't work with aura cleansing...

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,414

    Still, like I say, for just 1st level spells it should be fine. If anything it simplifies our patching code, since now we don't need to get the RES as a variable and insert it into the resource key.

    I was hoping @Grammarsalad had discovered something. It would have allowed igi's SpellSystemAdjustment mod to be tweaked to work the way one would expect on the EEs (i.e. restoring the spell that was cast). Would be fun for a "high-magic" run.

    Grammarsalad
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547

    I wasn't understanding how the delay issue was related to the resource key issue. But now I do.

    Incidentally the Aura Cleansing remark makes me realize that renewable spells + Robe of Vecna + Improved Alacrity = infinite Magic Bolts. So in any case, we should have a delay of at least 1 second.

    (Isn't Vecna a god in at least one non-forgotten world, but DnD, setting?)

    if so, we should probably ensure that casting time for all spells is at least 2. This way the spell will not get off before the previous spell is renewed...

    For some reason, I'm having trouble finding the robe of vecna in DLTCEP...
    But, the Robe of Larloch increases caster speed by 2...

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547
    edited February 2016

    I'm pretty sure the Robe of Larloch is just the vanilla Robe of Vecna, changed by some mod. (SR?). The vanilla version has an insane -4 casting time reduction. And it can be combined with the Amulet of Power for a total -5 bonus. And then there are mod items. (A certain kind of modder loves to add items that reduce casting time, for to combine with Alacrity and Time Stop.)

    So rather than boosting casting times (they would have to be 6 or higher) I think it would be simpler to add a 1-second delay to the cantrip restoration effect. Then even with IA + RoV, you could still only cast 6 Magic Bolts per round.

    (This could very slightly and briefly introduce the issue you're worried about, with the restoration applying to the wrong cantrip... but honestly I have little sympathy for anyone who tries to exploit the system this way, and then finds that the system doesn't work perfectly for them.)

    No, the issue I'm thinking about is this:

    Cast spell 1 (which is not in the first slot)
    Cast spell 2, which is in an earlier slot.

    Recover for spell 1 kicks in: recovers spell 2....

    Edit: I suppose that spell 2 will recover spell 1 when it kicks in.

    Edit 2: Though, if you could get spell 1 off again, it would recover spell 1 again. Then cast spell 3, and I'm losing track. Would be a bit wonky though.

    Edit 3: Let's say that 1, 2 and 3 are different spells with numbers denoting slot number, and, with some craziness you can get off whatever spell you want of these three before the last recovery:

    C1: cast spell 2
    C2: cast spell 1
    recover 1 (from C1)
    C3: cast spell 1
    recover spell 1 (from C2)
    C4: cast spell 1
    Recover spell 1 (from C3)
    ...

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547

    Yeah - if spells 1, 2, and 3, are memorized in that order, and you cast IA, and then cast the spells in reverse order (3 then 2 then 1) and cast all 3 before the first one is restored, then they would be restored in memorization order (1, 2, 3) and *not* in cast order (3, 2, 1).

    Which is not ideal. BUT, if the delay is set to 1 second, You would have to cast them all within 1 second in order to observe this... and even if you did, they would *all* be restored within 1 second... so no biggie, IMHO.

    Getting back to the idea of a healing cantrip, which occasioned this talk of a delay... I just come back to the idea that we should not have a healing cantrip.

    I suppose that it isn't such a big deal. Also, you would have to be high enough level to have IA, and if you felt the need to use IA, why aren't you casting stronger spells anyway?

    I kind of like the idea of having more ways to heal. One of the few things I liked about 4th edition was the 'second wind' mechanic.

    But yeah, the problem with a healing cantrip is on the one hand you want it to be good enough to use, but on the other, if it's that good, it shouldn't be at will...

    Okay, I suppose we should move clw to second level (and we should probably improve it)

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,185

    Getting back to the idea of a healing cantrip, which occasioned this talk of a delay... I just come back to the idea that we should not have a healing cantrip.

    You could replace it with a Temporary/Bonus HP cantrip, granting immunity to itself until it expires. Then you could balance the duration(a turn, an hour, a day?) to the HP amount. A shorter duration could be used more often as a heal, but still not spammed. While with a longer duration it could be relied upon and healed by other means.

    Grammarsalad
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547
    kjeron said:

    Getting back to the idea of a healing cantrip, which occasioned this talk of a delay... I just come back to the idea that we should not have a healing cantrip.

    You could replace it with a Temporary/Bonus HP cantrip, granting immunity to itself until it expires. Then you could balance the duration(a turn, an hour, a day?) to the HP amount. A shorter duration could be used more often as a heal, but still not spammed. While with a longer duration it could be relied upon and healed by other means.
    I like it. We could call it 'virtue', after the 3+edition spell

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,185
    @Grammarsalad
    Ray Projectiles:
    Extended Flags(offset = 0x2c):
    Bit 14 - Lined up AoE
    Bit 29 - Limited Path Count

    Extra - Speed affects how many images appear between you and target, if it appears to have gaps or is too tightly packed.

    Grammarsalad
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547
    kjeron said:

    @Grammarsalad
    Ray Projectiles:
    Extended Flags(offset = 0x2c):
    Bit 14 - Lined up AoE
    Bit 29 - Limited Path Count

    Extra - Speed affects how many images appear between you and target, if it appears to have gaps or is too tightly packed.

    Did you see my question on gibberlings?

    Anyway, thanks!

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547
    Okay, some proposed spells. I'm sticking with direct damage spells for now because they are the easiest to compare.

    Potentially, there could be as many as three different versions of each of the following spells:
    - as a zero level cantrip
    - as a first level cantrip (i.e. recovered after a 1 second delay)
    - as a bona fide, normal 1st level spell.

    Also, there is the potential that any given spell could find itself as a both a wizard and priest spell/cantrip.

    I will put the first level cantrip version, and then make any notes at the end in italics about possible alterations for other versions.


    Frost Ray
    (Evocation)

    Level: 1 (cantrip)
    Range: Short
    Duration: Instant
    Casting Time: 3
    Area of Effect: 2-ft. by 40-ft. jet.
    Saving Throw: Breath

    Upon casting this spell a ray of ice appears at the caster's fingertips and shoots toward a target of the caster's choice. The ray causes 1d6 points of cold damage to the target to anyone in the ray's path if they do not make a save vs. breath.

    Damage is increased by 1d6 at levels 4, 8 and 12.

    - As a zero level cantrip, this spell probably would allow a save +2 to the save vs. breath, and damage wouldn't improve (?) at higher levels. Rather, the save bonus would be reduced to a max of 0 at higher levels.

    - As a first level spell, I would probably take away the save so that it automatically damages opponents.

    - This spell could easily become a first level water sphere spell/cantrip.


    Notes: Short range, and damage can be completely avoided entirely with a save (though, not as a regular first level spell), but has the potential to damage multiple opponents (similar to A. Scorcher), and does a damage type that is not often resisted...I think.


    Fire Bolt
    Level: 1 (cantrip)
    School: Evocation
    Range: Long
    Duration: Instant
    Casting Time: 3
    Area of Effect: 1 creature
    Saving Throw: Breath

    When this cantrip is cast, the caster shoots a bolt of fire from his hand at the target of his choosing causing 1d8 points of fire damage on a sucessful hit. A creature may make a save vs breath to avoid being damaged by this spell.

    Damage is increased by 1d8 at levels 4, 8 and 12.

    - Zero Lev: No damage increase; +2 to saves. Save bonus is reduced at higher levels

    - 1st level spell: No save to avoid damage. Probably wouldn't add it, however, as it would fill the same role as fire arrow.

    - Potentially, this could become a fire sphere spell/cantrip, but that sphere has plenty of spells. The exception would be as a zero level cantrip. I hope to have at least one cantrip per sphere, so I'll need as many spells as will work.


    Notes: Relatively high damage (though it doesn't overshadow the 3rd level spell fire arrow), and long range. However, it is fire damage, which I believe is commonly resisted, and it can be completely avoided with a save (or the shield spell). Compared to ice ray, it can only hope to damage a single opponent, though it will cause more damage, generally, than that spell.

    Acid Splash
    Level: 1 (Cantrip)
    School: Conjuration
    Range: Medium
    Duration: Special
    Casting Time: 3
    Area of Effect: 1 creature
    Saving Throw: Breath

    When this cantrip is cast, the caster conjurs a ball of acid and hurls it towards his target causing 1d3 acid damage if they do not save vs Breath, and an additional 1d3 points of damage one round later.

    At levels 4, 8 and 12, the acid burns for an additional round.

    - Zero level. No duration increase; +2 to saves, which is reduced at level up.
    - 1st level: Again, probably wouldn't add it as a regular 1st level spell, as it fills the same role as acid arrow. But, I suppose I could take away the save.
    - Might use as a zero level cantrip for the water sphere, but there is already frost ray. If water and ice ever get seperated, then this would be the water cantrip. On the other hand, there is no law that says that there must be one and only one zero lev cantrip for each sphere.


    Notes: Low damage and range, and can be completely avoided with a save. This spell is basically for opposing casters.

    Magic Bolt

    Level: 1 (Cantrip)
    Range: medium
    Duration: instantaneous
    Casting Time: 1
    Area of Effect: Target
    Saving Throw: None

    This cantrip causes a small bolt of magical energy to leap from the caster's hands, doing 1d4 damage to the target.

    The damage inflicted by this spell increases by 1d4 at levels 4, 8 and 12.

    - zero level: I would probably just use the original version (no increase in damage)
    - First level: There would really be no need as there is already the magic missile spell.
    - I could definitely see this as a priest magic sphere spell/cantrip


    Notes: This is a very good spell. Possibly better than all of the others. The only way to avoid being damaged by it is with a shield spell, it has a lightning fast casting time, and it does a damage type that is rarely resisted. It does do a small amount of damage, however. My thinking is that this spell should be compatible to magic missile while not being as good.

    JuliusBorisov
  • enneractenneract Member Posts: 187
    I seriously hope this gets released as a standalone mod, rather than spread out as divine/arcane components in TnB etc.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547
    enneract said:

    I seriously hope this gets released as a standalone mod, rather than spread out as divine/arcane components in TnB etc.

    I will actually be releasing this as a standalone, as I want to get it 'into the wild', so to speak. However, once it's in a relatively stable state, it'll be incorporated into those two mods (though this will be in a relatively stable state, so you'll get this mod as a standalone). After that point, if there is demand, I'm fine updating this as a standalone

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,669
    Though this doesn't have anything to do with cantrips, it would be cool for Champion's Strength to be changed to set Strength to 25 rather than 18/00 in BG1 (not in BG2). In BG1, Champion's Strength can only be cast through a handful of scrolls, so it should be awesome.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547

    Though this doesn't have anything to do with cantrips, it would be cool for Champion's Strength to be changed to set Strength to 25 rather than 18/00 in BG1 (not in BG2). In BG1, Champion's Strength can only be cast through a handful of scrolls, so it should be awesome.

    Probably not going to happen, sorry. But, you can change the spell using nearinfinity or DLTCEP...

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547
    edited March 2016
    I just read that there will be no Spell Revisions support for IWD:EE. Now, we will still be able to get SR versions of spells through IWD in EET, but that leaves any newly added IWD spells without SR support. As such, I will add an additional optional component to this (and, ultimately to TnB and FnP) called "IWDEE SRification", or something like that. The component will try to give unique IWDEE spells the SR treatment (to the best of my abilities, of course!)

    Unfortunately, this component will not alter existing IWD:EE spells per Spell Revisions as those spells will be available via IWD in EET, and I'm not really up for reinventing the wheel.

    That is, unless @Demivrgvs gives me permission to use SR resources to update those spells in IWD:EE. (completely understandable if you don't want to do this Demi--just putting it out there).

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    @Grammarsalad I'm not sure what you mean with "will not alter existing IWD:EE spells per Spell Revisions as those spells will be available via IWD in EET" but I think I have nothing against you working on a "IWDEE SRification" component.
    Mind you, the only reason I'm not thinking to do it myself is very simple: lack of time.

    Btw, speaking of reinventing the wheel...years ago I wrote down cantrips for KR's mages. Sooner or later I'll try to read the wall of text on the first page of this topic and see if you guys had better ideas. ;)

    Grammarsalad
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    GrammarsaladDemivrgvsArdul
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,547
    edited March 2016
    Yeah, sorry. I am not being very clear.

    Because I saw on the eet boards that sr is compatible with eet, I assume that iwd-in-eet will bring over, but not overwrite the sr revised spells, while adding any exclusive iwdee spells. Thus, one can get sr spells into an iwdee (like) game without making changes to sr.

    But, coupled with the fact that demi doesn't have the time to make sr compatible with iwdee, these seem to follow:

    1) unique IWDEE spells won't get the sr treatment

    And

    2) it won't be possible--without messing with the sr files oneself--for a normal (I.e. non-iwd-in-eet) IWDEE playthroughs to have sr revised spells.

    To address 1, I would make changes to the new spells myself as needed to fit the sr spell philosophy.

    To address 2--and I'm sorry @Demivrgvs , I want to summon you one more time to make sure this is okay with you--I would use SR files--spl's, pro's, etc.-- to create an install that brings over sr spells to iwdee replacing the appropriate spells (e.g. iwdee's cure light wounds with sr's superior 'cure light wounds' spell).

    Again, I'll only address 1, and not 2 if you have any issue with this, no problem. But, if you let me address 2, I will give you (and arda, and mike) full credit for the component, and praise your name and link to your mods, etc. if you are okay with this.

    Edit: and yeah, this is a long term project)

    Ardul
  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    @Grammarsalad you have my blessing ;) but as @subtledoctor says I think it's best if we wait SoD first and the end of IR/SR betas too (I still have a few new spells to introduce).

    Btw, IR & SR betas are pretty much over within 1-2 builds, I'm just stuck on a few things and the lack of time but sooner than you think I'll finally move on. :) I don't think I'll be able to actively work on IWD stuff because my priority after the betas is KR, and to a lesser extent SoD (Arda works on it thus I hope he has a word to check the quality of items, stores, etc.) but I'll surely be around to help you guys out if I can.

    Grammarsalad
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