Congrats, everyone – we might not get future BG content because people are actively trying to tank this game. If you've actually PLAYED SoD, I would strongly encourage you leave a review of your own.
A few years ago this would've bothered me.
Currently i'm comparing the newest BG expansion vs PoE and the new torment game, and I'm struggling to determine why I should care.
BG under beamdog is... decidedly mediocre. The writing is flat and one dimensional, the characters are surprisingly dull (how you make a goblin party member dull I do not know, but they did it so kudos there), and the nostalgia of old 2nd ed dnd combat is struggling to stand up to a much more interesting and varied systems the others are exploring.
In short, there needs to be something of particular merit here for me to worry about its loss. All that is here is a decidedly mediocre set of developers trying to live off a franchise made by others with far more skill, as becomes obvious when comparing what black isle has gone on to do.
Now, when i see developers at beamdog trashing the original BG as well as the people who made it and those who loved it, I go from apathy to actually thinking it'd be preferable. They clearly lack respect for the game and series, and it would be best if they didn't make any more games within it (or, if i let a bit of my more unpleasant side out, any more games at all).
Have you played it? What is it about "the goblin party member" that you find boring?
Want to stay out of controversy? Then don't court *either side* of the most controversial...thing...that's ever happened to gaming.
This is taken from Deities & Demigods ADnD 1E, I believe. It was uploaded by someone on Facebook in a similar discussion about trans people in 5E, so not sure. Emphasis mine.
Being a trans was a thing since 1E. It's nothing new to BG or Forgotten Realms.
Btw is it true that "Gametime played" was deactivated for Steam Reviews on SoD?
If it was I am very upset, I was gonna set up a script to data-mine the review page and use my data-science skills to produce some cool plots. Looks like that idea is out the window.
This isnt realy doing BG any favors regarding: "those are just trolls who havent played the game".
Edwin's change is played for laughs. The transexual's is not, as far as I know.
So? I'm still expecting an answer about my question in the comment about magical vs mundane gender change, above.
I'm honestly curious about the actual issue here. Unless the issue is really "I don't like transexuals".
That is absolutely, 100% the issue. They can't admit it, it has to be masked in psuedo-intellectual nonsense, but yes, in the end it can be boiled down to "trans people gross me out".
My issues stem more with the poor overall writing, which is arguably the main thing this addon adds. Everything else is just continued refinements to an existing engine, not even particularly large changes tbh. I should not be comparing fan made expansions, quest lines, etc to the paid expansion and be left with the feeling the fan stuff is the better quality.
This is compounded by the profound lack of respect the developer has shown for both the original game and the people who made it. To be so arrogant as to think this expansion even comes close to what the originals offer, much less to use it as a means to disparage the originals, is something I cannot support.
Beamdog isn't black isle. They could not have made BG themselves, as shown by the fact beamdog continues to live off the franchise name. If your entire second rate development team wants to live off a franchise made by your betters, you should at least show respect for those whose talents eclipse your own.
--> Just a random fan of D&D games (pre 4º version) and Baldurs Gate here <--- (Sorry for my bad english... I'm from far ... far away... ).</i>
I know that there are a "bazillion" of messages like this one and most people haven't the time to read it but it is ok, (just because that, there is a lot of post just like this one) but I felf the need to post anyways.
First of all I'm gratefull to see one of the best games in the "humankind games industry short history", at least for my taste, to get this expansion... it is true, totally true, that it is still buggy (And I'm hoping for news of some 2.01 patch or something like that with most of the remaining bugs fixed... any date about that would be so lovely by the way).... but we have to remember that these guys just CREATED new content, a 20-30 hours DLC for something that many of us thought it was extincted so many years ago.
Part of me is sad to see that something so sacred for me like Baldurs Gate... it gets so much hate and trolling in some forums just because people is not ok with this or that in the game. But I guess that in the actual time of trolling, haters and flawed society nothing is sacred now, even harmless stuff like have a little fun alone or with friends in some Dungeons & Dragons.
In any case I think that is not something happening just here in this game or this DLC.. it is more like a synthom of these days... political stuff is everywhere and we have to accept it. (No matter witch side is each one).
For that reason I think that the devs have to trust what they created and let their product to talk for them. A LOT of people will play the game and it will be the game that will talk to the people about how is the product. (Yes, Im talking here like a 5 year child in this momment but... you know...).
I think that the devs dont need to go into the fight in the social media because that is what trolls just wants... if the devs go down to their lvl and argue with them.... it will be like getting dirty when there is no need at all.
In any case it is true that no work is perfect yes, it is true that expectations are so hight that it is not easy to supress feelings.. but in any case, as player of Dungeons and Dragons (and maybe some day a nwn2 server admin if I manage to finish with so many goddawn scripts) I can say that I'm in love with this idea and product of this BG EE DLC.
My congratulations to the dev team and hoping to see some patch for bugs and some adaptation to other languajes in the future for the Siege of Dragonspear.
Edwin's change is played for laughs. The transexual's is not, as far as I know.
So? I'm still expecting an answer about my question in the comment about magical vs mundane gender change, above.
I'm honestly curious about the actual issue here. Unless the issue is really "I don't like transexuals".
That is absolutely, 100% the issue. They can't admit it, it has to be masked in psuedo-intellectual nonsense, but yes, in the end it can be boiled down to "trans people gross me out".
My issues stem more with the poor overall writing, which is arguably the main thing this addon adds. Everything else is just continued refinements to an existing engine, not even particularly large changes tbh. I should not be comparing fan made expansions, quest lines, etc to the paid expansion and be left with the feeling the fan stuff is the better quality.
This is compounded by the profound lack of respect the developer has shown for both the original game and the people who made it. To be so arrogant as to think this expansion even comes close to what the originals offer, much less to use it as a means to disparage the originals, is something I cannot support.
Beamdog isn't black isle. They could not have made BG themselves, as shown by the fact beamdog continues to live off the franchise name. If your entire second rate development team wants to live off a franchise made by your betters, you should at least show respect for those whose talents eclipse your own.
Beamdog hasn't claimed that it's as good as the originals, nor have they "used" SoD to disparage the originals. Several of the people working for Beamdog, including the CEO, MADE THE ORIGINALS.
Edwin's change is played for laughs. The transexual's is not, as far as I know.
So? I'm still expecting an answer about my question in the comment about magical vs mundane gender change, above.
I'm honestly curious about the actual issue here. Unless the issue is really "I don't like transexuals".
That is absolutely, 100% the issue. They can't admit it, it has to be masked in psuedo-intellectual nonsense, but yes, in the end it can be boiled down to "trans people gross me out".
My issues stem more with the poor overall writing, which is arguably the main thing this addon adds. Everything else is just continued refinements to an existing engine, not even particularly large changes tbh. I should not be comparing fan made expansions, quest lines, etc to the paid expansion and be left with the feeling the fan stuff is the better quality.
This is compounded by the profound lack of respect the developer has shown for both the original game and the people who made it. To be so arrogant as to think this expansion even comes close to what the originals offer, much less to use it as a means to disparage the originals, is something I cannot support.
Beamdog isn't black isle. They could not have made BG themselves, as shown by the fact beamdog continues to live off the franchise name. If your entire second rate development team wants to live off a franchise made by your betters, you should at least show respect for those whose talents eclipse your own.
Beamdog hasn't claimed that it's as good as the originals, nor have they "used" SoD to disparage the originals. Several of the people working for Beamdog, including the CEO, MADE THE ORIGINALS.
That part I find funny. I mean obviously it's not the entire team, but...yeah.
Want to stay out of controversy? Then don't court *either side* of the most controversial...thing...that's ever happened to gaming.
This is taken from Deities & Demigods ADnD 1E, I believe. It was uploaded by someone on Facebook in a similar discussion about trans people in 5E, so not sure. Emphasis mine.
Being a trans was a thing since 1E. It's nothing new to BG or Forgotten Realms.
Like most things that offer basically 100% proof that their argument is nonsense, they'll ignore that this even exists, even though it clearly does....
Edwin's change is played for laughs. The transexual's is not, as far as I know.
So? I'm still expecting an answer about my question in the comment about magical vs mundane gender change, above.
I'm honestly curious about the actual issue here. Unless the issue is really "I don't like transexuals".
That is absolutely, 100% the issue. They can't admit it, it has to be masked in psuedo-intellectual nonsense, but yes, in the end it can be boiled down to "trans people gross me out".
My issues stem more with the poor overall writing, which is arguably the main thing this addon adds. Everything else is just continued refinements to an existing engine, not even particularly large changes tbh. I should not be comparing fan made expansions, quest lines, etc to the paid expansion and be left with the feeling the fan stuff is the better quality.
This is compounded by the profound lack of respect the developer has shown for both the original game and the people who made it. To be so arrogant as to think this expansion even comes close to what the originals offer, much less to use it as a means to disparage the originals, is something I cannot support.
Beamdog isn't black isle. They could not have made BG themselves, as shown by the fact beamdog continues to live off the franchise name. If your entire second rate development team wants to live off a franchise made by your betters, you should at least show respect for those whose talents eclipse your own.
Beamdog hasn't claimed that it's as good as the originals, nor have they "used" SoD to disparage the originals. Several of the people working for Beamdog, including the CEO, MADE THE ORIGINALS.
Okay, let's just be clear. They got the cast offs from bioware, the somewhat less interesting but more technically skilled bits of black isle. Of particular note, they got one modeler and one programmer who worked on the in game engine.
Note they did not get the writers, the ones who they did disparage and insult. If I felt particularly mean, and I think I do, I might even point out they really didn't get any of the people whose creativity and general skill actually made the original games such successes.
All I have to say is that this really saddens me, I've been looking forward to SOD since the day it was announced. I've purchased all the EE editions along with the originals, I LOVE baldur's Gate. Having all of this controversy at launch really took the wind out of my sails. Hindsight being 20/20, Beamdog should have just left politics out of the game.....period. I WANT this game to succeed, I WANT BG3 to be made. Doesn't matter which side you fall on, the fact reamins now SOD has had a controversial launch and will likely hurt the game's sales, which didn't need to happpen, that's what makes me so bummed out. Granted I haven't played the game yet, just got my Steam key yesterday, (purchased the CE) and I look forward to playing it and I will reserve judgement on political agendas or whatever until then. But in the end, it still makes me sad that we are here at this point.
Remember that just because people are saying there are political agendas doesn't mean there are political agendas. These people could find a political agenda in a jar of peanut butter. I hope you have fun playing SoD.
Thanks, I plan on playing SOD, but to be honest, this whole controvery has left a bad taste in my mouth....for now. I was so excited for this, I even pre-ordered the CE, but i think I'm going to wait for a while. Which is fine, I'm still working on the new POE expansion. Maybe after that, some patches will be up fixing some of the technical problems also. I know SOD needed to perform well for a BG3 to be made. I'm worried that Beamdog's decisions may have made that immpossible now. If for some miracle this game overcomes this controvery and BG3 is back on, please, for the love of all that is holy Beamdog, learn from your mistakes, don't stir the pot when the pot doesn't need to be stirred.
You guys do know that Metacritic's review system is easily abused? It has been done in the past easily, so I wouldn't give it much merit.
Instead, I'd look around for people who've done single reviews themselves and post videos actually trying out the game.
Can a game that comes out in 2016 seriously meet the standards of one of the greatest CRPGs ever made? No. But the expansion looks to be of something that meets expectations the closest.
You guys do know that Metacritic's review system is easily abused? It has been done in the past easily, so I wouldn't give it much merit.
Instead, I'd look around for people who've done single reviews themselves and post videos actually trying out the game.
Can a game that comes out in 2016 seriously meet the standards of one of the greatest CRPGs ever made? No. But the expansion looks to be of something that meets expectations the closest.
Assuming we ignore the fact that two CRPGs, one still in early access, have already done a far better job living up to the family name so to speak.
It can be done and it can be done far better than this. A bit of a shame, but I think it is good we learn this now, so the flop that would be BG3 doesn't end up hurting the genre overall.
You guys do know that Metacritic's review system is easily abused? It has been done in the past easily, so I wouldn't give it much merit.
Instead, I'd look around for people who've done single reviews themselves and post videos actually trying out the game.
Can a game that comes out in 2016 seriously meet the standards of one of the greatest CRPGs ever made? No. But the expansion looks to be of something that meets expectations the closest.
Assuming we ignore the fact that two CRPGs, one still in early access, have already done a far better job living up to the family name so to speak.
It can be done and it can be done far better than this. A bit of a shame, but I think it is good we learn this now, so the flop that would be BG3 doesn't end up hurting the genre overall.
Okay, I understand your point. Which two CRPGs are you talking about though?
Beamdog is relatively small company with passion and interest in bringing games that most of the world has forgotten about back into the limelight. They, we, *I* believe that these games surpass in content, in thought, in ability, in execution and in what makes an RPG an RPG much of what is being produced today. Name another game that was considered better that PS:T in story or BG2 in story execution and game play and the date it was released....then pick which of those games you honestly believe will hold that title for as long as BG2 or PS:T did.
While you may be right about your concept that no one looks at metacritic before buying a game, we're not Bioware, we're not EA Games, we're not Blizzard Entertainment. The difference between a 20 million dollar release and a 20 million dollar release short a couple thousand bucks for the one off people who happened to not realize Video game reviews are about as useful as t**s on a boar is pretty small.
When you're talking about thousands of players and and buyers, that thousand bucks for the one off people gets a bit more problematic.
It's also tough to watch people lambast your hard work without feeling a need to step in and say something...which is the only reason I responded to anything in any of the God forsaken "review" threads.
I'm going back to helping users and try my damndest to stay away from the discussion topics. As someone who put a year of effort into this game, to tell you that what I'm reading now is...disheartening...would be an understatement.
I can't imagine how the president of the company might feel.
No, it's not my first day on the internet. I had rather hoped this small community of game lovers might be a little less 4 chan and a little more...I don't know...humane?
Maybe I had forgotten in my time away from posting that the forums here are no different than anywhere else around the internet. That anywhere on the internet there will always be a mass of opinions and the loudest of those will always be the most controversial.
Well I can only speak for myself, but I think any true fan of the games will appreciate what you and the others have done with SoD, regardless of this pointless controversy. Keep up the good work and try not to let the gibberlings get you down.
The problem is that the "president" should have known who they're hiring... There's so much controversy with SJW, so why risk hiring someone like them? I'm going through the game right now and I'm liking a lot, except for all the gender polidicks everyone's complaining about; and I agree. I just learnt of SJW today and from the looks of it, they're nothing but trouble...
The mistake was obvious: why hire SJW? They messed up hard, very hard, hiring someone so... disgusting... all I get from male-female interactions in the game is: "I'm a female, so I'm better than everyone else, and if you don't suck up to me I won't even look at you because I don't need you.". And the other thing I see in male-female interaction is the guy only wanting to get in the girls' pants and being rejected. This is teen... There are no mature conversations... They pretty much put p**sy on pedestals while the males in the game don't really get a say in anything... Other than that, the game's great! I just wish I wouldn't be subjected to such disgust...
"Risk"? The anti-SJW crowd likes to talk themselves up like they're capable of doing anything besides filling forum pages, but last I checked, their actual accomplishments can be summed up with a big fat zero. Nothing's changed in game journalism, women are still having opinions on the Internet, and Toby Fox is laughing all the way to the bank.
Rage on if you want to, but don't delude yourself into thinking that's ever going to get you what you want.
Ok, this will be the last post I make on this subject, but it will be a thorough one - which I hope clarifies where the criticism is coming from. I seriously hope Beamdog and other developers read this and learn from it, because it is coming from a die hard BG fan who means no harm to anyone - and honestly I just want to play good games (like the original BG and BG2). 1. Nobody (or at least not a significant number of people) is complaining about 1 or 2 lines with a transgender character in the game. This is the narrative of spin doctors, strawmen artists and other people who have nothing intelligent to contribute to the debate. Most people who complain have probably not even played the game. Most people are probably here after reading the dreadful interview on Kotaku by one of Beamdog's writers who said some incredibly inflamatory things about original BG, its characters and what's worse she said it in a spiteful manner that was bound to rub some people off the wrong way. Here is the link to the interview: http://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-back-baldur-s-gate-after-17-years-1768303595
When you call the original game sexist, when you call one of the original characters a sex object, when you describe the other one as the "nagging wife", and to top it off you even say you don't care what people will think of the changes you wanted to implement from that feminist perspective, you come off as a douchebag who has no respect for the original material. When you shit on your own foundations, is it strange that the fans of the originals will get upset and worried about where the franchise is going?
2. For those of you who still think that this criticism has no foundation and that people are over-reacting, I have to ask you - on which planet have you been living for the last 10-15 years? This is not the first time the "regressive" feminists are pushing their agenda into art. People had these same debates in the movie industry, then it was the music industry, then it was the comic industry with "lets change the original characters like Thor and Spiderman into women", then it was the atheist community with Atheism +, then they came to the gaming industry and this is where a lot of people said "ENOUGH!" We had Gamergate, we had Anita Sarkeesian shitting all over gaming industry how its sexist, we had gaming journalists calling gamers sexist pigs, misogonysts, and worse! We had feminist journalists advocating for the rights of pedophiles because some SJWs are documented pedophiles, we had feminists SJWs joining forces with Islamist extremists and calling anyone who is worried about Islamic extremism a racist,... AND PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT! Its the same shit every time! They stir up the hornets nest, people get pissed and fire back with arguments, and the regressive feminist SJWs just brush it off as "you are a racist, you hate trans people, you are this and that!" Many of us are tired of this SJW crap being pushed down our throat at every turn, and now its happening in our most beloved game! Can't you understand that? And if you still cant understand it, believe me you WILL. One day the SJW monster will come for you and then it will be too late to do anything about it.
3. You say its just a few lines, but the inteview that I posted tells a different story. It tells the story of change in direction for political means. I understand that each writer will bring their own political view to their work, but there is a way this can be done in a non-intrusive way. HINT: Do not advertise your political views on release date in a spiteful manner while shitting on the foundations many people hold close to their heart.
4. To make things worse, Beamdog took a jab at GamerGate, and their writer came off in full support of SJW narrative. If it isn't clear to you by everything I wrote why this is bad for gaming, I dont know what else to tell you. Imagine politics you disagree with being pushed into the thing you cherish the most. If you are a SJW and somebody was pushing into your favorite game pro-GamerGate messages, don't tell me you wouldn't get pissed off. Also you cannot tell me you would not storm the developer's forums, because I have personally seen you do far worse. Like calling people you disagree with at their workplace and trying to get them fired.
5. I decided I will keep my copy that I bought off Steam and I will give the game a fair chance. I will try to look at it with an open mind, but if it ends up being another feminist political pamphlet, Beamdog will lose a loyal fan. Why? Because I don't like playing badly written characters whose only purpose is to serve as feminist promotional pamphlets. If that makes me sexist and a neckbearded misogynist, then so be it. I still stand by what i wrote.
Beamdog is relatively small company with passion and interest in bringing games that most of the world has forgotten about back into the limelight. They, we, *I* believe that these games surpass in content, in thought, in ability, in execution and in what makes an RPG an RPG much of what is being produced today. Name another game that was considered better that PS:T in story or BG2 in story execution and game play and the date it was released....then pick which of those games you honestly believe will hold that title for as long as BG2 or PS:T did.
While you may be right about your concept that no one looks at metacritic before buying a game, we're not Bioware, we're not EA Games, we're not Blizzard Entertainment. The difference between a 20 million dollar release and a 20 million dollar release short a couple thousand bucks for the one off people who happened to not realize Video game reviews are about as useful as t**s on a boar is pretty small.
When you're talking about thousands of players and and buyers, that thousand bucks for the one off people gets a bit more problematic.
It's also tough to watch people lambast your hard work without feeling a need to step in and say something...which is the only reason I responded to anything in any of the God forsaken "review" threads.
I'm going back to helping users and try my damndest to stay away from the discussion topics. As someone who put a year of effort into this game, to tell you that what I'm reading now is...disheartening...would be an understatement.
I can't imagine how the president of the company might feel.
No, it's not my first day on the internet. I had rather hoped this small community of game lovers might be a little less 4 chan and a little more...I don't know...humane?
Maybe I had forgotten in my time away from posting that the forums here are no different than anywhere else around the internet. That anywhere on the internet there will always be a mass of opinions and the loudest of those will always be the most controversial.
Well I can only speak for myself, but I think any true fan of the games will appreciate what you and the others have done with SoD, regardless of this pointless controversy. Keep up the good work and try not to let the gibberlings get you down.
The problem is that the "president" should have known who they're hiring... There's so much controversy with SJW, so why risk hiring someone like them? I'm going through the game right now and I'm liking a lot, except for all the gender polidicks everyone's complaining about; and I agree. I just learnt of SJW today and from the looks of it, they're nothing but trouble...
The mistake was obvious: why hire SJW? They messed up hard, very hard, hiring someone so... disgusting... all I get from male-female interactions in the game is: "I'm a female, so I'm better than everyone else, and if you don't suck up to me I won't even look at you because I don't need you.". And the other thing I see in male-female interaction is the guy only wanting to get in the girls' pants and being rejected. This is teen... There are no mature conversations... They pretty much put p**sy on pedestals while the males in the game don't really get a say in anything... Other than that, the game's great! I just wish I wouldn't be subjected to such disgust...
Have you played the game? Can you give any examples?
You know, there was a similar controversy on the opposite end of the spectrum when Pillars of Eternity came out, though it never gained traction. Backers were allowed to compose most of the plagues in the crypts, and write a short poem or the like. One of them happened to essentially have the same basic theme as "Lola" by The Kinks or "The Crying Game". Essentially, a man takes a woman home to bed and finds out that she is, in fact, a man. There was a minor call for that to be pulled from the game, and I stuck up for it staying in, because it was obvious there was no malice involved in it's inclusion. The anti-SWJ brigade could possibly learn something from that last sentence. Amber Scott isn't trying to ruin your life, or your game....and if you think she is, maybe it's best to look in a mirror, because everything you are feeling is projection....
Ok, this will be the last post I make on this subject, but it will be a thorough one - which I hope clarifies where the criticism is coming from. I seriously hope Beamdog and other developers read this and learn from it, because it is coming from a die hard BG fan who means no harm to anyone - and honestly I just want to play good games (like the original BG and BG2). 1. Nobody (or at least not a significant number of people) is complaining about 1 or 2 lines with a transgender character in the game. This is the narrative of spin doctors, strawmen artists and other people who have nothing intelligent to contribute to the debate. Most people who complain have probably not even played the game. Most people are probably here after reading the dreadful interview on Kotaku by one of Beamdog's writers who said some incredibly inflamatory things about original BG, its characters and what's worse she said it in a spiteful manner that was bound to rub some people off the wrong way. Here is the link to the interview: http://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-back-baldur-s-gate-after-17-years-1768303595
When you call the original game sexist, when you call one of the original characters a sex object, when you describe the other one as the "nagging wife", and to top it off you even say you don't care what people will think of the changes you wanted to implement from that feminist perspective, you come off as a douchebag who has no respect for the original material. When you shit on your own foundations, is it strange that the fans of the originals will get upset and worried about where the franchise is going?
2. For those of you who still think that this criticism has no foundation and that people are over-reacting, I have to ask you - on which planet have you been living for the last 10-15 years? This is not the first time the "regressive" feminists are pushing their agenda into art. People had these same debates in the movie industry, then it was the music industry, then it was the comic industry with "lets change the original characters like Thor and Spiderman into women", then it was the atheist community with Atheism +, then they came to the gaming industry and this is where a lot of people said "ENOUGH!" We had Gamergate, we had Anita Sarkeesian shitting all over gaming industry how its sexist, we had gaming journalists calling gamers sexist pigs, misogonysts, and worse! We had feminist journalists advocating for the rights of pedophiles because some SJWs are documented pedophiles, we had feminists SJWs joining forces with Islamist extremists and calling anyone who is worried about Islamic extremism a racist,... AND PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT! Its the same shit every time! They stir up the hornets nest, people get pissed and fire back with arguments, and the regressive feminist SJWs just brush it off as "you are a racist, you hate trans people, you are this and that!" Many of us are tired of this SJW crap being pushed down our throat at every turn, and now its happening in our most beloved game!
3. You say its just a few lines, but the inteview that I posted tells a different story. It tells the story of change in direction for political means. I understand that each writer will bring their own political view to their work, but there is a way this can be done in a non-intrusive way. HINT: Do not advertise your political views on release date in a spiteful manner while shitting on the foundations many people hold close to their heart.
4. To make things worse, Beamdog took a jab at GamerGate, and their writer came off in full support of SJW narrative. If it isn't clear to you by everything I wrote why this is bad for gaming, I dont know what else to tell you. Imagine politics you disagree with being pushed into the thing you cherish the most. If you are a SJW and somebody was pushing into your favorite game pro-GamerGate messages, don't tell me you wouldn't get pissed off. Also you cannot tell me you would not storm the developer's forums, because I have personally seen you do far worse. Like calling people you disagree with at their workplace and trying to get them fired.
5. I decided I will keep my copy that I bought off Steam and I will give the game a fair chance. I will try to look at it with an open mind, but if it ends up being another feminist political pamphlet, Beamdog will lose a loyal fan. Why? Because I don't like playing badly written characters whose only purpose is to serve as feminist promotional pamphlets.
I swear to god if I hear the word "regressive" one more time this year my head is going to explode. It's the new catch phrase to make your arguments about political correctness seem intellectual and well-meaning. When people complain about "political correctness", what they are really saying is they are pissed they can't demean minority groups without any public backlash whatsoever. They want their speech, but they don't want to hear from YOU about it at all, and they want no consequences....
You guys do know that Metacritic's review system is easily abused? It has been done in the past easily, so I wouldn't give it much merit.
Instead, I'd look around for people who've done single reviews themselves and post videos actually trying out the game.
Can a game that comes out in 2016 seriously meet the standards of one of the greatest CRPGs ever made? No. But the expansion looks to be of something that meets expectations the closest.
Assuming we ignore the fact that two CRPGs, one still in early access, have already done a far better job living up to the family name so to speak.
It can be done and it can be done far better than this. A bit of a shame, but I think it is good we learn this now, so the flop that would be BG3 doesn't end up hurting the genre overall.
Okay, I understand your point. Which two CRPGs are you talking about though?
PoE and the new torment game. The latter does depart a bit more from the traditional formulas but is stronger for it imo.
Ok, this will be the last post I make on this subject, but it will be a thorough one - which I hope clarifies where the criticism is coming from. I seriously hope Beamdog and other developers read this and learn from it, because it is coming from a die hard BG fan who means no harm to anyone - and honestly I just want to play good games (like the original BG and BG2). 1. Nobody (or at least not a significant number of people) is complaining about 1 or 2 lines with a transgender character in the game. This is the narrative of spin doctors, strawmen artists and other people who have nothing intelligent to contribute to the debate. Most people who complain have probably not even played the game. Most people are probably here after reading the dreadful interview on Kotaku by one of Beamdog's writers who said some incredibly inflamatory things about original BG, its characters and what's worse she said it in a spiteful manner that was bound to rub some people off the wrong way. Here is the link to the interview: http://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-back-baldur-s-gate-after-17-years-1768303595
When you call the original game sexist, when you call one of the original characters a sex object, when you describe the other one as the "nagging wife", and to top it off you even say you don't care what people will think of the changes you wanted to implement from that feminist perspective, you come off as a douchebag who has no respect for the original material. When you shit on your own foundations, is it strange that the fans of the originals will get upset and worried about where the franchise is going?
2. For those of you who still think that this criticism has no foundation and that people are over-reacting, I have to ask you - on which planet have you been living for the last 10-15 years? This is not the first time the "regressive" feminists are pushing their agenda into art. People had these same debates in the movie industry, then it was the music industry, then it was the comic industry with "lets change the original characters like Thor and Spiderman into women", then it was the atheist community with Atheism +, then they came to the gaming industry and this is where a lot of people said "ENOUGH!" We had Gamergate, we had Anita Sarkeesian shitting all over gaming industry how its sexist, we had gaming journalists calling gamers sexist pigs, misogonysts, and worse! We had feminist journalists advocating for the rights of pedophiles because some SJWs are documented pedophiles, we had feminists SJWs joining forces with Islamist extremists and calling anyone who is worried about Islamic extremism a racist,... AND PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT! Its the same shit every time! They stir up the hornets nest, people get pissed and fire back with arguments, and the regressive feminist SJWs just brush it off as "you are a racist, you hate trans people, you are this and that!" Many of us are tired of this SJW crap being pushed down our throat at every turn, and now its happening in our most beloved game!
3. You say its just a few lines, but the inteview that I posted tells a different story. It tells the story of change in direction for political means. I understand that each writer will bring their own political view to their work, but there is a way this can be done in a non-intrusive way. HINT: Do not advertise your political views on release date in a spiteful manner while shitting on the foundations many people hold close to their heart.
4. To make things worse, Beamdog took a jab at GamerGate, and their writer came off in full support of SJW narrative. If it isn't clear to you by everything I wrote why this is bad for gaming, I dont know what else to tell you. Imagine politics you disagree with being pushed into the thing you cherish the most. If you are a SJW and somebody was pushing into your favorite game pro-GamerGate messages, don't tell me you wouldn't get pissed off. Also you cannot tell me you would not storm the developer's forums, because I have personally seen you do far worse. Like calling people you disagree with at their workplace and trying to get them fired.
5. I decided I will keep my copy that I bought off Steam and I will give the game a fair chance. I will try to look at it with an open mind, but if it ends up being another feminist political pamphlet, Beamdog will lose a loyal fan. Why? Because I don't like playing badly written characters whose only purpose is to serve as feminist promotional pamphlets.
I swear to god if I hear the word "regressive" one more time this year my head is going to explode. It's the new catch phrase to make your arguments about political correctness seem intellectual and well-meaning. When people complain about "political correctness", what they are really saying is they are pissed they can't demean minority groups without any public backlash whatsoever. They want their speech, but they don't want to hear from YOU about it at all, and they want no consequences....
See? This is what I am was saying. When you have 0 arguments you will call people names, you will concoct some hidden meaning behind my words that does not exist and dance a victory dance. Please tell me how is this not regressive?!
I have no ill intent on minority groups. Some of my best friends are gay. I dont have a transexual friend, but I have nothing against them. But none of this matters. You already have your narrative and nothing I write will change that.
Well thanks for giving a live example at what a regressive leftist looks like.
I swear to god if I hear the word "regressive" one more time this year my head is going to explode. It's the new catch phrase to make your arguments about political correctness seem intellectual and well-meaning. When people complain about "political correctness", what they are really saying is they are pissed they can't demean minority groups without any public backlash whatsoever.
That is really not true at all, and by imputing motives on a whole swath of people you're just going to create more animosity. DAve Rubin, who popularized the term "regressive", is one of the most well-meaning people I know of in the media.
Ok, this will be the last post I make on this subject, but it will be a thorough one - which I hope clarifies where the criticism is coming from. I seriously hope Beamdog and other developers read this and learn from it, because it is coming from a die hard BG fan who means no harm to anyone - and honestly I just want to play good games (like the original BG and BG2). 1. Nobody (or at least not a significant number of people) is complaining about 1 or 2 lines with a transgender character in the game. This is the narrative of spin doctors, strawmen artists and other people who have nothing intelligent to contribute to the debate. Most people who complain have probably not even played the game. Most people are probably here after reading the dreadful interview on Kotaku by one of Beamdog's writers who said some incredibly inflamatory things about original BG, its characters and what's worse she said it in a spiteful manner that was bound to rub some people off the wrong way. Here is the link to the interview: http://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-back-baldur-s-gate-after-17-years-1768303595
When you call the original game sexist, when you call one of the original characters a sex object, when you describe the other one as the "nagging wife", and to top it off you even say you don't care what people will think of the changes you wanted to implement from that feminist perspective, you come off as a douchebag who has no respect for the original material. When you shit on your own foundations, is it strange that the fans of the originals will get upset and worried about where the franchise is going?
2. For those of you who still think that this criticism has no foundation and that people are over-reacting, I have to ask you - on which planet have you been living for the last 10-15 years? This is not the first time the "regressive" feminists are pushing their agenda into art. People had these same debates in the movie industry, then it was the music industry, then it was the comic industry with "lets change the original characters like Thor and Spiderman into women", then it was the atheist community with Atheism +, then they came to the gaming industry and this is where a lot of people said "ENOUGH!" We had Gamergate, we had Anita Sarkeesian shitting all over gaming industry how its sexist, we had gaming journalists calling gamers sexist pigs, misogonysts, and worse! We had feminist journalists advocating for the rights of pedophiles because some SJWs are documented pedophiles, we had feminists SJWs joining forces with Islamist extremists and calling anyone who is worried about Islamic extremism a racist,... AND PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT! Its the same shit every time! They stir up the hornets nest, people get pissed and fire back with arguments, and the regressive feminist SJWs just brush it off as "you are a racist, you hate trans people, you are this and that!" Many of us are tired of this SJW crap being pushed down our throat at every turn, and now its happening in our most beloved game!
3. You say its just a few lines, but the inteview that I posted tells a different story. It tells the story of change in direction for political means. I understand that each writer will bring their own political view to their work, but there is a way this can be done in a non-intrusive way. HINT: Do not advertise your political views on release date in a spiteful manner while shitting on the foundations many people hold close to their heart.
4. To make things worse, Beamdog took a jab at GamerGate, and their writer came off in full support of SJW narrative. If it isn't clear to you by everything I wrote why this is bad for gaming, I dont know what else to tell you. Imagine politics you disagree with being pushed into the thing you cherish the most. If you are a SJW and somebody was pushing into your favorite game pro-GamerGate messages, don't tell me you wouldn't get pissed off. Also you cannot tell me you would not storm the developer's forums, because I have personally seen you do far worse. Like calling people you disagree with at their workplace and trying to get them fired.
5. I decided I will keep my copy that I bought off Steam and I will give the game a fair chance. I will try to look at it with an open mind, but if it ends up being another feminist political pamphlet, Beamdog will lose a loyal fan. Why? Because I don't like playing badly written characters whose only purpose is to serve as feminist promotional pamphlets.
I swear to god if I hear the word "regressive" one more time this year my head is going to explode. It's the new catch phrase to make your arguments about political correctness seem intellectual and well-meaning. When people complain about "political correctness", what they are really saying is they are pissed they can't demean minority groups without any public backlash whatsoever. They want their speech, but they don't want to hear from YOU about it at all, and they want no consequences....
See? This is what I am was saying. When you have 0 arguments you will call people names, you will concoct some hidden meaning behind my words that does not exist and dance a victory dance. Please tell me how is this not regressive?!
I have no ill intent on minority groups. Some of my best friends are gay. I dont have a transexual friend, but I have nothing against them. But none of this matters. You already have your narrative and nothing I write will change that.
Well thanks for giving a live example at what a regressive leftist looks like.
The "regressive left" as you put it is a total straw-man. It has next to no application to real-life. It is the battlefield of Youtube comment sections and internet forums. And this discussion is proof-positive. It's a bullshit war we're fighting out in a completely separate world from the one we all actually live in. There is not one instance in your actual, tangible life where you will be negatively affected by a "regressive leftist". It won't happen. Meanwhile, in the real world, trans people are beat up for being so, do lose jobs, can't find housing. For god sakes, there was a story a few days ago about a interracial couple in Mississippi being thrown out of their trailer home because the owner of the trailer park didn't approve of their relationship. You know, ACTUAL problems that exist in everyday life that ACTUALLY affect people's lives....
I swear to god if I hear the word "regressive" one more time this year my head is going to explode. It's the new catch phrase to make your arguments about political correctness seem intellectual and well-meaning. When people complain about "political correctness", what they are really saying is they are pissed they can't demean minority groups without any public backlash whatsoever.
That is really not true at all, and by imputing motives on a whole swath of people you're just going to create more animosity. DAve Rubin, who popularized the term "regressive", is one of the most well-meaning people I know of in the media.
I'm quite familiar with Dave Rubin, and it will come as no shock I mostly find him insufferable. But I'm quite glad he left the Young Turks so he can spend more time hanging out with Sam Harris and Milo Yiannopoulos....
"Risk"? The anti-SJW crowd likes to talk themselves up like they're capable of doing anything besides filling forum pages, but last I checked, their actual accomplishments can be summed up with a big fat zero. Nothing's changed in game journalism, women are still having opinions on the Internet, and Toby Fox is laughing all the way to the bank.
Rage on if you want to, but don't delude yourself into thinking that's ever going to get you what you want.
That's just uninformed nonsense, GamerGate has been wildly successful in accomplishing its goals. It funded a game jam to help get women involved in the industry after the SJWs shut it down, it got numerous sites to publish and/or update their ethics policies, it helped to launch several alternative games journalism outlets that are doing an excellent job, and it received official recognition from Society of Professional Journalism as to the validity of its complaints. So, I'm guessing that "the last time you checked" was never. It could hardly have been more successful.
Ok, this will be the last post I make on this subject, but it will be a thorough one - which I hope clarifies where the criticism is coming from. I seriously hope Beamdog and other developers read this and learn from it, because it is coming from a die hard BG fan who means no harm to anyone - and honestly I just want to play good games (like the original BG and BG2). 1. Nobody (or at least not a significant number of people) is complaining about 1 or 2 lines with a transgender character in the game. This is the narrative of spin doctors, strawmen artists and other people who have nothing intelligent to contribute to the debate. Most people who complain have probably not even played the game. Most people are probably here after reading the dreadful interview on Kotaku by one of Beamdog's writers who said some incredibly inflamatory things about original BG, its characters and what's worse she said it in a spiteful manner that was bound to rub some people off the wrong way. Here is the link to the interview: http://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-back-baldur-s-gate-after-17-years-1768303595
When you call the original game sexist, when you call one of the original characters a sex object, when you describe the other one as the "nagging wife", and to top it off you even say you don't care what people will think of the changes you wanted to implement from that feminist perspective, you come off as a douchebag who has no respect for the original material. When you shit on your own foundations, is it strange that the fans of the originals will get upset and worried about where the franchise is going?
2. For those of you who still think that this criticism has no foundation and that people are over-reacting, I have to ask you - on which planet have you been living for the last 10-15 years? This is not the first time the "regressive" feminists are pushing their agenda into art. People had these same debates in the movie industry, then it was the music industry, then it was the comic industry with "lets change the original characters like Thor and Spiderman into women", then it was the atheist community with Atheism +, then they came to the gaming industry and this is where a lot of people said "ENOUGH!" We had Gamergate, we had Anita Sarkeesian shitting all over gaming industry how its sexist, we had gaming journalists calling gamers sexist pigs, misogonysts, and worse! We had feminist journalists advocating for the rights of pedophiles because some SJWs are documented pedophiles, we had feminists SJWs joining forces with Islamist extremists and calling anyone who is worried about Islamic extremism a racist,... AND PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT! Its the same shit every time! They stir up the hornets nest, people get pissed and fire back with arguments, and the regressive feminist SJWs just brush it off as "you are a racist, you hate trans people, you are this and that!" Many of us are tired of this SJW crap being pushed down our throat at every turn, and now its happening in our most beloved game!
3. You say its just a few lines, but the inteview that I posted tells a different story. It tells the story of change in direction for political means. I understand that each writer will bring their own political view to their work, but there is a way this can be done in a non-intrusive way. HINT: Do not advertise your political views on release date in a spiteful manner while shitting on the foundations many people hold close to their heart.
4. To make things worse, Beamdog took a jab at GamerGate, and their writer came off in full support of SJW narrative. If it isn't clear to you by everything I wrote why this is bad for gaming, I dont know what else to tell you. Imagine politics you disagree with being pushed into the thing you cherish the most. If you are a SJW and somebody was pushing into your favorite game pro-GamerGate messages, don't tell me you wouldn't get pissed off. Also you cannot tell me you would not storm the developer's forums, because I have personally seen you do far worse. Like calling people you disagree with at their workplace and trying to get them fired.
5. I decided I will keep my copy that I bought off Steam and I will give the game a fair chance. I will try to look at it with an open mind, but if it ends up being another feminist political pamphlet, Beamdog will lose a loyal fan. Why? Because I don't like playing badly written characters whose only purpose is to serve as feminist promotional pamphlets.
I swear to god if I hear the word "regressive" one more time this year my head is going to explode. It's the new catch phrase to make your arguments about political correctness seem intellectual and well-meaning. When people complain about "political correctness", what they are really saying is they are pissed they can't demean minority groups without any public backlash whatsoever. They want their speech, but they don't want to hear from YOU about it at all, and they want no consequences....
See? This is what I am was saying. When you have 0 arguments you will call people names, you will concoct some hidden meaning behind my words that does not exist and dance a victory dance. Please tell me how is this not regressive?!
I have no ill intent on minority groups. Some of my best friends are gay. I dont have a transexual friend, but I have nothing against them. But none of this matters. You already have your narrative and nothing I write will change that.
Well thanks for giving a live example at what a regressive leftist looks like.
The "regressive left" as you put it is a total straw-man. It has next to no application to real-life. It is the battlefield of Youtube comment sections and internet forums.
It has application in many colleges today, where students use the heckler's veto to disallow people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali to speak.
I can hardly believe what I'm seeing in this topic. Social justice warriors are crazy, true, but people who actively oppose them in such manner are no less crazy. Why both sides cannot be rational, I don't know. I do see however, that they prefer to bark at each other, ignoring the fact that in doing so they aren't going to accomplish anything.
One side will react emotionally, the other will use invalid argumentation. Being offended because someone is having different opinion is immature. And "I know people who are xxx, yyy" isn't argumentation at all.
I believe that SJWs and whatever-their-opposition-is-called should have more serious matters to discuss than writing in the videogame. But hey, people do have irrational need to feel offended about things.
Ok, this will be the last post I make on this subject, but it will be a thorough one - which I hope clarifies where the criticism is coming from. I seriously hope Beamdog and other developers read this and learn from it, because it is coming from a die hard BG fan who means no harm to anyone - and honestly I just want to play good games (like the original BG and BG2). 1. Nobody (or at least not a significant number of people) is complaining about 1 or 2 lines with a transgender character in the game. This is the narrative of spin doctors, strawmen artists and other people who have nothing intelligent to contribute to the debate. Most people who complain have probably not even played the game. Most people are probably here after reading the dreadful interview on Kotaku by one of Beamdog's writers who said some incredibly inflamatory things about original BG, its characters and what's worse she said it in a spiteful manner that was bound to rub some people off the wrong way. Here is the link to the interview: http://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-back-baldur-s-gate-after-17-years-1768303595
When you call the original game sexist, when you call one of the original characters a sex object, when you describe the other one as the "nagging wife", and to top it off you even say you don't care what people will think of the changes you wanted to implement from that feminist perspective, you come off as a douchebag who has no respect for the original material. When you shit on your own foundations, is it strange that the fans of the originals will get upset and worried about where the franchise is going?
2. For those of you who still think that this criticism has no foundation and that people are over-reacting, I have to ask you - on which planet have you been living for the last 10-15 years? This is not the first time the "regressive" feminists are pushing their agenda into art. People had these same debates in the movie industry, then it was the music industry, then it was the comic industry with "lets change the original characters like Thor and Spiderman into women", then it was the atheist community with Atheism +, then they came to the gaming industry and this is where a lot of people said "ENOUGH!" We had Gamergate, we had Anita Sarkeesian shitting all over gaming industry how its sexist, we had gaming journalists calling gamers sexist pigs, misogonysts, and worse! We had feminist journalists advocating for the rights of pedophiles because some SJWs are documented pedophiles, we had feminists SJWs joining forces with Islamist extremists and calling anyone who is worried about Islamic extremism a racist,... AND PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT! Its the same shit every time! They stir up the hornets nest, people get pissed and fire back with arguments, and the regressive feminist SJWs just brush it off as "you are a racist, you hate trans people, you are this and that!" Many of us are tired of this SJW crap being pushed down our throat at every turn, and now its happening in our most beloved game!
3. You say its just a few lines, but the inteview that I posted tells a different story. It tells the story of change in direction for political means. I understand that each writer will bring their own political view to their work, but there is a way this can be done in a non-intrusive way. HINT: Do not advertise your political views on release date in a spiteful manner while shitting on the foundations many people hold close to their heart.
4. To make things worse, Beamdog took a jab at GamerGate, and their writer came off in full support of SJW narrative. If it isn't clear to you by everything I wrote why this is bad for gaming, I dont know what else to tell you. Imagine politics you disagree with being pushed into the thing you cherish the most. If you are a SJW and somebody was pushing into your favorite game pro-GamerGate messages, don't tell me you wouldn't get pissed off. Also you cannot tell me you would not storm the developer's forums, because I have personally seen you do far worse. Like calling people you disagree with at their workplace and trying to get them fired.
5. I decided I will keep my copy that I bought off Steam and I will give the game a fair chance. I will try to look at it with an open mind, but if it ends up being another feminist political pamphlet, Beamdog will lose a loyal fan. Why? Because I don't like playing badly written characters whose only purpose is to serve as feminist promotional pamphlets.
I swear to god if I hear the word "regressive" one more time this year my head is going to explode. It's the new catch phrase to make your arguments about political correctness seem intellectual and well-meaning. When people complain about "political correctness", what they are really saying is they are pissed they can't demean minority groups without any public backlash whatsoever. They want their speech, but they don't want to hear from YOU about it at all, and they want no consequences....
See? This is what I am was saying. When you have 0 arguments you will call people names, you will concoct some hidden meaning behind my words that does not exist and dance a victory dance. Please tell me how is this not regressive?!
I have no ill intent on minority groups. Some of my best friends are gay. I dont have a transexual friend, but I have nothing against them. But none of this matters. You already have your narrative and nothing I write will change that.
Well thanks for giving a live example at what a regressive leftist looks like.
The "regressive left" as you put it is a total straw-man. It has next to no application to real-life. It is the battlefield of Youtube comment sections and internet forums. And this discussion is proof-positive. It's a bullshit war we're fighting out in a completely separate world from the one we all actually live in. There is not one instance in your actual, tangible life where you will be negatively affected by a "regressive leftist". It won't happen. Meanwhile, in the real world, trans people are beat up for being so, do lose jobs, can't find housing. For god sakes, there was a story a few days ago about a interracial couple in Mississippi being thrown out of their trailer home because the owner of the trailer park didn't approve of their relationship. You know, ACTUAL problems that exist in everyday life that ACTUALLY affect people's lives....
Dont preach me about first world problems. You want to talk about first world problems, why dont you mention your feminist friends who complain about manspreading, mansplaining or strategic butt coverings in gaming.
I for one am well aware of actual problems that exist, and talking against the regressive left which at every turn tries to sabotage any serious discusssion with their strawmen ad hominems, is definately a problem because it has become impossible to talk about anything without being branded a "phobe" of some sorts. At the same time they have infiltrated art, education, journalism, and are polluting everything they touch. This here debate is just a tiny, tiny fraction of the bigger picture.
Furthermore, this might be newsflash to your tiny regressive mind, but my brain is more than capable about worrying both about real ACTUAL issues that affect real people and problems in the gaming industry. You know, some people can do two or more things at the same time.
I can hardly believe what I'm seeing in this topic. Social justice warriors are crazy, true, but people who actively oppose them in such manner are no less crazy. Why both sides cannot be rational, I don't know. I do see however, that they prefer to bark at each other, ignoring the fact that in doing so they aren't going to accomplish anything.
One side will react emotionally, the other will use invalid argumentation. Being offended because someone is having different opinion is immature. And "I know people who are xxx, yyy" isn't argumentation at all.
I believe that SJWs and whatever-their-opposition-is-called should have more serious matters to discuss than writing in the videogame. But hey, people do have irrational need to feel offended about things.
I dont know what comments you have been reading, but 1 side is giving arguments, while the other is screaming "racist", "transphobe", etc. I know its very comfortable to sit on the fence and pretend you have the moral highground by being neutral, but sometimes that is just turning a blind eye to the real offenders.
Ok, this will be the last post I make on this subject, but it will be a thorough one - which I hope clarifies where the criticism is coming from. I seriously hope Beamdog and other developers read this and learn from it, because it is coming from a die hard BG fan who means no harm to anyone - and honestly I just want to play good games (like the original BG and BG2). 1. Nobody (or at least not a significant number of people) is complaining about 1 or 2 lines with a transgender character in the game. This is the narrative of spin doctors, strawmen artists and other people who have nothing intelligent to contribute to the debate. Most people who complain have probably not even played the game. Most people are probably here after reading the dreadful interview on Kotaku by one of Beamdog's writers who said some incredibly inflamatory things about original BG, its characters and what's worse she said it in a spiteful manner that was bound to rub some people off the wrong way. Here is the link to the interview: http://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-back-baldur-s-gate-after-17-years-1768303595
When you call the original game sexist, when you call one of the original characters a sex object, when you describe the other one as the "nagging wife", and to top it off you even say you don't care what people will think of the changes you wanted to implement from that feminist perspective, you come off as a douchebag who has no respect for the original material. When you shit on your own foundations, is it strange that the fans of the originals will get upset and worried about where the franchise is going?
2. For those of you who still think that this criticism has no foundation and that people are over-reacting, I have to ask you - on which planet have you been living for the last 10-15 years? This is not the first time the "regressive" feminists are pushing their agenda into art. People had these same debates in the movie industry, then it was the music industry, then it was the comic industry with "lets change the original characters like Thor and Spiderman into women", then it was the atheist community with Atheism +, then they came to the gaming industry and this is where a lot of people said "ENOUGH!" We had Gamergate, we had Anita Sarkeesian shitting all over gaming industry how its sexist, we had gaming journalists calling gamers sexist pigs, misogonysts, and worse! We had feminist journalists advocating for the rights of pedophiles because some SJWs are documented pedophiles, we had feminists SJWs joining forces with Islamist extremists and calling anyone who is worried about Islamic extremism a racist,... AND PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT! Its the same shit every time! They stir up the hornets nest, people get pissed and fire back with arguments, and the regressive feminist SJWs just brush it off as "you are a racist, you hate trans people, you are this and that!" Many of us are tired of this SJW crap being pushed down our throat at every turn, and now its happening in our most beloved game!
3. You say its just a few lines, but the inteview that I posted tells a different story. It tells the story of change in direction for political means. I understand that each writer will bring their own political view to their work, but there is a way this can be done in a non-intrusive way. HINT: Do not advertise your political views on release date in a spiteful manner while shitting on the foundations many people hold close to their heart.
4. To make things worse, Beamdog took a jab at GamerGate, and their writer came off in full support of SJW narrative. If it isn't clear to you by everything I wrote why this is bad for gaming, I dont know what else to tell you. Imagine politics you disagree with being pushed into the thing you cherish the most. If you are a SJW and somebody was pushing into your favorite game pro-GamerGate messages, don't tell me you wouldn't get pissed off. Also you cannot tell me you would not storm the developer's forums, because I have personally seen you do far worse. Like calling people you disagree with at their workplace and trying to get them fired.
5. I decided I will keep my copy that I bought off Steam and I will give the game a fair chance. I will try to look at it with an open mind, but if it ends up being another feminist political pamphlet, Beamdog will lose a loyal fan. Why? Because I don't like playing badly written characters whose only purpose is to serve as feminist promotional pamphlets.
I swear to god if I hear the word "regressive" one more time this year my head is going to explode. It's the new catch phrase to make your arguments about political correctness seem intellectual and well-meaning. When people complain about "political correctness", what they are really saying is they are pissed they can't demean minority groups without any public backlash whatsoever. They want their speech, but they don't want to hear from YOU about it at all, and they want no consequences....
See? This is what I am was saying. When you have 0 arguments you will call people names, you will concoct some hidden meaning behind my words that does not exist and dance a victory dance. Please tell me how is this not regressive?!
I have no ill intent on minority groups. Some of my best friends are gay. I dont have a transexual friend, but I have nothing against them. But none of this matters. You already have your narrative and nothing I write will change that.
Well thanks for giving a live example at what a regressive leftist looks like.
The "regressive left" as you put it is a total straw-man. It has next to no application to real-life. It is the battlefield of Youtube comment sections and internet forums. And this discussion is proof-positive. It's a bullshit war we're fighting out in a completely separate world from the one we all actually live in. There is not one instance in your actual, tangible life where you will be negatively affected by a "regressive leftist". It won't happen. Meanwhile, in the real world, trans people are beat up for being so, do lose jobs, can't find housing. For god sakes, there was a story a few days ago about a interracial couple in Mississippi being thrown out of their trailer home because the owner of the trailer park didn't approve of their relationship. You know, ACTUAL problems that exist in everyday life that ACTUALLY affect people's lives....
Dont preach me about first world problems. You want to talk about first world problems, why dont you mention your feminist friends who complain about manspreading, mansplaining or strategic butt coverings in gaming.
I for one am well aware of actual problems that exist, and talking against the regressive left which at every turn tries to sabotage any serious discusssion with their strawmen ad hominems, is definately a problem because it has become impossible to talk about anything without being branded a "phobe" of some sorts. At the same time they have infiltrated art, education, journalism, and are polluting everything they touch. This here debate is just a tiny, tiny fraction of the bigger picture.
Furthermore, this might be newsflash to your tiny regressive mind, but my brain is more than capable about worrying both about real ACTUAL issues that affect real people and problems in the gaming industry. You know, some people can do two or more things at the same time.
Make sure you throw the word "regressive" into every post at least 3 times. I think it's a rule....
Comments
This is taken from Deities & Demigods ADnD 1E, I believe. It was uploaded by someone on Facebook in a similar discussion about trans people in 5E, so not sure. Emphasis mine.
Being a trans was a thing since 1E. It's nothing new to BG or Forgotten Realms.
This is compounded by the profound lack of respect the developer has shown for both the original game and the people who made it. To be so arrogant as to think this expansion even comes close to what the originals offer, much less to use it as a means to disparage the originals, is something I cannot support.
Beamdog isn't black isle. They could not have made BG themselves, as shown by the fact beamdog continues to live off the franchise name. If your entire second rate development team wants to live off a franchise made by your betters, you should at least show respect for those whose talents eclipse your own.
I know that there are a "bazillion" of messages like this one and most people haven't the time to read it but it is ok, (just because that, there is a lot of post just like this one) but I felf the need to post anyways.
First of all I'm gratefull to see one of the best games in the "humankind games industry short history", at least for my taste, to get this expansion... it is true, totally true, that it is still buggy (And I'm hoping for news of some 2.01 patch or something like that with most of the remaining bugs fixed... any date about that would be so lovely by the way).... but we have to remember that these guys just CREATED new content, a 20-30 hours DLC for something that many of us thought it was extincted so many years ago.
Part of me is sad to see that something so sacred for me like Baldurs Gate... it gets so much hate and trolling in some forums just because people is not ok with this or that in the game. But I guess that in the actual time of trolling, haters and flawed society nothing is sacred now, even harmless stuff like have a little fun alone or with friends in some Dungeons & Dragons.
In any case I think that is not something happening just here in this game or this DLC.. it is more like a synthom of these days... political stuff is everywhere and we have to accept it. (No matter witch side is each one).
For that reason I think that the devs have to trust what they created and let their product to talk for them. A LOT of people will play the game and it will be the game that will talk to the people about how is the product. (Yes, Im talking here like a 5 year child in this momment but... you know...).
I think that the devs dont need to go into the fight in the social media because that is what trolls just wants... if the devs go down to their lvl and argue with them.... it will be like getting dirty when there is no need at all.
In any case it is true that no work is perfect yes, it is true that expectations are so hight that it is not easy to supress feelings.. but in any case, as player of Dungeons and Dragons (and maybe some day a nwn2 server admin if I manage to finish with so many goddawn scripts) I can say that I'm in love with this idea and product of this BG EE DLC.
My congratulations to the dev team and hoping to see some patch for bugs and some adaptation to other languajes in the future for the Siege of Dragonspear.
Note they did not get the writers, the ones who they did disparage and insult. If I felt particularly mean, and I think I do, I might even point out they really didn't get any of the people whose creativity and general skill actually made the original games such successes.
Instead, I'd look around for people who've done single reviews themselves and post videos actually trying out the game.
Can a game that comes out in 2016 seriously meet the standards of one of the greatest CRPGs ever made? No. But the expansion looks to be of something that meets expectations the closest.
It can be done and it can be done far better than this. A bit of a shame, but I think it is good we learn this now, so the flop that would be BG3 doesn't end up hurting the genre overall.
The problem is that the "president" should have known who they're hiring... There's so much controversy with SJW, so why risk hiring someone like them? I'm going through the game right now and I'm liking a lot, except for all the gender polidicks everyone's complaining about; and I agree. I just learnt of SJW today and from the looks of it, they're nothing but trouble...
The mistake was obvious: why hire SJW? They messed up hard, very hard, hiring someone so... disgusting... all I get from male-female interactions in the game is: "I'm a female, so I'm better than everyone else, and if you don't suck up to me I won't even look at you because I don't need you.". And the other thing I see in male-female interaction is the guy only wanting to get in the girls' pants and being rejected. This is teen... There are no mature conversations... They pretty much put p**sy on pedestals while the males in the game don't really get a say in anything... Other than that, the game's great! I just wish I wouldn't be subjected to such disgust...
Rage on if you want to, but don't delude yourself into thinking that's ever going to get you what you want.
1. Nobody (or at least not a significant number of people) is complaining about 1 or 2 lines with a transgender character in the game. This is the narrative of spin doctors, strawmen artists and other people who have nothing intelligent to contribute to the debate. Most people who complain have probably not even played the game. Most people are probably here after reading the dreadful interview on Kotaku by one of Beamdog's writers who said some incredibly inflamatory things about original BG, its characters and what's worse she said it in a spiteful manner that was bound to rub some people off the wrong way. Here is the link to the interview: http://kotaku.com/the-struggle-to-bring-back-baldur-s-gate-after-17-years-1768303595
When you call the original game sexist, when you call one of the original characters a sex object, when you describe the other one as the "nagging wife", and to top it off you even say you don't care what people will think of the changes you wanted to implement from that feminist perspective, you come off as a douchebag who has no respect for the original material. When you shit on your own foundations, is it strange that the fans of the originals will get upset and worried about where the franchise is going?
2. For those of you who still think that this criticism has no foundation and that people are over-reacting, I have to ask you - on which planet have you been living for the last 10-15 years? This is not the first time the "regressive" feminists are pushing their agenda into art. People had these same debates in the movie industry, then it was the music industry, then it was the comic industry with "lets change the original characters like Thor and Spiderman into women", then it was the atheist community with Atheism +, then they came to the gaming industry and this is where a lot of people said "ENOUGH!" We had Gamergate, we had Anita Sarkeesian shitting all over gaming industry how its sexist, we had gaming journalists calling gamers sexist pigs, misogonysts, and worse! We had feminist journalists advocating for the rights of pedophiles because some SJWs are documented pedophiles, we had feminists SJWs joining forces with Islamist extremists and calling anyone who is worried about Islamic extremism a racist,... AND PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT! Its the same shit every time! They stir up the hornets nest, people get pissed and fire back with arguments, and the regressive feminist SJWs just brush it off as "you are a racist, you hate trans people, you are this and that!" Many of us are tired of this SJW crap being pushed down our throat at every turn, and now its happening in our most beloved game! Can't you understand that? And if you still cant understand it, believe me you WILL. One day the SJW monster will come for you and then it will be too late to do anything about it.
3. You say its just a few lines, but the inteview that I posted tells a different story. It tells the story of change in direction for political means. I understand that each writer will bring their own political view to their work, but there is a way this can be done in a non-intrusive way. HINT: Do not advertise your political views on release date in a spiteful manner while shitting on the foundations many people hold close to their heart.
4. To make things worse, Beamdog took a jab at GamerGate, and their writer came off in full support of SJW narrative. If it isn't clear to you by everything I wrote why this is bad for gaming, I dont know what else to tell you. Imagine politics you disagree with being pushed into the thing you cherish the most. If you are a SJW and somebody was pushing into your favorite game pro-GamerGate messages, don't tell me you wouldn't get pissed off. Also you cannot tell me you would not storm the developer's forums, because I have personally seen you do far worse. Like calling people you disagree with at their workplace and trying to get them fired.
5. I decided I will keep my copy that I bought off Steam and I will give the game a fair chance. I will try to look at it with an open mind, but if it ends up being another feminist political pamphlet, Beamdog will lose a loyal fan. Why? Because I don't like playing badly written characters whose only purpose is to serve as feminist promotional pamphlets. If that makes me sexist and a neckbearded misogynist, then so be it. I still stand by what i wrote.
I have no ill intent on minority groups. Some of my best friends are gay. I dont have a transexual friend, but I have nothing against them. But none of this matters. You already have your narrative and nothing I write will change that.
Well thanks for giving a live example at what a regressive leftist looks like.
One side will react emotionally, the other will use invalid argumentation. Being offended because someone is having different opinion is immature. And "I know people who are xxx, yyy" isn't argumentation at all.
I believe that SJWs and whatever-their-opposition-is-called should have more serious matters to discuss than writing in the videogame. But hey, people do have irrational need to feel offended about things.
I for one am well aware of actual problems that exist, and talking against the regressive left which at every turn tries to sabotage any serious discusssion with their strawmen ad hominems, is definately a problem because it has become impossible to talk about anything without being branded a "phobe" of some sorts. At the same time they have infiltrated art, education, journalism, and are polluting everything they touch. This here debate is just a tiny, tiny fraction of the bigger picture.
Furthermore, this might be newsflash to your tiny regressive mind, but my brain is more than capable about worrying both about real ACTUAL issues that affect real people and problems in the gaming industry. You know, some people can do two or more things at the same time.