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Do Shamans Get Stronghold?

rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
So, as far as I can tell, the game treats Shamans as a redone Cleric. (They get a selection of Cleric spells, can equip cleric-specific items, etc.) Do Shamans therefore get the Cleric Stronghold? Do Shamans get the mage stronghold, what?

The reason I ask is because, I am doing a playthrough using @kjeron's Warlock kit ( https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/38113/class-kit-attempt-warlock/p1 ) in BGEE and SoD. I plan to bring this character to BG2EE. The way his mod is set up for v2.x is that it is a Shaman kit (works out real nice, actually). However, Warlocks are technically an arcane class, as you know. It would make sense for them to receive the Spell Sphere as their stronghold.

How does this work? Any insight into which files govern assigning of strongholds?

Comments

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Artemius_I said:

    They get none. It's in the description.

    Well, not sure how I missed that.

    In that case...I wonder how hard it is to give Shamans a stronghold...
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    rapsam2003 said:

    In that case...I wonder how hard it is to give Shamans a stronghold...

    BGTweaks has a component to allow strongholds regardless of class, that should probably work with Shaman (it used to work with mod-added classes).

    As for an actual Shaman stronghold... that would require a more extensive mod, but I'm virtually certain that as we speak someone somewhere is already working on such a mod.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Lord_Tansheron said:

    BGTweaks has a component to allow strongholds regardless of class, that should probably work with Shaman (it used to work with mod-added classes).

    Does this component allow you to select multiple strongholds, out of curiosity?
    Lord_Tansheron said:

    As for an actual Shaman stronghold... that would require a more extensive mod, but I'm virtually certain that as we speak someone somewhere is already working on such a mod.

    Any ideas as to who?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    rapsam2003 said:

    Lord_Tansheron said:

    BGTweaks has a component to allow strongholds regardless of class, that should probably work with Shaman (it used to work with mod-added classes).

    Does this component allow you to select multiple strongholds, out of curiosity?
    Yes, it allows you to get as many strongholds as you want with no class restrictions (alternately, it can be set to just allow multiclass characters to get their specific strongholds, but that doesn't help a Shaman).

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    rapsam2003 said:

    Does this component allow you to select multiple strongholds, out of curiosity?

    It has that option, yes. But it's separate from the option to get any class stronghold; so you can have 1 (any), or multiples (your class only), or multiples (any) - however you prefer! :)
    rapsam2003 said:

    Any ideas as to who?

    None. But it's such an obvious point, right? I'm sure that once it's done, it'll be posted in the mod subforum.
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    What kind of stronghold would they get? Not a grove, or a castle, but what exactly?
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    mf2112 said:

    What kind of stronghold would they get? Not a grove, or a castle, but what exactly?

    Lodge?
  • Tad_Has_A_Cold_OliveTad_Has_A_Cold_Olive Member Posts: 183
    I think that the Ranger stronghold would be thematically appropriate, insomuch as you are acting as the spiritual advisor for a small village.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Artemius_I said:

    If I were to make a shaman stronghold (odds are I wouldn't, too much effort), I'd have it be in the spirit world instead of the Prime.

    I thought about that, but what would it be like? I guess maybe a pocket plane-type thing but where you can't bring your party along or rest?
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Lord_Tansheron said:

    rapsam2003 said:

    Does this component allow you to select multiple strongholds, out of curiosity?

    It has that option, yes. But it's separate from the option to get any class stronghold; so you can have 1 (any), or multiples (your class only), or multiples (any) - however you prefer! :)
    Good! This fits in with my idea of how I would RP the warlock class in BG2.
    joluv said:

    mf2112 said:

    What kind of stronghold would they get? Not a grove, or a castle, but what exactly?

    Lodge?
    Tad_Has_A_Cold_Olive said:

    I think that the Ranger stronghold would be thematically appropriate, insomuch as you are acting as the spiritual advisor for a small village.

    This seems the easiest implementation. It would probably be possible to add the Shaman class to the Ranger Lodge.
    joluv said:

    Artemius_I said:

    If I were to make a shaman stronghold (odds are I wouldn't, too much effort), I'd have it be in the spirit world instead of the Prime.

    I thought about that, but what would it be like? I guess maybe a pocket plane-type thing but where you can't bring your party along or rest?
    Interesting idea, but...it seems...complex.

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    rapsam2003 said:

    Interesting idea, but...it seems...complex.

    Complex to implement? It'd just be making a single interior area and a special ability for teleporting there. One of the generic cave areas would be fine. Have some spirit assign a couple of fetch-type quests and then have one fight inside the stronghold. Give the Shaman staff from SoD as a reward. I'm sure it'd be harder than using an existing stronghold, but as an ignorant non-modder, it sounds doable to me.
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    I can see where the Ranger lodge could work for ease of modding, but it doesn't seem that a shaman wouldn't spend much time in a house to me. Maybe the cave in that same area could be used?
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    joluv said:

    rapsam2003 said:

    Interesting idea, but...it seems...complex.

    Complex to implement? It'd just be making a single interior area and a special ability for teleporting there. One of the generic cave areas would be fine. Have some spirit assign a couple of fetch-type quests and then have one fight inside the stronghold. Give the Shaman staff from SoD as a reward. I'm sure it'd be harder than using an existing stronghold, but as an ignorant non-modder, it sounds doable to me.
    You would also have to implement it such that your companions couldn't enter the area with you. The pocket plane runs its own scripts, iirc.
    mf2112 said:

    I can see where the Ranger lodge could work for ease of modding, but it doesn't seem that a shaman wouldn't spend much time in a house to me. Maybe the cave in that same area could be used?

    A cave wouldn't be too hard.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Kamigoroshi said:

    Thematically, I'd say the Fairy Grove within Windspear Hills fits the best for good/neutral shamans. Or perhaps the Troll Hut below the Druid Grove for evil shamans.

    Hey, there's an idea. That's perfect, actually.

    I'll have to examine whether a stronghold can be assigned based on alignment, but this is really good idea. Thanks!
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
    Isn't the fairy grove rather exposed? I don't really recall it having anything that would even approximate a stronghold.

    On the other hand, the troll hut could be used by shamans of any alignment. There's no reason why it couldn't be re-aligned to suit a good or neutral PC.
  • Diomedes33Diomedes33 Member Posts: 144
    Their stronghold is in WoW
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Objulen said:

    Isn't the fairy grove rather exposed? I don't really recall it having anything that would even approximate a stronghold.

    On the other hand, the troll hut could be used by shamans of any alignment. There's no reason why it couldn't be re-aligned to suit a good or neutral PC.

    If I (or another modder) decided to use the Fairy Grove, the logical thing to do would to create a "cave entrance" of kinds. So, the stronghold would be accessed via the Fairy Grove. But the stronghold itself would be a new area.
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
    Gotcha. If you can do it, more power to you. That area isn't used for much besides one quest, so it'd be a good addition IMHO.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited April 2016
    Objulen said:

    Gotcha. If you can do it, more power to you. That area isn't used for much besides one quest, so it'd be a good addition IMHO.

    Well, the caveat to being granted access to the Shaman stronghold would be 1) be a Shaman (obviously) AND 2) that one give the acorns from Irenicus dungeon to the Fairy Queen. Imho, there needs to be a reason you're granted the Stronghold. I'd have to think through it, but it's likely that I won't work on this for a few months. I have another mod that I want to finish first. (See here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/52430/planetouched-races-mod )
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
    edited April 2016
    rapsam2003 said:


    Well, the caveat to being granted access to the Shaman stronghold would be 1) be a Shaman (obviously) AND 2) that one give the acorns from Irenicus dungeon to the Fairy Queen. Imho, there needs to be a reason you're granted the Stronghold. I'd have to think through it, but it's likely that I won't work on this for a few months. I have another mod that I want to finish first. (See here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/52430/planetouched-races-mod )

    Bargaining with fairies (which could be seen as a type of spirit) is valid. They will probably have quests for you to complete, that sort of thing.

    EDIT: In fact, there could be something where the acorns don't take, so even if the PC brought they back (and still gets the reward for doing so), they still have quest to complete, while Shamans who didn't will still a quest to get their stronghold even if they forgot to get the acorns from the prologue.
  • Sids1188Sids1188 Member Posts: 165
    edited April 2016
    Objulen said:

    rapsam2003 said:


    Well, the caveat to being granted access to the Shaman stronghold would be 1) be a Shaman (obviously) AND 2) that one give the acorns from Irenicus dungeon to the Fairy Queen. Imho, there needs to be a reason you're granted the Stronghold. I'd have to think through it, but it's likely that I won't work on this for a few months. I have another mod that I want to finish first. (See here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/52430/planetouched-races-mod )

    Bargaining with fairies (which could be seen as a type of spirit) is valid. They will probably have quests for you to complete, that sort of thing.

    EDIT: In fact, there could be something where the acorns don't take, so even if the PC brought they back (and still gets the reward for doing so), they still have quest to complete, while Shamans who didn't will still a quest to get their stronghold even if they forgot to get the acorns from the prologue.
    To be honest, I think there would need to be another quest before getting the stronghold, perhaps independent of the acorns. Just comparing it to other strongholds:
    You get the thieves guild after doing a bunch of quest and eventually wiping out everyone in the guild hall
    You get the mages sphere after fighting through it's multiple layers, fighting powerful mages, golems and demons.
    You get the fighters castle after thwarting a horde of trolls, yuan-ti and umberhulks through several layers of dungeons.
    You get the bard theater after assassinating a powerful mage in the sewers and then escaping a planar prison.
    You get the paladin hold after fighting through a large castle filled with orcs, orogs, vampires, trolls, golems etc.
    You get the ranger cabin after thwarting a shadelord and a temple filled with undead and shadowfiends.
    You get the cleric hold after destroying a cult of beholders. Nuff said.

    Compared to those bringing a bunch of acorns - that are given to you in an unavoidable area at the start - to an undefended place seems kinda trivial.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Sids1188 said:

    Compared to those bringing a bunch of acorns - that are given to you in an unavoidable area at the start - to an undefended place seems kinda trivial.

    I stated that badly. Unless you give the acorns to the Fairy Queen, she won't offer you the quest. So, ya know, don't be a dick. Show her you respect her and her people; then you get a decently long quest relating to things dealing with spirits and whatnot.

    Still fleshing out the details.
  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 451
    A simple fix would be to rework the druid stronghold for them. The mere existence of the spirit of the grove (which also happens to be the druid stronghold questgiver - seriously people it's all there) should spur any self-respecting shaman into action, whether to appease the spirit and earn its favor or manipulate it into granting you more power.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    Nuin said:

    A simple fix would be to rework the druid stronghold for them. The mere existence of the spirit of the grove (which also happens to be the druid stronghold questgiver - seriously people it's all there) should spur any self-respecting shaman into action, whether to appease the spirit and earn its favor or manipulate it into granting you more power.

    Dude, I totally forgot about that. That really does give a strong tie-in. I would like to add a quest for shamans though, whether the spirit of the grove is the tie-in or not, where the shaman (and party) go into the spirit realm for a bit. So, that'd probably be the intro quest. Then, the other quests would probably be fine.

    As I said, though, it'll be a while before I get to this. My Planetouched Races mod needs to be finished first.
  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 451
    edited April 2016
    I think you mostly only need to change the dialogue to make the druid stronghold more shaman-friendly, so extra content (shaman-specific intro quest sounds great) would definitely be a good thing.
  • iavasechuiiavasechui Member Posts: 274
    edited April 2016
    Sids1188 said:

    Objulen said:

    rapsam2003 said:


    Well, the caveat to being granted access to the Shaman stronghold would be 1) be a Shaman (obviously) AND 2) that one give the acorns from Irenicus dungeon to the Fairy Queen. Imho, there needs to be a reason you're granted the Stronghold. I'd have to think through it, but it's likely that I won't work on this for a few months. I have another mod that I want to finish first. (See here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/52430/planetouched-races-mod )

    Bargaining with fairies (which could be seen as a type of spirit) is valid. They will probably have quests for you to complete, that sort of thing.

    EDIT: In fact, there could be something where the acorns don't take, so even if the PC brought they back (and still gets the reward for doing so), they still have quest to complete, while Shamans who didn't will still a quest to get their stronghold even if they forgot to get the acorns from the prologue.
    To be honest, I think there would need to be another quest before getting the stronghold, perhaps independent of the acorns. Just comparing it to other strongholds:
    You get the thieves guild after doing a bunch of quest and eventually wiping out everyone in the guild hall
    You get the mages sphere after fighting through it's multiple layers, fighting powerful mages, golems and demons.
    You get the fighters castle after thwarting a horde of trolls, yuan-ti and umberhulks through several layers of dungeons.
    You get the bard theater after assassinating a powerful mage in the sewers and then escaping a planar prison.
    You get the paladin hold after fighting through a large castle filled with orcs, orogs, vampires, trolls, golems etc.
    You get the ranger cabin after thwarting a shadelord and a temple filled with undead and shadowfiends.
    You get the cleric hold after destroying a cult of beholders. Nuff said.

    Compared to those bringing a bunch of acorns - that are given to you in an unavoidable area at the start - to an undefended place seems kinda trivial.
    Well you don't HAVE to assassinate him. If you speak to him without having the Haer'dalis rescue quest or if you just don't mention HD and be apologetic or something he sends you to kill an imp and get his mirror back. If you do that your reward IS Haer'Dalis.
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