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Mizhena, Social Justice and why we can't have nice things

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Comments

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,415
    deltago said:

    Go back to my first post on this thread, and read my critical take on Mizhena. If I would have posted that months ago, I would have been challenged as not liking the character because she was a transvestite, and why didn't I take a critical look to improve XX character instead.

    Transgender ≠ cross-dresser (replaces the term transvestite).

    https://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

    semiticgoddessdeltagoNonnahswriter
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    I just hope Beamdog will refrain from introducing further transgender, or any "are-you-saying-all-orcs-are-evil" kind of dialogue, for their own sake. People became increasingly aware of the ongoing cultural war, and yes i think cultural war is the appropriate term.
    People wouldn't have bothered 5 years ago, but now awareness has changed a lot. So even if Beamdog are seeing themselves as a part of the social justice movement, they should keep a low profile. White males are their target audience, and many of them will gladly throw their game under a bus, if it means to make a statement.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    shawne
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    semiticgoddessThacoBell
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,769
    Jesus f***ing Christ.

    You guys do realize that a lot of the arguments I brought up in the start post are actually not my opinions, right? I listed arguments that where made in general.
    I do that. I actually think about arguments other people make. I do try understand them but that doesn't mean I automatically support them. Stop giving a shit about my opinion. You should give a shit about your own opinions and think about wether or not they are valid or not.

    I don't like discussing with people who twist around my words. It's pointless. I started this thread in the assumption that people on these forums had actually calmed down and where ready to talk like adults. While some can, clearly not all of you do.

    I neither have the time, nor the energy, nor the interest in arguing.
    Life's really to short for that and at the end of the day, Mizhena is just a tiny minor character is a god damn videogame.

    Also, good job all those of you who missed the entire point of the thread by just causing and indulging in the same stupid drama over again. I wanted this to be a place of education and logic. Not another battle field. I clearly gave some of you way too much credit. I think the reason for Mizhena being such a cause for drama is actually this: Too many drama whores in this community who just like arguing for arguing's sake.

    I never said Mizhena shouldn't be included.
    I don't care that she was included.
    I care that so many people got hurt over her and aparently still do.

    My deepest apologizies to all those of you who actually did try and did contribute.
    You are the best. You are more than welcome to keep the discussion going in private with me.
    Away from trolls and drama whores.

    Now, if y'all could stop tagging me so that I will stop getting notifications, that would be very much appreciated.

    FinneousPJVallmyrfkirenicus
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    shawneGenderNihilismGirdle
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,769
    Stop. Talking. About. Me.

    Mathsorcerersemiticgoddess
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @subtledoctor Just going to point out that there's a post directly above yours that may clear things up.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    Jesus f***ing Christ.

    You guys do realize that a lot of the arguments I brought up in the start post are actually not my opinions, right? I listed arguments that where made in general.

    Mm-hmm.

    Please note that the following words are not just strictly about Mizhena, but more about my thoughts and feelings towards the general topic of social justice in the media.

    Your thoughts, your feelings. But not actually your opinions. Gotcha.

    If you don't want your words getting "twisted", maybe say what you mean instead of getting called out on your BS and then hiding behind claims that you're only repeating what other people think.

    AyiekieGenderNihilismGirdle
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    shawne said:

    deltago said:

    Go back to my first post on this thread, and read my critical take on Mizhena. If I would have posted that months ago, I would have been challenged as not liking the character because she was a transvestite, and why didn't I take a critical look to improve XX character instead.

    The criticism of the writing would have been deflected into another vile circular debate about a trans character inclusion and eventually lost and what would have been gained?

    The bar should be set higher for characters that are fleshed out more than the standard stereotypical background noise. That is what Mizhena is. You do not get deep insights of the personal lives of Rayphus or Patrescus for example. The question then is why not? What makes the cleric of Talos more important in the story than those two?

    We can't have nice things because critical stances get boiled down to for and against when it comes to controversial topics.

    Those critical stances don't exist in a vacuum, though. Whatever merits your analysis of Mizhena may have on its own terms, you can't exactly dismiss the fact that she was (and continues to be) the focal point for a lot of vile bigotry - some of which masqueraded as intellectual discussion in order to push the fake lying-ass narrative that Amber Scott was a SJW who pushed her left-wing LGBT agenda down everyone's throats for lulz.

    We're here, five months later, still talking about this trans character and whether Beamdog were right to put her in the game - a character whose actual relevance to the plot of SoD is minimal. I mean, honestly, let's all stop for a second and imagine that the transgender character had been Caelar. That would merit deeper discussion, and maybe closer scrutiny as to which arguments needed to be heard versus what noise needed to be filtered out.

    But Mizhena isn't Caelar. She's a healer/merchant. She's SoD's answer to Gellana Mirrorshade. And because we don't actually sit around and have months-long diatribes as to whether Gellana's accent is lore-appropriate because she's ultimately not important, then yes, we have to question the sincerity of attempts to make this one bit player a bigger deal than she was ever supposed to be.
    They are month long because debates because they get pushed and challenged as "this all boils down to you not wanting a trans character in the game." The critic then needs to go on the defensive, or backs out of the argument allowing the people who do push the fake lying-ass narrative to the front of the argument.

    This is the problem. If you view every critical look as a vile bigotry masked as an intellectual discussion, any valid points that are raised get tossed aside. Nothing is learnt.

    I also don't see anyone in this thread suggesting Mizhena should not be in the game. I just reread the entire thing and only @Ravenslight mentions this, but does so with a critical opinionated look. You can agree or disagree with that opinion, but it wasn't the focus of the original topic. You suggesting it is, is twisting someone words into something it is not.

    semiticgoddessThacoBell
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited August 2016
    Dee said:

    @shawne What you're doing is now bordering on harassment, and it's exactly the kind of behavior that I was talking about before, making it difficult for anyone to speak honestly or productively.

    She's clarified her position. Back off.

    She's done nothing of the sort. What she's done is insult a bunch of people while complaining about the drama she instigated, after posting arguments she claims she doesn't actually support, and is now asking that we stop talking about her.

    You've been playing the double standard hard on this thread, so please don't make me out to be the person who's blocking honest and productive speech. I've been honest, I've been direct, and I've cited facts.

    GrumBelgarathMTHtypo_tillyGenderNihilismGirdle
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
    shawneBelgarathMTHGenderNihilismGirdle
This discussion has been closed.