Yes, I received the e-mail as well. Thank you for the update. Like you guys have said, hopefully this is a positive learning experience for the future, and the wait won't be this long if you release something else
I haven't gotten an email. Actually, if I didn't come to this particular thread in the forums from time to time i'd have no idea what was going on. That being said, i'm glad we are getting close to it finally releasing. Some clearer communication is always appreciated and hopefully next time something like this is in the works we can get that communication from the get go.
To @626_EXP, @Zoulstorm and others who haven't got an email. You can subscribe to the Beamblog (http://blog.beamdog.com/) if you click the appropriate button lower on the page:
This way you won't miss any major news regarding Beamdog and its products.
This way you won't miss any major news regarding Beamdog and its products.
You can also sign up for a newsletter. If you go to the game page (e.g. Siege of Dragonspear), scroll down to the bottom, there's an input for your e-mail address:
I'm thinking this is the last time I'm ordering a CE through this company. This is ridicules. Your normal game company has the CEs made before the game is released not after.
This has certainly been a disappointing experience. I pre-ordered the CE in mid-March. After a slew of controversy came out about the game, my opinion shifted and I decided to cancel on April 11th. I was told that my order was outside of their 14-day cancellation window -- because policies -- and that I was stuck. Had I only known that the product would arrive more than half a year later (and counting ... who knows when it will actually show up), my goodness, I surely wouldn't have pulled the trigger. They also really pushed the product's limited nature, appealing to my sense of urgency, yet it is still available this long after orders began. To say I am unhappy regarding this entire process is an understatement. I should have stuck to my original guns regarding this product. I let nostalgia inform my purchasing decision. I've learned my lesson with respect to Beamdog.
On the Beamblog, Phil Daigle said we would receive an update regarding the shipping within weeks of his posting. It has been a month and we haven't heard a single word on the subject. Is this acceptable?
We're still having issues with the manufacturing. We are currently still waiting on the dice samples. I have to say the process has been just as fun from our side.
We're still having issues with the manufacturing. We are currently still waiting on the dice samples. I have to say the process has been just as fun from our side.
-Trent
Thanks for the reply Trent. I hate to be snappy as I really have enjoyed your company's products in general. I'm sure this experience hasn't been a ball. Personally, I have dealt with large orders in my line of work (mostly promotional items for my company) and know the frustration. A lot of it is out of your hands. The best advice I could give would just be to provide more regular updates. Your Twitter updates regarding the sample products were great. Just a check-in every couple of weeks would go a long way.
I pre-ordered the CE in mid-March. After a slew of controversy came out about the game, my opinion shifted and I decided to cancel on April 11th. I was told that my order was outside of their 14-day cancellation window -- because policies -- and that I was stuck. Had I only known that the product would arrive more than half a year later (and counting ... who knows when it will actually show up)..........
Is true that the cancellation window had expired, but is a minimum value, so a company can not refuse the cancellation of the order if is not expired, but nothing forbid that they eventually decide to do it after the window has expired. Is also true that " Delivery of goods Under the Consumer Protection Act, when you order a product, it must be delivered within 30 days of the promised delivery date or you can ask for a refund. However, if you choose to keep the item that was delivered late, you lose your right to get a refund for it." https://www.ontario.ca/page/your-rights-under-consumer-protection-act But it is true for Ontario and Edmonton is in Alberta, I don't know if also there is the same. And is also possible that your contract was with a USA based company owned by Beamdog. I am not a lawyer and don't want to spend too much time in researching in legal stuff, I want only to point out that to promise a delivery date and then delaying for months possibly give to the buyer rights beyond the 14 days term, and imo certainly give him some "moral rights", especially when a company is so willing to have a friendly connection with its buyers and happy to use volunteering not payed work for the localizations.
And being not able to put on some dices, a printed cloth and a couple of metal coins and packaging them in more than 1/2 year from when they begun to collect money for is not something that imo a company should be proud of.
We're still having issues with the manufacturing. We are currently still waiting on the dice samples. I have to say the process has been just as fun from our side.
-Trent
It seems to me an admission of being not competent in what you do, or at least in some of the things that you do, as company. Many magazines give for free dices, pieces of printed cloth and metal coins, even if I am sure that you want a better quality for them, seeing the price that you charge. Sorry Trent, just yesterday I wrote in an other topic that I really did appreciated a post of you about the future of the company, and that I appreciated it because was informative and objective, not easy propaganda. Please, don't make me repent of it. To know that now you will decide to cancel Paladin's order, after that the 14 days term is expired, 6 months after that, and what was ordered was still not delivered to him, would make me feel better. Would make me maintain my opinion about Beamdog, that since now has been positive, and not shift toward the opinion that you are just money grabbers, selling at high price old games with little enhancing in them. Opinion that I did read more than one time on the net and that since now I never agreed with.
Please let who is sick and tired to wait for the delivery to opt out, or I think that things like
I'm thinking this is the last time I'm ordering a CE through this company. This is ridicules. Your normal game company has the CEs made before the game is released not after.
Will be much more frequent on those boards and on the net.
I apologize for being harsh, direct, in telling those things, but to be diplomatic, to let suppose things without actually saying them is against my nature. Also I want to make clear that I have not pre ordered the product, I have nothing to gain in telling those things, as I also don't have any personal anti Beamdog agenda. I have only to loose telling those things, as I am certain that a part of the fan base, of those that I share the participation on those boards with, will be less friendly with me.
Ultimately we are doing our best to ensure we get people a high quality, very limited product. I'd encourage you to be patient as we're making a small run and once they sell out it is over. I do understand the frustration though. We share the feeling.
I am not a lawyer and don't want to spend too much time in researching in legal stuff, I want only to point out that to promise a delivery date and then delaying for months possibly give to the buyer rights beyond the 14 days term, and imo certainly give him some "moral rights", especially when a company is so willing to have a friendly connection with its buyers and happy to use volunteering not payed work for the localizations.
First and foremost, you can't skip legal stuff when it comes to relationship between a seller and a customer. In fact, legal stuff always comes first.
According to the official SoD offer on the site, the Collector's Edition features a limited-edition collector's box that will be shipped to you as soon as it is ready from the manufacturer.
This is why in this particular case a delivery date hasn't been set, and the company hasn't missed it - because the collector's box is not ready from the manufacturer.
Second. The only thing which everybody can do is to stay patient. The company shares customers' frustration. The intent is to bring the collector's box with the best possible quality, the collector's box that people would be proud of. It doesn't come easy, as the things show, but it will be done.
And one more thing. People translating games into their native languages on a volunteer status are wonderful human beings. And actually there's nothing bad that the company includes localizations that are being made on a volunteer status into official patches. But this argument has nothing to do with defining customers' rights towards refunds and returns.
First and foremost, you can't skip legal stuff when it comes to relationship between a seller and a customer. In fact, legal stuff always comes first.
True. And as I am not a lawyer and I don't know in detail the laws that regulate the matter I don't know if a condition like "will be shipped to you as soon as it is ready from the manufacturer" is valid even when the delay is so much longer than it is in similar situations. If a condition like that is valid every time, with no restrictions, I suppose that I can sell a box that produces infinite energy, collect the money, and then never deliver the product because it will be never ready from the manufacturer. I don't know if and eventually under which conditions, under the particular laws that regulate that contract, a valid condition like "will be shipped to you as soon as it is ready from the manufacturer" will become an oppressive clause, when a so long time passes from release and delivery. I just quoted an official page of the Ontario state website, being clear about the fact that I ignore if it apply in this case.
I also told "Is true that the cancellation window had expired, but is a minimum value, so a company can not refuse the cancellation of the order if is not expired, but nothing forbid that they eventually decide to do it after the window has expired" and this afaik still is true.
Beamdog is not legally compelled to, but can chose to. That is why I was talking of "moral rights", especially when a company is so willing to have a friendly connection with its buyers and happy to use volunteering not payed work for the localizations. Is a matter of give and take balance. And here we are completely outside legal stuff and obligations. This argument has nothing to do with defining customers' (legal) rights towards refunds and returns. This argument is relevant when some people here do some hard not payed work for the localizations (and is perfectly fine that it happens), work that give to Beamdog some financial returns (and also that is fine). Probably they do it because they perceive Beamdog as something special, not the normal company you buy products from. Usually people don't do volunteering work for Apple, even if they buy Iphone and Ipad... By the way thanks for the answer about credits in the Chinese localization tread. This argument is relevant when a person with more than a couple of thousand posts, so not a troll I suppose, tells "I'm thinking this is the last time I'm ordering a CE through this company. This is ridicules." Give and take balance, customer satisfaction, company image, not legal stuff, that I was mainly talking about.
When I did ask: "please let who is sick and tired to wait for the delivery to opt out", I was not saying that there are legal reasons that compel you to do it, I was talking of "give and take balance, customer satisfaction, company image" reasons, I was hoping that, when money matters, Beamdog proves itself as friendly and ready to give something for free as many of its costumers have proved to be toward it.
According to the official SoD offer on the site, the Collector's Edition features a limited-edition collector's box that will be shipped to you as soon as it is ready from the manufacturer.
This is why in this particular case a delivery date hasn't been set, and the company hasn't missed it - because the collector's box is not ready from the manufacturer.
Given that we have no real way of knowing when something would be made ready by the manufacturer, what is to stop a company from never delivering on an order? Couldn't that excuse of the item not being ready be used indefinitely? Shucking responsibility to an unnamed third-party manufacturer seems like a good way to push back orders while pocketing the cash. Not that Beamdog is doing that, but based on your rationale, it sounds like that is something they could in theory do. Or, is there a legitimate time cut-off which would dictate what is and is not an acceptable waiting period - from a legal standpoint? Let's say this goes on for another year and we continue to be told that the product is not "ready from the manufacturer." What is the recourse then? The initial promise would technically still stand, right?
@gorgonzola and @PaladinTheoretically speaking, if a customer is not happy with a situation when there's no product indefinitely, this customer takes appropriate legal action. And as a suitor here, this customer will have to prove that the seller company deceives its customers. All will depend on the evidence provided by both parties. It's pointless to predict the exact outcome.
But including a provision that a product can be shipped only after it's ready from the manufacturer doesn't break any laws.
Here's an example of how things are treated in the USA.
This community is fairly mature and thanks to that, this situation hasn't gotten out of control but I will admit that I am a touch annoyed with how long this has taken. Growing up, game devs would take pre-orders so they knew how many collectors editions to make for the game launch. BG2 for example, you would go to EB games or whatever and the collectors edition box sets were available at the game launch. I know that the industry has changed and physical copies of games have dwindled. I am sure many manufacturers have went out of business since then and things are not as easy as before.
I know Beamdog is an indie developer and they are still making connections within the industry. Maybe Trent could make a call to WOTSC to see what they would recommend for game dice. After all, D&D Dice have been manufactured for decades and I am sure "Wizards" would have the names of some reliable dice manufacturers for use in the future.
I finished the game a while back and I'm one of those patient people who can wait.
I haven't even started the game and growing impatient. I wanted to have the whole package, game and collectors swag to experience it the way I want to. This was promised to me in June.
Comments
So we're almost done!
This way you won't miss any major news regarding Beamdog and its products.
-Trent
They must click and clatter just so... Producing the optimal acoustics when scattered on the wooden casket of a deceased pork pie thief.
...Only then... AND ONLY THEN... Will I accept them...
Mwhahahahahaha!!!!
Is also true that
" Delivery of goods
Under the Consumer Protection Act, when you order a product, it must be delivered within 30 days of the promised delivery date or you can ask for a refund. However, if you choose to keep the item that was delivered late, you lose your right to get a refund for it."
https://www.ontario.ca/page/your-rights-under-consumer-protection-act
But it is true for Ontario and Edmonton is in Alberta, I don't know if also there is the same. And is also possible that your contract was with a USA based company owned by Beamdog.
I am not a lawyer and don't want to spend too much time in researching in legal stuff, I want only to point out that to promise a delivery date and then delaying for months possibly give to the buyer rights beyond the 14 days term, and imo certainly give him some "moral rights", especially when a company is so willing to have a friendly connection with its buyers and happy to use volunteering not payed work for the localizations.
And being not able to put on some dices, a printed cloth and a couple of metal coins and packaging them in more than 1/2 year from when they begun to collect money for is not something that imo a company should be proud of. It seems to me an admission of being not competent in what you do, or at least in some of the things that you do, as company. Many magazines give for free dices, pieces of printed cloth and metal coins, even if I am sure that you want a better quality for them, seeing the price that you charge.
Sorry Trent, just yesterday I wrote in an other topic that I really did appreciated a post of you about the future of the company, and that I appreciated it because was informative and objective, not easy propaganda.
Please, don't make me repent of it.
To know that now you will decide to cancel Paladin's order, after that the 14 days term is expired, 6 months after that, and what was ordered was still not delivered to him, would make me feel better. Would make me maintain my opinion about Beamdog, that since now has been positive, and not shift toward the opinion that you are just money grabbers, selling at high price old games with little enhancing in them. Opinion that I did read more than one time on the net and that since now I never agreed with.
Please let who is sick and tired to wait for the delivery to opt out, or I think that things like and Will be much more frequent on those boards and on the net.
I apologize for being harsh, direct, in telling those things, but to be diplomatic, to let suppose things without actually saying them is against my nature.
Also I want to make clear that I have not pre ordered the product, I have nothing to gain in telling those things, as I also don't have any personal anti Beamdog agenda. I have only to loose telling those things, as I am certain that a part of the fan base, of those that I share the participation on those boards with, will be less friendly with me.
gorgonzola.
-Trent
According to the official SoD offer on the site, the Collector's Edition features a limited-edition collector's box that will be shipped to you as soon as it is ready from the manufacturer.
This is why in this particular case a delivery date hasn't been set, and the company hasn't missed it - because the collector's box is not ready from the manufacturer.
Second. The only thing which everybody can do is to stay patient. The company shares customers' frustration. The intent is to bring the collector's box with the best possible quality, the collector's box that people would be proud of. It doesn't come easy, as the things show, but it will be done.
And one more thing. People translating games into their native languages on a volunteer status are wonderful human beings. And actually there's nothing bad that the company includes localizations that are being made on a volunteer status into official patches. But this argument has nothing to do with defining customers' rights towards refunds and returns.
And as I am not a lawyer and I don't know in detail the laws that regulate the matter I don't know if a condition like "will be shipped to you as soon as it is ready from the manufacturer" is valid even when the delay is so much longer than it is in similar situations. If a condition like that is valid every time, with no restrictions, I suppose that I can sell a box that produces infinite energy, collect the money, and then never deliver the product because it will be never ready from the manufacturer.
I don't know if and eventually under which conditions, under the particular laws that regulate that contract, a valid condition like "will be shipped to you as soon as it is ready from the manufacturer" will become an oppressive clause, when a so long time passes from release and delivery.
I just quoted an official page of the Ontario state website, being clear about the fact that I ignore if it apply in this case.
I also told "Is true that the cancellation window had expired, but is a minimum value, so a company can not refuse the cancellation of the order if is not expired, but nothing forbid that they eventually decide to do it after the window has expired" and this afaik still is true.
Beamdog is not legally compelled to, but can chose to.
That is why I was talking of "moral rights", especially when a company is so willing to have a friendly connection with its buyers and happy to use volunteering not payed work for the localizations.
Is a matter of give and take balance. And here we are completely outside legal stuff and obligations.
This argument has nothing to do with defining customers' (legal) rights towards refunds and returns.
This argument is relevant when some people here do some hard not payed work for the localizations (and is perfectly fine that it happens), work that give to Beamdog some financial returns (and also that is fine). Probably they do it because they perceive Beamdog as something special, not the normal company you buy products from. Usually people don't do volunteering work for Apple, even if they buy Iphone and Ipad...
By the way thanks for the answer about credits in the Chinese localization tread.
This argument is relevant when a person with more than a couple of thousand posts, so not a troll I suppose, tells "I'm thinking this is the last time I'm ordering a CE through this company. This is ridicules."
Give and take balance, customer satisfaction, company image, not legal stuff, that I was mainly talking about.
When I did ask: "please let who is sick and tired to wait for the delivery to opt out", I was not saying that there are legal reasons that compel you to do it, I was talking of "give and take balance, customer satisfaction, company image" reasons, I was hoping that, when money matters, Beamdog proves itself as friendly and ready to give something for free as many of its costumers have proved to be toward it.
Just curious about this line of reasoning.
Given that we have no real way of knowing when something would be made ready by the manufacturer, what is to stop a company from never delivering on an order? Couldn't that excuse of the item not being ready be used indefinitely? Shucking responsibility to an unnamed third-party manufacturer seems like a good way to push back orders while pocketing the cash. Not that Beamdog is doing that, but based on your rationale, it sounds like that is something they could in theory do. Or, is there a legitimate time cut-off which would dictate what is and is not an acceptable waiting period - from a legal standpoint? Let's say this goes on for another year and we continue to be told that the product is not "ready from the manufacturer." What is the recourse then? The initial promise would technically still stand, right?
But including a provision that a product can be shipped only after it's ready from the manufacturer doesn't break any laws.
Here's an example of how things are treated in the USA.
I know Beamdog is an indie developer and they are still making connections within the industry. Maybe Trent could make a call to WOTSC to see what they would recommend for game dice. After all, D&D Dice have been manufactured for decades and I am sure "Wizards" would have the names of some reliable dice manufacturers for use in the future.
I haven't even started the game and growing impatient. I wanted to have the whole package, game and collectors swag to experience it the way I want to. This was promised to me in June.
Still waiting...