"Nobody made Trump do it. Would Trump jump off a cliff if Obama did it? If he did would it be reasonable to blame Obama? No Trump's a grown ass man who can make up his own mind." I'm pretty sure that if Obama said that not jumping off cliffs was good, Trump would immediately endorse jumping off cliffs.
"Nobody made Trump do it. Would Trump jump off a cliff if Obama did it? If he did would it be reasonable to blame Obama? No Trump's a grown ass man who can make up his own mind." I'm pretty sure that if Obama said that not jumping off cliffs was good, Trump would immediately endorse jumping off cliffs.
I don't think Trump has a single belief in his body that doesn't involve making himself more money and increasing his power and stature as a "winner". It's fairly easy to lie about everything when your only goal and motive is amassing wealth and power. He also doesn't care because he's never actually suffered the repercussions anything bad he has ever done. It's all been consequence free and, in many (if not most cases), he comes out well ahead because of heinous behavior. Now add 70 years to that formula and realize how dangerous a person that is. When the policies of the Trump Presidency as reviewed years from now, the pattern will be obvious. It will reveal that everything was done in a way that maximized the profit of his businesses. Which is why it is insane someone with conflicts of interest all over the damn world is running the country.
We have a pretty good idea what Hillary would do, Because of her rhetoric during the campaign (which you are free to believe she would go back on) and because She was involved in both Lybia and Syria during the latter-end of the Obama administration.
So arguing 'we dont know what Hillary would do' doesn't really make sense, she is someone who has been actively involved in geo-politics for more then most people here have been alive.
I will also be honest, and I've lost interest in this thread as many posts don't seem to be for encouraging discussion but to slam Trump and just like most of America, I'm bored of that kind of partisan stuff. The continual recycling of old issue's isn't healthy for discussion.
On-to recent events.
China's actions have been the most interesting throughout this whole thing, They have isolated both Russia and North Korea.
China decided not to join Russia/Syria/Iran and abstained the vote in the U.N. against Syria and the chemical attack.
China has economically isolated North Korean, no more oil, no more coal, no more flights.
America is now playing nice with China.
We could be seeing a complete geopolitical shift happening with China, Could we be seeing China now drop their decades old ego-grudge against Japan? as they seem to be dropping their support of North Korea (historically as a buffer against South Korea).
If this trend continues, It will be one of the biggest things to happen (and probably not highlighted much) and I myself am surprised at the whole turn of events for Trump Administration ever since the Syrian Chemical attack, he has been garnering an absurd amount of political gain across all sectors.
Not highlighted much, is that Trump invited President Xi to his Mar-a-Largo, something he did not do for the Arab leaders, This i believe is seen in China culturally as extremely significant.
Perhaps Trumps business-dealings with China in his life has given him an edge in how to talk to them.
No crazier than any other time in our history though. We've had politicians kill one another in duels before that was outlawed. The civil rights and feminist movements of past decades caused their share of violence (mostly against those folks but not always). Not to mention the thuggery and violence that went on before and after the Civil War.
I do think the two party system that we're stuck with nowadays leaves a lot of people feeling they don't have a voice. It would be too expensive and chaotic for the corporations to allow more parties (their money pretty much makes them the puppeteers) so they never throw any support behind a third party. It would take a LOT of people thumbing their noses at both the Dems and the GOP before real change could happen. Unfortunately, both parties are really good at demonizing the other in order to deflect people from the fact that there isn't a whole Hell of a lot of difference between them anymore...
Yes, absolutely, I deny it until proven otherwise as should anyone fair minded when it comes to very extreme claims like racism, sexism, what have you.
Are claims of racism/ sexism extreme? To be perfectly honest I think racism / sexism etc. are almost mundane and institutionalised parts of most human societies. We often react adversely to strange experiences as humans, and attempt to classify & simplify them in order to assimilate them into our existing beliefs, without necessarily trying to see other perspectives. I would say without hesitation that I, despite extensive experiences with cultures foreign to my own and having picked up a language or two, still struggle not to make judgements about people based on their race, gender, religion etc. President Trump on the other hand has consistently attempted to exploit these tendencies for political ends.
Just to play Devils advocate, But Trump did bring up the same issue with Ted Cruz and with valid Constitutional concerns over his eligibility. So you could at least say Trump doesn't discriminate based on race or skin when he brings this issue up, Does he do it for Political gain? Of course...And so does every other Politician when they open their mouth about something or accuse someone of something.
That's insane to me. The idea of wanting to hit someone let alone outright disliking someone for political disagreement. I've had friends stop talking to me over it, it's enough to make one just shut up altogether. Crazy times we're living in
I don't recall I've ever hit anyone over anything in my life, except for one particular bully in elementary school, which if my memory serves me correct was a single sock in the nose. The idea of actually getting in a fight with anyone is so far off my radar I don't even really comprehend how it happens. I've never understood angry drunks either, always drove me nuts to be around those people.
As for talking....that's a different story. I will stop talking to people over things, and I at the very least will get very passive aggressive, which most people view as a serious character flaw. I always counter that it sure as hell beats just being AGGRESSIVE and actually yelling or assaulting someone.
I find these comments interesting, from a learning persective(for me) from both members. Doggonit, but you guys and everyone else on this thread keep me thinking, in a good way. This thinking is not directed at either but makes me think on the nature of conflict. In conflict training we have to learn the motivations for violence, the why, when ,and where it might occur (and how to lessen the chances that it might occur. We have to think like a terrorist, think like an angry spouse, a protestor, a cop, etc. etc. To put our selves deeply into the mindset of another person can be disturbing at times but also enlightening as well.
The reason I look at things going on politically and get worried sometimes is that is SO easy to see how something escalate into something much worse. Violence to me seems just another part of human nature, actually easier to understand than some other issues.
The one thing that troubles me the most, particularly in the world of politics and foreign relations is when people stop talking. When we stop talking we shut off off our most peaceful solution to issues both large and small. We stop trying to understand the other. It is during these times of non communication that ideas can sometimes brew in one's mind, often making ore view of the other worse than before. Or, just as harmful to us, lead to the same misunderstanding when that next similar situation arises. I will say that even in conflict negotiation however there is a time to walk away, depending on the value of what is at stake, and unfortunately in certain non-negotiable situations, at it's worst ,and last resort, a time for violence.
Ego has gotten in the way of politics at times, and it is disturbing, on the presidential level, both past and present. When I finally began to understand why many politicians act the way they do, it was so much easier to see how they might react. People still surprise me at times, and that is both good and bad, so while I am an optimist, I am a cynic at the same time. It is a strange feeling but one I think can develop when one needs to be that someone that has to sit on fence and help with the conflict of others.
@Mantis37 Agreed. It is often hard to fit a another culture's belief's & ideals into our own neat little boxes, but it sure is useful.
@vanatos MAybe Trump can do something with China AND Russia that is different from the past. Seems like might be what started off as maybe yes to Russia might be maybe no.
I noticed the Mar-a-Lago invites as well. I don't remember a joint press conference like with the others though, but maybe I just missed it. As tough a situation as it is in the S.China Sea, that is still up in the air very much so IMO. A risky business for sure. Seems like N Korea is not one to calm down to shows of force if the mood takes them. China and Japan, that would be nice but that is ALOTTA bad blood between them to overcome still, it seems. I hope so. So China has grown so much WITH business maybe Trump, like you mentioned, can make something happen. I have thought from the beginning that Trump can totally botch things or really do something different and helpful. Time will tell in the end.
We could be seeing a complete geopolitical shift happening with China, Could we be seeing China now drop their decades old ego-grudge against Japan? as they seem to be dropping their support of North Korea (historically as a buffer against South Korea).
No.
It'd be nice, but I do not see them dropping a MILLENIA-old grudge against Japan.
That said, sure, I could see them dropping support for North Korea.
I myself am surprised at the whole turn of events for Trump Administration ever since the Syrian Chemical attack, he has been garnering an absurd amount of political gain across all sectors.
As someone said, nothing raises flagging polls like bombing someone and calling for patriotism.
Youtube for some reason has dredged up 3 year old Bill Maher clips for me. In one, which was about bombing Syria 3 years ago, he listed countries we've bombed since WW2. It was 16 countries (17 since it now includes Syria).
More specifically: Korea Vietnam Laos Cambodia Lebanon Grenada Panama Iraq Serbia Somalia Bosnia Sudan Afghanistan Pakistan Libya Yemen Syria (I added this)
At some point, we're going to be like the picture of "What countries has Britain invaded?", except it'll be "What countries has America bombed?".
@vanatos MAybe Trump can do something with China AND Russia that is different from the past. Seems like might be what started off as maybe yes to Russia might be maybe no.
I noticed the Mar-a-Lago invites as well. I don't remember a joint press conference like with the others though, but maybe I just missed it. As tough a situation as it is in the S.China Sea, that is still up in the air very much so IMO. A risky business for sure. Seems like N Korea is not one to calm down to shows of force if the mood takes them. China and Japan, that would be nice but that is ALOTTA bad blood between them to overcome still, it seems. I hope so. So China has grown so much WITH business maybe Trump, like you mentioned, can make something happen. I have thought from the beginning that Trump can totally botch things or really do something different and helpful. Time will tell in the end.
Apart from the geopolitical game of America defending Japan/South Korea and China responding against that.
China and America actually are pretty strong trading partners between each other.
In terms of Japan/China, thats an old grudge that will disappear with time even if it is not solved now. The younger Asian generations are enamored with Japanese and South Korean culture.
Le Pen was leading with a respectable margin! Now with half a million left-leaning expats having the ability to cast a double vote this could potentially break that margin in two! Some "experts" say this won't effect the election at all (reminds me of "experts" saying Brexit and Trump will lose). While it is still illegal to vote twice, authorities say they won't do anything about it until the election (how bloody convenient aye). Their also will not be a re-election despite the "accident" potentially ruining the election.
I don't know if this was a genuine "error" or if their is some greater conspiracy behind this but regardless this is unfair as hell, democracy my ass.....
The Chinese government has stoked resentment against Japan as one way to deflect social tensions deriving from economic growth - not that Japan is entirely innocent- and will find it hard to alter its position quickly. It's not impossible, but it's not devoid of risk either as the Communist party has created an ideology legitimising its rule based on the anti-Japanese struggle (minus the role of the Kuomintang of course).
Japanese TV had almost excessive coverage of NK's latest test. Either the TV networks have realised that Kim-Jong-Un has great starpower, or the Abe government would like to use the issue to leverage enough support to force constitutional revision through.
Often I feel like this kind of crisis based news is not only country vs country but also governments putting on a show for their people, NK & America included...
"Apart from the geopolitical game of America defending Japan/South Korea and China responding against that.
China and America actually are pretty strong trading partners between each other.
In terms of Japan/China, thats an old grudge that will disappear with time even if it is not solved now. The younger Asian generations are enamored with Japanese and South Korean culture."
That same veneration of other cultures can also be a source of fear and suspicion for the older generations. The younger Japanese were enamored with American culture in the years leading up to WW2 and that didn't stop Pearl Harbour. Humans in general seem to become more conservative and susceptible to 'the good ol' days' nostalgia. I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell my parents, 'what about polio?, or smallpox?, Vietnam War?, Korea?, the Cold War?, etc...'
It's kind of strange that most people don't seem to want to believe that they're living in the best time in history to be alive. I know it's small comfort to folks in 3rd world countries but there's even more hope now for them than in any other time in history.
Le Pen was leading with a respectable margin! Now with half a million left-leaning expats having the ability to cast a double vote this could potentially break that margin in two! Some "experts" say this won't effect the election at all (reminds me of "experts" saying Brexit and Trump will lose). While it is still illegal to vote twice, authorities say they won't do anything about it until the election (how bloody convenient aye). Their also will not be a re-election despite the "accident" potentially ruining the election.
I don't know if this was a genuine "error" or if their is some greater conspiracy behind this but regardless this is unfair as hell, democracy my ass.....
This assumes that these people are just willingly going to break the law just because they got an extra card in the mail, at the risk of two years in prison. Chances are 99% of these people will throw the extra one away. Who the hell is going to risk going to jail to cast ONE extra vote just because they received an extra card in the mail?? 500,000 people aren't involved in a conspiracy just because someone sent them something they shouldn't have. Furthermore, there is no evidence who these people are going to vote for even if they DID vote twice, and there is absolutely no way to gauge such a thing. Who is to say LePen wouldn't benefit from such a situation herself?? But, again, my guess is almost no one will cast two votes, because the punishment far, far outweighs any gain attained by casting a single extra vote.
On top of that, I can't find ANY mention of this outside two notoriously right-wing British tabloids.
Agree. This "election is rigged" talk against the far right wing candidate sure sounds familiar.
And then afterward the election, we'll see the only ones who rigged the election were right wing supporters because some fake news website got them all worked up that the other side was doing it.
Le Pen was leading with a respectable margin! Now with half a million left-leaning expats having the ability to cast a double vote this could potentially break that margin in two! Some "experts" say this won't effect the election at all (reminds me of "experts" saying Brexit and Trump will lose). While it is still illegal to vote twice, authorities say they won't do anything about it until the election (how bloody convenient aye). Their also will not be a re-election despite the "accident" potentially ruining the election.
I don't know if this was a genuine "error" or if their is some greater conspiracy behind this but regardless this is unfair as hell, democracy my ass.....
This assumes that these people are just willingly going to break the law just because they got an extra card in the mail, at the risk of two years in prison. Chances are 99% of these people will throw the extra one away. Who the hell is going to risk going to jail to cast ONE extra vote just because they received an extra card in the mail?? 500,000 people aren't involved in a conspiracy just because someone sent them something they shouldn't have. Furthermore, there is no evidence who these people are going to vote for even if they DID vote twice, and there is absolutely no way to gauge such a thing. Who is to say LePen wouldn't benefit from such a situation herself?? But, again, my guess is almost no one will cast two votes, because the punishment far, far outweighs any gain attained by casting a single extra vote.
On top of that, I can't find ANY mention of this outside two notoriously right-wing British tabloids.
However, here is something that people can point to and bring into question the validity of an election if it doesnt swing thier way, once again undermining western values.
Yes, absolutely, I deny it until proven otherwise as should anyone fair minded when it comes to very extreme claims like racism, sexism, what have you.
Are claims of racism/ sexism extreme? To be perfectly honest I think racism / sexism etc. are almost mundane and institutionalised parts of most human societies. We often react adversely to strange experiences as humans, and attempt to classify & simplify them in order to assimilate them into our existing beliefs, without necessarily trying to see other perspectives. I would say without hesitation that I, despite extensive experiences with cultures foreign to my own and having picked up a language or two, still struggle not to make judgements about people based on their race, gender, religion etc. President Trump on the other hand has consistently attempted to exploit these tendencies for political ends.
I'm not any less skeptical of an institutional racial or gender bias in america tbh. Except perhaps in the criminal justice system, which needs reform on a number of levels. Other than that there is simply no basis for it in evidence that i've ever seen.
And yes I still think it's an extreme aspersion to cast on someone, it's a direct attack on their motives and character, and should be treated with that level of seriousness i.e you should be able to prove it. When you throw around such words willy-nilly all it serves to do is demean the seriousness of the charge (and have folks disbelieve you) when an actual racist comes along.
That's the problem with the word "racism." It can refer to low-level, unconscious biases as well as blatant and even violent discrimination.
The former is almost innocent--everyone has some mild biases that can only be detect with direct testing--but the latter is deeply dangerous. You can talk about the former as a general thing, and some people will still worry that they are personally being accused of the latter.
I just want to say congratulations to Turkey and her new Sultan - Recep Tayyip Erdoğan - for winning the referendum and officially becoming a dictatorship.
This assumes that these people are just willingly going to break the law just because they got an extra card in the mail, at the risk of two years in prison. Chances are 99% of these people will throw the extra one away.
Where did you pull those facts from? 99% according to who?
Let's be honest election fraud happens all the time (#deadpeoplevotedemocrats) but not on a high enough level to really make a difference. This was until a massive computer blunder that of course favors the left who would have guessed. No one is risking anything at worst they will get a slap on the wrist. As if a newly elected Macron will punish the people that helped him lol >.>
Furthermore, there is no evidence who these people are going to vote for even if they DID vote twice, and there is absolutely no way to gauge such a thing. Who is to say LePen wouldn't benefit from such a situation herself??
HAHAHA good one!
Next we will be saying their is no way to tell how Californians will vote
This assumes that these people are just willingly going to break the law just because they got an extra card in the mail, at the risk of two years in prison. Chances are 99% of these people will throw the extra one away.
Where did you pull those facts from? 99% according to who?
Let's be honest election fraud happens all the time (#deadpeoplevotedemocrats) but not on a high enough level to really make a difference. This was until a massive computer blunder that of course favors the left who would have guessed. No one is risking anything at worst they will get a slap on the wrist. As if a newly elected Macron will punish the people that helped him lol >.>
Furthermore, there is no evidence who these people are going to vote for even if they DID vote twice, and there is absolutely no way to gauge such a thing. Who is to say LePen wouldn't benefit from such a situation herself??
HAHAHA good one!
Next we will be saying their is no way to tell how Californians will vote
it's republicans who committed all or nearly all the voter fraud in the nov 2016 election, probably incited by fake news like the hashtag you mentioned and our lying President. "There were 3 million fake votes - every single one democrat for some reason!" hahahah funny how that works, idiot. Why would 3 million (or is it 6 million, it's whatever number he feels like lying about) all vote the same way?
Audrey Cook is a Republican election judge in Illinois. She and her husband applied for absentee ballots because he was ill. He died before completing his, so she filled it out for him and sent it in. The ballot wasn't counted.
Agree. This "election is rigged" talk against the far right wing candidate sure sounds familiar. And then afterward the election, we'll see the only ones who rigged the election were right wing supporters because some fake news website got them all worked up that the other side was doing it. Sounds real familiar, comrade.
Last time I checked both sides were complaining of rigging (Hillary cried "Russia" while Trump raged on about the Soros voting machines). Neither sides claim was substantial enough to be considered anything more than conspiracy worldwide.
The french computing blunder isn't a conspiracy though it's fact it already happened. This isn't an issue of political sides anymore it is an issue of a fair democratic voting process. @deltago is right here this will just make the transition to power (if the left win) much harder since people will question the validity of the election regardless.
Heck even if Le pen wins this will cause an unnecessary distraction and will further lower voter trust in the system. This is not what we need in the west right now, we don't need even MORE voter disenfranchisement...
Currently Le Pen's lead is wafer thin, so even if a mere 1/50 of expat voters double vote then she is screwed sideways. I usually am good at betting on elections but this blunder made it far too risky to gamble.
This assumes that these people are just willingly going to break the law just because they got an extra card in the mail, at the risk of two years in prison. Chances are 99% of these people will throw the extra one away.
Where did you pull those facts from? 99% according to who?
Let's be honest election fraud happens all the time (#deadpeoplevotedemocrats) but not on a high enough level to really make a difference. This was until a massive computer blunder that of course favors the left who would have guessed. No one is risking anything at worst they will get a slap on the wrist. As if a newly elected Macron will punish the people that helped him lol >.>
Furthermore, there is no evidence who these people are going to vote for even if they DID vote twice, and there is absolutely no way to gauge such a thing. Who is to say LePen wouldn't benefit from such a situation herself??
HAHAHA good one!
Next we will be saying their is no way to tell how Californians will vote
#1 I didn't say it as a fact, it was my opinion that they aren't going to vote twice, because it is all risk with almost no reward. The very tabloid article you linked didn't say anything about a "slap on the wrist" as punishment, but did say it carried a possible 2-year jail term. #2 voter fraud is such a non-issue in the US that, statistically, it doesn't even exist to the point where it could swing one close election for dog catcher if you took all the incidents of it across the country for the last decade.
By the way, I did a Google search AGAIN just to see if other outlets are reporting on this, and there is absolutely nothing, simply the same two British tabloids who basically say the same thing almost verbatim. All other sources seem to be conservative aggregates reporting on the British tabloids.
@Teo_live It's not only expats who can receive double cards. It can happen to anyone who recently changed address (according to Le Monde). There's no way to know who will benefit from the mistake.
Also Macron isn't the left. He's not the right either. He's a banker ideologically flexible. Alain Minc, who certainly would know about that, compares him to a whore. You want the left see Mélenchon.
In case there's any confusion, I should point out that @Teo_live is claiming there is voter fraud in France, while @jjstraka34 is claiming there is no voter fraud in the U.S. It's actually possible for both of those claims to be true.
In case there's any confusion, I should point out that @Teo_live is claiming there is voter fraud in France, while @jjstraka34 is claiming there is no voter fraud in the U.S. It's actually possible for both of those claims to be true.
He is claiming there COULD be voter fraud in France, and that we have no way of knowing what is going to take place. As @Kurona points out (and I confirmed by reading the translated Le Monde article) this is far more innocuous and could benefit either side, while the British tabloid articles leave out that entire angle and make it seem as if only left-wing expats are getting this opportunity. There is a POTENTIAL for voter fraud that one would have to risk 2 years in jail to engage in to, again, tally a SINGLE extra vote for their preferred candidate.
In case there's any confusion, I should point out that @Teo_live is claiming there is voter fraud in France, while @jjstraka34 is claiming there is no voter fraud in the U.S. It's actually possible for both of those claims to be true.
He is claiming there COULD be voter fraud in France, and that we have no way of knowing what is going to take place. As @Kurona points out (and I confirmed by reading the translated Le Monde article) this is far more innocuous and could benefit either side, while the British tabloid articles leave out that entire angle and make it seem as if only left-wing expats are getting this opportunity. There is a POTENTIAL for voter fraud that one would have to risk 2 years in jail to engage in to, again, tally a SINGLE extra vote for their preferred candidate.
it would probably be easier and far less likely to get caught to just tamper with voting machines (if they have them) or ballot counting or whatever.
Switching a couple numbers on a computer is easier and less likely to be caught then actually filling out a piece of paper. Even if you are caught changing the computer, you can just blame "computer error" or whatever and probably get away with it.
Le Pen was leading with a respectable margin! Now with half a million left-leaning expats having the ability to cast a double vote this could potentially break that margin in two!
What? Uh, I looked like 4 days ago and she was tied with Macron. And polls say Macron will win in a run off between the two.
That is not a respectable margin. Le Pen and Fillon, THAT is a respectable margin.
I have no opinion on any error, but it does sound strange to double print and ship half a million extra voting ballots. You'd think someone would notice when they were printing for an extra day or however long it takes to run off 500k+ ballots.
I can understand the perspective of "we're not going to prosecute anything until the election is done". I can already see that no matter WHO wins, there's going to be a lawsuit.
Let's say Le Pen does win? Why wouldn't (insert loser) say "Hey, the election was rigged?" It's only fair to sue if she doesn't win?
Their also will not be a re-election despite the "accident" potentially ruining the election.
Meh, we'll see.
Can't be much more of a dumpster fire than U.S. elections were.
this is what russia wanted by the way, to de-legitimize western democracies.
Then you can get all comfy knowing you too can have a dictator as "strong" as vladimir putin because hey democracy doesn't work see!
If LePen wins in France it's indisputable that Putin will be the most powerful figure on the world stage and well on his way to accomplishing his goal of dismantling the post-WW2 alliances of the West. I've been saying for months she would be the final domino to fall is his initial plans. If Brexit and Trump are any indication, she will win, and then after a couple of days most of the country will, like in those instances say "what the f**k did we just do??"
Russia doesn't have anything to do with the France flop and their is no current evidence of Russian involvement at least to me knowledge (it would be in Putin's best interest if Le Pen wins anyway).
@Quickblade Yes polling changes daily and they are a crapstorm (and those Trump and Brexit polls lol). I noticed in the graph showing polling trends that Le Pen had a respectable lead that recently turned into a wafer thin draw. Throw this in with the computer "error" and it is almost impossible to call the election IMO. Also yes I agree the computer glitch may be almost as destructive of an issue if Le Pen indeed wins. This is a disaster regardless of political inclination.
@Teo_live It's not only expats who can receive double cards. It can happen to anyone who recently changed address (according to Le Monde). There's no way to know who will benefit from the mistake. Also Macron isn't the left. He's not the right either. He's a banker ideologically flexible. Alain Minc, who certainly would know about that, compares him to a whore. You want the left see Mélenchon.
I disagree with your first line (well at least from a gambling point of view). I was willing to call this election clean until now.
As for the second sentence I kind of agree but I feel like Macron likes to... masquerade as a centrist lol. Mélenchon is a bad comparison I don't believe you have to be ultra-left-leaning to be a progressive.
By the way, I did a Google search AGAIN just to see if other outlets are reporting on this, and there is absolutely nothing, simply the same two British tabloids who basically say the same thing almost verbatim.
This isn't uncommon for French Media (or any mainstream EU/US media for that matter). When Le Pen's office got smashed into by political vandals almost nothing in the french media either.
Mainstream media can't keep people in the dark forever though. This stuff is buzzing in france and worldwide on social media (the place I learned it from initially). All the juicy stories that the mainstream don't want to show the public. This is just another reason why people have distrust in the garbage known as mainstream media.
Comments
So arguing 'we dont know what Hillary would do' doesn't really make sense, she is someone who has been actively involved in geo-politics for more then most people here have been alive.
I will also be honest, and I've lost interest in this thread as many posts don't seem to be for encouraging discussion but to slam Trump and just like most of America, I'm bored of that kind of partisan stuff.
The continual recycling of old issue's isn't healthy for discussion.
On-to recent events.
China's actions have been the most interesting throughout this whole thing, They have isolated both Russia and North Korea.
China decided not to join Russia/Syria/Iran and abstained the vote in the U.N. against Syria and the chemical attack.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2087520/chinas-un-vote-abstention-part-shift-towards-balanced
China has economically isolated North Korean, no more oil, no more coal, no more flights.
America is now playing nice with China.
We could be seeing a complete geopolitical shift happening with China, Could we be seeing China now drop their decades old ego-grudge against Japan? as they seem to be dropping their support of North Korea (historically as a buffer against South Korea).
If this trend continues, It will be one of the biggest things to happen (and probably not highlighted much) and I myself am surprised at the whole turn of events for Trump Administration ever since the Syrian Chemical attack, he has been garnering an absurd amount of political gain across all sectors.
Not highlighted much, is that Trump invited President Xi to his Mar-a-Largo, something he did not do for the Arab leaders, This i believe is seen in China culturally as extremely significant.
Perhaps Trumps business-dealings with China in his life has given him an edge in how to talk to them.
I do think the two party system that we're stuck with nowadays leaves a lot of people feeling they don't have a voice. It would be too expensive and chaotic for the corporations to allow more parties (their money pretty much makes them the puppeteers) so they never throw any support behind a third party. It would take a LOT of people thumbing their noses at both the Dems and the GOP before real change could happen. Unfortunately, both parties are really good at demonizing the other in order to deflect people from the fact that there isn't a whole Hell of a lot of difference between them anymore...
So you could at least say Trump doesn't discriminate based on race or skin when he brings this issue up, Does he do it for Political gain? Of course...And so does every other Politician when they open their mouth about something or accuse someone of something.
I find these comments interesting, from a learning persective(for me) from both members. Doggonit, but you guys and everyone else on this thread keep me thinking, in a good way.
The reason I look at things going on politically and get worried sometimes is that is SO easy to see how something escalate into something much worse. Violence to me seems just another part of human nature, actually easier to understand than some other issues.
The one thing that troubles me the most, particularly in the world of politics and foreign relations is when people stop talking. When we stop talking we shut off off our most peaceful solution to issues both large and small. We stop trying to understand the other. It is during these times of non communication that ideas can sometimes brew in one's mind, often making ore view of the other worse than before. Or, just as harmful to us, lead to the same misunderstanding when that next similar situation arises.
I will say that even in conflict negotiation however there is a time to walk away, depending on the value of what is at stake, and unfortunately in certain non-negotiable situations, at it's worst ,and last resort, a time for violence.
Ego has gotten in the way of politics at times, and it is disturbing, on the presidential level, both past and present.
When I finally began to understand why many politicians act the way they do, it was so much easier to see how they might react.
People still surprise me at times, and that is both good and bad, so while I am an optimist, I am a cynic at the same time. It is a strange feeling but one I think can develop when one needs to be that someone that has to sit on fence and help with the conflict of others.
@Mantis37 Agreed. It is often hard to fit a another culture's belief's & ideals into our own neat little boxes, but it sure is useful.
@vanatos MAybe Trump can do something with China AND Russia that is different from the past. Seems like might be what started off as maybe yes to Russia might be maybe no.
I noticed the Mar-a-Lago invites as well. I don't remember a joint press conference like with the others though, but maybe I just missed it.
As tough a situation as it is in the S.China Sea, that is still up in the air very much so IMO. A risky business for sure. Seems like N Korea is not one to calm down to shows of force if the mood takes them.
China and Japan, that would be nice but that is ALOTTA bad blood between them to overcome still, it seems. I hope so. So China has grown so much WITH business maybe Trump, like you mentioned, can make something happen.
I have thought from the beginning that Trump can totally botch things or really do something different and helpful. Time will tell in the end.
It'd be nice, but I do not see them dropping a MILLENIA-old grudge against Japan.
That said, sure, I could see them dropping support for North Korea. As someone said, nothing raises flagging polls like bombing someone and calling for patriotism.
Youtube for some reason has dredged up 3 year old Bill Maher clips for me. In one, which was about bombing Syria 3 years ago, he listed countries we've bombed since WW2. It was 16 countries (17 since it now includes Syria).
More specifically:
Korea
Vietnam
Laos
Cambodia
Lebanon
Grenada
Panama
Iraq
Serbia
Somalia
Bosnia
Sudan
Afghanistan
Pakistan
Libya
Yemen
Syria (I added this)
At some point, we're going to be like the picture of "What countries has Britain invaded?", except it'll be "What countries has America bombed?".
China and America actually are pretty strong trading partners between each other.
In terms of Japan/China, thats an old grudge that will disappear with time even if it is not solved now. The younger Asian generations are enamored with Japanese and South Korean culture.
My odds (and hopes) were riding on Le Pen winning the french election... and then this happened!!
express.co.uk/news/world/792112/Marine-Le-Pen-French-election-votes-computer-Emmanuel-Macron
Additional Sources/Opinions:
thegoldwater.com/news/2286-Computer-Blunder-Might-Wipe-Out-Marine-Le-Pen-In-French-Election
https://davidicke.com/article/409411/le-pen-faces-disaster-election-monumental-computer-error
freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3544458/posts
zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-15/le-pen-faces-disaster-election-after-monumental-computer-error
elderstatement.com/2017/04/how-marine-le-pen-is-facing-wipe-out-in.html
Le Pen was leading with a respectable margin! Now with half a million left-leaning expats having the ability to cast a double vote this could potentially break that margin in two! Some "experts" say this won't effect the election at all (reminds me of "experts" saying Brexit and Trump will lose). While it is still illegal to vote twice, authorities say they won't do anything about it until the election (how bloody convenient aye). Their also will not be a re-election despite the "accident" potentially ruining the election.
I don't know if this was a genuine "error" or if their is some greater conspiracy behind this but regardless this is unfair as hell, democracy my ass.....
Japanese TV had almost excessive coverage of NK's latest test. Either the TV networks have realised that Kim-Jong-Un has great starpower, or the Abe government would like to use the issue to leverage enough support to force constitutional revision through.
Often I feel like this kind of crisis based news is not only country vs country but also governments putting on a show for their people, NK & America included...
"Apart from the geopolitical game of America defending Japan/South Korea and China responding against that.
China and America actually are pretty strong trading partners between each other.
In terms of Japan/China, thats an old grudge that will disappear with time even if it is not solved now. The younger Asian generations are enamored with Japanese and South Korean culture."
That same veneration of other cultures can also be a source of fear and suspicion for the older generations. The younger Japanese were enamored with American culture in the years leading up to WW2 and that didn't stop Pearl Harbour. Humans in general seem to become more conservative and susceptible to 'the good ol' days' nostalgia. I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell my parents, 'what about polio?, or smallpox?, Vietnam War?, Korea?, the Cold War?, etc...'
It's kind of strange that most people don't seem to want to believe that they're living in the best time in history to be alive. I know it's small comfort to folks in 3rd world countries but there's even more hope now for them than in any other time in history.
On top of that, I can't find ANY mention of this outside two notoriously right-wing British tabloids.
And then afterward the election, we'll see the only ones who rigged the election were right wing supporters because some fake news website got them all worked up that the other side was doing it.
Sounds real familiar, comrade.
And yes I still think it's an extreme aspersion to cast on someone, it's a direct attack on their motives and character, and should be treated with that level of seriousness i.e you should be able to prove it. When you throw around such words willy-nilly all it serves to do is demean the seriousness of the charge (and have folks disbelieve you) when an actual racist comes along.
The former is almost innocent--everyone has some mild biases that can only be detect with direct testing--but the latter is deeply dangerous. You can talk about the former as a general thing, and some people will still worry that they are personally being accused of the latter.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-referendum-idUSKBN17H0CU
Let's be honest election fraud happens all the time (#deadpeoplevotedemocrats) but not on a high enough level to really make a difference. This was until a massive computer blunder that of course favors the left who would have guessed. No one is risking anything at worst they will get a slap on the wrist. As if a newly elected Macron will punish the people that helped him lol >.> HAHAHA good one!
Next we will be saying their is no way to tell how Californians will vote
A Texas man arrested on suspicion of voting fraud said he worked for Trump and was testing the system
http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-election-day-2016-texas-voter-fraud-arrest-1478655045-htmlstory.html
Audrey Cook is a Republican election judge in Illinois. She and her husband applied for absentee ballots because he was ill. He died before completing his, so she filled it out for him and sent it in. The ballot wasn't counted.
Two women busted for election fraud in Miami-Dade both Republicans.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/0-000002-percent-of-all-the-ballots-cast-in-the-2016-election-were-fraudulent/
Finally the Top US election official: Voting fraud ‘not an epidemic’ from a couple days ago.
https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-04-13/top-us-election-official-voting-fraud-not-epidemic
So your deadpeople vote democrats is wrong, fake news. You are spreading a lie.
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/10/trumps-bogus-voter-fraud-claims/
All This Talk of Voter Fraud? Across U.S., Officials Found Next to None
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/18/us/voter-fraud.html
The french computing blunder isn't a conspiracy though it's fact it already happened. This isn't an issue of political sides anymore it is an issue of a fair democratic voting process. @deltago is right here this will just make the transition to power (if the left win) much harder since people will question the validity of the election regardless.
Heck even if Le pen wins this will cause an unnecessary distraction and will further lower voter trust in the system. This is not what we need in the west right now, we don't need even MORE voter disenfranchisement...
Currently Le Pen's lead is wafer thin, so even if a mere 1/50 of expat voters double vote then she is screwed sideways. I usually am good at betting on elections but this blunder made it far too risky to gamble.
By the way, I did a Google search AGAIN just to see if other outlets are reporting on this, and there is absolutely nothing, simply the same two British tabloids who basically say the same thing almost verbatim. All other sources seem to be conservative aggregates reporting on the British tabloids.
It's not only expats who can receive double cards. It can happen to anyone who recently changed address (according to Le Monde). There's no way to know who will benefit from the mistake.
Also Macron isn't the left. He's not the right either. He's a banker ideologically flexible. Alain Minc, who certainly would know about that, compares him to a whore. You want the left see Mélenchon.
Switching a couple numbers on a computer is easier and less likely to be caught then actually filling out a piece of paper. Even if you are caught changing the computer, you can just blame "computer error" or whatever and probably get away with it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_French_presidential_election,_2017
That is not a respectable margin. Le Pen and Fillon, THAT is a respectable margin.
I have no opinion on any error, but it does sound strange to double print and ship half a million extra voting ballots. You'd think someone would notice when they were printing for an extra day or however long it takes to run off 500k+ ballots.
I can understand the perspective of "we're not going to prosecute anything until the election is done". I can already see that no matter WHO wins, there's going to be a lawsuit.
Let's say Le Pen does win? Why wouldn't (insert loser) say "Hey, the election was rigged?" It's only fair to sue if she doesn't win? Meh, we'll see.
Can't be much more of a dumpster fire than U.S. elections were.
Then you can get all comfy knowing you too can have a dictator as "strong" as vladimir putin because hey democracy doesn't work see!
@Quickblade Yes polling changes daily and they are a crapstorm (and those Trump and Brexit polls lol). I noticed in the graph showing polling trends that Le Pen had a respectable lead that recently turned into a wafer thin draw. Throw this in with the computer "error" and it is almost impossible to call the election IMO. Also yes I agree the computer glitch may be almost as destructive of an issue if Le Pen indeed wins. This is a disaster regardless of political inclination. I disagree with your first line (well at least from a gambling point of view). I was willing to call this election clean until now.
As for the second sentence I kind of agree but I feel like Macron likes to... masquerade as a centrist lol. Mélenchon is a bad comparison I don't believe you have to be ultra-left-leaning to be a progressive. This isn't uncommon for French Media (or any mainstream EU/US media for that matter). When Le Pen's office got smashed into by political vandals almost nothing in the french media either.
Mainstream media can't keep people in the dark forever though. This stuff is buzzing in france and worldwide on social media (the place I learned it from initially). All the juicy stories that the mainstream don't want to show the public. This is just another reason why people have distrust in the garbage known as mainstream media.