Mainstream media can't keep people in the dark forever though. This stuff is buzzing in france and worldwide on social media (the place I learned it from initially). All the juicy stories that the mainstream don't want to show the public. This is just another reason why people have distrust in the garbage known as mainstream media.
Russian cyperwarfare employ thousands of people to put fake news on social media, you are encouraging this fake news as if it were real news. Social media is what you think is real?
Russia hired 1,000 people to create anti-Clinton 'fake news' in key US states during election, Trump-Russia hearings leader reveals
I noticed in the graph showing polling trends that Le Pen had a respectable lead that recently turned into a wafer thin draw. Throw this in with the computer "error" and it is almost impossible to call the election IMO. Also yes I agree the computer glitch may be almost as destructive of an issue if Le Pen indeed wins.
It's been more or less a tie between the top 2 for a month.
What is the 'mainstream media'? How important is the format of our news? When Glenn Greenwald is writing about the NSA in the Guardian does that have a different truth value to him writing similar things on Twitter? Is a documentary posted on Youtube more likely to be accurate than one on the BBC?
Although the decline in investigative journalism in favour of clickbait articles for many media outlets has been rather discouraging... the 24 hour news cycle has left us all a little jaded and punch drunk...
I just want to say congratulations to Turkey and her new Sultan - Recep Tayyip Erdoğan - for winning the referendum and officially becoming a dictatorship.
Russian cyperwarfare employ thousands of people to put fake news on social media, you are encouraging this fake news as if it were real news. Social media is what you think is real?
It's not fake news because it's not even news.
Social media is opinion and testimonials, not news. If an actual news outlet chooses to use facebook as it's medium (e.g CNN) then it is mixture of news+opinion.
LOL! In that report it said the fake news stories from the Russians included "Hillary is sick" ...because as we all know Hillary was the bastion of perfect health!
Even if I was to believe the insane unproven conspiracy... At this rate CNN should just employ those 1000 paid Russian trolls because even the trolls are reporting more accurately than they are.
I listened to conservative media in the days after Hillary got sick (like every human being who has ever lived) and I'd never heard such nonsense in my entire life. People bringing Doctors on their radio show to literally diagnose her with a terminal illness, and to say that she suffered from debilitating seizures because someone flashed a camera phone in her face. Sean Hannity played a montage of her COUGHING over the years to prove to somehow insinuate.....well who the hell knows what he was trying to say. It wasn't meant for rational people. Point being, there actually was a concerted "fake news" effort centered around Hillary's "health problems" and I know because I personally listened to it for a week. Fake news used to be called something else. Much like "trolling" just used to be called "being an asshole", "fake news" just used to be called "bullshit".
Was the video of her collapsing and having to be carried by her arms and legs into her vehicle fake news? Honest question.
I never said it was. If you care to read my post again you'll find that it took on a life of it's own afterwards in the conservative media to the point where they were asking if she had a terminal illness. As far as I remember, she had pneumonia, probably campaigned across the country with it for days before it got to her in the heat in NY, and she was back at a few days later. Last I checked she is still alive and breathing. If anyone actually thinks this a a character flaw, or even matters a little bit, then I don't really know what to say in response. The news reported on it a TON when it happened, and any insinuation otherwise is just plain false. She was sick, it was hot, she got lightheaded and passed out.
This entire discussion also reminds me alot of the fact that a sizable portion of the Trump internet mob is also convinced that Michelle Obama is a.) overweight (which is insane) and b.) is actually a transgender man. The stuff I was reading and hearing about Hillary after she passed out was no less ridiculous. Of course, the people who said (and continue to say) that about Michelle Obama are just "trolling". It's all in good fun. They don't REALLY mean it, except when they do.
@Teo_live It's not only expats who can receive double cards. It can happen to anyone who recently changed address (according to Le Monde). There's no way to know who will benefit from the mistake. Also Macron isn't the left. He's not the right either. He's a banker ideologically flexible. Alain Minc, who certainly would know about that, compares him to a whore. You want the left see Mélenchon.
I disagree with your first line (well at least from a gambling point of view). I was willing to call this election clean until now.
So in short you've already decided to believe this is an anti Le Pen conspiracy and since your British tabloids are stating just that, they're right and French news are wrong. Confirmation bias at its finest.
This isn't uncommon for French Media (or any mainstream EU/US media for that matter). When Le Pen's office got smashed into by political vandals almost nothing in the french media either.
This is just a quick google search and in fact covers multiple similar vandal acts on FN offices. It's laughable to state the media doesn't mention anything bad happening to Le Pen. Moreover, if you look at the official CSA summary on their speaking time in the media, Le Pen is only slightly behind Macron. CSA Le Pen CSA Macron
Make no mistake, Le Pen is totally a "mainstream" candidate. She's no Asselineau, Cheminade or Poutou. This isn't 2002 anymore.
So in short you've already decided to believe this is an anti Le Pen conspiracy and since your British tabloids are stating just that, they're right and French news are wrong. Confirmation bias at its finest.
FAKE NEWS!! (Sorry I couldn't resist lol). You are incorrect I never said anything like that. All I merely claimed in a pissed off manner is this will hurt Le Pen more than anything else. I don't believe in a "anti-le-pen" conspiracy (yet) which is clearly stated when I said: Teo_live: "I do not know if this is an error or a greater conspiracy"
Confirmation bias???? Erm... their will always be bias in the interpretation of data to information? No one here has a crystal ball, no one here can see into the future so an interpretation is our prediction of the future. This is why have a gambler's "bias" when predicting politics as I found it's objectivity is the best way to predict political outcomes (and make easy money). My prediction of the Australian election was almost 100% I was a mere 2 seats off... so it seems to be working out for me
Lol what. French media is constantly covering Le Pen.
Yes just like the American media is constantly covering Trump ...which is mostly negative.
This is old news though to the point I automatically expect alternative-conservatives to be painted in a bad light by most mainstream media out there. CNN seem to be "trying" to make their bias a bit less overt, probably just damage control for the Donna Brazile incident but regardless it's a good start.
Clinton had pneumonia. People said she had Ebola, Parkinson's, and/or a terminal illness. She had none of those things. So yes, those reports were fake. If a doctor gives you a wrong diagnosis, he can't very well excuse it by saying "Well, I did know you were sick."
I disagree.
A lot of the over the top conspiracy sickness reports I watched were clearly hypothesis. An "expert opinion" is not fake news, it is merely a opinion before the fact.
However saying she is "perfectly fine" is fake news since she clearly wasn't fine by any standard. If I have pneumonia I would much rather a doctor say "Teo you MIGHT have a flu" rather than one saying "Teo you are fine". One is a incorrect professional opinion without proper diagnosis while the other is a incorrect diagnosis.
Erdogan's victory in Turkey seems to have been rather narrow, and is still somewhat disputed. Some very odd behaviour by the voting commision and results from the Kurdish provinces. Regardless the country has started on a new course which has potential for greater conflict with local minorities and other regional powers, although some may see it as another reaction against secular elites.
So in short you've already decided to believe this is an anti Le Pen conspiracy and since your British tabloids are stating just that, they're right and French news are wrong. Confirmation bias at its finest.
FAKE NEWS!! (Sorry I couldn't resist lol). You are incorrect I never said anything like that. All I merely claimed in a pissed off manner is this will hurt Le Pen more than anything else. I don't believe in a "anti-le-pen" conspiracy (yet) which is clearly stated when I said: Teo_live: "I do not know if this is an error or a greater conspiracy"
You said this:
I disagree with your first line (well at least from a gambling point of view). I was willing to call this election clean until now.
My first line was this:
It's not only expats who can receive double cards. It can happen to anyone who recently changed address (according to Le Monde). There's no way to know who will benefit from the mistake.
Followed by an article from Le Monde explaining just that, why it is like this, and that it already happened in 2012.
I'm willing to admit I misinterpreted, but try to word things less ambiguously then.
Lol what. French media is constantly covering Le Pen.
Yes just like the American media is constantly covering Trump ...which is mostly negative.
Negative press is a lot better than no press at all, Trump being the shining example of this. It's also besides the point. You stated the French media doesn't talk about vandalism on the FN offices and this is clearly false.
The FN-media relationship improved considerably during the last decade. In 2002 journalists were outright refusing to interview Jean-Marie Le Pen and the CSA had to force them to do so to respect the law on parole time equality. Voting FN was something of a mark of shame, you would only admit it in very closed circles.
In order to understand better you need to realize that the Front National isn't alternative-conservative. It's an old party founded by a veteran of the Algerian War and was originally staffed by former Waffen SS. It's old school far-right. It gained quick popularity amongst the nostalgics of the French Algeria but Le Pen created a glass ceiling on his own career thanks to his revisionist tirades (the most famous of them calling the gas chambers "a minor detail of history"). It was crippling for him because there were a lot of former members of the Resistance within the classic conservatives and De Gaulle was strongly idolized.
It eventually became mainstream because his daughter tried to distance herself from the party's past (with questionable success really -- see her latest declaration on the Vel d'Hiv) and because Nicolas Sarkozy copied a lot of the FN themes and rhetoric during his 2007 campaign.
tl;dr You aren't talking about a plucky new challenger here.
This story doesn't matter except as a matter of brazen hypocrisy. But if Michelle Obama had had to nudge Barack to remind him to put his hand over his heart during then National Anthem at the Easter Egg roll, the right-wing media would have branded him an unpatriotic traitor within 5 minutes. I don't give a shit if anyone engages in these ritualistic signs of fake patriotism or not. What I do care about quite a bit is a conservative culture that pretends to care about this nonsense and then doesn't say a word when Trump engages in actual behavior they accused Obama of. Take the issue of religion. The Obama family frequently went to church while in office. Trump couldn't find a church if his life depended on it. Imagine the outrage from the religious right if the Obamas had skipped Eastern Sunday services to lounge at a Florida resort.
Point is this: if you are going to be the party and red, white and blue flag-waving and claim to have a monopoly on religious values, you damn well better have a candidate who lives up to those standards, or be prepared to eat hypocrisy charges for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
And just when I decide to be fair and give CNN some credit they decide to do this to me... Here is CNN footage that happened after the shooters picture was made public:
CNN please tell me this is a prank... or a computer malfunction or something....
Did they just "forget" that the suspect happened to be black? Was their so called "fact-checkers" taking a break when they chose not to add the black man's photo?
Was this just another "mistake"? Many people claim CNN deliberately did this to be politically correct. I don't know why CNN dropped the ball but it doesn't really matter now as regardless this reporting blunder could have resulted in people getting killed ffs!
Mainstream media... once again the true "fake news" (with deadly consequences...)
And just when I decide to be fair and give CNN some credit they decide to do this to me... Here is CNN footage that happened after the shooters picture was made public:
CNN please tell me this is a prank... or a computer malfunction or something....
Did they just "forget" that the suspect happened to be black? Was their so called "fact-checkers" taking a break when they chose not to add the black man's photo?
Was this just another "mistake"? Many people claim CNN deliberately did this to be politically correct. I don't know why CNN dropped the ball but it doesn't really matter now as regardless this reporting blunder could have resulted in people getting killed ffs!
Mainstream media... once again the true "fake news" (with deadly consequences...)
Just checked CNN website and they're still showing his picture so no conspiracy. Must have been a glitch at the time you looked...
...I am pretty sure "bigots" isn't the valid concern here lol. I also don't buy Gizmodo's "fact-check" claiming CNN did this before they knew he was black. Even on the other side of the world we knew he was black when CNN aired the footage.
I think your right I highly doubt a conspiracy here CNN probably made a genuine accident or some type of glitch maybe (at least I hope so). Still this isn't a good look at all for the already diminished trust in CNN and the mainstream in general...
No topic of fake news can possibly be talked about without mentioning that the Trump Dossier of laughably horrible quality was actually published and then taken somewhat seriously by a number of outlets.
The media as a whole would have never taken such absurd allegations about Obama for a moment seriously, such as the birth certificate thing of oh so long ago now. That is far less wildly unbelievable and was treated with much more disdain.
And just when I decide to be fair and give CNN some credit they decide to do this to me... Here is CNN footage that happened after the shooters picture was made public:
CNN please tell me this is a prank... or a computer malfunction or something....
Did they just "forget" that the suspect happened to be black? Was their so called "fact-checkers" taking a break when they chose not to add the black man's photo?
Was this just another "mistake"? Many people claim CNN deliberately did this to be politically correct. I don't know why CNN dropped the ball but it doesn't really matter now as regardless this reporting blunder could have resulted in people getting killed ffs!
Mainstream media... once again the true "fake news" (with deadly consequences...)
There is nothing fake about this. That isnt fake news. That is the description of the suspect.
If anything, the graphic was designed before they had the picture and didnt have time to correct it before it aired.
But you know, the internet likes to blow up over nothing.
No topic of fake news can possibly be talked about without mentioning that the Trump Dossier of laughably horrible quality was actually published and then taken somewhat seriously by a number of outlets.
The media as a whole would have never taken such absurd allegations about Obama for a moment seriously, such as the birth certificate thing of oh so long ago now. That is far less wildly unbelievable and was treated with much more disdain.
Except the dossier was presented as is, in nother words, as the story itself. Buzzfeed made no claims to it's validity at the time nor ever, and simply presented the contents of a document that existed. By the way, alot of the dossier is proving to actually be right on the money. It was raw Intel from a former MI-6 Agent, it was never presented as fact. Furthermore, CNN and other outlets refused to cover it at all until the Buzzfeed publication, which flies in the face of these accusations. They held the story because they couldn't verify much of it, which is exactly what you'd expect you'd want them to do. Also....Buzzfeed. Are they the "mainstream media" now??
Also, the birther conspiracy is not "far less wildly unbelievable" then the dossier. It assumes that Barack Obama was born in Kenya and his parents put a fake announcement in a Hawaiian newspaper in the hope that 40 years later he would be illegally elected President of the United States. The Lord of the Rings is more realistic than that scenario. And maybe the media didn't take it very seriously, but Republican voters sure did, as did your President, who peddled the theory like a racist Pez Dispenser for 5+ years.
That journalists are prepared to throw wild, unproven allegations out there with no verifiable evidence as to it's validity by their own admission is precisely my point.
That journalists are prepared to throw wild, unproven allegations out there with no verifiable evidence as to it's validity by their own admission is precisely my point.
They did not throw wild unproven allegations. The report on CNN was that the Trump Administration had been presented this report (that BuzzFeed later published which is a separate issue). That 100% happened, the Trump administration had seen that report.
No claim was made to the veracity of the contents or individual events other than that the source had been credible in the past. This is also true.
I remember when Buzzfeed posted that article. Buzzfeed was quite up-front about the fact that the dossier was unverified. They didn't portray it as fact; they portrayed it as the rumor that it was.
I don't think they should have bothered publishing the article before verifying the dossier's claims, but they did explicitly say that it was not verified. It's not like they saw a random allegation and acted like it was true.
There is nothing fake about this. That isnt fake news. That is the description of the suspect. If anything, the graphic was designed before they had the picture and didnt have time to correct it before it aired.
I was willing to give CNN the benefit of the doubt here of a "computer error" or something however if what you say is true then it is worse than fake news... it is incompetent news
Perhaps fire all the CNN staff who "didn't have time" and hire people with a little more expertise instead? Honestly their is no excuse for CNN's constant screw ups at this point.
I see nothing about the time-frame of when this graphic went up. When did this air?? Had law enforcement released a clear photo when it happened?? If you have a clear time this went on the air and it is after officials released the photo, then fine. But then ask this: what possible point could it serve for CNN to deliberately hide the identity of the suspect when every other news outlet on Earth and online has already put it out?? No cable news outlet, who traffic in sensationalism, has ever had any qualms about releasing these photos. They certainly showed the photo of the African-American shooter in Dallas, so why would they start now?? You are among those who accuses those on the left of making everything about race, but you yourself have chosen to make a single infographic without the proper time context as possible proof of a conspiracy to hide the race of a murder suspect because of "political correctness". I mean, I don't even LIKE CNN myself, but for far different reasons than this.
Comments
Russia hired 1,000 people to create anti-Clinton 'fake news' in key US states during election, Trump-Russia hearings leader reveals
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/russian-trolls-hilary-clinton-fake-news-election-democrat-mark-warner-intelligence-committee-a7657641.html
Now they are doing the same thing in the French election.
Although the decline in investigative journalism in favour of clickbait articles for many media outlets has been rather discouraging... the 24 hour news cycle has left us all a little jaded and punch drunk...
Social media is opinion and testimonials, not news. If an actual news outlet chooses to use facebook as it's medium (e.g CNN) then it is mixture of news+opinion. LOL! In that report it said the fake news stories from the Russians included "Hillary is sick" ...because as we all know Hillary was the bastion of perfect health!
Even if I was to believe the insane unproven conspiracy...
At this rate CNN should just employ those 1000 paid Russian trolls because even the trolls are reporting more accurately than they are.
The lefts invented term "fake news" is backfiring so hard that some of them now want to get rid of the term altogether. Probably because so many of us are pointing out that the actual news outlets are usually the true "fake news".
theblaze.com/news/2017/01/10/after-wapo-is-criticized-for-fake-news-story-newspaper-columnist-now-wants-to-ban-the-term/
[I love some of the comments from people below the article]
The only 'fake news' I saw was some media outlets saying she is 'perfectly fine' as she wobbled about deliriously
Boy that Romney humiliated himself after coming out against Trump he licked his boots trying to become secretary of state! Humiliating.
This entire discussion also reminds me alot of the fact that a sizable portion of the Trump internet mob is also convinced that Michelle Obama is a.) overweight (which is insane) and b.) is actually a transgender man. The stuff I was reading and hearing about Hillary after she passed out was no less ridiculous. Of course, the people who said (and continue to say) that about Michelle Obama are just "trolling". It's all in good fun. They don't REALLY mean it, except when they do.
People said she had Ebola, Parkinson's, and/or a terminal illness. She had none of those things. So yes, those reports were fake.
If a doctor gives you a wrong diagnosis, he can't very well excuse it by saying "Well, I did know you were sick."
Valeurs actuelles (right wing media)
France-Politique (neutral)
BMFTV
Le Parisien, on a similar 2015 incident
This is just a quick google search and in fact covers multiple similar vandal acts on FN offices. It's laughable to state the media doesn't mention anything bad happening to Le Pen. Moreover, if you look at the official CSA summary on their speaking time in the media, Le Pen is only slightly behind Macron.
CSA Le Pen
CSA Macron
Make no mistake, Le Pen is totally a "mainstream" candidate. She's no Asselineau, Cheminade or Poutou. This isn't 2002 anymore.
You are incorrect I never said anything like that. All I merely claimed in a pissed off manner is this will hurt Le Pen more than anything else. I don't believe in a "anti-le-pen" conspiracy (yet) which is clearly stated when I said:
Teo_live: "I do not know if this is an error or a greater conspiracy"
Confirmation bias???? Erm... their will always be bias in the interpretation of data to information? No one here has a crystal ball, no one here can see into the future so an interpretation is our prediction of the future. This is why have a gambler's "bias" when predicting politics as I found it's objectivity is the best way to predict political outcomes (and make easy money). My prediction of the Australian election was almost 100% I was a mere 2 seats off... so it seems to be working out for me
This is old news though to the point I automatically expect alternative-conservatives to be painted in a bad light by most mainstream media out there. CNN seem to be "trying" to make their bias a bit less overt, probably just damage control for the Donna Brazile incident but regardless it's a good start.
A lot of the over the top conspiracy sickness reports I watched were clearly hypothesis. An "expert opinion" is not fake news, it is merely a opinion before the fact.
However saying she is "perfectly fine" is fake news since she clearly wasn't fine by any standard. If I have pneumonia I would much rather a doctor say "Teo you MIGHT have a flu" rather than one saying "Teo you are fine". One is a incorrect professional opinion without proper diagnosis while the other is a incorrect diagnosis.
There is a big difference between the two IMO
I'm willing to admit I misinterpreted, but try to word things less ambiguously then. Negative press is a lot better than no press at all, Trump being the shining example of this. It's also besides the point. You stated the French media doesn't talk about vandalism on the FN offices and this is clearly false.
The FN-media relationship improved considerably during the last decade. In 2002 journalists were outright refusing to interview Jean-Marie Le Pen and the CSA had to force them to do so to respect the law on parole time equality. Voting FN was something of a mark of shame, you would only admit it in very closed circles.
In order to understand better you need to realize that the Front National isn't alternative-conservative. It's an old party founded by a veteran of the Algerian War and was originally staffed by former Waffen SS. It's old school far-right. It gained quick popularity amongst the nostalgics of the French Algeria but Le Pen created a glass ceiling on his own career thanks to his revisionist tirades (the most famous of them calling the gas chambers "a minor detail of history"). It was crippling for him because there were a lot of former members of the Resistance within the classic conservatives and De Gaulle was strongly idolized.
It eventually became mainstream because his daughter tried to distance herself from the party's past (with questionable success really -- see her latest declaration on the Vel d'Hiv) and because Nicolas Sarkozy copied a lot of the FN themes and rhetoric during his 2007 campaign.
tl;dr You aren't talking about a plucky new challenger here.
Point is this: if you are going to be the party and red, white and blue flag-waving and claim to have a monopoly on religious values, you damn well better have a candidate who lives up to those standards, or be prepared to eat hypocrisy charges for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Here is CNN footage that happened after the shooters picture was made public:
CNN please tell me this is a prank... or a computer malfunction or something....
Did they just "forget" that the suspect happened to be black? Was their so called "fact-checkers" taking a break when they chose not to add the black man's photo?
Was this just another "mistake"? Many people claim CNN deliberately did this to be politically correct. I don't know why CNN dropped the ball but it doesn't really matter now as regardless this reporting blunder could have resulted in people getting killed ffs!
Mainstream media... once again the true "fake news" (with deadly consequences...)
Gizmodo makes the claim that is all the work of "bigots" of an alt-right conspiracy theory of misinformation.
gizmodo.com/bigots-are-using-a-bizarre-meme-about-dark-white-skin-t-1794386241
...I am pretty sure "bigots" isn't the valid concern here lol. I also don't buy Gizmodo's "fact-check" claiming CNN did this before they knew he was black. Even on the other side of the world we knew he was black when CNN aired the footage.
I think your right I highly doubt a conspiracy here CNN probably made a genuine accident or some type of glitch maybe (at least I hope so). Still this isn't a good look at all for the already diminished trust in CNN and the mainstream in general...
The media as a whole would have never taken such absurd allegations about Obama for a moment seriously, such as the birth certificate thing of oh so long ago now. That is far less wildly unbelievable and was treated with much more disdain.
If anything, the graphic was designed before they had the picture and didnt have time to correct it before it aired.
But you know, the internet likes to blow up over nothing.
Also, the birther conspiracy is not "far less wildly unbelievable" then the dossier. It assumes that Barack Obama was born in Kenya and his parents put a fake announcement in a Hawaiian newspaper in the hope that 40 years later he would be illegally elected President of the United States. The Lord of the Rings is more realistic than that scenario. And maybe the media didn't take it very seriously, but Republican voters sure did, as did your President, who peddled the theory like a racist Pez Dispenser for 5+ years.
No claim was made to the veracity of the contents or individual events other than that the source had been credible in the past. This is also true.
I don't think they should have bothered publishing the article before verifying the dossier's claims, but they did explicitly say that it was not verified. It's not like they saw a random allegation and acted like it was true.
Perhaps fire all the CNN staff who "didn't have time" and hire people with a little more expertise instead? Honestly their is no excuse for CNN's constant screw ups at this point. Thank goodness for that!!
It may have helped save peoples lives by allowing people to know the identity of the suspect in much greater detail.