Seems odd that the Acolyte of Beshaba and Moandar have the same spell spheres. Even the specialty spell sphere is the same of Plant (Makes sense for Moandar, but not Beshaba). Only their special abilities differ.
Did som messing around with an Minion of Moander and a few stuff came up. First of all, will the Minion stay just an acolyte kit or will it be implemented as an Cleric/Thief and Cleric/Mage kit aswell? When you get HLA, there are two that are just blank and doesnt seem to do anything (both use the Entagle symbol). Also, the Earth Element shapeshift "weapons" stick around after you change back to human form. Did you ever get around to make the Plant-sphere HLA? Because I can't seem to find it. The Stalker spell is both a level 6 and 7 spell. And if I recall correctly there was talk about a Shambling Mound shapeshift, but can't seem to find it.
All in all great work, this mod have given me tons of replay value to the game! Love the Ur-Priest! ( a Ghaunadaur kit, druid or cleric, would be sooo sweet! )
Seems odd that the Acolyte of Beshaba and Moandar have the same spell spheres. Even the specialty spell sphere is the same of Plant (Makes sense for Moandar, but not Beshaba). Only their special abilities differ.
you are right, they have exactly the same sphere access, whether Minor, Major, or Focus. Only their fluff and special abilities differ.
Well, Beshaba (and Tymora) came into being because Moander's creeper vines infected Tyche, goddess of fate and all types of luck, good and bad; so I think it makes some sense that she has Plant focus. And the plant spells to a large degree are about making someone's day a really miserable one; like being Entangled and then a Shambling Mound forms in the compost pile next to you.....
Looking over the spheres, I see no better alternatives than Plant for Beshaba's focus; though perhaps Death (really bad luck as in damage), Destruction (same, though Destruction is a quite unsubtle, Invoker-style sphere), Dread (really bad luck as in terrible saving throws and morale), Affliction (same reason as Dread but expressed as bodily harm) are also good options. I suppose a whole new sphere (Misfortune) could be pieced together from these spheres, but it hardly seems worth it for just one kit.
hmmmm......
All in all, perhaps Dread is a better Focus sphere for Beshaba's acolyte, but Dread duplicates several special abilities of that acolyte already. Which, I suppose, is why @subtledoctor and @Grammarsalad went with Plant instead (?).
I see neither my Acolyte of Beshaba or Mondar get the assassin vine spell. 5th and 6th level spells don't have it. My Acolyte of Baervan has it at 6th level.
Edit: Both Beshaba and Moandar get to summon water elemental at 5th level as if they have water focus. Even has Focus in parenthesis in the spell book.
I see neither my Acolyte of Beshaba or Mondar get the assassin vine spell. 5th and 6th level spells don't have it. My Acolyte of Baervan has it at 6th level.
Edit: Both Beshaba and Moandar get to summon water elemental at 5th level as if they have water focus. Even has Focus in parenthesis in the spell book.
That's weird. That would have to be an issue with plant focus. Those are all created spells so i know where to look. Thanks
It's always possible the sphere list from one kit was copied and pasted into the code for another kit, and then we forgot to change the spheres.
I agree Dread works better as s focus sphere for Beshaba. Or, in a pinch, Affliction. But really I might think: Beshaba -> Dread Moander-> Affliction Silvanus -> Plant
The idea with a Dark God having a not so dark sphere as Focus is more intresting, i.e Moander have Focus: Plant, breaks the standard that all evil things have evil focus, this is all from an RP point of view ofcourse.
Also, I found the shambling mound shapeshift spell, but two things I noted was: - It's called Natures Wrath, same as one of the HLA, maybe one of them should be renamed? - When the spell is cast and you select the character via clicking thier portrait, the game crashes. Selecting your paperdoll by draging the mouse seems to work.
The 3rd level spell Giant Insect says I should get 2-3 beetles when cast. I frequently just get one. I have no other summons at the time, so a limit cap should not be the problem.
It's always possible the sphere list from one kit was copied and pasted into the code for another kit, and then we forgot to change the spheres.
I agree Dread works better as s focus sphere for Beshaba. Or, in a pinch, Affliction. But really I might think: Beshaba -> Dread Moander-> Affliction Silvanus -> Plant
The idea with a Dark God having a not so dark sphere as Focus is more intresting, i.e Moander have Focus: Plant, breaks the standard that all evil things have evil focus, this is all from an RP point of view ofcourse.
Also, I found the shambling mound shapeshift spell, but two things I noted was: - It's called Natures Wrath, same as one of the HLA, maybe one of them should be renamed? - When the spell is cast and you select the character via clicking thier portrait, the game crashes. Selecting your paperdoll by draging the mouse seems to work.
gha! My right hand doesn't know what my left hand is doing. Thank you for pointing out those issues with Nature's Wrath. Added to my growing to do list.
I originally gave Moander focus in plant because of the story outlined by @rrchristensen . I'm sure that I copied the list over to Beshaba and forgot to modify it.
One thought that I had--I have to investigate the possibility of doing this first--this is another instance of right hand/left hand ignorance (the [brilliant] sphere system is subtle's baby)--is introducing 'subspheres' that are slight variations on a particular sphere and unique to only a few gods (e.g. perhaps to 'themed' gods like the gods of fury). The idea is inspired by pathfinder Subdomains. A 'subsphere' is a sphere that resembles some more standard sphere, but that possesses a more specialized theme within that sphere. A great example is 'decay' which is described in pathfinder as a subdomain of plant. This could be the focus of Moander acolytes, for example (seems thematically appropriate).
My too-ambitious plan is to incorporate all gods from the forgotten realms, but one clear issue with that is that almost inevitably there is going to be overlap like the Moander/Beshaba fiasco. Of course, I can differentiate them with special abilities, but I want to do more if possible.
(boy, I can't wait to get back to this +/- full time. Only about a week or so to go).
The 3rd level spell Giant Insect says I should get 2-3 beetles when cast. I frequently just get one. I have no other summons at the time, so a limit cap should not be the problem.
Instead of incorporating ALL gods from FR, why not just incorporate the ones that: A. Firstly seem relevant to the BG game stories (are referenced in the games in one way or another). B. Secondly are diverse/different enough from each other for you to be able to cover most of the spheres without overlaps?
An alternative approach would be to, through dialogue, allow the player to choose their spheres first, and then be presented to a list of deities that match that choice (for kit abilities etc). But that would mean rethinking the whole workflow of creating a cleric/priest. So maybe not
I cannot select/memorize the cleric/druid spell properly for NPC, i.e. Jaheira. I have installed the first component all kit sphere and kit selection in dialog in vanilla game and modded game but still having this problem.
The issue is I can see there is 4 slots in Level 2 druid in Jaheira's spell book but I can only choose 3 slots and the last one left no response, for Level 4, I cannot even select any of them.
I do experience this. It will let you pick properly at some point. The issue that I can't address is the starting spells for Jaheria still show in the spell casting icon even though you can't cast them.
Edit: Try saving and reloading to get all slots able to load spells (I think). Going up a level can also fix the memorization slots (though not the spells that show in the casting icon).
Hmmm. I am not sure why it works for me at some point?
I just tried using EE Keeper to memorize the spell at the level having issues and it helps. In short, after using EE Keeper the spell of Jaheria works normal, at least at the beginning of game.
I cannot select/memorize the cleric/druid spell properly for NPC, i.e. Jaheira. I have installed the first component all kit sphere and kit selection in dialog in vanilla game and modded game but still having this problem.
The issue is I can see there is 4 slots in Level 2 druid in Jaheira's spell book but I can only choose 3 slots and the last one left no response, for Level 4, I cannot even select any of them.
Any fix on this issue?
That is strange. I'm fairly certain that that is a game bug...
@Grammarsalad, in my opinion after playing around with this, it is something related to F&P, because uninstall and problem is gone. It is not just Jaheria that has the issue. All the priest NPCs (Viconia, Arie, Jaheria) have the issue (if you have F&P installed). It seems the mod is not clearing the default memorized spells from the NPCs when you select their kit. You don't see the spells in the spell book, but when you click the cast magic button next to the quick slots you see the spells there. You can't cast the spells, they are just there.
@Grammarsalad, in my opinion after playing around with this, it is something related to F&P, because uninstall and problem is gone. It is not just Jaheria that has the issue. All the priest NPCs (Viconia, Arie, Jaheria) have the issue (if you have F&P installed). It seems the mod is not clearing the default memorized spells from the NPCs when you select their kit. You don't see the spells in the spell book, but when you click the cast magic button next to the quick slots you see the spells there. You can't cast the spells, they are just there.
@Grammarsalad Even modded cleric NPC is having the same problem, I chose Adrian to become Cleric/Mage and his cleric spell book is not functioning properly.
@Grammarsalad@subtledoctor I have had issues with the shaman class. I can't level up with a shaman because when I do, I have to choose extra spells, but with this mod you can't select more than one spell per level, which litterally blocks me on the spell selection menu. Adding known spells through EEKeeper is doable though, but currently the only way to get around this is to manually level up from EEKeeper and add the spells. You certainly have a better solution planned for future but my suggestion would be to copy the TnB dialogue system for sorcerers, and remove the spell selection from level up, which would solve this problem as well as giving shamans exactly the spells you want them to have available.
Just found another problem regarding dual class, I tried dual class from fighter to cleric and there is no select deity innate which means I only got 1-2 spells on each level. I think it is not normal?
Just found another problem regarding dual class, I tried dual class from fighter to cleric and there is no select deity innate which means I only got 1-2 spells on each level. I think it is not normal?
It is an issue I reported already. If you dual from a kitted fighter/mage/thief to cleric, the 1-kit limit causes the mod to bug and not give you the select deity ability. It is normal in the sense that you can't have two kits (and ultimately, the cleric kit will override the previous kit, as subtledoctor said a couple of pages ago).
@subtledoctor That's something I look forward to! @Grammarsalad Could you occasionally update the bug tracker? This would definitely help us pointing new bugs only and not bother you with bugs you already know of but got drowned in the fifty pages of the thread.
... @Grammarsalad Could you occasionally update the bug tracker? This would definitely help us pointing new bugs only and not bother you with bugs you already know of but got drowned in the fifty pages of the thread.
Good point.
I'll probably create a bug tracker i my second post. For now-- this is not perfect-- you can look here to get an idea of what is going on with bugs.
As @subtledoctor has said, we're pretty crazy right now, but yeah, more updates coming
Comments
First of all, will the Minion stay just an acolyte kit or will it be implemented as an Cleric/Thief and Cleric/Mage kit aswell?
When you get HLA, there are two that are just blank and doesnt seem to do anything (both use the Entagle symbol). Also, the Earth Element shapeshift "weapons" stick around after you change back to human form.
Did you ever get around to make the Plant-sphere HLA? Because I can't seem to find it.
The Stalker spell is both a level 6 and 7 spell. And if I recall correctly there was talk about a Shambling Mound shapeshift, but can't seem to find it.
All in all great work, this mod have given me tons of replay value to the game! Love the Ur-Priest!
( a Ghaunadaur kit, druid or cleric, would be sooo sweet! )
Well, Beshaba (and Tymora) came into being because Moander's creeper vines infected Tyche, goddess of fate and all types of luck, good and bad; so I think it makes some sense that she has Plant focus. And the plant spells to a large degree are about making someone's day a really miserable one; like being Entangled and then a Shambling Mound forms in the compost pile next to you.....
Looking over the spheres, I see no better alternatives than Plant for Beshaba's focus; though perhaps Death (really bad luck as in damage), Destruction (same, though Destruction is a quite unsubtle, Invoker-style sphere), Dread (really bad luck as in terrible saving throws and morale), Affliction (same reason as Dread but expressed as bodily harm) are also good options. I suppose a whole new sphere (Misfortune) could be pieced together from these spheres, but it hardly seems worth it for just one kit.
hmmmm......
All in all, perhaps Dread is a better Focus sphere for Beshaba's acolyte, but Dread duplicates several special abilities of that acolyte already. Which, I suppose, is why @subtledoctor and @Grammarsalad went with Plant instead (?).
Oh... Yes, moander will have cleric mages and cleric thieves
Edit: Both Beshaba and Moandar get to summon water elemental at 5th level as if they have water focus. Even has Focus in parenthesis in the spell book.
Also, I found the shambling mound shapeshift spell, but two things I noted was:
- It's called Natures Wrath, same as one of the HLA, maybe one of them should be renamed?
- When the spell is cast and you select the character via clicking thier portrait, the game crashes. Selecting your paperdoll by draging the mouse seems to work.
I originally gave Moander focus in plant because of the story outlined by @rrchristensen . I'm sure that I copied the list over to Beshaba and forgot to modify it.
One thought that I had--I have to investigate the possibility of doing this first--this is another instance of right hand/left hand ignorance (the [brilliant] sphere system is subtle's baby)--is introducing 'subspheres' that are slight variations on a particular sphere and unique to only a few gods (e.g. perhaps to 'themed' gods like the gods of fury). The idea is inspired by pathfinder Subdomains. A 'subsphere' is a sphere that resembles some more standard sphere, but that possesses a more specialized theme within that sphere. A great example is 'decay' which is described in pathfinder as a subdomain of plant. This could be the focus of Moander acolytes, for example (seems thematically appropriate).
My too-ambitious plan is to incorporate all gods from the forgotten realms, but one clear issue with that is that almost inevitably there is going to be overlap like the Moander/Beshaba fiasco. Of course, I can differentiate them with special abilities, but I want to do more if possible.
(boy, I can't wait to get back to this +/- full time. Only about a week or so to go). Thanks for the feedback. I'll look into it.
A. Firstly seem relevant to the BG game stories (are referenced in the games in one way or another).
B. Secondly are diverse/different enough from each other for you to be able to cover most of the spheres without overlaps?
An alternative approach would be to, through dialogue, allow the player to choose their spheres first, and then be presented to a list of deities that match that choice (for kit abilities etc). But that would mean rethinking the whole workflow of creating a cleric/priest. So maybe not
I cannot select/memorize the cleric/druid spell properly for NPC, i.e. Jaheira. I have installed the first component all kit sphere and kit selection in dialog in vanilla game and modded game but still having this problem.
The issue is I can see there is 4 slots in Level 2 druid in Jaheira's spell book but I can only choose 3 slots and the last one left no response, for Level 4, I cannot even select any of them.
Any fix on this issue?
Edit: Try saving and reloading to get all slots able to load spells (I think). Going up a level can also fix the memorization slots (though not the spells that show in the casting icon).
@subtledoctor That's something I look forward to!
@Grammarsalad Could you occasionally update the bug tracker? This would definitely help us pointing new bugs only and not bother you with bugs you already know of but got drowned in the fifty pages of the thread.
I'll probably create a bug tracker i my second post. For now-- this is not perfect-- you can look here to get an idea of what is going on with bugs.
As @subtledoctor has said, we're pretty crazy right now, but yeah, more updates coming