Attached please find some updated spell and sphere information.
Note, that a) the listings here are incomplete and b) not all of the changes here have been implemented in the current build. But, this is certainly the most up to date information on spells and sphere info.
@ineth Would it be helpful if I made these into google docs? Actually, that would even be helpful for me...
I just tried to install F&P on IWD:ee, and ran into some difficulty. The install-everything option did not work. I had to install each component by hand (option 3). The cleric of Kelemvor, as well as all ranger/scout kits, would not install. Just thought you'd like to know. EDIT: Also, a whole bunch of other kits were simply skipped during hte installation process without my say-so - including the Champion of Gruumsh, and all the Acolytes. A Clue, perhaps: There are no more than 10 kits in any category.
I installed F&P last, which may have been a mistake. Weidu and debug.file attached - I had to rename the latter file to be allowed to attach it here.
The thing is, this mod kind of has to mess with some usability flags. To make a difference between Clerics' and Acolytes' armor usability means using at least one of the cleric kit flags. Enabling the new druid multiclasses to behave like real druids means using another.
Weapon use is a different story... honestly I don't know. Maybe we should pull out the code relating to weapon use, and just see how it handles combinations with other mods that liberalize priest weapons, like Tweaks or SoB. If those are satisfactory, great. If we want to do more, or something different, we can do that later.
Oh, please leave the weapon proficiency liberalizations as they are. Clerics and acolytes etc. really need access to more weapon types to do Faerunian religions justice. I mean, Talos clerics without spears? Cyric and Mask followers without daggers? The list goes on.
I just tried to install F&P on IWD:ee, and ran into some difficulty. The cleric of Kelemvor, as well as all ranger/scout kits, would not install. Just thought you'd like to know.
I've not had any issues with the ranger kits (reinstalled everything a few days ago to fix an unrelated bug), so I can't help there, but I think Kelemvor's absence may be intentional. In case you are unaware, Icewind Dale is set in 1281 DR, about 80 years before the Time of Troubles. As such, Kelemvor wasn't even born yet, let alone ascended to godhood. IIRC, he replaced Myrkul as the God of the Dead not long before Baldur's Gate events happened.
Yes, I am aware of that; but I think the authors of this mod have been awfully clever: somewhere back in this thread i think Grammarsalad explains that the Kelemvor kit willy simply be renamed as a Myrkul kit, but will otherwise be the same mechanically. Can't find that reference right now, though.
Is there a Champion that replicates some of the fluff and abilities of the Undead Hunter? Champion of Tyr is sort-of close (most undead enemies are evil after all), but not quite what I was looking for.
Yeah, it's the champion of Kelevmore (i.e. the Knight of Eternal Order) in bg(2)ee and the harvester of Mykrul in iwdee.
I'll check the champion. I may have forgotten to add the lay on hands ability...
I can't read the log on my phone, but what install option did you use? If 2, then some of the options should install but won't be displayed because they didn't add a scroll bar as of iwdee. In particular, the acolytes should have installed, but they wouldn't likely display as they are installed after all cleric kits
Also, fewer champion kits do install in iwdee because of limitations regarding falling. That will change when they update iwdee ( which should hopefully be soon considering that they Just released pstee.)
If too much time passes, however, I will find a way to get more champions in there. I could add the eye of Gruumsh by limiting the kit to evil only in iwdee.Actually, the change is simple enough that i could update the mod with just that.
Tempus and the red knight are much trickier. I could make an evil and non evil version of both kits, but the non evil version would fall if rep got too low, while the evil versions wouldn't ...it's easy do, but it would be strange
Well, I tried install option 2, but I was rebuffed, so I had to go with option 3 and click install a whole bunch of times. Some things, as noted above, would not install and rolled back in error; others were simply skipped without asking.
Tempus and the red knight are much trickier. I could make an evil and non evil version of both kits, but the non evil version would fall if rep got too low, while the evil versions wouldn't ...it's easy do, but it would be strange
In fairness, Tempus does promote "honourable warfare", valour and all that other stuff, so I'd assume he'd look down upon one of his servants who goes around massacring civilians for fun. Since I'm pretty sure IWD doesn't have any options for evil other than killing innocent bystanders, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with Tempus champions falling, even if they happen to be of evil alignment. I think it would be ditto for the Red Knight.
BTW, @rrchristensen, I tend to install FnP on IWD:EE using Option 1. If you use Option 2, most of the kits don't show up in the menu (no scrolling bar like BG:EE 2.0) and I tend to have install issues with Option 3. I also tend to put FnP before Might and Guile, tweaks mods and certainly Scales of Balance (if you are using any of them). So far it works absolutely fine for me.
Tempus and the red knight are much trickier. I could make an evil and non evil version of both kits, but the non evil version would fall if rep got too low, while the evil versions wouldn't ...it's easy do, but it would be strange
In fairness, Tempus does promote "honourable warfare", valour and all that other stuff, so I'd assume he'd look down upon one of his servants who goes around massacring civilians for fun. Since I'm pretty sure IWD doesn't have any options for evil other than killing innocent bystanders, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with Tempus champions falling, even if they happen to be of evil alignment. I think it would be ditto for the Red Knight.
BTW, @rrchristensen, I tend to install FnP on IWD:EE using Option 1. If you use Option 2, most of the kits don't show up in the menu (no scrolling bar like BG:EE 2.0) and I tend to have install issues with Option 3. I also tend to put FnP before Might and Guile, tweaks mods and certainly Scales of Balance (if you are using any of them). So far it works absolutely fine for me.
Heh, that's another tricky thing: a Paladin with an evil alignment will automatically fall if it can fall. Ie the only two options are: no fall and must be an evil alignment or, can fall but cannot be an evil alignment.
Thanks for the feedback about option 3. I'll add it to the list
Heh, that's another tricky thing: a Paladin with an evil alignment will automatically fall if it can fall. Ie the only two options are: no fall and must be an evil alignment or, can fall but cannot be an evil alignment.
Ah, I see. In which case, I have an another idea: you could make the evil version of the Champion of Tempus kit and reflavour it as the Champion of Garagos. He represents the more destructive and barbaric aspects of war and so would be better suited for evil characters.
Got it, cheers. I might add TnB and M&G too, but this was just supposed to be a fast-paced romp with fewer mods and less investment than PST or the BGs.
Heh, that's another tricky thing: a Paladin with an evil alignment will automatically fall if it can fall. Ie the only two options are: no fall and must be an evil alignment or, can fall but cannot be an evil alignment.
Ah, I see. In which case, I have an another idea: you could make the evil version of the Champion of Tempus kit and reflavour it as the Champion of Garagos. He represents the more destructive and barbaric aspects of war and so would be better suited for evil characters.
That's not a bad idea. I can essentially Kelemvor/Mykrul it
The spell Stormwall says it should be a 20x5 wall. It acts and looks like a 5x1 wall. I ran all around the little thing and nothing. I needed to run through it to have an effect. It would just cover a doorway but nowhere near a 20x5 wall.
The spell Stormwall says it should be a 20x5 wall. It acts and looks like a 5x1 wall. I ran all around the little thing and nothing. I needed to run through it to have an effect. It would just cover a doorway but nowhere near a 20x5 wall.
If i recall correctly, the projectile is based off of the wall of moonlight spell, which is a similar size (I think!) and is also described as a 20x5 wall. I used the bam from the lightning bolt spell, so perhaps it's smaller. I'd have to compare.
I'm combing through all spells, so I'll keep this in mind when i get to that one
@rrchristensen I also encountered both of those issues, with an option 1 install on a clean IWD:EE with no other mods. (Reported here, although I failed to mention that the Zealot alignment restriction is actually enforced and not just a description issue.)
@ineth Would it be helpful if I made these into google docs? Actually, that would even be helpful for me...
I'm currently making a reader-friendly table of which spells are in each sphere, anyway. When I port my earlier stuff to Google Sheets, I'll add that one too.
Well, here's an interesting development: Zealots cannot be evil in IWD:EE (from GOG) with install option 1.
Not a dealbreaker, I don't necessarily need an evil zealot, but hey.
I roll a Zealot, try to choose alignment, the three evil alignments are greyed out.
ALSO, Mystic kits are given outright, as if I'd chosen install option 2, meaning that the last kit on the list is the Fire Mystic.
Installation and order of same:
IWDNPC RR (without the Bards component, I'll get that from M&G) FnP, install option 1
Debug & weidu attached.
Wow...I don't know how i missed that. I'll take a look sooner rather than later ( and include the other discussed champion stuff).
Of course, this is still crunch time fo me, so it'll still be a bit...
Edit: i think that the reason is again the falling issue, but i think that this was just me being lazy--er, saving time to get the release out the door.
Edit2: I don't think we incorporated mystics into the dialog selection system....
Wow...I don't know how i missed that. I'll take a look sooner rather than later ( and include the other discussed champion stuff).
Of course, this is still crunch time fo me, so it'll still be a bit...
Edit: i think that the reason is again the falling issue, but i think that this was just me being lazy--er, saving time to get the release out the door.
Edit2: I don't think we incorporated mystics into the dialog selection system....
Oh, err, with install option 1, Rangers/Scouts ALSO get their kits directly during character generation as if under install option 2. They're all there: the last one on the list is Arctic Ranger.
The kit-by-dialogue system is back to being for deities only - mystics/druids/rangers/scouts will be in the menus.
I was skeptical of the dialogue system at first, but I actually like it better now than the menu system.
The menu system feels a bit glitchy... E.g. when I click the "Mystic" button to open the respective sub-menu, it'll sometimes show me the archetype descriptions for Druid and Mystic as long as I don't select a kit button, but sometimes immediately shows the description for the first Druid kit, in which case I have to click the "Back" button to take me back to the main menu but with "Mystic" still selected, so I can read the archetype descriptions.
I am now running two Champions (Myrkul and Gruumsh Talos, I guess, he's pretty dull, but it turns out the Gruumsh kit is an Zealot, and evil Zealots won't install...), one mage/acolyte of Shar, one elven f/t, an Artic Druid (who perhaps should've been a Mountain Druid or a Loresinger of Milil bard), and an Earth Mystic that I plan to dual into a fighter at level 4-5-ish. His low-level spells and class abilities would appear to make him a great bulwark. He'll be using blunt weapons only for further thematization.
Incidentally, maybe you could differentiate between the fighting styles* for Elemental mystics? (* I'm using the Scales of Balance version). Currently, mystics cannot take Shield style.
Earth, solid, dependable, bulwark-y, sheltering, defensible, so shield specialization.
Water, everywhere at once, hard to stem, hard to predict; so dual-wielding style;
Fire, quick, nimble, a single touch can be fatal and repeat contact certainly will be, so single-weapon style (which in the Scales of Balance version grants an extra half attack/round) seems perfect;
Wind, hits like a hammer when applied in large amounts and with room to maneouvre; two-handed style. Nothing defensive about wind, so it's not a candidate for shield style.
More feedback, this time after actually building some kitted characters and leveling them up with the console... (Still using install option 1 on IWD:EE 1.4 with no other mods.)
At least two kits don't work at all:
Fastpaws of Baervan:
FAILS TO APPLY: I made a Gnome Cleric/Illusionist in chargen, then used the "Select Deity" ability, and the dialog completed as if everything was fine. But the new kit wasn't applied - the gnome was still considered a Cleric/Illusionist, didn't get the Fastpaws special ability, and got no divine spells other than the Universal Sphere. At first I suspected the pre-existing Illusionist kit might be getting in the way, but the other two Cleric/Mage kits do seem to apply fine on a Gnome Cleric/Illusionist.
Sworn of Cyric:
CRASHES THE GAME: Selecting the kit with the "Select Deity" ability, reliably causes a crash to desktop. (I already reported this w.r.t. choosing the kit for the Cleric/Thief class in one of my earlier feedback dumps, but now I confirmed that it also happens when selecting the kit for a single-class Cleric.)
A bunch of smaller issues with individual spells (and their descriptions/icons):
[spoiler]Forbiddance:
Is only given to characters with Major Access to the Thought sphere, even though it is a level 2 spell.
Murderous Command:
Is only given to characters with Major Access to the Thought sphere, even though it is a level 3 spell.
Disrupt Undead:
Says "Sphere: Death", but is actually in the Life sphere.
Slow Poison:
Says "Sphere: Healing", but is actually in the Universal sphere.
Lesser Restoration:
Says "Sphere: Necromantic", but is actually in the Universal sphere.
Wondrous Recall:
Says "Sphere: Charm, Creation", but is actually in the Universal sphere.
Holy Word:
Says "Sphere: Combat", but is actually in the Universal sphere.
Unholy Word:
Says "Sphere: Combat", but is actually in the Universal sphere.
Pacify the Dead:
Typo: "to be slowed to be slowed".
Frost Fingers:
"Sphere: Elemental Water" -> "Sphere: Water", for consistency.
Ice Blade:
"Sphere: Elemental Water" -> "Sphere: Water", for consistency.
Pacify the Dead:
Re-uses the "Slow" spell icon.
Cloak of Darkness:
Re-uses the "Blur" spell icon.
Murderous Command:
Re-uses the "Command" spell icon.
Stone Fist:
Called "Stone Fist (Focus)" in the description, even when the character doesn't have Focus Access to the Earth sphere.
"Sphere: Elemental (Earth)" -> "Sphere: Earth", for consistency.
Re-uses the "Shocking Grasp" spell icon.
Stormwall:
"Sphere: Elemental Air" -> "Sphere: Air", for consistency.
Re-uses the "Wall of Moonlight" spell icon.
Misfire:
Summary section is missing the line "Area of Effect: 1 creature".
Re-uses the "Protection from Arrows" spell icon. Suggestion: Turn it red (since it's cast on enemies), to distinguish it.
Conjure Water Elemental:
"Sphere: Elemental (Water)" -> "Sphere: Water", for consistency.
The icon seems wrong. It is red (whereas other summoning spells use a green icon), and the shape looks like it portrays fire rather than water.
Nature's Beauty:
Based on its description, it makes sense that it has been put into the Thought sphere, but the name sounds weird now, with Priest who have no connection to Nature getting access to it. Maybe rename it to something more neutral like "Lethal Beauty"?
Nature's Wrath:
The icon seems unfitting (suggesting a touch-based spell).
Wanted to comment on the lore that the Priest classes get. Seems pretty high (Bard like for Acolytes). Shouldn't they be half (2 Cleric and 4 Acolyte instead of 4 cleric and 8 acolyte)? Just my opinion.
Grammarsalad and subtledoctor, are there files I could put in the override folder that would allow me to use the Shadow spells (Summons)? I believe you indicated earlier that they crash the game because they are missing files so I thought if I know which files and put them in override the spells would work in BGEE and BG2EE.
Comments
Note, that a) the listings here are incomplete and b) not all of the changes here have been implemented in the current build. But, this is certainly the most up to date information on spells and sphere info.
@ineth Would it be helpful if I made these into google docs? Actually, that would even be helpful for me...
I just tried to install F&P on IWD:ee, and ran into some difficulty. The install-everything option did not work. I had to install each component by hand (option 3). The cleric of Kelemvor, as well as all ranger/scout kits, would not install. Just thought you'd like to know.
EDIT: Also, a whole bunch of other kits were simply skipped during hte installation process without my say-so - including the Champion of Gruumsh, and all the Acolytes. A Clue, perhaps: There are no more than 10 kits in any category.
I installed F&P last, which may have been a mistake. Weidu and debug.file attached - I had to rename the latter file to be allowed to attach it here.
Yes, I am aware of that; but I think the authors of this mod have been awfully clever: somewhere back in this thread i think Grammarsalad explains that the Kelemvor kit willy simply be renamed as a Myrkul kit, but will otherwise be the same mechanically. Can't find that reference right now, though.Strike that, I was thinking about a Champion kit:
I can't read the log on my phone, but what install option did you use? If 2, then some of the options should install but won't be displayed because they didn't add a scroll bar as of iwdee. In particular, the acolytes should have installed, but they wouldn't likely display as they are installed after all cleric kits
Also, fewer champion kits do install in iwdee because of limitations regarding falling. That will change when they update iwdee ( which should hopefully be soon considering that they Just released pstee.)
If too much time passes, however, I will find a way to get more champions in there. I could add the eye of Gruumsh by limiting the kit to evil only in iwdee.Actually, the change is simple enough that i could update the mod with just that.
Tempus and the red knight are much trickier. I could make an evil and non evil version of both kits, but the non evil version would fall if rep got too low, while the evil versions wouldn't ...it's easy do, but it would be strange
BTW, @rrchristensen, I tend to install FnP on IWD:EE using Option 1. If you use Option 2, most of the kits don't show up in the menu (no scrolling bar like BG:EE 2.0) and I tend to have install issues with Option 3. I also tend to put FnP before Might and Guile, tweaks mods and certainly Scales of Balance (if you are using any of them). So far it works absolutely fine for me.
Thanks for the feedback about option 3. I'll add it to the list
I'm combing through all spells, so I'll keep this in mind when i get to that one
Not a dealbreaker, I don't necessarily need an evil zealot, but hey.
I roll a Zealot, try to choose alignment, the three evil alignments are greyed out.
ALSO, Mystic kits are given outright, as if I'd chosen install option 2, meaning that the last kit on the list is the Fire Mystic.
Installation and order of same:
IWDNPC
RR (without the Bards component, I'll get that from M&G)
FnP, install option 1
Debug & weidu attached.
I also encountered both of those issues, with an option 1 install on a clean IWD:EE with no other mods.
(Reported here, although I failed to mention that the Zealot alignment restriction is actually enforced and not just a description issue.) I'm currently making a reader-friendly table of which spells are in each sphere, anyway. When I port my earlier stuff to Google Sheets, I'll add that one too.
Of course, this is still crunch time fo me, so it'll still be a bit...
Edit: i think that the reason is again the falling issue, but i think that this was just me being lazy--er, saving time to get the release out the door.
Edit2: I don't think we incorporated mystics into the dialog selection system....
The menu system feels a bit glitchy... E.g. when I click the "Mystic" button to open the respective sub-menu, it'll sometimes show me the archetype descriptions for Druid and Mystic as long as I don't select a kit button, but sometimes immediately shows the description for the first Druid kit, in which case I have to click the "Back" button to take me back to the main menu but with "Mystic" still selected, so I can read the archetype descriptions.
Or maybe that's just an IWD:EE 1.4 issue?
I am now running two Champions (Myrkul and
GruumshTalos, I guess, he's pretty dull, but it turns out the Gruumsh kit is an Zealot, and evil Zealots won't install...), one mage/acolyte of Shar, one elven f/t,an Artic Druid (who perhaps should've been a Mountain Druid ora Loresinger of Milil bard), and an Earth Mystic that I plan to dual into a fighter at level 4-5-ish. His low-level spells and class abilities would appear to make him a great bulwark. He'll be using blunt weapons only for further thematization.Incidentally, maybe you could differentiate between the fighting styles* for Elemental mystics? (* I'm using the Scales of Balance version). Currently, mystics cannot take Shield style.
Earth, solid, dependable, bulwark-y, sheltering, defensible, so shield specialization.
Water, everywhere at once, hard to stem, hard to predict; so dual-wielding style;
Fire, quick, nimble, a single touch can be fatal and repeat contact certainly will be, so single-weapon style (which in the Scales of Balance version grants an extra half attack/round) seems perfect;
Wind, hits like a hammer when applied in large amounts and with room to maneouvre; two-handed style. Nothing defensive about wind, so it's not a candidate for shield style.
(Still using install option 1 on IWD:EE 1.4 with no other mods.)
At least two kits don't work at all:
Fastpaws of Baervan:
- FAILS TO APPLY: I made a Gnome Cleric/Illusionist in chargen, then used the "Select Deity" ability, and the dialog completed as if everything was fine. But the new kit wasn't applied - the gnome was still considered a Cleric/Illusionist, didn't get the Fastpaws special ability, and got no divine spells other than the Universal Sphere. At first I suspected the pre-existing Illusionist kit might be getting in the way, but the other two Cleric/Mage kits do seem to apply fine on a Gnome Cleric/Illusionist.
Sworn of Cyric:- CRASHES THE GAME: Selecting the kit with the "Select Deity" ability, reliably causes a crash to desktop.
A bunch of smaller issues with individual spells (and their descriptions/icons):(I already reported this w.r.t. choosing the kit for the Cleric/Thief class in one of my earlier feedback dumps, but now I confirmed that it also happens when selecting the kit for a single-class Cleric.)
[spoiler]Forbiddance:
- Is only given to characters with Major Access to the Thought sphere, even though it is a level 2 spell.
Murderous Command:- Is only given to characters with Major Access to the Thought sphere, even though it is a level 3 spell.
Disrupt Undead:- Says "Sphere: Death", but is actually in the Life sphere.
Slow Poison:- Says "Sphere: Healing", but is actually in the Universal sphere.
Lesser Restoration:- Says "Sphere: Necromantic", but is actually in the Universal sphere.
Wondrous Recall:- Says "Sphere: Charm, Creation", but is actually in the Universal sphere.
Holy Word:- Says "Sphere: Combat", but is actually in the Universal sphere.
Unholy Word:- Says "Sphere: Combat", but is actually in the Universal sphere.
Pacify the Dead:- Typo: "to be slowed to be slowed".
Frost Fingers:- "Sphere: Elemental Water" -> "Sphere: Water", for consistency.
Ice Blade:- "Sphere: Elemental Water" -> "Sphere: Water", for consistency.
Pacify the Dead:- Re-uses the "Slow" spell icon.
Cloak of Darkness:- Re-uses the "Blur" spell icon.
Murderous Command:- Re-uses the "Command" spell icon.
Stone Fist:- Called "Stone Fist (Focus)" in the description, even when the character doesn't have Focus Access to the Earth sphere.
- "Sphere: Elemental (Earth)" -> "Sphere: Earth", for consistency.
- Re-uses the "Shocking Grasp" spell icon.
Stormwall:- "Sphere: Elemental Air" -> "Sphere: Air", for consistency.
- Re-uses the "Wall of Moonlight" spell icon.
Misfire:- Summary section is missing the line "Area of Effect: 1 creature".
- Re-uses the "Protection from Arrows" spell icon. Suggestion: Turn it red (since it's cast on enemies), to distinguish it.
Conjure Water Elemental:- "Sphere: Elemental (Water)" -> "Sphere: Water", for consistency.
- The icon seems wrong. It is red (whereas other summoning spells use a green icon), and the shape looks like it portrays fire rather than water.
Nature's Beauty:- Based on its description, it makes sense that it has been put into the Thought sphere, but the name sounds weird now, with Priest who have no connection to Nature getting access to it. Maybe rename it to something more neutral like "Lethal Beauty"?
Nature's Wrath:- The icon seems unfitting (suggesting a touch-based spell).
[/spoiler]