All done now. I have been through all the kits systematically, single- as well as multi-class. I have probably missed something, but the updated version of my post from earlier today contains all the errors and bugs I could find.
Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.
If you could fix the issue with the long piece of dialogue assigned in place of the actual name of the Beshaba Acolyte's special ability in the first round of updates, whenever that is, that'd be swell. I want to pair up with Xan and bring bad news and confusion to the Sword Coast.
Yeah, sorry. The readme is way out of date. I'm working on it...slowly. I'm knee deep in uni right now. I'm redoing the readme as i go through bugs (etc.) it'll get done
I just tested it and can confirm that every cleric/acolyte with MAJOR access to the Shadow sphere (Beshaba, Moander, Shar, Mask, Cyric), the Ur-Priest, and the Shadow Mystic get 1 free use of Shadowstep per day. Those with Minor access are unaffected.
Now, I don't know when the 1 Shadowstep/day ability kicks in - I did all the testing in the first area of Throne of Bhaal, so characters were between levels 16-19. Could be at level 1, could be later.
EDIT: Solved it. Created acolytes of Mask (who has Focus access to Shadow) and Shar (who has Major access) in BG1ee and BG2ee: SOA. The ability does NOT kick in at level 1, it kicks in whenever you get access to level 5 spells, which for Mask clerics is at level 7 (4th level spells) due to Focus access, and level 9 for those with Major access. I expect this to be the case for every kit with Major or Focus access to Shadow.
Also, shouldn't Leira's clerics get major access to the Shadow sphere? I mean Illusion, Shadow, in P&P and especially in AD&D 2nd ed, these are closely linked.
In my game, during character creation, I note that all references to MAGE have been replaced with ILLUSIONIST, and this applies to all races that can become mages of any kind, including multi-class combinations. Single-classed wizards, upon choosing ILLUSIONIST where it should have said MAGE, are presented with the usual list of wizardly specializations. The first choice, which used to be generalist MAGE, is now ILLUSIONIST (though the actual kit description is that of the generalist mage), followed by the specializations, including ILLUSIONIST (which has the illusionist’s kit description).
EDIT: Huh. I just started the game again and now this is NOT the case; everything is as it should be. This is super weird. EDIT 2: Due to this inconsistency, I went back and created a Jungle Druid (George o'TheJungle) just to check if Shapechange had failed due to a strange bug. Nope, he still couldn't shapeshift.
Here's my weidu log for reference.
// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods // The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod // ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version] ~FAITHS_AND_POWERS/FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #102 // Select an installation method below: -> all the new kits and the sphere system, but kits in menus: 0.63b
I rolled a character just to try the new druid-hlas in tob. I noticed some bugs, especially with the various summons and shape change abilities. Tested with an arctic druid:
Summoning the ancestral spirit and chain contingency spell chrash the game. The animal horde spell summons 10+ creatures with random strings for names. The special weapons, which are granted when in elemental form, don´t vanish after I am back in human form. Also my spell casting stays disabled (tested for air and water elemental). I can circumvent this with the werewolf shape change, which works fine, but the elemental weapons stay even in werewolf form. Summoning elementals seems to work fine, even if the water elementals are dreadfully slow.
I tested on a clean bg2ee(v. 2.3)+fnp-install(v.0.63) .
Yeah, sorry. The readme is way out of date. I'm working on it...slowly.
No worries, I'll use the chargen menu of a BG2:EE installatiion with install option 2 as my "readme" then.
Speaking of which, the chargen description for the Champion class says nothing about Detect Evil, Protection from Evil, and Lay on Hands, but the Blackguard kit lists the lack of those abilities as a kit restriction. Does that mean that other Champion kits do get them? Either way, one of those descriptions should be updated.
Also, the only vital information that the chargen screen doesn't provide, is the list of spells in each sphere. The files
argh, stuff happened and my bugs-and-errors report from yesterday is now gone. I put an earlier incarnation of my notes in it stead, but not everything from the final version could be salvaged. I hope @subtledoctor and @Grammarsalad got a copy before it went poof.
EDIT: Just recreated it from scratch. I am fairly confident I got all of it.
Just a question, how is your mod supposed to handle Fighter/thief/mage=> cleric duals? Just tried that and it appears that I can only get the spells you gave to every cleric (cure light wounds slow poison etc...), can't choose a deity nor get the usual access to spell a cleric would have.
sphere_list_base.tpa. SR is actually unsupported on IWDEE
So which one is supported on IWD:EE without SR? Or are you waiting for the 2.0 patch to properly support that game?
Wait. What? FnP does work on IWDEE. I was saying that SR does not. SR has never been compatible with IWDEE.
Just wondering which TPA file is being used for a normal IWD install, if sphere_list_base.tpa is unsupported and sphere_list_iwd_sr.tpa is only for SR.
---
By the way, I went through the Champions chargen menu with an "option 2" install on BG2:EE, and made a few tables which other users might find helpful while the readme is still being updated:
Champions and Zealots: Kit Restrictions
Question marks are things I wasn't sure of, because I didn't find a description of the"Zealots" baseclass.
Champions and Zealots: Kit Abilities
Champions and Zealots: Sphere Access
---
I also made a list of issues I encountered with the descriptions in that menu (probably mostly redundant with the things @rrchristensen reported, I didn't check that too closely yet):
[spoiler]Champion of Azuth:
Intro paragraph is unfinished.
Referred to as "Hammer of Moradin" in the Restrictions section.
Champion of Bane:
"anybody that suggests that" -> better: "anybody who suggests that"
Champion of Helm:
Intro paragraph is unfinished.
Typo: "weilded".
Restrictions section mentions no falling at low REP, is this correct? All other champions/zealots with good-or-neutral alignment restriction, have it.
Champion of the Moradin:
Has no intro paragraph.
Restrictions section doesn't mention race restriction. (Not that it matters much, but since it mentions it for the Zealots of Corellon and Gruumsh, it should probably here too.)
Champion of the Red Knight:
Has no intro paragraph.
Referred to as "Everwatch Knight" in the Restrictions section.
Restrictions section says no special smite, but Abilities section lists a special smite.
all Zealots::
Both Champions and Zealots are grouped under the "Champion" menu, so the base description for Zealots isn't shown anywhere. Does this mean that Zealots also get Smite, Turn Undead, and the same armor & weapon usability as Champions?n If not, could that menu be renamed to "Champion or Zealot", and show the base description for both?
There is no empty line before the FRENZY/FURY description.
Zealot of Gruumsh:
"eye of Gruumsh" -> "Eye of Gruumsh".
Zealot of Talos:
"lightningbolt as an innate ability" - it is not clear whether he can only cast this during the frenzy, and how often.
Zealot of Garagos:
"drawn to frenzy of battle" -> "drawn to the frenzy of battle"?
The special ability is called FURY (unlike for the other Zealots where it is called FRENZY), but in its description it is referred to as "Frenzy" twice.
Zealot of Ilmater:
"Companions take on" -> Easy to misunderstand and think it means his frenzy affects the other party members too.
"and is able to" -> should be "and are able to"?
Mixed use of "he" and "they" in the subsequent sentences makes them confusing to read.
On looking over the weapons chart above, for any priest or champion of a deity, it would be a nice touch if they could use the deities weapon of choice. As a half-orc fan, the Gruumsh boys , for ex., aught to have spear as a choice. I'm not sure how your gnomes are shaping up but Urdlen would be a welcome choice, with at least a dagger as an option(in lieu of no freddy krueger like finger knives in the system that they prefer).
You may already have the weapon ideas in mind, just checking.
Just a question, how is your mod supposed to handle Fighter/thief/mage=> cleric duals? Just tried that and it appears that I can only get the spells you gave to every cleric (cure light wounds slow poison etc...), can't choose a deity nor get the usual access to spell a cleric would have.
That is a good question. A question for you @Arunsun : did you install option 1 or 2 ( or some other option). I think you just reminded me of the best reason to install option 1: so you can select a deity after dualing to cleric.
I have to test, though.
I love those charts @ineth . do you mind if i incorporate them into the readme?
On looking over the weapons chart above, for any priest or champion of a deity, it would be a nice touch if they could use the deities weapon of choice. As a half-orc fan, the Gruumsh boys , for ex., aught to have spear as a choice. I'm not sure how your gnomes are shaping up but Urdlen would be a welcome choice, with at least a dagger as an option(in lieu of no freddy krueger like finger knives in the system that they prefer).
You may already have the weapon ideas in mind, just checking.
We were looking into something a while ago and then we (er I) forgot about it.
I have two minds about usability:
On the one hand, I want to revert our usability changes to baseline, and incorporate them into a different mod ( though i wouldn't do such a thing without releasing that other mod first). Acolytes would still have restricted armor use, but by using an existing flag ( though I'm not sure which one atm).
This is the part of me that feels like we may have overstepping the scope of this mod with the usability changes.
On the other hand, the other part of me wants to go further, and try something like what you suggest. I know of at least one trick that will work, that doesn't even involve changing usabilities...It was in the faiths of faerun mod that inspired this one. (Mordeus told me how to do)
Just a question, how is your mod supposed to handle Fighter/thief/mage=> cleric duals? Just tried that and it appears that I can only get the spells you gave to every cleric (cure light wounds slow poison etc...), can't choose a deity nor get the usual access to spell a cleric would have.
That is a good question. A question for you @Arunsun : did you install option 1 or 2 ( or some other option). I think you just reminded me of the best reason to install option 1: so you can select a deity after dualing to cleric.
I have to test, though.
Well, you gave me an early mod version and at that time only the installation using, IIRC, option 3 (which allows you to select components one by one) and installing everything worked, so I just did the same last time. That might be the cause.
Anyway, gonna make a fresh install with only this mod. Is your mod compatible with SCS btw?
My Ur-Priest finished the lidless eye quest and was offered a place in the church. Should this not happen given that churches hate Ur-Priests (and Ur-Priests hate churches)?
My Ur-Priest finished the lidless eye quest and was offered a place in the church. Should this not happen given that churches hate Ur-Priests (and Ur-Priests hate churches)?
That should totally not happen...it's a known issue.
I'm not sure at the moment what stronghold the ur priest should get, atm. Maybe they should create their own "church" on the bones of the eyeless cult...not sure
My Ur-Priest finished the lidless eye quest and was offered a place in the church. Should this not happen given that churches hate Ur-Priests (and Ur-Priests hate churches)?
That should totally not happen...it's a known issue.
I'm not sure at the moment what stronghold the ur priest should get, atm. Maybe they should create their own "church" on the bones of the eyeless cult...not sure
Well, if you are willing to do some quest-writing you could indeed do something off of that, since Ur-priest are usually manipulative and lead such groups of followers despite worshipping no god.
Are the Champions of Tempus and the Red Knight supposed to be absent from IWD:EE, because I can't seem to find them on the deity list? Also, the Fighter/Mystic multiclass can't pick any deity or subclass, which means they have no access to spells beyond a few universal ones.
Other than those concerns, I'd like to say that my overall impressions of this mod are excellent. I love what you've done with the sphere system. Clerics were kind of samey before, but now they feel as if they have a proper identity linked to their patron. The Fighter/Cleric of Tempus finally gives an option to play as a Berserker/Cleric multi-class without having to resort to EEKeeper. Next time I play BG:EE, I'm going to make Branwen one of these as she seems absolutely ideal for this kit.
My favourite combination though is one I stumbled upon by accident: a Darkcloak of Shar/Mage multiclass. This multiclass is basically as close as you can get to the "Shadow Adept" PRC from 3.5. This combination doesn't have as much firepower as the Monitor of Azuth, but it makes up for it in the sheer amount of trickery you can pull off with it. I've had a lot of fun with this combo, although the number of options available can be difficult to keep up with...but the same can be said for any cleric/mage honestly.
Anyway, to put it simply: well done on this mod and keep up the good work!
I love those charts @ineth . do you mind if i incorporate them into the readme?
Not at all.
I also extended them for the remaining archetypes now -- see the PDF attachments. Since I mostly relied on the info from chargen and "Choose Deity", and didn't get around to check actual in-game character stats (max proficiencies etc.) for most of them yet, there's still a bunch of info missing (indicated by question marks). And I probably made some mistakes, too.
Anyway, while going through the different kit options I continued cataloging issues I encountered...
Things that struck me as odd about the kits themselves: [spoiler]
The Hoodwinker of Baravar Cloakshadow and Mistwalker of Leira have the exact same sphere access (if their descriptions are to be believed). Intentional?
Minion of Moander and Doommaster of Beshaba: Ditto.
The alignment restrictions of the Stormbringer of Talos and Battleguard of Tempus vary depending on whether you choose them for a Cleric or a Figher/Cleric.
The Stormbringer of Talos and Battleguard of Tempus can only become proficient (1 pip) with weapons & weapon styles, even when you choose the kit for a Figher/Cleric rather than a Cleric.
[/spoiler] Potential bugs with the archetype/deity selection procedure (install method 1 on IWD:EE 1.4.0 with no other mods): [spoiler]
For Humans/Elves/Half-Elves, the Ranger kits can be selected right in the chargen menu. But for Dwarves/Halflings/Gnomes/Half-orcs, they are greyed out, and one must create an unkitted Ranger and then use the "Select Deity" innate. Why the discrepancy?
When selecting Elf and then Mystic, the Priest of Mystra kit is listed in that menu in addition to druid and mystic kits. Is that supposed to show up here? Possibly related: The Fire Mystic kit doesn't show up for Elves.
When selecting Elf and then Ranger, the Elven Archer kit appears twice in the kit selection menu, but only the first one is selectable.
The Fighter/Mage/Cleric multi-class is greyed out in the menu for all races, and there seems to be no other way to get it.
Trying to apply the Sworn of Cyric kit using the Select Deity innate, crashes the game. Tried it repeatedly with a Dwarf Cleric/Thief and a Halfling Cleric/Thief. Other C/T kits don't crash.
"NO VALID REPLIES OR LINKS" when opening the Deity selection dialog for:
Cleric/Mage - Chaotic Good - any race other than Gnome
Cleric/Mage - Chaotic Evil - any race
Fighter/Cleric - Lawful Evil - any race
The following kits seem to be referenced in the mod files, but I can't find them in the game: Beast Mystic, Nature Mystic, Light Mystic, Shadow Mystic, Fate Mystic, Cave Druid, Animist, Elementalist, Chaos Priest, Earth Dervish, Water Dervish, Air Dervish, Fire Dervish, Light Dervish, Shadow Dervish, Dweomerweaver of Mystra
The Ur-Priest appears in the "Cleric" chargen menu as an alternative to the Cleric & Acolyte, and also appears in the deity selection dialog for the Cleric. The only difference in the resulting characters seems to be, that the one created via dialog starts with 10 hitpoints, and the one created via the menu with only 8 (tested with "max hitpoints on level-up" game setting).
[/spoiler] Issues with the class/kit descriptions: [spoiler]Zealot(class description):
"Zealots are such devotees" -> remove "such"?
"they considering themselves" -> "they consider themselves" (or maybe "they see themselves" to avoid repetition of "consider")?
"frenzy ability" -> "Frenzy ability"
Doesn't specify which weapons they can wield, and what proficiencies they can choose.
Doesn't specify whether they can wear helmets.
FRENZY description doesn't specify how long they are winded afterwards.
Restrictions section says "Alignment: Cannot be evil", but there are evil Zealot deities (Gruumsh, Talos, Kossuth).
Cleric(class description):
"or any fighting style" -> "and any fighting style" might be more accurate.
Doesn't specify what shields they can equip.
Ur-Priest(class description):
Doesn't specify what weapon proficiencies they can choose.
Doesn't specify what armor/helmet/shields they can equip.
Doesn't specify hit die.
Acolyte(class description):
Doesn't specify what weapon proficiencies they can choose.
Doesn't specify what armor/helmet/shields they can equip.
Mystic and Druid(menu description):
Doesn't specify what armor/helmet/shields they can equip.
Doesn't specify hit die.
Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
(alternatively, let every kit specify those things individually)
Ranger and Scout(menu description):
Doesn't specify what weapon proficiencies they can choose.
Doesn't specify what armor/helmet/shields they can equip.
Doesn't specify hit die.
Doesn't specify at what level the divine spell-casting starts.
Doesn't specify Stealth scores.
Doesn't mention reputation and falling.
(alternatively, let every kit specify those things individually)
Halfling Slinger(kit description):
Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
Elven Archer(kit description):
Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
Archer(kit description):
Is referred to as "Elven Archer" in the description, even if you select it as a Human.
Forest Ranger(kit description):
Says "Alignment must be Good", but chargen also allows picking LN and TN.
"Charm animals and beats" -> what's that?
Mountain Ranger(kit description):
Says "Alignment must be Good", but chargen also allows picking LN and TN.
Jungle Ranger(kit description):
Says "Alignment must be Good", but chargen also allows picking LN and TN.
Darkcloak of Shar(kit description):
Says "May not dual-class to Fighter", but I can't dual-class this and other Acolyte kits at all.
Claims that both C/T and C/M can take this kit, but it only shows up in the deity selection dialog for Acolyte and C/M.
Monitor of Azuth(kit description):
Has no intro paragraph.
Doesn't mention multi-class access, but the kit shows up in the deity selection dialog for C/M.
Fastpaws of Baervan(kit description):
Doesn't specify the stats of the spirit animal ally.
Fighter/Druid(kit description):
Referred to as "Forest Druid" in the intro paragraph.
The Restrictions says they can't shapeshift, but the Abilities section lists multiple shapeshift forms. Which is it?
Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
Druid/Thief(kit description):
Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
Calls the kit "Druid/Thief", but once applied to a character they're labeled "Druid of Silvanus" on the character record screen.
Druid/Mage(kit description):
Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
Calls the kit "Druid/Thief", but once applied to a character they're labeled "Druid of Silvanus" on the character record screen.
Watcher of Helm(kit description):
"Fighter clerics" -> "Fighter/Clerics"? Although the kit does not actually show up in the deity selection dialog for F/C characters (only for pure-class Clerics)
"Helms eye" -> "Helm's Eye"?
Doomguide of Kelemvor(kit description):
Says they can be F/C or C/M, but the kit doesn't show up in the deity selection dialog for either of those (only for the pure-class Cleric).
Battleguard of Tempus(kit description):
Says "No alignment restrictions", but the kit doesn't show up for lawful F/C. In case of pure-class Clerics, it does show up for all alignments.
"she", "herself" even if the character is male -> Why not use <PRO_HESHE> etc.?
Mistwalker of Leira(kit description):
Doesn't mention multi-class access (the kit shows up for C/T in addition to pure-class Clerics).
Hoodwinker of Baravar Cloakshadow(kit description):
Doesn't mention multi-class access (the kit shows up for C/T in addition to pure-class Clerics).
Paingiver of Loviatar(kit description):
Doesn't mention multi-class access (the kit shows up for C/T in addition to pure-class Clerics).
Ur-Priest(kit description):
Says "Cannot be of a good or lawful alignment", but the kit shows up in the deity selection dialog for any non-good pure-class Cleric, including LN and LE.
Stormbringer of Talos(kit description):
Doesn't mention multi-class access (the kit shows up for F/C in addition to pure-class Clerics).
Painbearer of Ilmater(kit description):
The special ability is called "Endurance of Ilmater" once, and "SPIRIT OF ILMATER" once.
Glyphscribe of Deneir(kit description):
Says they can be C/M or C/T, but the kit doesn't show up for either of those (only for the single-class Acolyte).
Doommaster of Beshaba(kit description):
"penalty of -10 penalty" -> "penalty of -10"".
Says "any evil or chaotic neutral", but the kit shows up for True Neutral characters too, and doesn't show u for LE.
Minion of Moander(kit description):
Says they can be C/M or C/T, but the kit doesn't show up for either of those (only for the single-class Acolyte).
[/spoiler] The mod is shaping up really nicely btw, it'll be amazing once it's all done and polished!
Thanks, @ineth ! I've only seen these on my phone-- running to and fro-- but do you have those in excel? I may have to make modifications.
And thanks for the feedback!
@CrimsonBard Yeah, right now the red knight and gloryblood are disabled on iwdee. The issue is that in order to ensure that they do not fall, I have to give them the blackguard usability flag. But, unfortunately, that only works if they have an evil alignment...they'll be added when iwdee is updated ( and I'm glad you like it!)
This looks like a monumental task that seems to be coming along nicely. Do you have a coffee pot runnin full steam all the time? Perhaps the weapon usage WOULD be better handled in an additional mod as mentioned. Seems like tweaks ant. already gives the option to allow multi-class clerics the option to loosen weapon restrictions as in PnP in days of old. I am wondering if that option would work in the case of this mod (F&Ps) if using both mods or would one cancel the other out depending on install order?
do you have those in excel? I may have to make modifications.
I made them using Libre Office v5.3, because Microsoft Office doesn't have a Linux version... ODS file is attached.
In hindsight, it might have been better to use Google Sheets, then no-one would have to install any particular software to edit it.
Maybe I'll get around to recreating it using Google Sheets this weekend... For now, you can also tell me any changes you need made and I can send you updated PDFs.
do you have those in excel? I may have to make modifications.
I made them using Libre Office v5.3, because Microsoft Office doesn't have a Linux version... ODS file is attached.
In hindsight, it might have been better to use Google Sheets, then no-one would have to install any particular software to edit it.
Maybe I'll get around to recreating it using Google Sheets this weekend... For now, you can also tell me any changes you need made and I can send you updated PDFs.
This looks like a monumental task that seems to be coming along nicely. Do you have a coffee pot runnin full steam all the time? Perhaps the weapon usage WOULD be better handled in an additional mod as mentioned. Seems like tweaks ant. already gives the option to allow multi-class clerics the option to loosen weapon restrictions as in PnP in days of old. I am wondering if that option would work in the case of this mod (F&Ps) if using both mods or would one cancel the other out depending on install order?
Lol, I just break down every so often, and turn into a potato. @subtledoctor is really the energizer bunny of this group.
I haven't looked at the code for the anthology, but my guess is that it would merely expand weapon options already given in fnp. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of putting weapon/armor options in SoB, though that needs to involve the permission of above-mentioned energizer bunny.
One issue is that we have made the changes we have made for a number of reasons, some of them very good. At the same time, we (I) have forgotten many of these reasons, and any major changes can have strange consequences.
That said, my feeling is that overall, a mod like this, which should be installed somewhere in the middle of one's installation order, would work better with other mods if it refrained from messing with usability flags...
EDIT: Added all comments and corrections to a long 'issues' log.
One thing at a time, grammar. One thing at a time...
Comments
All done now. I have been through all the kits systematically, single- as well as multi-class. I have probably missed something, but the updated version of my post from earlier today contains all the errors and bugs I could find.
Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.
If you could fix the issue with the long piece of dialogue assigned in place of the actual name of the Beshaba Acolyte's special ability in the first round of updates, whenever that is, that'd be swell. I want to pair up with Xan and bring bad news and confusion to the Sword Coast.
Very helpful!
@ineth
Yeah, sorry. The readme is way out of date. I'm working on it...slowly. I'm knee deep in uni right now. I'm redoing the readme as i go through bugs (etc.) it'll get done
Yeah, in general, some strange things are afoot.
I just tested it and can confirm that every cleric/acolyte with MAJOR access to the Shadow sphere (Beshaba, Moander, Shar, Mask, Cyric), the Ur-Priest, and the Shadow Mystic get 1 free use of Shadowstep per day. Those with Minor access are unaffected.
Now, I don't know when the 1 Shadowstep/day ability kicks in - I did all the testing in the first area of Throne of Bhaal, so characters were between levels 16-19. Could be at level 1, could be later.
EDIT: Solved it. Created acolytes of Mask (who has Focus access to Shadow) and Shar (who has Major access) in BG1ee and BG2ee: SOA. The ability does NOT kick in at level 1, it kicks in whenever you get access to level 5 spells, which for Mask clerics is at level 7 (4th level spells) due to Focus access, and level 9 for those with Major access. I expect this to be the case for every kit with Major or Focus access to Shadow.
Also, shouldn't Leira's clerics get major access to the Shadow sphere? I mean Illusion, Shadow, in P&P and especially in AD&D 2nd ed, these are closely linked.
In my game, during character creation, I note that all references to MAGE have been replaced with ILLUSIONIST, and this applies to all races that can become mages of any kind, including multi-class combinations. Single-classed wizards, upon choosing ILLUSIONIST where it should have said MAGE, are presented with the usual list of wizardly specializations. The first choice, which used to be generalist MAGE, is now ILLUSIONIST (though the actual kit description is that of the generalist mage), followed by the specializations, including ILLUSIONIST (which has the illusionist’s kit description).
EDIT: Huh. I just started the game again and now this is NOT the case; everything is as it should be. This is super weird.
EDIT 2: Due to this inconsistency, I went back and created a Jungle Druid (George o'TheJungle) just to check if Shapechange had failed due to a strange bug. Nope, he still couldn't shapeshift.
Here's my weidu log for reference.
// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
~FAITHS_AND_POWERS/FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #102 // Select an installation method below: -> all the new kits and the sphere system, but kits in menus: 0.63b
Summoning the ancestral spirit and chain contingency spell chrash the game.
The animal horde spell summons 10+ creatures with random strings for names.
The special weapons, which are granted when in elemental form, don´t vanish after I am back in human form. Also my spell casting stays disabled (tested for air and water elemental). I can circumvent this with the werewolf shape change, which works fine, but the elemental weapons stay even in werewolf form.
Summoning elementals seems to work fine, even if the water elementals are dreadfully slow.
I tested on a clean bg2ee(v. 2.3)+fnp-install(v.0.63) .
Speaking of which, the chargen description for the Champion class says nothing about Detect Evil, Protection from Evil, and Lay on Hands, but the Blackguard kit lists the lack of those abilities as a kit restriction. Does that mean that other Champion kits do get them? Either way, one of those descriptions should be updated.
Also, the only vital information that the chargen screen doesn't provide, is the list of spells in each sphere. The files seem to be easy enough to read, but which of them will be applied if I install the mod on IWD:EE without Spell Revisions installed?
EDIT: Just recreated it from scratch. I am fairly confident I got all of it.
Or are you waiting for the 2.0 patch to properly support that game?
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By the way, I went through the Champions chargen menu with an "option 2" install on BG2:EE, and made a few tables which other users might find helpful while the readme is still being updated:
Champions and Zealots: Kit Restrictions
Question marks are things I wasn't sure of, because I didn't find a description of the"Zealots" baseclass.
Champions and Zealots: Kit Abilities
Champions and Zealots: Sphere Access
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I also made a list of issues I encountered with the descriptions in that menu (probably mostly redundant with the things @rrchristensen reported, I didn't check that too closely yet):
[spoiler]Champion of Azuth:
- Intro paragraph is unfinished.
- Referred to as "Hammer of Moradin" in the Restrictions section.
Champion of Bane:- "anybody that suggests that" -> better: "anybody who suggests that"
Champion of Helm:- Intro paragraph is unfinished.
- Typo: "weilded".
- Restrictions section mentions no falling at low REP, is this correct? All other champions/zealots with good-or-neutral alignment restriction, have it.
Champion of the Moradin:- Has no intro paragraph.
- Restrictions section doesn't mention race restriction. (Not that it matters much, but since it mentions it for the Zealots of Corellon and Gruumsh, it should probably here too.)
Champion of the Red Knight:- Has no intro paragraph.
- Referred to as "Everwatch Knight" in the Restrictions section.
- Restrictions section says no special smite, but Abilities section lists a special smite.
all Zealots::- Both Champions and Zealots are grouped under the "Champion" menu, so the base description for Zealots isn't shown anywhere. Does this mean that Zealots also get Smite, Turn Undead, and the same armor & weapon usability as Champions?n If not, could that menu be renamed to "Champion or Zealot", and show the base description for both?
- There is no empty line before the FRENZY/FURY description.
Zealot of Gruumsh:- "eye of Gruumsh" -> "Eye of Gruumsh".
Zealot of Talos:- "lightningbolt as an innate ability" - it is not clear whether he can only cast this during the frenzy, and how often.
Zealot of Garagos:- "drawn to frenzy of battle" -> "drawn to the frenzy of battle"?
- The special ability is called FURY (unlike for the other Zealots where it is called FRENZY), but in its description it is referred to as "Frenzy" twice.
Zealot of Ilmater:- "Companions take on" -> Easy to misunderstand and think it means his frenzy affects the other party members too.
- "and is able to" -> should be "and are able to"?
- Mixed use of "he" and "they" in the subsequent sentences makes them confusing to read.
Zealot of Corellon Larethian:- Typo "Corelion".
Zealot of Sune:- Intro paragraph seems unfinished.
Zealot of Mystra:- Has no intro paragraph.
Zealot of Eilistraee:- Has no intro paragraph.
[/spoiler]I'm not sure how your gnomes are shaping up but Urdlen would be a welcome choice, with at least a dagger as an option(in lieu of no freddy krueger like finger knives in the system that they prefer).
You may already have the weapon ideas in mind, just checking.
I have to test, though.
I love those charts @ineth . do you mind if i incorporate them into the readme?
...it shouldn't have. If it does, that's a bug. Will check. We were looking into something a while ago and then we (er I) forgot about it.
I have two minds about usability:
On the one hand, I want to revert our usability changes to baseline, and incorporate them into a different mod ( though i wouldn't do such a thing without releasing that other mod first). Acolytes would still have restricted armor use, but by using an existing flag ( though I'm not sure which one atm).
This is the part of me that feels like we may have overstepping the scope of this mod with the usability changes.
On the other hand, the other part of me wants to go further, and try something like what you suggest. I know of at least one trick that will work, that doesn't even involve changing usabilities...It was in the faiths of faerun mod that inspired this one. (Mordeus told me how to do)
I'll have to think about it
Well, you gave me an early mod version and at that time only the installation using, IIRC, option 3 (which allows you to select components one by one) and installing everything worked, so I just did the same last time. That might be the cause.
Anyway, gonna make a fresh install with only this mod. Is your mod compatible with SCS btw?
I'm not sure at the moment what stronghold the ur priest should get, atm. Maybe they should create their own "church" on the bones of the eyeless cult...not sure
Other than those concerns, I'd like to say that my overall impressions of this mod are excellent. I love what you've done with the sphere system. Clerics were kind of samey before, but now they feel as if they have a proper identity linked to their patron. The Fighter/Cleric of Tempus finally gives an option to play as a Berserker/Cleric multi-class without having to resort to EEKeeper. Next time I play BG:EE, I'm going to make Branwen one of these as she seems absolutely ideal for this kit.
My favourite combination though is one I stumbled upon by accident: a Darkcloak of Shar/Mage multiclass. This multiclass is basically as close as you can get to the "Shadow Adept" PRC from 3.5. This combination doesn't have as much firepower as the Monitor of Azuth, but it makes up for it in the sheer amount of trickery you can pull off with it. I've had a lot of fun with this combo, although the number of options available can be difficult to keep up with...but the same can be said for any cleric/mage honestly.
Anyway, to put it simply: well done on this mod and keep up the good work!
I also extended them for the remaining archetypes now -- see the PDF attachments. Since I mostly relied on the info from chargen and "Choose Deity", and didn't get around to check actual in-game character stats (max proficiencies etc.) for most of them yet, there's still a bunch of info missing (indicated by question marks). And I probably made some mistakes, too.
Anyway, while going through the different kit options I continued cataloging issues I encountered...
Things that struck me as odd about the kits themselves:
[spoiler]
- The Hoodwinker of Baravar Cloakshadow and Mistwalker of Leira have the exact same sphere access (if their descriptions are to be believed). Intentional?
- Minion of Moander and Doommaster of Beshaba: Ditto.
- The alignment restrictions of the Stormbringer of Talos and Battleguard of Tempus vary depending on whether you choose them for a Cleric or a Figher/Cleric.
- The Stormbringer of Talos and Battleguard of Tempus can only become proficient (1 pip) with weapons & weapon styles, even when you choose the kit for a Figher/Cleric rather than a Cleric.
[/spoiler]Potential bugs with the archetype/deity selection procedure (install method 1 on IWD:EE 1.4.0 with no other mods):
[spoiler]
- For Humans/Elves/Half-Elves, the Ranger kits can be selected right in the chargen menu. But for Dwarves/Halflings/Gnomes/Half-orcs, they are greyed out, and one must create an unkitted Ranger and then use the "Select Deity" innate. Why the discrepancy?
- When selecting Elf and then Mystic, the Priest of Mystra kit is listed in that menu in addition to druid and mystic kits. Is that supposed to show up here? Possibly related: The Fire Mystic kit doesn't show up for Elves.
- When selecting Elf and then Ranger, the Elven Archer kit appears twice in the kit selection menu, but only the first one is selectable.
- The Fighter/Mage/Cleric multi-class is greyed out in the menu for all races, and there seems to be no other way to get it.
- Trying to apply the Sworn of Cyric kit using the Select Deity innate, crashes the game. Tried it repeatedly with a Dwarf Cleric/Thief and a Halfling Cleric/Thief. Other C/T kits don't crash.
- "NO VALID REPLIES OR LINKS" when opening the Deity selection dialog for:
- Cleric/Mage - Chaotic Good - any race other than Gnome
- Cleric/Mage - Chaotic Evil - any race
- Fighter/Cleric - Lawful Evil - any race
- The following kits seem to be referenced in the mod files, but I can't find them in the game: Beast Mystic, Nature Mystic, Light Mystic, Shadow Mystic, Fate Mystic, Cave Druid, Animist, Elementalist, Chaos Priest, Earth Dervish, Water Dervish, Air Dervish, Fire Dervish, Light Dervish, Shadow Dervish, Dweomerweaver of Mystra
- The Ur-Priest appears in the "Cleric" chargen menu as an alternative to the Cleric & Acolyte, and also appears in the deity selection dialog for the Cleric. The only difference in the resulting characters seems to be, that the one created via dialog starts with 10 hitpoints, and the one created via the menu with only 8 (tested with "max hitpoints on level-up" game setting).
[/spoiler]Issues with the class/kit descriptions:
[spoiler]Zealot (class description):
- "Zealots are such devotees" -> remove "such"?
- "they considering themselves" -> "they consider themselves" (or maybe "they see themselves" to avoid repetition of "consider")?
- "frenzy ability" -> "Frenzy ability"
- Doesn't specify which weapons they can wield, and what proficiencies they can choose.
- Doesn't specify whether they can wear helmets.
- FRENZY description doesn't specify how long they are winded afterwards.
- Restrictions section says "Alignment: Cannot be evil", but there are evil Zealot deities (Gruumsh, Talos, Kossuth).
Cleric (class description):- "or any fighting style" -> "and any fighting style" might be more accurate.
- Doesn't specify what shields they can equip.
Ur-Priest (class description):- Doesn't specify what weapon proficiencies they can choose.
- Doesn't specify what armor/helmet/shields they can equip.
- Doesn't specify hit die.
Acolyte (class description):- Doesn't specify what weapon proficiencies they can choose.
- Doesn't specify what armor/helmet/shields they can equip.
Mystic and Druid (menu description):- Doesn't specify what armor/helmet/shields they can equip.
- Doesn't specify hit die.
- Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
- (alternatively, let every kit specify those things individually)
Ranger and Scout (menu description):- Doesn't specify what weapon proficiencies they can choose.
- Doesn't specify what armor/helmet/shields they can equip.
- Doesn't specify hit die.
- Doesn't specify at what level the divine spell-casting starts.
- Doesn't specify Stealth scores.
- Doesn't mention reputation and falling.
- (alternatively, let every kit specify those things individually)
Halfling Slinger (kit description):- Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
Elven Archer (kit description):- Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
Archer (kit description):- Is referred to as "Elven Archer" in the description, even if you select it as a Human.
Forest Ranger (kit description):- Says "Alignment must be Good", but chargen also allows picking LN and TN.
- "Charm animals and beats" -> what's that?
Mountain Ranger (kit description):- Says "Alignment must be Good", but chargen also allows picking LN and TN.
Jungle Ranger (kit description):- Says "Alignment must be Good", but chargen also allows picking LN and TN.
Darkcloak of Shar (kit description):- Says "May not dual-class to Fighter", but I can't dual-class this and other Acolyte kits at all.
- Claims that both C/T and C/M can take this kit, but it only shows up in the deity selection dialog for Acolyte and C/M.
Monitor of Azuth (kit description):- Has no intro paragraph.
- Doesn't mention multi-class access, but the kit shows up in the deity selection dialog for C/M.
Fastpaws of Baervan (kit description):- Doesn't specify the stats of the spirit animal ally.
Fighter/Druid (kit description):- Referred to as "Forest Druid" in the intro paragraph.
- The Restrictions says they can't shapeshift, but the Abilities section lists multiple shapeshift forms. Which is it?
- Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
Druid/Thief (kit description):- Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
- Calls the kit "Druid/Thief", but once applied to a character they're labeled "Druid of Silvanus" on the character record screen.
Druid/Mage (kit description):- Doesn't specify alignment restriction.
- Calls the kit "Druid/Thief", but once applied to a character they're labeled "Druid of Silvanus" on the character record screen.
Watcher of Helm (kit description):- "Fighter clerics" -> "Fighter/Clerics"? Although the kit does not actually show up in the deity selection dialog for F/C characters (only for pure-class Clerics)
- "Helms eye" -> "Helm's Eye"?
Doomguide of Kelemvor (kit description):- Says they can be F/C or C/M, but the kit doesn't show up in the deity selection dialog for either of those (only for the pure-class Cleric).
Battleguard of Tempus (kit description):- Says "No alignment restrictions", but the kit doesn't show up for lawful F/C. In case of pure-class Clerics, it does show up for all alignments.
- "she", "herself" even if the character is male -> Why not use <PRO_HESHE> etc.?
Mistwalker of Leira (kit description):- Doesn't mention multi-class access (the kit shows up for C/T in addition to pure-class Clerics).
Hoodwinker of Baravar Cloakshadow (kit description):- Doesn't mention multi-class access (the kit shows up for C/T in addition to pure-class Clerics).
Paingiver of Loviatar (kit description):- Doesn't mention multi-class access (the kit shows up for C/T in addition to pure-class Clerics).
Ur-Priest (kit description):- Says "Cannot be of a good or lawful alignment", but the kit shows up in the deity selection dialog for any non-good pure-class Cleric, including LN and LE.
Stormbringer of Talos (kit description):- Doesn't mention multi-class access (the kit shows up for F/C in addition to pure-class Clerics).
Painbearer of Ilmater (kit description):- The special ability is called "Endurance of Ilmater" once, and "SPIRIT OF ILMATER" once.
Glyphscribe of Deneir (kit description):- Says they can be C/M or C/T, but the kit doesn't show up for either of those (only for the single-class Acolyte).
Doommaster of Beshaba (kit description):- "penalty of -10 penalty" -> "penalty of -10"".
- Says "any evil or chaotic neutral", but the kit shows up for True Neutral characters too, and doesn't show u for LE.
Minion of Moander (kit description):- Says they can be C/M or C/T, but the kit doesn't show up for either of those (only for the single-class Acolyte).
[/spoiler]The mod is shaping up really nicely btw, it'll be amazing once it's all done and polished!
And thanks for the feedback!
@CrimsonBard
Yeah, right now the red knight and gloryblood are disabled on iwdee. The issue is that in order to ensure that they do not fall, I have to give them the blackguard usability flag. But, unfortunately, that only works if they have an evil alignment...they'll be added when iwdee is updated ( and I'm glad you like it!)
Perhaps the weapon usage WOULD be better handled in an additional mod as mentioned. Seems like tweaks ant. already gives the option to allow multi-class clerics the option to loosen weapon restrictions as in PnP in days of old. I am wondering if that option would work in the case of this mod (F&Ps) if using both mods or would one cancel the other out depending on install order?
ODS file is attached.
In hindsight, it might have been better to use Google Sheets, then no-one would have to install any particular software to edit it.
Maybe I'll get around to recreating it using Google Sheets this weekend... For now, you can also tell me any changes you need made and I can send you updated PDFs.
I haven't looked at the code for the anthology, but my guess is that it would merely expand weapon options already given in fnp. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of putting weapon/armor options in SoB, though that needs to involve the permission of above-mentioned energizer bunny.
One issue is that we have made the changes we have made for a number of reasons, some of them very good. At the same time, we (I) have forgotten many of these reasons, and any major changes can have strange consequences.
That said, my feeling is that overall, a mod like this, which should be installed somewhere in the middle of one's installation order, would work better with other mods if it refrained from messing with usability flags...
EDIT: Added all comments and corrections to a long 'issues' log.
One thing at a time, grammar. One thing at a time...