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"Maybe this time" [NO-RELOAD THREAD]: "The Tale of TEN THOUSAND Trials"

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  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 996
    I am but a dabbler in more aesthetically pleasing roguelikes and so for now I am still discovering ways to die. My most recent one was learning that I can break my neck falling off a ladder while carrying too much loot...

    Grond0AerakarWise_GrimwaldCrevsDaak
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,690
    What especially bothers me is that I'm not sure how I would have won this fight, with this party or any party, without the mod items I had in the Undergate run.

    Considering my 277 HP, -13 AC, poison-immune, 40% damage resistance tank died in two rounds, I do not believe there is any way to stay alive in this encounter without either being in jelly form (for immunity to piercing damage) or having mage-style defenses. But they can get past PFMW. They can dispel Stoneskin. And if you used a Spell Trigger or Chain Contingency to cast both PFMW and Stoneskin and SI: Abjuration, they also have at least two mages who use magic attacks to remove spell protections.

    And if you have a Barbarian or Dwarven Defender or Fighter/Druid with 80-90% damage resistance? That's not enough; they'll just kill you with Harm instead.

    Non-mages will simply die; the enemy's APR, THAC0, and backstab damage will be fatal to anyone who can't attain at least 90% immunity to piercing damage. But mages lose all of their buffs due to a script, and the enemy has the resources to break down anything short of a Chain Contingency+Spell Trigger setup followed by an aura-ignoring SI spell. You can try jelly form to block the piercing damage and Harm, but the enemy has slashing and crushing weapons, too.

    Has anyone else in this thread beaten the Chosen of Cyric encounter in Chapter 6? Is there any way for a character to survive the first few rounds without being an epic-level mage?

    ArctodusussnorwayJuliusBorisovCrevsDaak
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,435
    edited August 2017
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,690
    I appreciate it, @Wise_Grimwald.

    At least I managed to beat Breudayael and the Siege of Ust Natha without relying on mod items--although, granted, the Seducer kit can be pretty freaking powerful if you know how to exploit its abilities. I'll probably discuss some of the tricks I pulled in that run--it would be nice if other people could see the cool weird stuff that Seducers can do--but for now, I just feel tired.

    As fun as the solo Seducer run was, I don't think I have it in me to do it all over again. I've already gone through BG1 twice and SoD 1.5 times, respectively, and I'm not sure re-tracing my steps in SoA would be all that much fun.

    I've wanted to do another tetralogy no-reload run with some sort of extra restriction(s)--solo, LoB, no mod items, poverty, or something else--but once again, I'm at a loss for what that would look like. There's only one thing I know about my next run.

    The Chosen of Cyric are going to suffer for this.

    Wise_GrimwaldJuliusBorisov
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,372
    @semiticgod you mentioned the seducer bringing people into the party. Is the mechanic for that the same as normal recruiting of NPCs (I wondered whether that might be the reason rod of resurrection didn't work on other party members)?

    Aren't potions non-dispellable in your set-up? If so it should be straight-forward for a tank to add magic resistance on top of their weapon resistance.

    Do the enemies use death spell? If not then mordy sword / Ras could be a good option.

    You could try using protection from normal weapons and locking it in with spell protections. Another option would be boots of etherealness, though I guess that effect could probably be dispelled.

    A druid could combine shield of the archons with an earth elemental transformation.

    semiticgodJuliusBorisovCrevsDaak
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,690
    @Grond0: Seducers can bring almost any creature into the party, and they work just like normal NPCs. It's the only way I could allow the player to give the charmed critter new items and get them to use potions and such.

    Basically, you have to charm the target creature using Domination, the standard Seducer charm spell. Then, while not in combat, you have to use Seduction to charm them a second time, while Domination is still in effect (which can be hard, because the duration of Domination varies due to chance). If the critter fails its save and is half the Seducer's level or lower, then the Seduction spell overrides the critter's scripts, giving it a new script that causes it to join the party.

    If it doesn't have a valid character class, its class is set to fighter and it suffers a 50% XP penalty. Critters with the MINHP1 item are immune, as are golems and statues and swords, since they have no minds (also because Clay Golems and plot-immune critters would be game-breaking). The whole process can take a long time, but if you keep at it, your Seducer can eventually persuade the critter to join the party. It won't usually have its normal spells, but it will have its normal items and stats.

    You can get some very weird parties using Seduction, with very strange advantages and disadvantages. Played optimally, a solo Seducer is actually roughly as powerful as a solo mage, or even fighter/mage. But that requires pulling some really weird stunts.

    About your other questions:

    1. Potions are dispellable in my install because I created a new install without SR or IR.
    2. I never found Ras due to Item Randomizer, I'm guessing the two enemy mages would make short work of a Magical Sword, and the Chosen of Cyric probably wouldn't focus on either sword, since they can easily reveal any invisible party members and attack them instead.
    3. Protection from Normal Weapons won't work, either. They don't use only normal weapons; they have lots of extremely powerful magical weapons as well, which they drop after the fight.
    4. A druid or fighter/druid would probably have a good shot, if the cleric tries landing Harm before the mages remove Shield of the Archons. Unfortunately, there are basically zero druids and fighter/druids for a Seducer to add to the party, and I had been doing so well in the run that I didn't bother with many side quests, leaving the party far short of epic levels (my Seducer herself only hit 1.6 million XP by Chapter 6).

    JuliusBorisovCrevsDaak
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,869
    Ouch! Chosen of cyric nasty. There is a thief in the party that detects illusions via thief ability and you have tons of disablers coming your way. No way to hide very easily... One of the better tactical encounters though, but without knowing what comes towards you, deadly for a noreload.

    I am sure non-detection only works with thief hide in shadows, it does not block invisibility dispel when invisibility originates from spells or potions.

    You can talk your way out of the fight if you have the right stats.

    Wise_GrimwaldAerakarCrevsDaak
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,690
    Doesn't Non-Detection protect invisibility that comes from items and potions? I thought it worked with Potions of Invisibility, the Staff of the Magi, and the Sandthief Ring, because none of them were classified as "illusionary protection" spells.

  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,435
    edited August 2017

    Journal of Hrodwyn Halberdier the Gallant

    We found a ring of fire protection and Samuel nearby. We took him to the FAI and killed a few more ankheg.
    We rescued Annabelle by siccing some skeletons on the xvarts. The same skeletons defeated some assassins and the gnolls. We will use them on whatsoever eneemies we meet in the area.

    EDIT

    BTW I made a new discovery. If you use the skeletons against the xvarts without getting into line of sight with the cow's owner, the xvarts don't attack the cow so the quest becomes a lot easier. Of course if you are powerful enough it is straightforward anyway. However no rep increase in my new set-up. :( Rep still only 16 despite doing a lot of tasks that used to give a rep boost.

    Post edited by Wise_Grimwald on
    ErinneArctodusJuliusBorisovCrevsDaak
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,869

    Doesn't Non-Detection protect invisibility that comes from items and potions? I thought it worked with Potions of Invisibility, the Staff of the Magi, and the Sandthief Ring, because none of them were classified as "illusionary protection" spells.

    I am quite sure it doesn't. Maybe it needs a small test or something.

    Wise_GrimwaldCrevsDaak
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,372
    Non-detection does not protect invisibility from items generally, but the Staff of the Magi is an exception - that's a feature (or bug depending on your perspective) that goes back to the original game. Non-detection (cloak not spell), also locks in stealth - and that might be worth thinking about for your Chosen of Cyric encounter @semiticgod. Quite apart from the havoc a shadowdancer could cause I think you've been fond of using stealth with blinded characters in the past.

    Wise_GrimwaldsemiticgodJuliusBorisovCrevsDaak
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