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[MOD] -Scales of Balance- a post-hac tweak mod

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  • ArizaelArizael Member Posts: 263
    Shame, but perhaps it is for the best. Simply prohibiting certain weapons from off hand slot does not seem that harsh, i mean i cant realy imagine somebody dual wielding flails. Not sure about longswords thought, personaly I would support it, but if you prohibit longsword, you should also prohibit scimitar, which could trigger certain drow lobby groups.

    Another idea about one and half weapons (bastard sword and katana) - these weapons were in fact so heavy, that while you could wield them with shield or dagger, it was more clunky than other weapons (which were generaly designed to be held with shield). So I would propose to give them simple on equip thac0 penalty. This penalty would only go away if you wielded such a weapon without off hand or shield (similary to the extra attack in fencing). This would make them more balanced (as they already have better damage dice) and put more variety into the weapon selection.

    By the way do you still intent to nerf ranged weapons ? I never really understood that extra APR on bows, so i guess no extra APR on long bow and 1/2 half APR on short bow would solve that issue nicely.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2017
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  • Love it!
  • DjinnDjinn Member Posts: 76
    Brilliant!!
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Why is Longsword considered a large weapon? It can be wielded in fencing style with no penalties. Why would also holding a dagger in the offhand (which wasn't doing anything before) cause a penalty?
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2017
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  • ArizaelArizael Member Posts: 263
    Great job, as always.

    Only questions are,
    - does the long sword belong in the 'large weapons' group?
    - does the scimitar belong in the 'medium weapons' group?

    Well the problem here is that long sword is very broad term, that can emphasize anything from roman or viking sword, up to late 14th century large knight swords, with many broadswords and other variants in the middle. So putting long swords into either category is quaranteed to puzzle people, depending on whether they imagine Witcher or Gladiator when it comes up to the term of long sword.

    Since BG has dedicated bastard swords and for sanity´s sake, i would prefer to assume that we are talking about standard one-handed infantry swords. These were designed to work with very large shields and thus could be probably dual-wielded effectively, aka medium category.

    However when compared to these longswords, scimitars are sctrictly worse dual-wield candidates. They are heavier, plus they are curved. While the curve greatly boosted one sided cutting power (especially when used from horseback), it came at the expense of stabbing and backwards slashing, which is precisely what you need when dual-wielding. So i would either make scimitars heavy category, or for balance reasons keep them same as long swords in medium category (still, remember belm ;) ).
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I would argue that both Scimitars and Longswords belong in the "Medium" category.
  • ArizaelArizael Member Posts: 263
    edited December 2017


    f specialized in two-handed weapon style:
    - 2.5 APR, thac0 5, +2 damage bonus, crit on 18+

    I would buff the damage. Make that +3-4 damage bonus?


    And for low-level warriors, well, they are noobs who shouldn't try difficult things like dual-wielding large weapons. This technique is for pros!

    Actualy more like for heroic blademasters with natural ambidexterity. :p


    Stepping out of the game for a moment:

    1) Balance: dual-wielding is still monstrously powerful, and I just buffed it by making it only need 2 proficiency points. You can get crazy good passive bonuses from off-hand weapons (Belm, Crom Faeyr) so that needs a bit of a sacrifice.

    Well in here great balance is the -1str component. Other options include putting the most offending weapons strictly into heavy category. Or going back to 3 stars ? Perhaps only available to ranger or kensai.


    2) Technical limitations: this is just about the best I can do. I can't make the thac0 penalty with two bastard swords any different from the thac0 penalty with a bastard sword and dagger. This is really stretching the possibilities of item equipping effects and proficiencies to their limits. There's a slight chance I could finesse this with a different stat (or three)... but it would add a whole new layer of complexity to every "while equipped" check, and might break a bunch of other stuff. I'll look into it, but that will take time. This is what I have right now.

    So it is still not possible to add fixed on equip thac0 penalty to i.e. katana and than apply thac0 bonus that kicks in with fencing apr bonus if you wield katana ?
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  • @subtledoctor @Grammarsalad

    Bug report: Something very weird going on with weapon proficiencies. I think this might be an interaction between FnP and SoB. I'll put my report here in this thread, but it might belong in the FnP thread (?).

    Situation: I've settled on a half-elf Mystic Warrior of the Light persuasion. I rolled a 98 (!!! Best roll in twenty years!), and went to assign weapon proficiencies.

    Problem: I am limited to one pip in a number of weapon proficiencies while in others I can assign two pips, seemingly chosen at random, though perhaps the weapon category collapse from SoB plays a role here, or there's a thing with that and CDTweaks. As a multi-class warrior he's supposed to be able to put two pips in everything. I screenshotted everything in case you want documentation, but here's a breakdown that doesn't require 222 MB of images.

    Two pips:


    Scimitar/katana
    Dagger/dart
    Club/mace
    Spear/halberd
    Quarterstaff
    Fencing, two-handed, and dual-wielding styles
    (the kit is prohibited from taking the sword-and-board style at all)

    One pip:

    Longsword
    Short sword/ninja-to
    Axe
    Greatswords
    Warhammer
    Flail
    Crossbow
    Bows
    Sling

    Of course, I can fix this manually in EEKeeper, but it's strange behaviour to say the least.


    In five minutes my guy will be off to save the world with (eventually) Jaheira, Minsc, Dynaheir, Xan, and Alora. :smiley:


    WEIDU:

    // Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
    // The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
    // ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
    ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #0 // Slime Quest: v15
    ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #1 // Beregost Family Quest: v15
    ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #2 // Installing the Babysitting Quest, including the Carnival Encounter...: v15
    ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #3 // Nashkel Monster Quest: v15
    ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #4 // Fallen Paladin Quest: v15
    ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #5 // Undying Love Quest: v15
    ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #6 // Orcish Lover Encounter: v15
    ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #7 // Unexpected Help Quest: v15
    ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #8 // "Many Little Paws": v15
    ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #9 // Drunk near Beregost Temple: v15
    ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #10 // A Warm Place for Noober: v15
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #0 // The BG1 NPC Project: Required Modifications: v23
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #1 // The BG1 NPC Project: Banters, Quests, and Interjections: v23
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #16 // The BG1 NPC Project: NPCs can be sent to wait in an inn: v23
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #18 // The BG1 NPC Project: Alora's Starting Location -> Alora Starts in Gullykin: v23
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #20 // The BG1 NPC Project: Eldoth's Starting Location -> Eldoth Starts on the Coast Way: v23
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #22 // The BG1 NPC Project: Quayle's Starting Location -> Quayle Starts at the Nashkel Carnival: v23
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #24 // The BG1 NPC Project: Tiax's Starting Location -> Tiax Starts in Beregost: v23
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #26 // BGEE Banter Timing Tweak: v23
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #28 // The BG1 NPC Project: Bardic Reputation Adjustment: v23
    ~BG1NPC/BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #29 // The BG1 NPC Project: Cloakwood areas availability in Chapter One -> Open Cloakwood Lodge (first Cloakwood area only): v23
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #0 // Ice Island Level Two Restoration: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #1 // The Mysterious Vial: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #10 // Place Entar Silvershield in His Home: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #11 // Scar and the Sashenstar's Daughter: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #12 // Quoningar, the Cleric: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #13 // Shilo Chen and the Ogre-Magi: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #14 // Edie, the Merchant League Applicant: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #16 // Creature Corrections: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #17 // Creature Restorations: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #18 // Creature Name Restorations: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #19 // Minor Dialogue Restorations: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #21 // Store, Tavern and Inn Fixes and Restorations: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #22 // Item Corrections and Restorations: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #28 // Prism and the Emeralds Tweak: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #29 // Duke Eltan in the Harbor Master's Building: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #30 // Nim Furlwing Encounter: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #32 // Svlast, the Fallen Paladin Encounter: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #33 // Mal-Kalen, the Ulcaster Ghost: v15.1
    ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #34 // Chapter 6 Dialogue Restorations: v15.1
    ~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #7 // Additional equipment for Thieves and Bards: v4.91
    ~MSFM/MSFM.TP2~ #0 #1 // Add Wizard's Staff -> Add Wizard's Staff with 14 new color sets: v1.55
    ~MSFM/MSFM.TP2~ #0 #10 // Add circlets: v1.55
    ~MSFM/MSFM.TP2~ #0 #12 // Add Wizard's Hat: v1.55
    ~MSFM/MSFM.TP2~ #0 #15 // Add robe tweaks -> Add robes with original colorsets: v1.55
    ~MSFM/MSFM.TP2~ #0 #18 // Add Customizable Familiars: v1.55
    ~MSFM/MSFM.TP2~ #0 #19 // Add Custom Names for Familiar (this option will override preset names) -> Add One Name: v1.55
    ~MSFM/MSFM.TP2~ #0 #22 // Add Familiars for NPC Mages: v1.55
    ~MSFM/MSFM.TP2~ #0 #23 // Add Resized Skull Animation: v1.55
    ~MSFM/MSFM.TP2~ #0 #24 // Add More scrolls of Find Familiar in shops: v1.55
    ~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Spell Revisions: v4 Beta 15
    ~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #30 // Dispel Magic Fix: v4 Beta 15
    ~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #55 // Spell Deflection blocks AoE spells: v4 Beta 15
    ~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #60 // Update Spellbooks of Joinable NPCs: v4 Beta 15
    ~A7-CHAOSSORCERER/SETUP-A7-CHAOSSORCERER.TP2~ #0 #0 // "Chaos Sorcerer" kit: 2.3
    ~A7-CHAOSSORCERER/SETUP-A7-CHAOSSORCERER.TP2~ #0 #30 // Add "Primordial Artifacts": 2.3
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #10 // Spell Tweaks: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #0 // Revised Specialists: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #1 // Revised Dragon Disciples: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #4 // Sorcerer: Sylvan Disciple: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #5 // Sorcerer: Revenant Disciple: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #6 // Sorcerer: Amorphous Disciple: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #9 // Arcane Crafting: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #11 // Metamagic: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #12 // Cantrips -> Innate Cantrips: 0.7
    ~TOMEANDBLOOD/SETUP-TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ #0 #14 // Ability Score Bonuses: 0.7
    ~A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION/SETUP-A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION.TP2~ #0 #0 // Golem Construction Ability for Spellcasters: 5.3
    ~A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION/SETUP-A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION.TP2~ #0 #20 // Golems for enemy spellcasters: 5.3
    ~A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION/SETUP-A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION.TP2~ #0 #25 // Greater variety of enemy golem types: 5.3
    ~A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION/SETUP-A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION.TP2~ #0 #35 // Make golems vulnerable to specific spell effects: 5.3
    ~A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION/SETUP-A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION.TP2~ #0 #40 // Reduce weapon immunities and resistances for constructed golems: 5.3
    ~A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION/SETUP-A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION.TP2~ #0 #45 // Identify all mod items: 5.3
    ~A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION/SETUP-A7-GOLEMCONSTRUCTION.TP2~ #0 #50 // Add "Teleport" ability to golems: 5.3
    ~FAITHS_AND_POWERS/FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #102 // Select an installation method below: -> all the new kits and the sphere system: 0.74r
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #200 // Feat System: 3.6.7
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #210 // Bard Class Overhaul: 3.6.7
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #230 // Revised Archery: 3.6.7
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #250 // Revised Berserker and Rage: 3.6.7
    ~MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2~ #0 #410 // Add the Sniper (thief kit): 3.6.7
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #60 // Weapon Animation Tweaks: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #110 // Icon Improvements: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #130 // Force All Dialogue to Pause Game: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #140 // Fix Boo's Squeak: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #182 // Unique Containers -> Unique icons and names: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2010 // Separate Resist Fire/Cold Icon into Separate Icons (Angel): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1010 // More Interjections: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1060 // Breakable Iron Nonmagical Shields, Helms, and Armor: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1080 // Add Bags of Holding: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1090 // Exotic Item Pack: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1100 // Reveal City Maps When Entering Area: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1120 // Stores Sell Higher Stacks of Items: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2020 // Two-Handed Bastard Swords: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2030 // Two-Handed Katanas: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2035 // Two-Handed Axes: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2060 // Weapon Styles for All: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2140 // Expanded Dual-Class Options: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2160 // Alter Weapon Proficiency System -> Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2210 // Change Grandmastery Bonuses -> True Grandmastery (Baldurdash): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2410 // Druids Use 3E Alignment Restrictions: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2500 // Exceptional Strength Weight Limit Changes: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2520 // Allow Mages to Use Bucklers and Thieves to Use Small Shields (Angel): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2530 // Lightning Bolts Don't Bounce (Angel): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2999 // Max HP at Level One: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3001 // Higher HP on Level Up -> NWN Style: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3020 // Identify All Items: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3060 // Remove "You Must Gather Your Party..." Sound (Weimer): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3070 // Change Effect of Reputation on Store Prices -> Low Reputation Store Discount (Sabre): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3081 // Increase Ammo Stack Size -> Stacks of 40: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3121 // Happy Patch (Party NPCs do not complain about reputation) -> NPCs Can Be Angry About Reputation but Never Leave (Salk): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3123 // NPCs Don't Fight: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3125 // Neutral Characters Make Happy Comments at Mid-Range Reputation: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3190 // Rest Anywhere (Japheth): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3200 // Sellable Items (Icelus): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3205 // Stores Purchase All Item Types: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3220 // Sensible Entrance Points: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3230 // Taerom Makes Additional Ankheg Armor (Icendoan/grogerson): v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3290 // Personalize automatic save names -> Use scheme: 000000000-Protagonist-Save-Name: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4000 // Adjust Evil joinable NPC reaction rolls: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4020 // ToB-Style NPCs: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4061 // Consistent Stats: Minsc -> Use BG2 Values: v4
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #102 // IWO - Functional Weapon Tweaks: v5.7.5
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #103 // IWO - Light/Heavy Weapon Distinctions: v5.7.5
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #121 // WPO - Weapon Category Collapse: v5.7.5
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #124 // WPO - Fighting Style Changes: v5.7.5
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #125 // WPO - APR on Spec: v5.7.5
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #160 // STO - Saving Throw Overhaul: v5.7.5
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #200 // SBO - Stat Bonus Overhaul: v5.7.5
    ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE/SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ #0 #204 // SBO - Enable Concentration Checks: v5.7.5
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #1000 // Initialise mod (all other components require this): v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #2010 // More consistent Breach spell (always affects liches and rakshasas; doesn't penetrate Spell Turning): v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #2020 // Antimagic attacks penetrate improved invisibility: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #2110 // Reduce the power of Inquisitors' Dispel Magic -> Inquisitors dispel at 1.5 x their level (not twice their level): v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #3030 // Re-introduce potions of extra-healing: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4000 // Faster Bears: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4010 // Grant large, flying, non-solid or similar creatures protection from Web and Entangle: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4020 // More realistic wolves and wild dogs: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4040 // Make party members less likely to die irreversibly: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4051 // Decrease the rate at which reputation improves -> Reputation increases at about 1/2 the normal rate: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4110 // Allow NPC pairs to separate: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4130 // Move NPCs to more convenient locations: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4140 // Allow Yeslick to use axes: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #4146 // Skip the Candlekeep tutorial sections -> Skip Candlekeep altogether (warning: breaks the 4th wall!): v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5000 // Ease-of-use party AI: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5010 // Move Boo into Minsc's pack: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5020 // Remove the blur graphic effect from the Cloak of Displacement: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5050 // Stackable ankheg shells, winterwolf pelts and wyvern heads: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5060 // Ensure Shar-Teel doesn't die in the original challenge: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components): v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6000 // Smarter general AI: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Better calls for help: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6031 // Smarter Mages -> Mages only cast short-duration spells instantly at start of combat if they are created in sight of the PC: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6040 // Smarter Priests -> Priests cast some short-duration spells instantly at start of combat, to simulate pre-battle casting: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6103 // Potions for NPCs -> Two thirds of the potions dropped by slain enemies break and are lost: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6300 // Smarter sirines and dryads: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6310 // Slightly harder carrion crawlers: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6320 // Smarter basilisks: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7000 // Improved doppelgangers: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7010 // Tougher Black Talons and Iron Throne guards: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7020 // Improved deployment for parties of assassins: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7030 // Dark Side-based kobold upgrade: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7040 // Relocated bounty hunters: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7050 // Improved Ulcaster: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7060 // Improved Balduran's Isle: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7090 // Improved Cloakwood Druids: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7100 // Improved Bassilus: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7110 // Improved Drasus party: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7130 // Improved Red Wizards: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7200 // Tougher chapter-two end battle: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7210 // Tougher chapter-three end battle: v30 BWP Fix
    ~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7900 // Improved minor encounters: v30 BWP Fix
    ~COLORFUL_SPECIALIST_SLOTS/COLORFUL_SPECIALIST_SLOTS.TP2~ #0 #3 // Specialist Slots -> Specialist Mages must use 2 spell slots for Specialist School Spells, excluding empty spell levels: 1.0
    ~COLORFUL_SPECIALIST_SLOTS/COLORFUL_SPECIALIST_SLOTS.TP2~ #0 #4 // Edwin Amulet extra spells must also be Conjuration spells: 1.0
    ~COLORFUL_SPECIALIST_SLOTS/COLORFUL_SPECIALIST_SLOTS.TP2~ #0 #5 // Equipment that doubles spell slots also doubles forced specialist slots: 1.0
    ~NPC_EE/NPC_EE.TP2~ #0 #161 // Choose a class for Minsc -> Make Minsc a fighter: v2.8
    ~NPC_EE/NPC_EE.TP2~ #0 #261 // Choose a class for Safana -> Make Safana a fighter/thief: v2.8
    ~NPC_EE/NPC_EE.TP2~ #0 #464 // Choose a class for Alora -> Make Alora a cleric/thief: v2.8
    ~NPC_EE/NPC_EE.TP2~ #0 #2000 // NPC kit choices: v2.8
    ~NPC_EE/NPC_EE.TP2~ #0 #3000 // multiclass kit choice: v2.8
    ~EEUITWEAKS/EEUITWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1000 // Mods Options: 2.6
    ~EEUITWEAKS/EEUITWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2000 // Transparent Sidebars: 2.6
    ~EEUITWEAKS/EEUITWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2010 // Feedback Message Box Re-sizers -> Feedback Message Box Buttons Hack: 2.6
    ~EEUITWEAKS/EEUITWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2030 // Adul's Better Quick Loot: 2.6
    ~EEUITWEAKS/EEUITWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2070 // Dee's Permanent Thieving Button: 2.6
    ~EEUITWEAKS/EEUITWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2080 // elminster's Easier Area Cheats: 2.6
    ~HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS/SETUP-HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS.TP2~ #0 #1 // Install Hidden Gameplay Options -> Selected options: 1.3
    ~HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS/SETUP-HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS.TP2~ #0 #10 // Add in-game option "Enable Debug Mode": 1.3
    ~HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS/SETUP-HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS.TP2~ #0 #13 // Add in-game option "Hotkeys On Tooltips": 1.3
    ~HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS/SETUP-HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS.TP2~ #0 #14 // Add in-game option "Show trigger icons on tab": 1.3
    ~HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS/SETUP-HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS.TP2~ #0 #18 // Add in-game option "Critical Hit Screen Shake": 1.3
    ~HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS/SETUP-HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS.TP2~ #0 #19 // Add in-game option "Show extra combat info": 1.3
    ~HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS/SETUP-HIDDENGAMEPLAYOPTIONS.TP2~ #0 #24 // Add in-game option "Enable Fog": 1.3



  • LamiarLamiar Member Posts: 136

    @subtledoctor @Grammarsalad

    Problem: I am limited to one pip in a number of weapon proficiencies while in others I can assign two pips, seemingly chosen at random, though perhaps the weapon category collapse from SoB plays a role here, or there's a thing with that and CDTweaks. As a multi-class warrior he's supposed to be able to put two pips in everything. I screenshotted everything in case you want documentation, but here's a breakdown that doesn't require 222 MB of images.

    Read SoB's read me! You should be able put only one pip at level 1. Warrior-types with some INT gain additional innate abilities which allow become proficient in additional weapons just at start. And one of them (INT14) allow you immediately become specialized in one weapon. Later in game you will gain additional pips on level ups and you will be able to spent in as usual (with some restrictions). Note, that 2 pips in "Fencing" style gives .5APR for example, which is more powerful option (because allow you perform better with any 1-pip weapon).

    I'm think that you should stick with only one mod which alter weapon proficiency system. At least this components from cdtweaks are questionable (mostly 2160):

    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2060 // Weapon Styles for All: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2160 // Alter Weapon Proficiency System -> Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2210 // Change Grandmastery Bonuses -> True Grandmastery (Baldurdash): v4
    2060 probably will work, but actually i'm think it should not take effect, because SoB apply own weapon style restrictions.

    2210 - i'm prefer does not touch this (and not sure if they doesn't conflict with SoB): with SoB's stat bonus overhaul which you also install you already gain some powers early, like melee thac0 bonus from DEX, or Luck from CHA.

    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2999 // Max HP at Level One: v4
    ~CDTWEAKS/SETUP-CDTWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3001 // Higher HP on Level Up -> NWN Style: v4
    Game has perfect option to max hp on level up, or SoB has perfect module "Hit Dice Overhaul" - try it. Enable debug option, create character and play around. You should find that caster-like characters with only 12-13 CON actually benefit a lot without cheaty "Max HP" option, and classic 16 CON works well too. Also new natural regen on 19 CON which is... may be nice.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2017
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    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • Contemplative_HamsterContemplative_Hamster Member Posts: 844
    edited December 2017
    ... AAAND upon restarting the game, I cannot reproduce the error. I'm seeing this a lot recently where restarting the game or reinstalling the whole shebang suddenly removes strange bugs. Huh. Cheers for your analysis, @subtledoctor. I was concerned this was a consistent bug that others might encounter.
  • LamiarLamiar Member Posts: 136
    @subtledoctor definitely, i'm had harried a bit. :(

    PS: You still doesn't answer. Did you seen that Fighter/Mage doesn't receive bonus mage spells? Their effects table much differs from other classes (lot of entries from resource D5_NOINT), but i'm quickly ends that i'm doesn't understand from start how it is work (in general, while details are about clear), so really can't fix/nor diagnose.
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  • LamiarLamiar Member Posts: 136
    edited December 2017
    @subtledoctor With Tome&Blood's "Ability Score Bonuses" i'm doesn't see D5_NOINT... and looks like T&B system work. But this component not about bonuses, but about nerfing spell slots from mages even with full INT they will have only 3 slots / level, e.g. even not 4/5 like original, and definitely not like as with SoB's bonus spells. So it is not fair replacement. :) Also, T&B Ability Score Bonuses tries to do something with caster level based on charisma.

    UPD: Ah, i'm see what it's do. It takes back one spell slot from 2DA tables, in exchange to get +2 spells/slot from stat. Generally not bad... but bonus table still should be considered as nerf, since 19INT char receive 2/2/2/1 bonuses and no bonuses for higher level spells (e.g. level 5 and up) AND reduce number of this spell slots.

    UPD: But this is still doesn't answers how this would work with SBO on other classes. :)

    UPD: And T&B doesn't apply bonuses for F/M. Ouch. :)

    PS: Basically in SoB's case i'm think it is some bug, because never seen that this was intended / described.
    For T&B way... i'm dislike it. I'm doesn't see big sense in making build around INT just because Mage receive low-level spell bonuses especially while exist some number of items which gives 1-4 bonus spells. And i'm doesn't see sense in nerfing F/M because it is already "nerfed" as mage - their slow progression doesnt allow he be better than pure mage in terms of spellcasting.
    Post edited by Lamiar on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2017
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  • Just add it. F/Ms are overpowered to begin with, but in a single-player game, who cares? If anyone finds that THIS is the component that breaks the camel's back and makes the mod overpowered, they can fiddle with the game's difficulty settings instead or install SCS.
  • LamiarLamiar Member Posts: 136

    Lamiar said:

    Fighter/Mage doesn't receive bonus mage spells [for high INT]?

    So, I looked at the mod files and it appears that this is intentional - the d5_NOINT effect preventing the bonus spells specifically targets sorcerers and fighter/mages.

    I don't remember why I did that, but I definitely did it intentionally. So the question is, should we trust 2016 Subtledoctor? Or should we change this and allow F/Ms to get this benefit?

    I'm going to upload a new version of the mod in a few hours so there is some time to make this decision. The change itself is quite easy, will only take 5 minutes. So anyone reading this, let me know what you think.
    I'm personally okay to go with F/M without bonus spell slots. Just this thing is not documented. When i'm play in previous year(s) - i'm pretty sure that F/M got bonus spells, so this is more late change which i'm miss. On other side, does F/M really so strong... in comparison to already tweaked/buffed Thief/Mage at higher levels? On other side, if F/M doesn't get bonus spells from INT - there is almost no sense go with INT more than 14 (surely if we trying stay in mid 80 build). In that case i'm even not sure that INT worth points to buy this weapon profs/specializations - it is just better put points into STR instead, and you will get benefits with any weapon. :) So...

    Just add it. F/Ms are overpowered to begin with, but in a single-player game, who cares? If anyone finds that THIS is the component that breaks the camel's back and makes the mod overpowered, they can fiddle with the game's difficulty settings instead or install SCS.

    Looks like many peoples already go on insane + SCS. :) And from my feelings - at low levels (5), F/M is good, but not overpowered party member. And in party alongside with Fighter/Druid and Ranger/Cleric - last two clearly wins. Surely once F/M collect best spells - he will shine, while Ranger/Cleric probably never will. On another side, ability of diviners to rely on almost any armor (with DR ~30%) + Armor of Faith makes them good physical tanks, while F/M always require some tricks, some special armor (with acceptable casting speed penalty)...

    So, as for me - both should work, with or without bonus spells.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2017
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  • LamiarLamiar Member Posts: 136

    I could pretty easily make an .ini setting to make it optional, but... meh...

    Lamiar said:

    if F/M doesn't get bonus spells from INT - there is almost no sense go with INT more than 14 (surely if we trying stay in mid 80 build). In that case i'm even not sure that INT worth points to buy this weapon profs/specializations - it is just better put points into STR instead, and you will get benefits with any weapon.

    Well, if you play with Item Revisions and there are no +INT potions to let you learn unlimited spells... :hushed:
    There is very few items which raise INT... One Red Potion in BG1 with 25INT, second in BG2. :) And minor/major trinkets with +1INT. So i'm think it is should be possible to get +2/+3 INT in BG2 from items, mostly by completing Mage stronghold and making this dagger and robe (both gives +1 INT with IR). Even +2/+3 boost can move character on another caster level (e.g. learn next spell level).

    But anyway 10 INT char = ability to learn up to 5 level spells, 7 spells/level. E.g. there is something what makes character more fighter than mage, with ability to cast some buffs / some damage. Surely it is better to have access to all spell levels and unlimited spell numbers.

    If someone play with one PC - then 18 INT is a must... Who plan take Edwin - can be more freed. And like me who take custom party, also can don't worry too much.

    --

    Well, if you want some rebalancing here, then probably SoB should do similar thing to Tome and Blood by reducing one spell from progressions tables (MXSPLWIZ), to force players raise INT to return to normal levels. But unlike ToB, i'm think, that bonuses should return all spells back at about 16/17 INT (e.g. char with 16/17 INT will have same number of spells like in unmodded game), and after this apply real bonuses (may be starting from first level or combining)... mostly to make raising stats bit more rewardable. Why about 16/17 INT? Just because only Edwin has 18 INT (and overpowered amulet with +2 spells for each level...), Imoen, Dynaheir, Quayle, Xan, Xzar - 17 - but in BG1 there is no has difference, Aerie, Jan = 16 INT (others looks like has 17 or 19). I'm remember playing with Aerie and Jan was not so easy in BG2 - you face enemy and just still has no access to next level... just because they are multiclassed. And while IR also makes spell learning for them harder, then nerfing available spell slots for them i'm think is not are great idea. This is especially important for multiclasses (like Aerie) who already has small number of slots compared to pure mages (e.g. 2 level 9 spells on mage level 20). May be it is okay to really nerf 8-9 levels by one slot, but not sure.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2017
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  • LamiarLamiar Member Posts: 136
    @subtledoctor i'm will go on new EET install... which will take hours. :) I'm forced to EET because only EET some items and spell descriptions (more like summon names) are correct.

    But, can you say something why BWS mark SoB's proficiency overhaul incompatible with EET/EET_end and some other big mods (dark horizons i'm think). I'm personally doesn't see nothing wrong with it. EET_end makes some changes into NPC's at last step, so may be this, but if it is only one issue, then it is easily can be EEKeeped.

    PS: Allowing Cleric/Mage to specialize in two-handed weapons and/or allow gain proficiency in crossbows is too cheaty? :)
  • LamiarLamiar Member Posts: 136
    @subtledoctor BTW, about "SBO - Full Strength for 2-Hand Weapons Only". Initially i'm started with it, but now decided to disable it. Main reason is that i'm on low-strength party, and i'm want use Strength-related spells which set strength to around 18/50. This gives interesting results: with this buff characters even with 10 STR can benefit something from +STR IR items. But, with this component especially for dual-wielders we cast spell, and... this results in 16STR - e.g. benefits too small to cast. May be needed even opposite component with -2STR for two handers. :P Basically, i'm ok with idea of component, but this is not very well fit in spells. Even more: mage / druid can cast Strength spell to set it to 18/xx. Then Cleric cast Strength of One (+2STR) => 20STR. Interesting combination? I'm love buffs, and this is probably one of first combo available. But this component ruins this benefit. :) Don't treat this as something, just minor feedback.
  • LamiarLamiar Member Posts: 136
    edited December 2017
    @subtledoctor in SoB 5.8:

    Mage/Thief loose ability to dual-wield. I'm generally agreed with current multi-class mage restrictions to single-wield and two-handed only, but feel that M/T should be special case.

    Rangers somewhy loose ability to specialize with shield fighting. They are almost pure fighters, they are should/can almost anything, and bit more than fighter (since they can eventually cast spells).

    Ranger/Cleric - same.

    Druid are allowed only to single-wielding or two-handed. (Looks unchanged.)

    Fighter/Druid additionally allowed dual-wielding. I'm completely lost logic here: why not shield fighting. And if we keep most restrective druid part here - why then it is allowed to dual-wielding.

    Well. Probably i'm for self should violate some of this rules.

    "My team" bit grow, so i'm use Jaheira-like Fighter/Druid with single-wielding scimitar, and Ranger/Cleric with warhammer and shield. I'm not so long ago looked for some class which will be capable to shield-fighting and stop exactly at Ranger/Cleric. Ranger as almost pure fighter can specialize in this, and for Cleric shields is not something foreign.

    Basically, currently weapon style restrictions to classes bit unclean, not documented, and sometimes logic behind restricted weapon styles is unclear.

    From one side when multiclass - we should take most restrictive choice. On other side - opposite...
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