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The Nightmare Mode (Legacy of Bhaal) Thread

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Comments

  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 158
    edited January 11
    Finally got around a tactic that works well for Demilich version of Kangaxx in SCS/LOB without cheese

    #1 Get a archer/fighter who can use firetooth crossbow or gesen and has smite

    #2 Position this character on the right hand side of the room

    #3 Position your nuking party on the left side of the room (add stuff that works like mordy swords, spike traps, etc.)

    #4 When Kangaxx spawn use Smite and shot him before he will cast his protections (fairly easy to do)

    #5 Kangaxx will be pushed along the left edge to the corner being stunned 1 round and nuked down. Before this round ends dragon breath also deals damage so it's nice.



    Left side of the room is perfect to set up some traps. Time traps, spike traps. summons, anything works and isn't wasted for his lich form.

    I didn't end up needing even 1 mordy sword (I did cast it from NRD but it didn't manage to even get in range as I did it mid combat). Two dragon breaths and nuke from FMT carsomyr (GWW) and FM (daystar improved haste) and archer was enough.

    Post edited by Myrag on
    gorgonzola
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,072
    edited January 12
    Isn't that just abusing a gap in the SCS prebuff script if you're stunning him before it kicks in? Doesn't that entirely defeat the purpose of having prebuffs in the first place?

    gorgonzola
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 7,949
    It's kind of a moot point. You could do the exact same thing with a single Fire Seed (bring Cernd into the party just long enough to conjure a few) even after his pre-buffs triggered. Just activate Smite, throw a Fire Seed at somebody next to Kangaxx, and the demi-lich should go flying into the traps, PFMW or no, though his Stoneskin would block the trap damage if your install switches Spike Traps to dealing piercing damage instead of magic damage.

    But if you want to abuse scripts, just use a Protection from Undead scroll on his demi-lich form. It'll completely break his script; he won't be able to cast any spells.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,072
    edited January 14
    Luckily using IR/SR fixes most of that.

  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 158

    Isn't that just abusing a gap in the SCS prebuff script if you're stunning him before it kicks in? Doesn't that entirely defeat the purpose of having prebuffs in the first place?

    @Lord_Tansheron Darn it, why do you have to be right! Make me feel bad about my kills. This is a good thing though, you challenge me.

    Problem is that his demilich form has multiple PFMW which literally no way to remove them. SCS makes breach affect liches but not demiliches so your only options are spells or heavy prebuffing and just standing there killing his summoned demons. In terms of trying to melee him down it's almost pointless, basically from challenging to unfun and tedious. In party it's even harder because his area requires all members inside 'gather party...' which means kangaxx will target least buffed member and end him. Improved invis helps though but not for long.

    Best option I could think of in terms of killing him with spells would be timestop into multiple ruby rays and/or spellstrike before trying to blow him with Dragon Breaths.

    Even in demilich form he has 300+ HP (I think) so dragons breath with 50 average damage means I would need 6/7 of them, or 3/4 with Wish Intoxication (which might actually be a good idea). Could also blast him with cleric spells/rings/daystar for bit more.

    I actually just thought, maybe wish breach could work? Never tested really.

    I restarted my playthrough so once I get to Kangaxx again I will post above as I don't have save before fight, or maybe just spawn him with CLUA :)

    I restarted to replace Wild Mage with Sorcerer simply because I feel like overall sorcerer is better. While yes I can cast 15+ level 9 spells using Simulacra/Project Image as a wild mage, I just feel like I sacrefice level 1-8 spells too much for this. There is plenty of amazing spells of lower levels which Sorcerer simply excels at. Not like I can't PI TS->IA->Empty book->Dispel magic into another instant PI to achieve same amount of level 9 spell casts (although in 2 rounds instead of 1) but many many more of lower levels. One thing I don't like as a sorc are 4 level 9 known spells because CC/TS/Wish feel like a must so I can't pick Imprisonment/Spellstrike/Spell Trap; in LOB/SCS I probably will pick Imprisonment since those demons and planetars are scary as fuck. With multiple castings sorcerer would make a great use of those. I will be making bigger post on Wild Mage vs Sorcerer for SCS/LOB party runs as I already completed few just to post my impressions. Uhhh I got sidetracked again.

    I'll check few more tactics later on.

    Still I feel like SCS Twisted Rune was harder my last playthorugh and still will be next run. I don't use PFM and PFU scrolls which would make this piece a cake really. Only place where I feel that all moves are allowed is big 5.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,072
    Myrag said:

    Still I feel like SCS Twisted Rune was harder

    Not surprising, since it's multiple enemies. Those are generally more difficult.

    And I still feel I need to plug the regular reminder to go try out IR/SR.

  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 158
    You are like a drug dealer you know @Lord_Tansheron? Because you know you just need to hook up me up once and then I will be addicted! :smile:

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 1,467

    Isn't that just abusing a gap in the SCS prebuff script if you're stunning him before it kicks in? Doesn't that entirely defeat the purpose of having prebuffs in the first place?

    abusing a gap, really old school concept, not wrong but old school.
    and it does not entirely defeat the purpose of having prebuffs, as the prebuff scripts are already there and finding a gap and a tactic (timing, positioning of the party and so on) that let you use that gap is not like fight without the prebuff script.
    is a different style than ignoring the gap and letting the buffs trigger, but in it there is research, creativity and some skill is involved.

    the mod with its prebuff scripts is given as it is, the goal is to beat it, is a player choice in defeating it finding a hole in it or going trough the path intended by the modder, buffing the party to survive, waiting for some buffs to expire and the rest.

    both ways are good, as long as they give fun, both styles, old and new school, are legittimate.
    you are perfectly right saying that it is abusing a gap, but telling if doing it, as long as is not trivial as bombing from FoW with fireballs, is one of the ways of beating the mod or should be avoided is only taste and style related. I personally appreciate more who finds such gaps then who goes trough an interminable sequence of buffs and debuffs and all the rest. my personal taste. and even if i appreciate i don't do the same tactic myself, finding a tactic has its merit, following other people recipes not. but probably i try to find an other gap and pierce trough it, as i am really old school...

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,072
    This is a pointless line of argument. There is no "good", or "legitimate", or "right" way of doing things, and the entire notion of using terms like that has no place in a PG discussion where it's about personal responsibility and nothing else.

    You want to do things a certain way, go ahead. I am in no position to tell you not to go looking for ways to make the scripts you installed with SCS not work - that's entirely up to you. I'm merely offering a critique of that process and pointing out that going to the trouble of putting something into the game only so you can find a way to take it out again appears, to me, a bit counterproductive. Whether or not you act on that critique, and how, is entirely up to you and not subject to any value judgment of any kind whatsoever.

    All I'm offering are suggestions and food for thought. Like installing IR/SR.

    gorgonzolasemiticgod
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 7,949
    Exploits are like any other tactic. They're fun for a while, and then they gradually become less interesting and people eventually stop doing them because they want to try something else. Sometimes they're fun for a really long time; sometimes they're only fun for a short time. Either way, people will choose the playstyle that most suits them at the moment.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,072
    Absolutely agree.

    Though I guess most exploits are still a bit different from actively modding something into the game and then proceeding to find a way to not have that thing actually be in the game. Seems a bit boggling.

  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 158
    I agree with all of you.

    In the end my goal isn't to avoid mechanics of SCS but I approach fight from every angle and this was my lazy way to do things angle :smile: next time I will dragon's breath his skull.

  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 158
    edited January 20
    Just gone through kangaxx 20+ fights so see what works best.

    Seems like one tactic was usually so strong others were pale in comparison.

    Simply said Project Image -> Alacrity -> Ruby Ray x2 -> Pierce Shield x4 -> ADHW x2 -> dispel PI -> Project Image -> Chain Contigency x3/4 ADHW and that's it. With his 230 HP on LOB it is enough.

    Optionally you can timestop to land Pierce Shields and ruby rays as Kangaxx likes to summon demons which sometimes get hit and he likes to move sometimes too.

    I pretty much soloed him with Sorc while others patiently waited in the corner.

    Things that I checked
    • Wish Breach doesn't work, probably due to kangaxx low level spells immunity. I checked it mostly due to fact that when enemy casts this their breach was going though my Spell Immunity Abj so I thought it might be different implementation of the spell
    • Dragon Breath doesn't work as he buffs himself with protection from fire (100 magic fire immunity)
    • There is no way to remove his PFMW, protection from fire, fire shields, etc. due to his immunity to breach. Need to wait those out for melee types.
    • Planetar is useless as he is almost instantly Imprisoned during first time stop
    Bonus notes
    • This run I went for Human Skin +5 on archer, with Improved Invis on her she was easily able to resist/saving throw against for Trap of the Soul from Kangaxx
    • Kangaxx sees through improved invis but it's still nice for saving throw bonuses

    Post edited by Myrag on
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,072
    It's been forever that I actually did Kangaxx, I can't remember how IR/SR changed Breach and its interaction with demilich immunities. I think it was like SCS?

    I may actually get some time to play soon, I'll try and test things a bit. The general strategy I usually employ is similar to yours, though - essentially just a massive bombardment with every protection removal known to man until you get to land some hits eventually.

    Sorcerer certainly shines in fights like these, but that's basically it; on most other fights they're a bit awkward because they lack a simple source of damage output, and of course the silly CC combos like Greater Malison into Chaos are far, far less effective under SR than under vanilla rules. I don't think that Kangaxx and similar fights, which are literally the epitome of magical combat, are argument enough for me to want to include a pure caster. A hybrid mage might be less effective, but by no means ineffective - they do the same, with just a little more work. In return, they can get in there and smash the other 99% of the time. Seems well worth it to me.

    I'd still like to experiment with DD tanking, but perhaps I'd be better off just switching to a more spell heavy setup and get better at baiting dispels properly.

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