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Seducer Kit for Thieves v1.32

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  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,457
    edited May 2017
    In 3.5 the Beguiler was class was an illusion/enchantment specialist with rogue skills. Not that has to do with anything, just reminded me.

    Edit: This class is looking super rad, like super super rad. I like that monsters can gain fighter levels. I still haven't started the playthrough yet but it's going to happen eventually XD
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 526
    Have to ask now traditional question - any plans to make this very, very cool mod EET compatible?
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 526
    In abstract, since EET is not mentioned in compatibility list and it is such a pain to re-install all mods that I would like to know in advance if each one works.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Mirandel: I know nothing of EET, or how to make this mod compatible with it. Another modder would know, and I'd be willing to fix it up if I knew how.
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 526
    Thanks, good to know. If I happen to re-install my EET again I'll try it anyway, just to test.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
    Mirandel
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    I really wish it was a Bard kit - losing spellcasting is nothing compared to this kit's potential.

    Perfect for Eldoth IMHO.
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 526
    Decided to check it out without re-installing everything - just added on top of EET.

    Looks like everything works. The only minor ... can not even call it a bug - hitch? - in EEKeeper in "Characteristics" table it does not appear in the list of Kits. Instead you see "Sword Dancer of Eilistraee" (two of them, for original Eilistraee kit too). However, in the table "Innate" kit is shown and can be chosen for granting specific spells.
    Guess, some shared variables or wrong installation order.

    @Raduziel Well, you can always cheat :) Kitted mage/thief with "Seducer" is practically a bard.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I might make a Seducer kit for bards, but I'd still need to work out how to balance it.

    I've done some testing on the Seduction spell and I've found some interesting uses for it. I have a full tetralogy run with a Seducer protagonist beginning here and ending here that gives some examples of the things you can do with Seduction.

    Like bringing a pair of dragons to the final battle of Throne of Bhaal.

    Anyhoo, the run goes from BG1 to SoD to BG2 to ToB and involves two protagonists, a Seducer and a dual-classed Seducer/Mage. You can find all of the individual posts here:

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/899226/#Comment_899226
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/899249/#Comment_899249
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/899476/#Comment_899476
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/899528/#Comment_899528
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/899532/#Comment_899532
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/899677/#Comment_899677
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/899690/#Comment_899690
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/899705/#Comment_899705
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/899899/#Comment_899899
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/900093/#Comment_900093
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/900164/#Comment_900164
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/900364/#Comment_900364
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/900440/#Comment_900440
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/900689/#Comment_900689
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/900912/#Comment_900912
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/900928/#Comment_900928
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/900951/#Comment_900951
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/900997/#Comment_900997
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901002/#Comment_901002
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901189/#Comment_901189
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901215/#Comment_901215
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901358/#Comment_901358
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901390/#Comment_901390
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901428/#Comment_901428
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901443/#Comment_901443
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901473/#Comment_901473
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901475/#Comment_901475
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901554/#Comment_901554
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901612/#Comment_901612
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/901622/#Comment_901622
    Mirandellolien
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Mirandel: I just installed EET via BWS and the Seducer kit works just fine when installed on top of it.
    Mirandel
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Updated to v1.3. The Seducer now has the Recruit Follower ability, which allows you to add even more critters to your party. Due to engine limitations, the followers are counted as familiars rather than party members, which means you can't access their inventory or spellbooks and cannot raise them from the dead. They also gain no XP or levels. However, there is no limit to the number of followers you can have (provided that you can keep them all alive). I haven't done much playtesting or balancing, but it seems to be working as intended.

    Also, if a critter is too high-level to be affected by Recruit Follower or Seduction, a blank string will display over the critter's head and in the dialogue box, to let you know your Seducer isn't quite experienced enough to bring the target into the group.

    Testing has found that the kit should be balanced in most occasions for most players, but if you push the Seducer kit to its absolute limit--looking up critter levels in Near Infinity to get the best monsters at the lowest levels, using level drain to make higher-end monsters vulnerable to Seduction or Recruit Follower, bringing SCS vampires into the party, and so forth--the kit does have far more potential than any other class. Not everyone will find the endgame to be much fun with multiple 500-HP dragons in the party.

    I mean, I had a blast doing that, but not everyone would. If you're worried about game balance, you may want to steer clear of the Seduction spell and possibly also the Recruit Follower spell (the less exploitable version of the two). The Seducer will still be perfectly capable without those two spells.
  • chimericchimeric Member Posts: 1,163
    edited October 2017
    The idea is very interesting, and it can be used in other ways... But I think a better name for this kit would be Gang Leader or Bandit King. Or even Rebel General. Or Messiah, why not. There needs to be an explanation about why (never mind how) golems and slimes would follow someone's lead. Let me ask you about their gaining levels, though. How did you script them to level up? Or do you pass them through the party to click up manually and then kick them out to Familiar again?
    semiticgoddessMirandel
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @chimeric: I've considered creating a new kit called Cultist Leader or something to that effect that would involve recruiting people, but right now I'm just working on this kit.

    Followers can never level up. Only party members can level up. I didn't want to motivate the player to engage in the intensive micromanagement needed to customize an army of 10 followers, so you can't switch a critter from party member to follower or vice versa. There would just be so many steps that the player could spend an hour reorganizing a party instead of playing the game. I don't want to incentivize the player to spend their time doing inventory management; that's what Skyrim is for.

    As for golems and slimes: I didn't want to decide for the player which critters would realistically be susceptible to a Seducer's powers, and the whole point of this kit, in fact, was to let the player charm anyone, at least temporarily, simply because charms are so much fun and yet immunity to charm is so incredibly common. I only forbade the player from seducing critters like Clay Golems, Mordenkainen's Swords, trolls, or plot-immune characters, because I was concerned that a truly invincible ally would never be fun. A powerful ally can be fun, even if it breaks the difficulty of the game, but an ally that can't die no matter what kind of destroys the drama. Level 20+ Firkraag could lose a fight against Melissan. A level 8 Clay Golem wouldn't.

    Golems, statues, swords, and critters that can't go below 1 HP cannot join the group. More recently, summoned and gated critters cannot be made into followers for balance reasons--otherwise the best followers would just be 20 Mordenkainen's Swords or Glabrezus, and there'd be no reason to recruit anyone else.

    As for oozes and jellies, they're allowed. But their slow movement rate would discourage any player from keeping them for long, unless you seduced them and used Relair's Mistake to polymorph them into wolves when traveling, as I did in my no-reload runs with a Gray Ooze and Schlumpsa.
    Grond0ArctodusMirandelOlvynChuru
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,173
    You know I can only read about you seducing oozes so many times before I start to feel dirty... I mean... that is to say... well you know exactly what I mean. I like the idea of changing the class to specialise in particular monster types. The Jellymancer is a common roguelike build and I can see a Ghaundar priest or the like as having possibilities, or the proverbial druid or ranger accompanied by wolves or whatever.
    semiticgoddess
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Mantis37 said:

    You know I can only read about you seducing oozes so many times before I start to feel dirty...

    I know exactly what you mean. :wink:

    For those of you who might not know, goo people are totally a real thing.


    By krowsy at Weasyl

    I'm afraid as a moderator I'm obligated to post the most SFW image I could find. Ask @Kamigoroshi if you want to know more.
    KamigoroshiMantis37lolienArctodus
  • Necromanx2Necromanx2 Member Posts: 1,246
    @semiticgod, can this be a zip file also?
    semiticgoddess
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Necromanx2: I just switched the main file to .zip format.
  • Necromanx2Necromanx2 Member Posts: 1,246
    Thank you!
  • Necromanx2Necromanx2 Member Posts: 1,246
    I installed on BGEE and started a new game. My Seducer can wear armor though the description says I should not be able to.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Necromanx2: That's odd. Seducers should have the same item restrictions as shapeshifters; they're coded as such.
  • Necromanx2Necromanx2 Member Posts: 1,246
    It was the last mod I installed, so no other mod should have hit it. Unless a different mod has redefined armor? I don't know.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Necromanx2: Could you attach your WeiDu log?
  • Necromanx2Necromanx2 Member Posts: 1,246
    I actually redid my entire install. So I no longer have BGEE with the mod installed. When I get home, I will install it again and see if I have the same issue. I can then provide the log and screenshots.
    semiticgoddess
  • Necromanx2Necromanx2 Member Posts: 1,246
    Here is a screenshot of my Seducer wearing studded leather.




    And here is my log.

    // Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
    // The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
    // ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
    ~SETUP-TENYATHERMIDOR.TP2~ #0 #0 // Tenya Thermidor for BG:EE
    ~CONTINOUSVICONIAAPPEARANCE/SETUP-CONTINOUSVICONIAAPPEARANCE.TP2~ #0 #100 // Continous Viconia: 1
    ~MSFM.TP2~ #0 #2 // Add Circlet of Revelation: v1.43
    ~MSFM.TP2~ #0 #3 // Add inventory animation to circlets: v1.43
    ~WILLOWISP/WILLOWISP.TP2~ #0 #5 // Witchlight Shaman standalone kit for BG:EE and BG2:EE
    ~BARDICWONDERS/SETUP-BARDICWONDERS.TP2~ #0 #0 // Bardic Wonders: Abettor of Mask Kit
    ~BARDICWONDERS/SETUP-BARDICWONDERS.TP2~ #0 #1 // Bardic Wonders: Dancer Kit
    ~BARDICWONDERS/SETUP-BARDICWONDERS.TP2~ #0 #2 // Bardic Wonders: Storm Drummer Kit
    ~BARDICWONDERS/SETUP-BARDICWONDERS.TP2~ #0 #3 // Bardic Wonders: Troubadour Kit
    ~ELDRITCH_MAGIC/ELDRITCH_MAGIC.TP2~ #0 #0 // EE: Item Expansion: v1.67
    ~ELDRITCH_MAGIC/ELDRITCH_MAGIC.TP2~ #0 #1 // Congenio's Pebble Collection: v1.67
    ~ELDRITCH_MAGIC/ELDRITCH_MAGIC.TP2~ #0 #3 // XP Cap Removal -> Remove XP Cap: v1.67
    ~PALEMASTER/SETUP-PALEMASTER.TP2~ #0 #0 // Pale Master Kit for BG:EE, BG2:EE and IWD:EE: v1.4.5
    ~PALEMASTER/SETUP-PALEMASTER.TP2~ #0 #2 // Evermemory Fix for BG:EE: v1.4.5
    ~ZKWSALARIN/SETUP-ZKWSALARIN.TP2~ #0 #0 // Weavescale Sorcerer Kit for BG:EE
    ~SHAPESHIFTERFIGHTERKIT/SHAPESHIFTERFIGHTERKIT.TP2~ #0 #0 // Shapeshifter Kit for Fighters: 1.0
    ~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #30 // IWD Arcane Spell Pack: Beta 4
    ~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #40 // IWD Divine Spell Pack: Beta 4
    ~IWDIFICATION/SETUP-IWDIFICATION.TP2~ #0 #60 // Two Handed Axe Item Pack: Beta 4
    ~SHADOWADEPT/SETUP-SHADOWADEPT.TP2~ #0 #0 // Shadow Magic: Shadow Adept mage Kit for BG:EE
    ~SHADOWADEPT/SETUP-SHADOWADEPT.TP2~ #0 #1 // Shadow Magic: Shadow Monk monk kit for BG:EE
    ~SHADOWADEPT/SETUP-SHADOWADEPT.TP2~ #0 #2 // Shadow Magic: Item Pack
    ~SHADOWADEPT/SETUP-SHADOWADEPT.TP2~ #0 #3 // Shadow Magic: Quests and Encounters (BG:EE)
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #0 // Base Cleric Changes (required for all components): 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #1 // Install kit: Heartwarder of Sune: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #2 // Install kit: Battleguard of Tempus: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #3 // Install kit: Strifeleader of Cyric: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #4 // Install kit: Nightcloak of Shar: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #5 // Install kit: Alaghar of Clangeddin: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #6 // Install kit: Hoodwinker of Baravar: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #7 // Install kit: Fastpaw of Baervan: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #8 // Install kit: Watcher of Helm: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #9 // Install kit: Stormcaller of Talos: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #10 // Install kit: Dawnbringer of Lathander: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #11 // Install kit: Holy Justice of Tyr: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #12 // Install kit: Lorekeeper of Oghma: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #13 // Install kit: Painbearer of Ilmater: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #14 // Install kit: Dweomerkeeper of Mystra: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #15 // Install kit: Holy Champion of Torm: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #16 // Install kit: Silentwalker of Mask: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #18 // Quayle, the Hoodwinker of Baravar: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #19 // Glint, the Hoodwinker of Baravar: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #20 // Yeslick, the Alaghar of Clangeddin: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #21 // Tiax, the Strifeleader of Cyric: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #23 // Branwen, the Battleguard of Tempus: 1.1
    ~DEITIESOFFAERUN/DEITIESOFFAERUN.TP2~ #0 #24 // Viconia, the Nightcloak of Shar: 1.1
    ~FAITHS_AND_POWERS/FAITHS_AND_POWERS.TP2~ #0 #105 // Select an installation method below: -> no new kits - JUST install the sphere system: 0.74.21
    ~SEDUCERKIT/SEDUCERKIT.TP2~ #0 #0 // Seducer Kit for Thieves: v1.20
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I think it's either Eldritch Magic or more likely Deities of Faerun that's causing the inconsistency. I suppose it could also be another kit mod.

    The thing about item restrictions is that they aren't coded in the kit itself; each kit just gets a single code out of a very limited set, and then every item in the game either has a flag or has no flag that says that that specific kit can't use it. So, a Shapeshifter and a Seducer have the same code, 0x10000000, and any item with a certain flag will prevent both Seducers and Shapeshifters from using it. You can't create custom item restrictions.

    Some major kit mods get around that, however, by patching all items so they have different usability flags. This way, you can rig a kit to be incapable of using shields, like a Kensai, but still able to use helms, unlike a Kensai. If one of your kit mods does this to create an alternate set of item restrictions, it might have removed the "no Shapeshifter" flag from certain sets of armor so the mod creator could use that flag for another purpose. I'm guessing that Deities of Faerun changes the items that normally carry "no Shapeshifter" flags.

    I think I've solved the problem by removing the Seducer's kit code and just applying some special opcodes at level 1 that forbid the Seducer from several item types. It should now be compatible with any other kit mod; it's no longer dependent on Shapeshifter item restrictions. I'd recommend completely uninstalling your existing Seducer kit before downloading and installing the new version.
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 526
    You know, if you turn first edition of the mod - the one with Hypnosis ability - into a bard kit, so it can be installed in the same time as thief-seducer, it'd be the first time I would play a bard :)
    I would even say that Hypnosis can be a bard song for that particular kit. It might be super-OP but soooo much fun!
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,847
    The Psionic Foresight HLA does not include invisibility detection despite the description indicating that it does. Is it supposed to have it or not?
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Flashburn: I've recently fixed it, but haven't yet uploaded it.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Flashburn: I've posted the update. Also, now the Seduction and Recruit Follower spells display a message when the target is too high-level to add to the party or add as a permanent follower.

    There's a bug where using Recruit Follower on certain creatures can crash the game, but I don't know what causes it. The bug might even be dependent on one's install. Just bear in mind that, in general, Seduction and Recruit Follower can be game-breaking for various reasons. If you want to play it safe, don't use those two spells--the kit is balanced assuming the player doesn't use them.

    @argent77: I might have asked you this question before, but do you have any idea why Recruit Follower could crash the game when used on certain critters? I'm guessing it has something to do with the target's status as a familiar that's conflicting with something.
    Flashburn
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