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Nwn comes out of beta March 27?

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  • StaranStaran Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 295
    edited March 2018
    DerpCity said:

    @Dark_Ansem If I'm frank, I think NWN2's OC is better than MotB. Granted, its an Epic Level campaign and I don't particularly care for those, but I didn't really like Rashmen, and I didn't particularly care for Safiya or Gann. However, I concur that NWN2 overall isn't better than NWN. NWN has always been a smoother gaming experience for me. Even 1.69 NWN runs smoothly on Windows 7, while NWN2 consistently has crashing and lag issues, as well as the overall gameplay when it isn't having a heart attack being incredibly stiff and having dumb animations.

    Also, I don't understand people's issues when it came to playing NWN 1.69 on modern hardware. It runs almost flawlessly on my Windows 7 computer at 1920x1080 without pretty much any lag. Am I missing something?

    The laptop I am using is maybe 11 years old.
    Works perfectly for nwn

    But the reasons for nwn2 being better than nwn2 is
    1) direct control of henchmen. You will never get good enough ai so this makes it better
    2) nwn2 original campaign and first expansion was the best writing in any video game I have ever played

    Other than that, the original nwn toolset was easier. There is a lot more content for it. More accessible.
    Andarianhelmo1977
  • zordren3742zordren3742 Member Posts: 207
    edited October 2019
    *
    Post edited by zordren3742 on
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 992
    Staran said:

    DerpCity said:

    @Dark_Ansem If I'm frank, I think NWN2's OC is better than MotB. Granted, its an Epic Level campaign and I don't particularly care for those, but I didn't really like Rashmen, and I didn't particularly care for Safiya or Gann. However, I concur that NWN2 overall isn't better than NWN. NWN has always been a smoother gaming experience for me. Even 1.69 NWN runs smoothly on Windows 7, while NWN2 consistently has crashing and lag issues, as well as the overall gameplay when it isn't having a heart attack being incredibly stiff and having dumb animations.

    Also, I don't understand people's issues when it came to playing NWN 1.69 on modern hardware. It runs almost flawlessly on my Windows 7 computer at 1920x1080 without pretty much any lag. Am I missing something?

    The laptop I am using is maybe 11 years old.
    Works perfectly for nwn

    But the reasons for nwn2 being better than nwn2 is
    1) direct control of henchmen. You will never get good enough ai so this makes it better
    2) nwn2 original campaign and first expansion was the best writing in any video game I have ever played

    Other than that, the original nwn toolset was easier. There is a lot more content for it. More accessible.
    Direct control of henchmen? I found it just as clunky. At any rate, it should not be IMPOSSIBLE to implement in NWN1. Only by developers, of course.

    Can't beat Planescape Torment, alas, and I found the NWN2OC quite boring. But MotB is, well, on par with Knights of the Old Republic 2.
    DerpCity
  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member, Moderator Posts: 1,248

    False. NWN2 was only better for Mask of the Betrayer, which also has an amazing soundtrack. Main OC boring, the other ones had plenty of nifty tricks which materialised only too late in their campaigns.

    Opinion is not false. Opinion is subjective.

    You may disagree but that does not invalidate someone else's feelings or experiences. They are simply not the same as yours.

    My favorite Assassins Creed game is Unity. I think it has the most interesting characters and rich world. Most everyone else hates it. No one needs to change their opinion to mind nor do I have to change my opinion to theirs. There is discussion to be had for sure but in that discussion there are no absolutes.

    :)
    AndarianDerpCityZwerkulesmegamike15
  • AndarianAndarian Member Posts: 185

    Worry not, the team have been aware of this thread since the first post in it. And all the feedback that is being shared, not only in this thread but everywhere on this forum, Steam, Reddit and a few other sites, is being passed to the team.

    I appreciate and am glad to hear that. My feedback is less about the idea of releasing the update earlier than we expected than it is about the ability to plan content releases around the shortened timeframe, especially given outstanding issues.

    It's always been my intention, since the extended edition was announced, to release a NWN:EE enhanced version of my own modules. I planned to do it well before (and certainly no later than) the game's official release date -- and apparently like most others here, I had assumed that would be at least a few months out yet. I didn't anticipate only two and a half weeks warning. I will now have to drop everything else I'm doing to even try to make this date.

    Aside from an obvious personal interest in showcasing my work at a time when player interest would be high, I think that having a stable of good community modules ready to go on launch date (and preferably on Steam) can only help the EE as well. Managing that will be complicated by the shortened timeframe. There's a need to coordinate with other developers to get the required custom content onto Steam in the first place, and to get permission and/or develop a community consensus about when it is appropriate to do so. The community is still working out these issues.

    There's also a significant bug in the current build that effectively requires re-generating a module's entire musical score to make the sound of acceptable quality for a public release. We've been waiting for a fix to this, and now it appears that there's no time left to wait. Doing that work and getting permission and/or consensus to re-release that content will take time. I'll do what I can to emphasize the need to step up the pace on this, but to be candid I wish we'd had more warning.
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 992
    Andarian said:

    Worry not, the team have been aware of this thread since the first post in it. And all the feedback that is being shared, not only in this thread but everywhere on this forum, Steam, Reddit and a few other sites, is being passed to the team.

    I appreciate and am glad to hear that. My feedback is less about the idea of releasing the update earlier than we expected than it is about the ability to plan content releases around the shortened timeframe, especially given outstanding issues.

    It's always been my intention, since the extended edition was announced, to release a NWN:EE enhanced version of my own modules. I planned to do it well before (and certainly no later than) the game's official release date -- and apparently like most others here, I had assumed that would be at least a few months out yet. I didn't anticipate only two and a half weeks warning. I will now have to drop everything else I'm doing to even try to make this date.

    Aside from an obvious personal interest in showcasing my work at a time when player interest would be high, I think that having a stable of good community modules ready to go on launch date (and preferably on Steam) can only help the EE as well. Managing that will be complicated by the shortened timeframe. There's a need to coordinate with other developers to get the required custom content onto Steam in the first place, and to get permission and/or develop a community consensus about when it is appropriate to do so. The community is still working out these issues.

    There's also a significant bug in the current build that effectively requires re-generating a module's entire musical score to make the sound of acceptable quality for a public release. We've been waiting for a fix to this, and now it appears that there's no time left to wait. Doing that work and getting permission and/or consensus to re-release that content will take time. I'll do what I can to emphasize the need to step up the pace on this, but to be candid I wish we'd had more warning.
    Why do you need to regenerate the musical score?
  • AndarianAndarian Member Posts: 185
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 992
    Andarian said:
    I thought this was also an issue with vanilla tracks? (and reported it as such) - I lost count of the static during the ID or PotSC theme.
    StaranDerpCity
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 992

    And this is why I am concerned. Excellent answer from @JuliusBorisov however.
    JuliusBorisovDerpCity
  • StaranStaran Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 295
    I...don’t understand the post in relation to nwn.
    Can you draw me a picture?
  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,286
    Staran said:

    I...don’t understand the post in relation to nwn.
    Can you draw me a picture?

    I think it alludes to the idea that for some people NWN:EE up to this point does not feel "enhanced" and we end up with yet another round of "shameless cash grab" responses.
  • StaranStaran Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 295
    Ah. Ok, thank you
  • MrDamageMrDamage Member Posts: 210

    Staran said:

    I...don’t understand the post in relation to nwn.
    Can you draw me a picture?

    I think it alludes to the idea that for some people NWN:EE up to this point does not feel "enhanced" and we end up with yet another round of "shameless cash grab" responses.
    I think people are getting a little too excited for nothing. Here’s a newsflash to give you an insight into my thoughts. Nwn EE was Always a cash grab. Beamdog and crew are not a secretive order of monks presiding in a forgotten temple somewhere in the mountains above the 49th parallel carefully crafting the ultimate masterpiece whilst chanting prayers to the god of D&D. (Although I like to think they are)
    This thing needs to make them money or they’re gonna drop it like a bad habit. Money=fuel to keep going. I’m a realist so I don’t blame them for trying to get an income stream up and running ASAP. The question then becomes, why?
    A/ Trent wants to upgrade that yaught/ dingy he has moored in the Bahamas.
    B/ phill wants some expensive hair regrowth treatments?
    C/ This project is getting expensive(everybody wants Uber graphics) so they need to subsidise the project onward without taxing Beamdog unacceptably.
    D/ some weird crazy ass reason I haven’t thought of which will lead to the whole thing crashing and burning and project being dumped in a caustic radioactive mess which nobody will Be able to touch for 1000 years.

    I like to think it’s B, but I believe it’s something along the lines of C. I hope I’m right or at least in the ball park. I don’t think they’re turning their back on the project and doing a runner with the loot bag. I like to think they’re going to do everything they said they would but it’s going to be while it’s live so it seems. In any case, they’ve stabilised the game to latest OS’s and the graphics looks like it’s coming along ok. I can understand people that have huge projects in the game getting annoyed and don’t seek to rub salt into the wound with this post I’m just being a realist.
    AndarianDerpCityWarChiefZeke
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Beamdog can redo all of the graphics and rebuild the engine from scratch and release their own custom content for free and people will still call it a "cash grab" with a modded original being far superior than the EE.

    Nothing Beamdog does will prevent people from saying this. They need to control the message however on what is enhanced and why it is superior to the DE.
    SkipBittman
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 992
    MrDamage said:


    I think people are getting a little too excited for nothing. Here’s a newsflash to give you an insight into my thoughts. Nwn EE was Always a cash grab. Beamdog and crew are not a secretive order of monks presiding in a forgotten temple somewhere in the mountains above the 49th parallel carefully crafting the ultimate masterpiece whilst chanting prayers to the god of D&D. (Although I like to think they are)
    This thing needs to make them money or they’re gonna drop it like a bad habit. Money=fuel to keep going.

    The thing is, there is a specific nuance and flavour associated with "money grab": it projects the idea of something illegitimate and dodgy, made not for the purpose of delivery, but for the purpose of grabbing cash by delivering something half-arsed and, possibly, overpriced.

    Which probably explains the irritated tone of the answer by @JuliusBorisov . Completely justified, of course.

    We all know that such products are designed to sell. But not JUST to sell. After all, the first NWN received quasi-universal acclaim. And it came packed with "extras".

    TLDR: producers of products of love don't enjoy their work being demoted to "money grab".
    But: "alas gold, filthy gold! We all need it from our long-fingered friends" (Cit Harry Potter book 7).

    MrDamageDerpCity
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    edited March 2018
    Not irritated at all (sad, though - yes). Everyone can share whichever opinion they think they should. The more opinions the better. But of course when there's only one opinion shared in a thread I feel the need to provide a counterargument.
    DerpCityvoidofopiniontfox
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 992

    Not irritated at all (sad, though - yes). Everyone can share whichever opinion they think they should. The more opinions the better. But of course when there's only one opinion shared in a thread I feel the need to provide a counterargument.

    Of course. But an opinion built on a falsehood is a false opinion. At least one should allow the benefit of doubt.
  • StaranStaran Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 295
    edited March 2018
    But guessing and extrapolating what people are feeling and expressing in message boards and texts from my wife isn’t fair to anyone.

    Back to the subject at hand.
    What harm could an extra couple of months of work do?
  • ninjazninjaz Member Posts: 13
    Staran said:

    But guessing and extrapolating what people are feeling and expressing in message boards and texts from my wife isn’t fair to anyone.

    Back to the subject at hand.
    What harm could an extra couple of months of work do?

    Actually a lot now that I sit and think of it. There are certain timing windows that must be considered as far as press goes. I am sure Beamdog has access to certain analytics that show that releasing the game now but continuing the updates is best. Maybe because many of us are such long time loyalists, we feel that making sure it is every bit as filled out as the original is the best option (I count myself in this camp). I just hope all turns out well. Really, just having a master server back up is well worth the price to me.
    raz651DerpCity
  • FilipseFilipse Member Posts: 36
    edited March 2018
    While im personaly excited (after all the graphical enhancements and normal-map featured mods shown in streams looking amazing) i cannot help but somewhat echo the sentiment that, asides for the older players that know how laggy or buggy the old game could be along with crashing and compability issues pretty frequently on an older-basis the players arent going to see much of a difference thus far, modding features is a plus in the end sure but most people sadly arent going to prod about alot in the toolset in the end from a realistic perspective.

    The picture vs pictures
    on the current steam-preview realy doesnt do much justice or promise much to new people for the future as to what is "Enhanced", in relation to what is to come from the above in the future, i feel like it will give a skewed view and hurt reviews, as it feels like most features are yet to come, and as if the game would probatly be better off doing the Steam-Early Acess thing overall if that is the fact.

    You should improve news-feed and communication to be more clear showing off the upcoming and planned features on Stream more openly outside of vague twitter and these forums, most people dont enjoy using forums and Stream is the largest platform the game recieves people from likely. (seriusly the streams with Phil and Trent while nice, are in 720P it doesnt exactly show off HD-textures/models too well or allow for screenshots with optimal-quality)

    Put simply, releasing on 27th March feels too early, you need -something- flashy to show off the game early on release interms of upgrades that brings people in or gets older people excited along with good press, even though the game is pretty damn cheap for 20$.
    Post edited by Filipse on
  • KaosWarMonkKaosWarMonk Member Posts: 40
    edited March 2018
    Agree with the general consensus. Whilst most of us who've been fans for a long time appreciate what's already been done I don't think there's quite enough wow factor yet. If it goes into full release as is I can see NWN:EE copping a lot of flak for not being enhanced enough to Joe average gamer. Agree that early access would seem more logical as it automatically suggests to Steam users who don't trawl the various forums that the game is being actively worked on.

    That's my 2cp.
    Filipse
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 909
    One of the other problems is that while it isn't enhanced enough to the average player it isn't enhanced enough to the dedicated player for other reasons. Many of the minor enhancements are already present in 1.69, the many features from things like nwshader, nwnx, client extender, and everything ppl have done the last 16 years gives NWN EE a run for it's money. If a returning player knows how to use the google search engine and find out the state of the old game they could also reason that not much is enhanced. NWN EE doesn't really have many big features on release, the texture mapping is nice and better than the community experimental version but there still isn't good documentation or content which uses it.
    Grymlorde
  • NWN_TömlNWN_Töml Member Posts: 90
    edited March 2018
    NWShader never worked for me and if stuff worked it was buggy and simple not playable! So what Beamdog did with their own shader support is pretty awesome at least for me!

    So no i dont think it´s a run for money...not at all!

    Wait and see what they will patch into it in the future and judge then how they treat their game!

    And their support and their will to listen to peoples ideas is also pretty dedicated for me... dont know where it could be judged differently but hey...your oppinion ;)
  • GarenRunebladeGarenRuneblade Member Posts: 13
    I've been enjoying NWN EE (both the Beamdog client version and the Steam version). Now when is the Headstart version going to see some of the same love that Steam is receiving? A DM Client/Toolset launch from the main menu (yes I know Steam has radio buttons from the library page), what will be the status of the Beamdog client version? Will it also move to release?. I ask because some people I know refuse to have anything to do with Steam, free keys or not. I happen to like Steam and love the one-click suscribe/unsuscribe button and the fact that all those mods,haks and overides are going into the Steam Workshop folder on my E drive not my smaller C system drive. Just curious.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    This is a question for a livestream(s). Join the livestream and ask! :)
    bloodstripes
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 909
    Yes the native inclusion of things like shaders makes it easier but you could argue that it already existed as community work in some form. So yes it does give it a run for it's money, even more so when you focus on character customization in which NWN EE still lags behind the best community offerings. Character scaling is still in the "worked on" trello section, while per part and per vfx translate/rotate/scale/lighten/darken/transparency still hasn't made it into the production trello yet.
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    the community can't fix issues like the movies not working right or transparent menus.
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 909
    That's with the NWN EE version.
  • MothorMothor Member Posts: 244
    edited March 2018
    I can understand that the folks in charge of the game might decide to keep cut content off because it did not fit with the rest of the game(though IF the gamers want it then why not include it?) but adding at least stuff like new items, classes or spells would sound like the minimum for those who are not all about multiplayer.

    Better yet IMO: New quests, joinable characters, endings and roleplaying possibilities.

    Or new official campaigns.

    Graphical improvements, compatibility for newer systems and some extra tweaks are nice but lack a WOW factor.

    Just...nice.

    The Baldur's Gate Enhanced versions at least had new joinable characters, classes and items along with the graphical upgrade.

    Will NWN Enhanced Edition go to that lengths as well or any and all additions will be left for the community to handle?
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 909
    Spending most of their time adding things like new quests for one module which can't really be used anywhere else in the game isn't a good bang for the buck. While there are some that reply the same module over and over again most either don't at all or play once and move on. On the other hand if you want more things to do there are many thousands of modules out there which can fill that desire.
    Andarian
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