I didn't mean now, I just thought it might be a good idea for when this becomes a possible issue-always good to be prepared. : )
yep I tend to agree and my years of testing stuff like that have learned me to always look at the whole thing rather than a part of it. But as I said, I'm actually testing and helping @Requiem only with BG:EE so the tests I can do are limited in term of high level balance.
Rest assured I'm aware of the possible problems that could come with BG2:EE and with that in mind I will report everything I find to Requiem whenever it's possible
@tome i will try to make unique HLA's for each class, but for now my focus is on getting a really good selection into BG:EE, i like the idea though and that is probably the way I will go with the hivemaster
@artur The area which may cause issues is starting a game with say v1.0, then installing say v1.2 which may alter the order of kits or the amount of kits (i.e. they will be written to a different line in kitlist.2da) and continuing that original game.
I don't know how in depth your modding knowledge is, but below is a little example of how the install process would typically go.
By adding that new kit, cleric kit #3 is going to have the same internal ID as fighter kit #1 did, so any character who had fighter kit#1 before you updated the mod will now have cleric kit #3. All of the kits below cleric kit #3 will have their kit id's increased by 1, so characters with Fighter kit #2 and druid kit#1 will also be affected.
To avoid this you can either only install a new version of the mod when starting a new game (not ideal), or much more sensible is to use shadowkeeper on your savegame to change the kit back to the correct one after installing a new version. All innate abilities etc will still be on your character after you install a new version, its just the kit that will change (if you level up you will gain the benefits of the new kit).
The aim is that once I have included all of the kits I am going to make then further updates will just be balancing and bugfixing so the kits won't change, I know it's not ideal but it is a limitation that I cannot think of a way around, if anyone who is cleverer than me has any ideas then please let me know.
Big reply lol but I hope that answers your question.
@Requiem - Being the AD&D Planewalker I am, I can tell you that the Frostwielders training ground doesn't make much sense for him/her.
Basically, you can picture the Inner Elemental Plane of Air as an endless, air-filled void without ground. It has everything from gentle breezes, to hurricane-strength gales and dangerous air maelstroms. It's pretty similar to the Paraelemental Plane of Smoke in that regard, albeit less hot and dirty. However, for actual icy winds and everything else cold related, you'd have to travel to the Inner Paraelemental Plane of Ice.
There are also some cold water regions in the Inner Elemental Plane of Water, which may be another alternative. Of course, the water there has no surface and its oceans no ground, meaning Frostwhielders would need to be able to breath underwater or die within a couple of minutes.
@kamigoroshi Informative as always, I'm glad you're so clued up! I will change the description to the paraelemental plane of ice and upload the updated version in the near future, thanks for the info!
@Requiem seems that there's a problem with the option to make Tiax a strifebringer in your last version of the kitpack. All the rest went well but this. I'll start running some tests tomorrow for the new kits and will send you a report as long as some ideas we discussed lately.
@Kamigoroshi thx for the input on the plans its been a long time since I walked those. I'm sure Requiem will work something out (maybe you can send him ideas for the kit description)
@neoesprit i've just tried reinstalling my mod and tiax worked fine, did you install the kit and change him over in one install? They have to be done at the same time or it won't work (weidu only stores the kit number variable in memory during the install).
Dont want to be harsh or rude, but did anyone play-test these?
I was reading through the new kits, and couldnt get past the Shadowstalker. He can go invisible more or less at will... and no penalties to backstab?
At lvl 4 he can backstab at triple damage, and then go invisible straight away. I think this is too powerful... you can more or less solo the game and just backstab (1-hit-kill) people with extreme ease.
@ogaburan Don't feel bad or awkward about giving me feedback or outright criticism, I am more than happy to take it into account, and its the only way things get balanced, I don't have time to play through the entire game with every kit I make so other peoples input is valuable
I can see why you might think shadowstalker is overpowered, however I have personally not found it to be, if you play a thief/illusionist you have all of the benefits you mentioned there plus extra damage from spells. Backstab and invisibility (through potion, item or spell) has always been powerful but I can understand your concern
Invisibility only gives you one attack before you become visible, and if you are fighting more than one enemy you will die pretty quickly due to low health and increased damage taken. Non detection only protects you from lower level divination spells as far as I have found (dont know if this is a bug or not)
Although of course being the author I would argue it is balanced- if anyone finds that any kit is seriously overpowered after a long term playthrough I am happy to tone it down or adjust it. I will play a new game with a solo shadowstalker with 18 strength and see how I do if I feel it is unbalanced then I will tone it down.
Im glad you are not one of those who find it hard to accept critique! Kudos on that.
As for your clarifications; - As a Thief/Illusionist you get half the XP... and if you dont remove the cap you cant get to the really yummy lvls in BG. The Shadowstalker lvls up normally... - You get invisibility once per 2 lvls, so you can back-stab and then quickly go invisible again, its more or less 1 free kill every 2 lvls. For harder fights you can save potions of invisibility... And in a party with a supporting mage its not really hard to get your thief invisible...
You have also tempt me to try and solo the game with as a shadowstalker, as soon as i finnish my current solo with (the usual?) F/M/T.
Dont want to be harsh or rude, but did anyone play-test these?
Yes it's been tested but I have to admit that we can't possibly test every kits thoroughly and my focus has not been on the shadowstalker. As @Requiem said, a thief/illusionist could benefit roughly of the same advantages.
Also you can't possibly expect all kits will be fully balanced by taking into account that someone could play a rogue with 18 strength or more. Strength in BG as always been a considerably overpowered stat and there's nothing we can do about that.
But I'll look into that when I have some time thx for the input
@neoesprit i've just tried reinstalling my mod and tiax worked fine, did you install the kit and change him over in one install? They have to be done at the same time or it won't work (weidu only stores the kit number variable in memory during the install).
I ran into a problem with viconia as nightcloak.
circumstances I am running your mod BGT (not BGEE) with the BG1 NPCs at Beginning mod. Viconia worked fine before I installed this component (ie earlier version of the mod). Now she has her BG2 dialogue "I recognize you!" and then won't say anything. I force-joined her to my party and she was the level 2 version
@smeagolheart you should uninstall the component and add the kit directly via shadowkeeper. I'm not sure the component is working with other version than BG:EE as it replace the existing version of viconia by her version of the same level but as a nightcloak (but I'm not sure it's the same .cre as the one from BGT etc)
@smeagolheart you should uninstall the component and add the kit directly via shadowkeeper. I'm not sure the component is working with other version than BG:EE as it replace the existing version of viconia by her version of the same level but as a nightcloak (but I'm not sure it's the same .cre as the one from BGT etc)
I ran Brawnwen seemed to be fine, her dialogue was fine and she had the kit. I didn't try Tiax. I guess Viconia is just not compatible currently.
@smeagolheart I'm sorry it isn't working for you, I currently don't have my BG2 discs to install BGT and try my mod on that. I don't have any idea why her dialog would change as I don't include any dialog files with my mod. The only reason I can think of is Viconia is assigned a different dialog file in the BGT level 1 NPC mod.
When I have a chance I will look into this and try to fix it, ensuring compatibility with so many others mods is proving to be quite a headache i'm afraid, but I will keep working on it and hopefully get it sorted.
If you can tell me the name of the dialog file she has in BGT I will be happy to ensure that she retains it in my mod for any future installers.
****Edit: after having a quick look through the readme file for the "BGT L1 NPC's at start" mod I found this - "The mod also takes care of altering the joining dialogue if the original dialogue cannot fit with its new location or the knowledge of the PC at that stage of the game." At first glance it seems this may be causing the problem, when you ctrl+q Viconia into your party does she act normally from that point on?
Looking through the mod files it doesn't alter Branwen at all (which would explain why she is still OK), it alters the location of Tiax but not his dialogue, so I am pretty sure he will be ok too, but with Viconia it alters both her location and dialogue which is likely causing the issues. At this point I don't know how to fix it (or if both mods can work together peacefully), but I will think about it and try to come up with a solution. ****
@smeagolheart I'm sorry it isn't working for you, I currently don't have my BG2 discs to install BGT and try my mod on that. I don't have any idea why her dialog would change as I don't include any dialog files with my mod. The only reason I can think of is Viconia is assigned a different dialog file in the BGT level 1 NPC mod.
When I have a chance I will look into this and try to fix it, ensuring compatibility with so many others mods is proving to be quite a headache i'm afraid, but I will keep working on it and hopefully get it sorted.
If you can tell me the name of the dialog file she has in BGT I will be happy to ensure that she retains it in my mod for any future installers.
****Edit: after having a quick look through the readme file for the "BGT L1 NPC's at start" mod I found this - "The mod also takes care of altering the joining dialogue if the original dialogue cannot fit with its new location or the knowledge of the PC at that stage of the game." At first glance it seems this may be causing the problem, when you ctrl+q Viconia into your party does she act normally from that point on?
Looking through the mod files it doesn't alter Branwen at all (which would explain why she is still OK), it alters the location of Tiax but not his dialogue, so I am pretty sure he will be ok too, but with Viconia it alters both her location and dialogue which is likely causing the issues. At this point I don't know how to fix it (or if both mods can work together peacefully), but I will think about it and try to come up with a solution. ****
Not sure what to tell you. I appreciate you looking into it for sure. All I can recall is she worked fine last time I tried to get her to join but after loading the nightcloak component, it isn't working the same as before.
I haven't really adventured with her around yet. She seems to be BG2 version but I'm not sure. If she is BG1 version then of course she is gonna be pretty silent and it will be tough to tell if she's working or not.
I opened shadowkeeper but opening a saved game isn't really telling me anything
@smeagolheart I have released a new version which should only alter existing NPC files rather than replace them as it did, if you still want to give it a go then feel free to try it and let me know how it goes.
After finally getting WeiDU to work properly I tried installing the mod. Everything seemed to be working well, but when I tried to start a new character I couldn't see the names or descriptions of the kits in character creation. Instead of for example "Stalwart" and "Shadow Druid" there were either just a blank button/blank despription or texts like "Missingstring [#XXXXXXXX]" where the Xs were various numbers.
When i start the game all bonuses, advantages, disadvantages and everything seems to be working as it should, but the names and despriptions never show up.
Did I do something wrong and what could be causing this? Does anyone know how I could fix this?
@NiklasWB For some reason Weidu didn't find your dialog.tlk. Copy the file relevant to your language to the same folder where your chitin.key is, reinstall the mod, and then copy it back to its previous foldar and it should solve the problem.
@NiklasWB For some reason Weidu didn't find your dialog.tlk. Copy the file relevant to your language to the same folder where your chitin.key is, reinstall the mod, and then copy it back to its previous foldar and it should solve the problem.
Hmm, alright. But what do I do if the folder with the chitin.key already has a dialog.tlk file in it? Should I overwrite it with the one from the language (en_US) folder or should I just remove it and move it back once the mod is installed?
Thanks for the help, I'm just a bit lost when it comes to this kind of modding.
Thanks. Must have happened when I tried to get WeiDU to work by hardlinking the dialog.tlk to the directory-folder. I'll give it a second try tomorrow.
@NiklasWB I was having the same exact issue, until I read what @mlnevese said lmao. I had coppied a chitin and dialog files both to a particular folder so that I could get Shadowkeeper to work. Been looking for the past few days to get this mod to work, and finally I got it
Thanks for unknowingly helping me too @mlnevese lmao XD
@smeagolheart I have released a new version which should only alter existing NPC files rather than replace them as it did, if you still want to give it a go then feel free to try it and let me know how it goes.
I tried it and Viconia is working, I think you got it.
On balance issues...
The Stalwart's damage resistance and class features put the vanilla Barbarian to shame. And he can dual class out of the box at level 1 and get the DR it takes a barb more than 11 levels to get.
stalwart
STALWART: The Stalwart is a walking bastion, an impenetrable fortress of physical resilience, using skillful parrying, taunts, dodging and strength to absorb blows with the greatest of ease, however their defensively orientated training means they cannot use as wide a range of weapons as most other fighters, and only with relatively basic proficiency: they live to defend, not destroy. Many stalwarts find themselves stonrgly drawn to the teachings of Ilmater.
Advantages:- Gains 15% Crushing, Piercing, Slashing and Missile Damage resistance, plus an additional 2% every 4 levels Gains a +3 Bonus to HP at 1st level, and an additional 1hp each level thereafter Gains a +1 bonus to all saves
Disadvantages:- Can only use 1-Handed weapons with any skill, and can only achieve specialisation in these weapons
barbarian
Barbarian A barbarian can be an excellent warrior. While not as disciplined or as skilled as a normal fighter, the barbarian can willingly throw himself into a berserker rage, becoming a tougher and stronger opponent. The barbarian uses the fighter avatar.
Advantages:
They move at 2 points faster than the usual character. Barbarians are immune to backstab. Can Rage once per day for every 4 levels (starts at 1st level with one use). Rage gives them +4 to constitution and strength for 5 rounds. Gives a -2 armor class penalty and +2 to saves vs. magic (for 5 rounds). Rage also gives immunity to all charm, hold, fear, maze, confusion and level-drain spells. At 11th level, the barbarian gains 10% resistance to slashing, piercing, crushing and missile damage. He gains +5% to this every 4 levels thereafter. The barbarian rolls d12 for hit points instead of a fighter's d10.
Disadvantages:
A barbarian cannot wear full plate or plate mail. A barbarian cannot specialize past normal specialization.
@smeagolheart very good point I hadn't looked at it like that before, now it seems so obvious, although the dual class abuse was always a concern i wanted to see how it would pan out, the dr will be heavily nerfed in the next version (likely 2 per cent every three levels and the 15 per cent initial bonus removed completely), or if you have any ideas then please let me know.
Those with missing strings got it sorted by the look of things? If not then let me know.
Although I was more concentrated in the hivemaster and the other kits.
@Requiem : sorry to keep you waiting but IRL is a little bit complicated atm. I still have to test some stuff and write down a final version of the kits we talked about and I'll send you that
@neoesprit not a problem at all, just do what you can when you can, i'm back at work from now on so I won't have nearly as much time to update this kitpack, I will keep at it, but it will just be slower. All fo your help so far is really appreciated.
Comments
Rest assured I'm aware of the possible problems that could come with BG2:EE and with that in mind I will report everything I find to Requiem whenever it's possible
I'd like to know whether or not future updates will screw with older versions once you overwrite the outdated data.
I don't know how in depth your modding knowledge is, but below is a little example of how the install process would typically go.
Kitpack v1.0 --kitpack v1.1
1. Cleric kit #1 --1. Cleric kit #1
2. Cleric kit #2 --2. Cleric kit #2
3. Fighter kit #1 --3. Cleric kit #3
4. Fighter kit #2 --4. Fighter kit #1
5. Druid kit #1 --5. Fighter kit #2
---------------6. Druid kit #1
By adding that new kit, cleric kit #3 is going to have the same internal ID as fighter kit #1 did, so any character who had fighter kit#1 before you updated the mod will now have cleric kit #3. All of the kits below cleric kit #3 will have their kit id's increased by 1, so characters with Fighter kit #2 and druid kit#1 will also be affected.
To avoid this you can either only install a new version of the mod when starting a new game (not ideal), or much more sensible is to use shadowkeeper on your savegame to change the kit back to the correct one after installing a new version. All innate abilities etc will still be on your character after you install a new version, its just the kit that will change (if you level up you will gain the benefits of the new kit).
The aim is that once I have included all of the kits I am going to make then further updates will just be balancing and bugfixing so the kits won't change, I know it's not ideal but it is a limitation that I cannot think of a way around, if anyone who is cleverer than me has any ideas then please let me know.
Big reply lol but I hope that answers your question.
Basically, you can picture the Inner Elemental Plane of Air as an endless, air-filled void without ground. It has everything from gentle breezes, to hurricane-strength gales and dangerous air maelstroms. It's pretty similar to the Paraelemental Plane of Smoke in that regard, albeit less hot and dirty. However, for actual icy winds and everything else cold related, you'd have to travel to the Inner Paraelemental Plane of Ice.
There are also some cold water regions in the Inner Elemental Plane of Water, which may be another alternative. Of course, the water there has no surface and its oceans no ground, meaning Frostwhielders would need to be able to breath underwater or die within a couple of minutes.
@Kamigoroshi thx for the input on the plans its been a long time since I walked those. I'm sure Requiem will work something out (maybe you can send him ideas for the kit description)
I was reading through the new kits, and couldnt get past the Shadowstalker.
He can go invisible more or less at will... and no penalties to backstab?
At lvl 4 he can backstab at triple damage, and then go invisible straight away.
I think this is too powerful... you can more or less solo the game and just backstab (1-hit-kill) people with extreme ease.
I can see why you might think shadowstalker is overpowered, however I have personally not found it to be, if you play a thief/illusionist you have all of the benefits you mentioned there plus extra damage from spells. Backstab and invisibility (through potion, item or spell) has always been powerful but I can understand your concern
Invisibility only gives you one attack before you become visible, and if you are fighting more than one enemy you will die pretty quickly due to low health and increased damage taken. Non detection only protects you from lower level divination spells as far as I have found (dont know if this is a bug or not)
Although of course being the author I would argue it is balanced- if anyone finds that any kit is seriously overpowered after a long term playthrough I am happy to tone it down or adjust it. I will play a new game with a solo shadowstalker with 18 strength and see how I do if I feel it is unbalanced then I will tone it down.
Kudos on that.
As for your clarifications;
- As a Thief/Illusionist you get half the XP... and if you dont remove the cap you cant get to the really yummy lvls in BG. The Shadowstalker lvls up normally...
- You get invisibility once per 2 lvls, so you can back-stab and then quickly go invisible again, its more or less 1 free kill every 2 lvls. For harder fights you can save potions of invisibility...
And in a party with a supporting mage its not really hard to get your thief invisible...
You have also tempt me to try and solo the game with as a shadowstalker, as soon as i finnish my current solo with (the usual?) F/M/T.
Also you can't possibly expect all kits will be fully balanced by taking into account that someone could play a rogue with 18 strength or more. Strength in BG as always been a considerably overpowered stat and there's nothing we can do about that.
But I'll look into that when I have some time thx for the input
circumstances I am running your mod BGT (not BGEE) with the BG1 NPCs at Beginning mod. Viconia worked fine before I installed this component (ie earlier version of the mod). Now she has her BG2 dialogue "I recognize you!" and then won't say anything. I force-joined her to my party and she was the level 2 version
When I have a chance I will look into this and try to fix it, ensuring compatibility with so many others mods is proving to be quite a headache i'm afraid, but I will keep working on it and hopefully get it sorted.
If you can tell me the name of the dialog file she has in BGT I will be happy to ensure that she retains it in my mod for any future installers.
****Edit: after having a quick look through the readme file for the "BGT L1 NPC's at start" mod I found this - "The mod also takes care of altering the joining dialogue if the original dialogue cannot fit with its new location or the knowledge of the PC at that stage of the game." At first glance it seems this may be causing the problem, when you ctrl+q Viconia into your party does she act normally from that point on?
Looking through the mod files it doesn't alter Branwen at all (which would explain why she is still OK), it alters the location of Tiax but not his dialogue, so I am pretty sure he will be ok too, but with Viconia it alters both her location and dialogue which is likely causing the issues. At this point I don't know how to fix it (or if both mods can work together peacefully), but I will think about it and try to come up with a solution. ****
I haven't really adventured with her around yet. She seems to be BG2 version but I'm not sure. If she is BG1 version then of course she is gonna be pretty silent and it will be tough to tell if she's working or not.
I opened shadowkeeper but opening a saved game isn't really telling me anything
@smeagolheart I have released a new version which should only alter existing NPC files rather than replace them as it did, if you still want to give it a go then feel free to try it and let me know how it goes.
After finally getting WeiDU to work properly I tried installing the mod. Everything seemed to be working well, but when I tried to start a new character I couldn't see the names or descriptions of the kits in character creation. Instead of for example "Stalwart" and "Shadow Druid" there were either just a blank button/blank despription or texts like "Missingstring [#XXXXXXXX]" where the Xs were various numbers.
When i start the game all bonuses, advantages, disadvantages and everything seems to be working as it should, but the names and despriptions never show up.
Did I do something wrong and what could be causing this? Does anyone know how I could fix this?
Thanks for the help, I'm just a bit lost when it comes to this kind of modding.
Thanks for unknowingly helping me too @mlnevese lmao XD
On balance issues...
The Stalwart's damage resistance and class features put the vanilla Barbarian to shame. And he can dual class out of the box at level 1 and get the DR it takes a barb more than 11 levels to get.
stalwart
STALWART: The Stalwart is a walking bastion, an impenetrable fortress of physical resilience, using skillful parrying, taunts, dodging and strength to absorb blows with the greatest of ease, however their defensively orientated training means they cannot use as wide a range of weapons as most other fighters, and only with relatively basic proficiency: they live to defend, not destroy. Many stalwarts find themselves stonrgly drawn to the teachings of Ilmater.
Advantages:- Gains 15% Crushing, Piercing, Slashing and Missile Damage resistance, plus an additional 2% every 4 levels
Gains a +3 Bonus to HP at 1st level, and an additional 1hp each level thereafter
Gains a +1 bonus to all saves
Disadvantages:- Can only use 1-Handed weapons with any skill, and can only achieve specialisation in these weapons
barbarian
Barbarian
A barbarian can be an excellent warrior. While not as disciplined or as skilled as a normal fighter, the barbarian can willingly throw himself into a berserker rage, becoming a tougher and stronger opponent. The barbarian uses the fighter avatar.
Advantages:
They move at 2 points faster than the usual character.
Barbarians are immune to backstab.
Can Rage once per day for every 4 levels (starts at 1st level with one use). Rage gives them +4 to constitution and strength for 5 rounds. Gives a -2 armor class penalty and +2 to saves vs. magic (for 5 rounds). Rage also gives immunity to all charm, hold, fear, maze, confusion and level-drain spells.
At 11th level, the barbarian gains 10% resistance to slashing, piercing, crushing and missile damage. He gains +5% to this every 4 levels thereafter.
The barbarian rolls d12 for hit points instead of a fighter's d10.
Disadvantages:
A barbarian cannot wear full plate or plate mail.
A barbarian cannot specialize past normal specialization.
Those with missing strings got it sorted by the look of things? If not then let me know.
Although I was more concentrated in the hivemaster and the other kits.
@Requiem : sorry to keep you waiting but IRL is a little bit complicated atm. I still have to test some stuff and write down a final version of the kits we talked about and I'll send you that