@zenblack Everyone's welcome to express their opinions here, and we're very much aware of the problems with the game. I would only caution you to respect the members of the forum, and even if you don't like the product we've produced, try to remember that the developers are people too.
If you're truly dissatisfied with the game, please do email me at support@beamdog.com. I'll be happy to work with you toward a solution, or refund your purchase if it comes to that.
I am respecting them but that doesn't mean I have to play patty cake with kid gloves. It is precisely that developers are people that I assume they can handle valid criticism of their product even if they don't like it. This wasn't intended to be a discussion about BG2EE or anything other than this game, but the excuses from staff at Overhaul made it that. I am dissatisfied, yet I came back here once a month looking for a patch. It should be obvious I don't want to give up on BGEE, but I'm tired of excuses and vague promises. This thread alone, after the 3rd month is where I learned that Trent has a twitter feed where I have been lead to believe the real updates to BGEE are announced, why couldn't I have known about that 2 months ago rather than looking on the games forums in the news section for information that obviously doesn't get filtered here?
I don't see a problem in @zenblack behavior, he criticized only, what is his right as a customer. It's an unpleased customer disappointed and if a staff member warn him for this and offer refunds with the subliminar message of "don't like, take your money back and get out", that will reflect only a lack of confidence in the work done.
Let deeds speak instead, and erase his disappointment with an nice BG2 EE instead.
By myself i see BG EE failing in many ways, and so i'm disappointed too with many things, @zenblack choice of words may not be the better but there's a truth behind them.
The core problem in the Beamdog/Client relation, is related to information. No, i'm not meaning that Beamdog does not update the customers or let them in the dark after they payment, what i meant is something that have been a bit obvious from a very long time and i failed to see.
Most improvments on the game can't be done either by copyright restrictions or lack of resources, even things labeled as bugs in the previous game are stated to be untouchable here, Beamdog has an agenda to publish BG2 EE as have been labeled before... someone inputed an duty for the boss?... Dorn's avatar is being used in the background of ATARI, something produced and clearly copyrighted by Beamdog.
So the main question is, the boss is really the boss? If not, that's the main fault of Beamdog.
From everything i saw, Beamdog behave more as an employee than employer, maybe we could call this "partial assignment of rights" of an franchise, but clearly Beamdog isn't the puppet master behind this project, not for major decision actions at least.
Whomever has the full copyrights of baldur's gate surelly can authorize any change, be it old content or not, so instead of self proclaim as the owner of the project, the "boss" should let people know that he's only the head of the project not of the capital copyrights, therefore being limited in his decisions. Even mostly important, an channel between the customers here and the "true boss" should be avaliable.
If my statement is wrong, what i strongly believe that's not, i apologise for presuming so much, but then, saying that old content changes can't be done will start to ressemble a bit less veritable.
Sorry for the off-topic @Dee, and no, this isn't an attack against the staff from me, cos if everything i said is true, the staff can't do much to change whomever owns the capital copyright wants, but then i raise an important request here that i dare to believe many others will backup, i want a direct channel with the true boss of the project, aka ATARI, the one that owns the original copyright and have the power to do the changes, i want someone from that staff to deal with their indirect customers here (or there), mostly in reason of ATARI web site be lacking an decent custom support, the only way to contact them is to submit help requests for game bugs.
Your statement is wrong. First, Atari probably acquired permission to use Dorn's image(I can't imagine they would do something stupid like use it without permission), indeed such permission is probably included in the publisher's contract for the original game, though I'm guessing there. This is irrelevant, in any case.
Your main question is not very clear. It seems as if you're insinuating that Beamdog is not really in control over development of BGEE and BG2EE. They have limitations as part of their contract, but other than that, they have complete control. I don't see anything wrong with this. And no, I don't think any of us will see the actual contract. Those are kept private for obvious reasons. You complain of bugs that remain unfixed because they are 'untouchable' but you name no examples. In short your complaint, while no doubt heartfelt, is difficult to take seriously as it is.
The question of who has the full copyrights to Baldur's Gate is... complicated. I remember Trent Ostner talking a while back about what it took to make it even possible to do BGEE. Bioware(now owned by Electronic Arts) developed the game. TSR(now WIzards of The Coast) owns the Forgotten Realms setting, and the game was published by Atari. It took, basically a 4 way discussion of terms to even make a deal possible, and it took a LONG time to do. So to ask 'who has the authorization to make any changes,' well, they all do. And any one of them can veto any changes.
How do I wrap this up? Concluding sentences are my bane.
"Your statement is wrong. First, Atari probally..."
Being not from the staff so therefore this no official answer, i can hardly believe that you give any of those answers with knowledge of the matter, they're just your presumptions.
Just to state now, only my 3° paragraphs have been about the guy that complained, i just voted for his right to complain. Everything else was my thoughts of why we have so many limitations on the copyright, the diference is that i'm not faking my thoughts as plain truths, i'm exposing them for debate.
By the way, review to whom you direct the posts dude, cos i didn't spoke of any unsolved bugs lately, i believe this part is directed to @zenblack, am i right?
I'm aware of the cruzade Beamdog faced to get this enhanced edition, but as i said into an previous post in another thread, the project of enhanced edition now of Baldur's Gate will probally prevent, if not make impossible, another enhancement in the future, if the odds weren't good enough to start the project, the delay to start it wouldn't be an issue, would be wise in fact, cos the Team can barely touch on the old game content now and god knows that A LOT of things there where in need of change.
So i stand firmly in my last request, an direct contact with ATARI (and then, if i'm wrong and isn't ATARI who can authorize this, who is then, cos it's evident that SOMEONE has the proper power to authorize this) to research and open votes for changes in the original content.
Until today, the only company with thougths of respect for a game history is Beamdog (probally cos they're made of developers of games), other companies as ATARI, Ubisoft, EA Games (beteshda a little less than the others i think) only care about profit.
Well then, release the changes as DLCs (just make worth it), we have the money, someone who want that money has the power to authorize these changes, 2 parts that want something of the other, everyone will benefit from this.
I don't know about anybody else but my old BG game discs refuse to work for me on any modern machine - the fact that I can now play it across numerous different platforms is incredible for me. I had thought that this game was lost to me forever.
My original BG disks still worked just fine the last time I checked (couple of years ago), but I went ahead and repurchased both BG and BG2 on GoG (Good Old Games), just in case. The GoG versions work great on modern machines, so if you want to play the plain vanilla BG+BG2, GoG is the way to go.
Yes, I purchased BGEE also and am glad to hear the legal troubles have been resolved and work is continuing.
So, any idea when update 9 comes out? I'd kinda like a fix to the shadow dancer trap setting and Firebead's scroll of Identifcation. 'Cus you know, That is a really important scroll to him! It has alot of sentimental value to him and I feel sorry that he doesn't get to have it. T_T
Ok, seriously, I would like a couple of the class bugs to get sorted out, but meh. news on update 9 plix? :>
End of September would be my guess at the moment. It's going through a beta test first (which hasn't started, as far as I know). No official date has been released yet, but there have been numerous posts on the forums here from the devs explaining what the plan is.
Start of beta was planned for mid september at one point, but a few days ago Dee said it could be a little longer. So beta should be indeed before the end of the month. Then count one month or so for the beta phase. If BG2EE really launches by mid November, the beta might be ending just before it. It's like the beta patch is actually a beta for BG2EE
Rehashing a (possibly slightly tongue-in-cheek) prior argument of mine, and noting that I pre-ordered BG:EE in mid-November 2012:
When BG:EE was 'released' in late November last year, my personal view on the matter was that it would have been more reasonable to label it a paid Open Beta. Because now, almost a year later, the latest patch, which (ironically enough) is slated to officially go into Open Beta, has not yet landed.
To this pair of eyes, this essentially makes BG:EE one big paid Open Beta for BGII:EE.
Oh, so BGII:EE will be 'released' on November 15th you say? Oh sure, and pigs can fly. Please excuse me if I don't appear to take your release date claims at face value. Instead, why don't you hit me up sometime in 2014 when the real release has landed -- if it works as advertised, I'll even make a solemn promise to pay full price for two copies of BGII:EE and one extra copy of BG:EE in the Beamdog store and be grateful to boot.
What's that? You'd really like me to pre-order it now and gain access to the paid Open Beta launching on November 15th? Ok sure, I want to support you lot after all. But could you at least please label it as a paid Open Beta proper until it is actually ready for release, mod support and all?
And just so you don't peg me as yet another disgruntled customer:
Good on you Team Overhaul Ladies and Gents for taking up the challenge and bringing the genius of BG and BGII to a new generation of gamers (and hardware).
So... When is the upcoming patch released? I'm sick of waiting for it indeed. I've been waiting for when the every significant bugs caused by BG:EE itself get solved, and the time has been a year without complete settlement. This is just... annoying and unbelievable. I'm really disappointed with BG:EE.
DON'T mention that there are several unofficial hot fixes already. All the such kind of hot fixes seems mod, and I'd rather argue that original Baldur's Gate series are much better than BG:EE, obviously, if you say that the mod is included in the part of BG:EE; MUCH MORE MODS ALREADY EXIST FOR ORIGINAL BG SERIES.
We're doing the best we can. There's a lot in this patch, and we want to make sure it's all polished and working before we release it for public consumption.
1. This is indeed getting a bit silly 2. BUT the good news is they have now a hard deadline which is BG2EE launch on november. Oviously they will have to release the patch before that, and that means the beta should come... soon 3. On the other hand, maybe they will push back BG2EE release... yeah they could do that i guess. And then we'll be back to start, with another year or whatever time of waiting...
1. This is indeed getting a bit silly 2. BUT the good news is they have now a hard deadline which is BG2EE launch on november. Oviously they will have to release the patch before that, and that means the beta should come... soon 3. On the other hand, maybe they will push back BG2EE release... yeah they could do that i guess. And then we'll be back to start, with another year or whatever time of waiting...
2. I do hope that the patch will come soon and it the right option for this phase of the updating 3. let be more positive then that and hope that they won't push back the release
I think they are trying to focus their limited resources in the release of BG2:EE and they have only a small amount of time dedicated for patching BG:EE. While from a marketing point of view this makes sense, in the end they will end up annoying a lot of people because BG2:EE will have inherently a lot of bugs at the launch time, and BG:EE will still have bugs one year after the launch.
@gunman - @Dee repeatedly explained that there are two teams, one dealing with content (which is indeed focused on BG2EE) and the other caring about the engine (which on the other hand is working towards patch release first and foremost).
somebody call the wahhhh-mbulance, these people cry too much ......... and gunman, just fyi, not saying your a "cryer" they have different "TEAMS" for each game. a bgII development team. and the team working on patches and bugfixes for bg1. just sayin holmes. their "limited resources" are quickly getting the funding they need. which is why i wont complain about the fricken price of BGII:EE. i dont care if it was 50 or 60 dollars, id still pay to fund the *POSSIBILITY* of a BG3. fo'sho yo.
1. This is indeed getting a bit silly 2. BUT the good news is they have now a hard deadline which is BG2EE launch on november. Oviously they will have to release the patch before that, and that means the beta should come... soon 3. On the other hand, maybe they will push back BG2EE release... yeah they could do that i guess. And then we'll be back to start, with another year or whatever time of waiting...
Very true. They've implied that this is also kinda beta for BG2EE which makes sense since it will also use the new renderer. If they want people to have some time to play the open beta, and also reserve time for themselfs to actually fix issues that may be found, they pretty much have to release the open beta within the next four or so weeks. After all at this point, middle of November is only two months away.
After some experience you will realize that sometimes in companies, one thing is happening internally and other thing is communicated to clients.
@Paulg, I think you are overreacting and maybe too passionate about this. People are just expressing opinions, nobody seems to be crying or in need of an ambulance. And you are free to sell your house and give all your money to the development team, I won't comment on that, you can do everything you want with your money.
Comments
Your main question is not very clear. It seems as if you're insinuating that Beamdog is not really in control over development of BGEE and BG2EE. They have limitations as part of their contract, but other than that, they have complete control. I don't see anything wrong with this. And no, I don't think any of us will see the actual contract. Those are kept private for obvious reasons. You complain of bugs that remain unfixed because they are 'untouchable' but you name no examples. In short your complaint, while no doubt heartfelt, is difficult to take seriously as it is.
The question of who has the full copyrights to Baldur's Gate is... complicated. I remember Trent Ostner talking a while back about what it took to make it even possible to do BGEE. Bioware(now owned by Electronic Arts) developed the game. TSR(now WIzards of The Coast) owns the Forgotten Realms setting, and the game was published by Atari. It took, basically a 4 way discussion of terms to even make a deal possible, and it took a LONG time to do. So to ask 'who has the authorization to make any changes,' well, they all do. And any one of them can veto any changes.
How do I wrap this up? Concluding sentences are my bane.
Spoon!
"Your statement is wrong. First, Atari probally..."
Being not from the staff so therefore this no official answer, i can hardly believe that you give any of those answers with knowledge of the matter, they're just your presumptions.
Just to state now, only my 3° paragraphs have been about the guy that complained, i just voted for his right to complain. Everything else was my thoughts of why we have so many limitations on the copyright, the diference is that i'm not faking my thoughts as plain truths, i'm exposing them for debate.
By the way, review to whom you direct the posts dude, cos i didn't spoke of any unsolved bugs lately, i believe this part is directed to @zenblack, am i right?
I'm aware of the cruzade Beamdog faced to get this enhanced edition, but as i said into an previous post in another thread, the project of enhanced edition now of Baldur's Gate will probally prevent, if not make impossible, another enhancement in the future, if the odds weren't good enough to start the project, the delay to start it wouldn't be an issue, would be wise in fact, cos the Team can barely touch on the old game content now and god knows that A LOT of things there where in need of change.
So i stand firmly in my last request, an direct contact with ATARI (and then, if i'm wrong and isn't ATARI who can authorize this, who is then, cos it's evident that SOMEONE has the proper power to authorize this) to research and open votes for changes in the original content.
Until today, the only company with thougths of respect for a game history is Beamdog (probally cos they're made of developers of games), other companies as ATARI, Ubisoft, EA Games (beteshda a little less than the others i think) only care about profit.
Well then, release the changes as DLCs (just make worth it), we have the money, someone who want that money has the power to authorize these changes, 2 parts that want something of the other, everyone will benefit from this.
Yes, I purchased BGEE also and am glad to hear the legal troubles have been resolved and work is continuing.
Ok, seriously, I would like a couple of the class bugs to get sorted out, but meh. news on update 9 plix? :>
Then count one month or so for the beta phase.
If BG2EE really launches by mid November, the beta might be ending just before it. It's like the beta patch is actually a beta for BG2EE
But if you can't wait for the patch there are some hot fixes for the shadow dancer: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/17862/tresset-s-shadowdancer-bugfixes-important-update
When BG:EE was 'released' in late November last year, my personal view on the matter was that it would have been more reasonable to label it a paid Open Beta. Because now, almost a year later, the latest patch, which (ironically enough) is slated to officially go into Open Beta, has not yet landed.
To this pair of eyes, this essentially makes BG:EE one big paid Open Beta for BGII:EE.
Oh, so BGII:EE will be 'released' on November 15th you say? Oh sure, and pigs can fly. Please excuse me if I don't appear to take your release date claims at face value. Instead, why don't you hit me up sometime in 2014 when the real release has landed -- if it works as advertised, I'll even make a solemn promise to pay full price for two copies of BGII:EE and one extra copy of BG:EE in the Beamdog store and be grateful to boot.
What's that? You'd really like me to pre-order it now and gain access to the paid Open Beta launching on November 15th? Ok sure, I want to support you lot after all. But could you at least please label it as a paid Open Beta proper until it is actually ready for release, mod support and all?
And just so you don't peg me as yet another disgruntled customer:
Good on you Team Overhaul Ladies and Gents for taking up the challenge and bringing the genius of BG and BGII to a new generation of gamers (and hardware).
Here's to pet hamsters and fancy pants!
DON'T mention that there are several unofficial hot fixes already. All the such kind of hot fixes seems mod, and I'd rather argue that original Baldur's Gate series are much better than BG:EE, obviously, if you say that the mod is included in the part of BG:EE; MUCH MORE MODS ALREADY EXIST FOR ORIGINAL BG SERIES.
2. BUT the good news is they have now a hard deadline which is BG2EE launch on november. Oviously they will have to release the patch before that, and that means the beta should come... soon
3. On the other hand, maybe they will push back BG2EE release... yeah they could do that i guess. And then we'll be back to start, with another year or whatever time of waiting...
3. let be more positive then that and hope that they won't push back the release
@Paulg, I think you are overreacting and maybe too passionate about this. People are just expressing opinions, nobody seems to be crying or in need of an ambulance. And you are free to sell your house and give all your money to the development team, I won't comment on that, you can do everything you want with your money.